K3 and W2IHY EQ Plus!

[E72X]

Hi all!
Anyone using a W2IHY EQ Plus with the K3?
If so what are your experiences and what microphone are you using

73,

e72x - Gordan



     
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[AD4C2009]

Hi Gordan,I don't see any need to use the EQ Plus with the K3 because this radio has a very good 8 bands EQ to tailor your voice with any mic and also an excellent noise gate and compressor,I think you should save the problem that you might have having another outboard device picking up possible RFI and giving you excessive audio and maybe even distorsion.
Just one heatlhy advice for you.now do as you wish.
 
AD4C
 


"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"

--- On Mon, 1/25/10, Gordan Hribar <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Gordan Hribar <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 and W2IHY EQ Plus!
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 8:37 AM


Hi all!
Anyone using a W2IHY EQ Plus with the K3?
If so what are your experiences and what microphone are you using

73,

e72x - Gordan



     
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[W7GJ, Lance]

Hello Goran,

I use the W2IHY Dual Band Noise Gate with my K3 and am very happy with it.  If you
only want to adjust the audio spectrum you can always use the built-in TX EQ in
the K3.  However, I have never bothered to adjust the equalizer inside the K3.  My
primary goal was to eliminate the high level of background noise from my VHF
amplifiers when I operate SSB mode.

Before I had my K3, I used a Heil HC5 element with the W2IHY, but now I use the
Heil Proset K2 headset with my W2IHY and K3.  My mic setting on the K3 is for the
Rear Panel (where I have the W2IHY plugged in) with no bias.  This K3 setting is
also the same setting I must use if use the HC5 alone (however, I must change the
setting to add bias if I use the Proset K2 directly).  I set the K3 option for the
TX GATE to OFF.

Back in 2008, I was excited to learn that Elecraft was incorporating an internal
noise gate into the K3, since I had hoped it would permit me to get rid of the
external W2IHY unit.  However, when I tried to use the internal TX GATE built into
the K3, I would always get reports of distorted audio.  Since I went back to the
old reliable W2IHY Dual Band Noise Gate (over a year ago), I have only received
excellent audio reports.

I have not heard any comments from Elecraft regarding plans to develop a more
effective internal noise gate.  Therefore, if your interest is in using a noise
gate to produce quiet TX audio, I highly recommend the W2IHY unit.  GL and VY 73,
Lance




On 1/25/2010 8:37 AM, Gordan Hribar wrote:
> Hi all!
> Anyone using a W2IHY EQ Plus with the K3?
> If so what are your experiences and what microphone are you using
>
> 73,
>
> e72x - Gordan
>
--
Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT  59834  USA
QTH: DN27UB
TEL: [phone]   URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
LIVE MESSENGER CHAT: [hidden email]
2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815

Interested in 6m EME?  Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME email!
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[Jim Brown-10]

On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:40:17 +0000, Lance Collister wrote:

>My primary goal was to eliminate the high level of background
>noise from my VHF amplifiers when I operate SSB mode.

Have you tried turning down the mic gain and working it close?  
Talking louder?  Problems like this can be easily solved by
inverse square law -- that is, loudness drops by 6dB each time
you double the distance from the source, so bringing the mic MUCH
closer to your mouth than to the noise source improves the signal
to noise ratio a lot.

You can also improve the signal to noise ratio by using a
directional mic, like the one built into the Yamaha CM500
headset. Before I found the CM500, I used an EV RE11 mic.

You can also reduce background noise by placing sound absorbing
materials on walls and other surfaces in the general vicinity of
the noise source. The fans on my Titan amps are a bit noisy, so I
let them sit on a 2-inch thick piece of sound absorbing foam.
That kills vibration-coupling of the noise to the operating
bench.

I work the mic at 1-2 inches, using nothing more than the EQ
built into the K3, and critical listeners tell me there's no
background noise.

73,

Jim K9YC




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[Don Nesbitt-2]

Hello Lance.  In addition to excellent built-in EQ, the K3 TX audio chain has a built-in noise gate that I find to be excellent at reducing or eliminating background noise on SSB.  You might want to give it a go.  '73 es gud dxing -- Don N4HH

<SNIP>

> On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:40:17 +0000,
> Lance Collister wrote:
>
> >My primary goal was to eliminate the high level of
> background
> >noise from my VHF amplifiers when I operate SSB mode.
>
 <SNIP>


     
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[Terry Schieler]

Hi Gordan,

I originally used my K3 with a Heil Goldline and the W2IHY EQ box.  I
received great reports.  But I needed some space on the desktop, so I pulled
the W2IHY box, added the Heil PR781 mic and did virtually the same EQ tweak
within the K3' menu.  Same results, great audio reports, less clutter.  The
W2IHY is a great product and Julius is wonderful with his support.  I'll add
the IHY box to my backup rig and continue to benefit from it.

73,

Terry, W0FM

-----Original Message-----
From: Gordan Hribar [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:38 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 and W2IHY EQ Plus!

Hi all!
Anyone using a W2IHY EQ Plus with the K3?
If so what are your experiences and what microphone are you using

73,

e72x - Gordan



     


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[W7GJ, Lance]

Thanks for the suggestions about mic presence Jim.  Yes, the mic on my headset is
set so it is directly in front of my lips - as close as it can be without
touching.  The problem I have here is that the amplifiers are directly behind me,
so the mic is also aiming that direction when I am talking into it.  However, the
W2IHY Noise Gate is extremely effective, works well, results in excellent audio
reports and I am very pleased with the current setup.  As far as I am concerned, I
do not currently have any problems with my current setup.

73, Lance

On 1/25/2010 5:23 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:40:17 +0000, Lance Collister wrote:
>
>> My primary goal was to eliminate the high level of background
>> noise from my VHF amplifiers when I operate SSB mode.
>
> Have you tried turning down the mic gain and working it close?
> Talking louder?  Problems like this can be easily solved by
> inverse square law -- that is, loudness drops by 6dB each time
> you double the distance from the source, so bringing the mic MUCH
> closer to your mouth than to the noise source improves the signal
> to noise ratio a lot.
>
> You can also improve the signal to noise ratio by using a
> directional mic, like the one built into the Yamaha CM500
> headset. Before I found the CM500, I used an EV RE11 mic.
>
> You can also reduce background noise by placing sound absorbing
> materials on walls and other surfaces in the general vicinity of
> the noise source. The fans on my Titan amps are a bit noisy, so I
> let them sit on a 2-inch thick piece of sound absorbing foam.
> That kills vibration-coupling of the noise to the operating
> bench.
>
> I work the mic at 1-2 inches, using nothing more than the EQ
> built into the K3, and critical listeners tell me there's no
> background noise.
>
> 73,
>
> Jim K9YC
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

--
Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT  59834  USA
QTH: DN27UB
TEL: [phone]   URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
LIVE MESSENGER CHAT: [hidden email]
2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815

Interested in 6m EME?  Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME email!
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[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

I received the same reports as Lance (distorted or "gravelly" transmit
audio) from local hams listening to my SSB signal when using the K3 noise
gate feature, as compared with having it turned off. I simply opted not to
use it any more, since I wasn't getting complaints about too much background
noise anyway.

What is interesting to me is that this noise gate audio problem even exists,
given Elecraft's usually careful engineering practices. Since I know Lance
is a 6-meter guy -- as I am -- I'm now wondering if the distortion
experienced when using the noise gate maybe only exists on 6 meters.

To be fair, I haven't tried using the noise gate in the most current release
of firmware, so there's a possibility that this problem got fixed somewhere
along the way. But I wanted to verify Lance's experience with it, FWIW.

Bill W5WVO

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Lance Collister" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 8:40 AM
To: "Gordan Hribar" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and W2IHY EQ Plus!

> Hello Goran,
>
> I use the W2IHY Dual Band Noise Gate with my K3 and am very happy with it.
> If you
> only want to adjust the audio spectrum you can always use the built-in TX
> EQ in
> the K3.  However, I have never bothered to adjust the equalizer inside the
> K3.  My
> primary goal was to eliminate the high level of background noise from my
> VHF
> amplifiers when I operate SSB mode.
>
> Before I had my K3, I used a Heil HC5 element with the W2IHY, but now I
> use the
> Heil Proset K2 headset with my W2IHY and K3.  My mic setting on the K3 is
> for the
> Rear Panel (where I have the W2IHY plugged in) with no bias.  This K3
> setting is
> also the same setting I must use if use the HC5 alone (however, I must
> change the
> setting to add bias if I use the Proset K2 directly).  I set the K3 option
> for the
> TX GATE to OFF.
>
> Back in 2008, I was excited to learn that Elecraft was incorporating an
> internal
> noise gate into the K3, since I had hoped it would permit me to get rid of
> the
> external W2IHY unit.  However, when I tried to use the internal TX GATE
> built into
> the K3, I would always get reports of distorted audio.  Since I went back
> to the
> old reliable W2IHY Dual Band Noise Gate (over a year ago), I have only
> received
> excellent audio reports.
>
> I have not heard any comments from Elecraft regarding plans to develop a
> more
> effective internal noise gate.  Therefore, if your interest is in using a
> noise
> gate to produce quiet TX audio, I highly recommend the W2IHY unit.  GL and
> VY 73,
> Lance
>
>
>
>
> On 1/25/2010 8:37 AM, Gordan Hribar wrote:
>> Hi all!
>> Anyone using a W2IHY EQ Plus with the K3?
>> If so what are your experiences and what microphone are you using
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> e72x - Gordan
>>
> --
> Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8,
> E51SIX)
> P.O. Box 73
> Frenchtown, MT  59834  USA
> QTH: DN27UB
> TEL: [phone]   URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
> LIVE MESSENGER CHAT: [hidden email]
> 2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815
>
> Interested in 6m EME?  Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME
> email!
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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[KK7P]

>> My primary goal was to eliminate the high level of background
>> noise from my VHF amplifiers when I operate SSB mode.
>>    

There are two main approaches to helping mitigate shack noise from Tx
audio: Noise Gate and Downward Expansion.

A Noise Gate, such as is used in the K3, acts much like an FM squelch
does on receive.  It looks at Tx audio amplitude and if a signal exceeds
that amplitude, it opens the audio path for a certain period of time.  
Whenever an audio peak exceeds the threshold, the timer is
re-triggered.  Thus, continuous speech will keep the gate open.  The
timer is necessary to allow softer parts of speech to pass without
distortion.

Thus, the Noise Gate is not a clipper or "waveform modifier" and
introduces no crossover or other distortion when it is activated.  In
this case, the speech overrides the noise source during speech, and the
timer silences the audio path when there is no speech.  However, if the
threshold is too high, then "leading edge" distortion may result.

A Downward Expander changes the gain (slope, or transfer function) of
the input amplifier for signals below the threshold.  This can result in
crossover and other distortion for the low-level components of speech.  
On the other hand, it may also result in reduced amplitude of the noise
source itself even when speech is present due to the slope of the
downward expansion.  Gating in the form of clipping occurs when the
downward expansion slope results in zero gain.

The most common misadjustment of the Noise Gate is to set the threshold
too close to the noise source's level. This can result in the noise
source triggering the audio, resulting in a scratchy or staccato
effect.  In most cases, *increasing* the threshold beyond that point
will result in the desired "squelching" of the noise source, while still
allowing speech to pass.

73,

Lyle KK7P



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[Bill K9YEQ]

Lyle, given all that, would it be your recommendation to reduce the gain in
unwanted bands using the equalizer, or would it be better to increase the
gain of the wanted bands, or both to be centered on flat response?


73,

Bill
K9YEQ
K2 & KX1 (Field tester); K3; W2; mini mods


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lyle Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 11:02 AM
To: Elecraft List
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and W2IHY EQ Plus!


>> My primary goal was to eliminate the high level of background
>> noise from my VHF amplifiers when I operate SSB mode.
>>    

There are two main approaches to helping mitigate shack noise from Tx
audio: Noise Gate and Downward Expansion.

A Noise Gate, such as is used in the K3, acts much like an FM squelch
does on receive.  It looks at Tx audio amplitude and if a signal exceeds
that amplitude, it opens the audio path for a certain period of time.  
Whenever an audio peak exceeds the threshold, the timer is
re-triggered.  Thus, continuous speech will keep the gate open.  The
timer is necessary to allow softer parts of speech to pass without
distortion.

Thus, the Noise Gate is not a clipper or "waveform modifier" and
introduces no crossover or other distortion when it is activated.  In
this case, the speech overrides the noise source during speech, and the
timer silences the audio path when there is no speech.  However, if the
threshold is too high, then "leading edge" distortion may result.

A Downward Expander changes the gain (slope, or transfer function) of
the input amplifier for signals below the threshold.  This can result in
crossover and other distortion for the low-level components of speech.  
On the other hand, it may also result in reduced amplitude of the noise
source itself even when speech is present due to the slope of the
downward expansion.  Gating in the form of clipping occurs when the
downward expansion slope results in zero gain.

The most common misadjustment of the Noise Gate is to set the threshold
too close to the noise source's level. This can result in the noise
source triggering the audio, resulting in a scratchy or staccato
effect.  In most cases, *increasing* the threshold beyond that point
will result in the desired "squelching" of the noise source, while still
allowing speech to pass.

73,

Lyle KK7P



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[KK7P]

> Lyle, given all that, would it be your recommendation to reduce the gain in
> unwanted bands using the equalizer, or would it be better to increase the
> gain of the wanted bands, or both to be centered on flat response?

In general, I suggest using "cuts" rather than "boosts" to shape the
passband, unless the range of the cuts are insufficient to achieve the
shaping you desire.  I apply this approach to Rx as well as Tx EQ.

73,

Lyle KK7P
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[pd0psb]

Still, the adjustment is a bit tricky.
A higher threshhold also has loss of softer speech as a side effect.
When room-noise and speech approach the same level the gate has a rough time, a common situation in contests/fielddays with people and fan-cooled equipment packed closely together :-)

Somehow I still feel a small modification to the open/close slopes could help the gate.
A slightly less steep slope at the opening of the gate might prevent over-sensitivity to small spikes or "self"-modulation by room noise/ LF noises.
A gentler slope at closing of the gate will prevent the switching effect you hear. A smooth slope (soft tail-out) would be much less noticable.

As it is programmed now I can imagine people think they hear cross-over distortion, a bit similar to SSB with class C amplification.

73'
Paul
PD0PSB





Thus, the Noise Gate is not a clipper or "waveform modifier" and
introduces no crossover or other distortion when it is activated.  In
this case, the speech overrides the noise source during speech, and the
timer silences the audio path when there is no speech.  However, if the
threshold is too high, then "leading edge" distortion may result.

[Jim Brown-10]

On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 10:59:23 -0800, Lyle Johnson wrote:

>In general, I suggest using "cuts" rather than "boosts" to shape the
>passband, unless the range of the cuts are insufficient to achieve the
>shaping you desire.  I apply this approach to Rx as well as Tx EQ.

Yes. In general, it is good audio practice to get rid of as much as
possible of the frequency spectrum that is not part of what you're
trying to use. In this case, that means maximum cut of at least the two
lowest octave bands. Depending on the response of the microphone, it's
possible that the third and even the fourth bands should be cut.

The best way to home in on settings is to have a good listener tune you
in on a receiver set for wide RX bandwidth (at least 2.7kHz), make those
cuts, and tell you when you have gone too far. What settings are
"right," particularly in the higher octave bands, should be made in this
way. And when you're deciding, remember that transmit speech below about
400 Hz burns transmit power while making almost no contribution to
speech intelligibilty. The octaves between 100 Hz and 400 Hz add "body"
to your voice, but that's all. If you're ragchewing, you may want that.
If you're chasing DX, contesting, or running QRP, you don't.

73,

Jim Brown K9YC


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