K3 and transverters
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*Has anyone got a K3 with the 2M and 70cm transverters got any comments
plus or minus as to performance. I don't have them myself but a VK is about to order his K3 and will be adding these transverters. His interest is HF, 2 and 70cm and not 6M. I thought I would ask here as I don't know what to tell him due to lack of experience in the higher bands. Off list or On is OK as long as it doesn't flood the reflector with QRM.....:-) 73 * -- *Gary* *Start the day off slow, then taper off.........* K3 #679 KPA500FT #18 KAT500FT 007 P3 #1629 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I have a K3 with the XV transverters for 2 and 3/4 meters. (NOTE: these
are the outboard transverters!) They drive 2 and 3/4 meter TE Systems brick amps to about 300 watts and 75 W respectively. Two comments: 1. The inboard transverter for 2 meters could never be made to function...the unit oscillated with great abandon, despite the best advices of Elecraft. If you look back through the archives, you will find several reports, including one from VK, reportiong this behavior. The K3 works flawlessly with the external units, which I built from kits. 2. For anything but local use, the most important part of the chain is the antenna; its location, height, gain, etc. In particular, at 3/4 meters the bound -water dielectric loss from water in vegetation is very significant, and the antenna must be well above (i.e. must "look" over) nearby trees, Koala Bears, etc. I use a 10 element beam on 2 and an 11 element beam on 3/4 meters, and these are barely adequate for DX use from my location. A good antenna installation (high-gain array, proper feed lines) will overcome any slight deficiencies in the transverter front end...if one can hear antenna noise, one is fine. John Ragle -- W1ZI ========== On 9/15/2012 10:05 AM, Gary Gregory wrote: > *Has anyone got a K3 with the 2M and 70cm transverters got any comments > plus or minus as to performance. > > I don't have them myself but a VK is about to order his K3 and will be > adding these transverters. > > His interest is HF, 2 and 70cm and not 6M. > > I thought I would ask here as I don't know what to tell him due to lack of > experience in the higher bands. > > Off list or On is OK as long as it doesn't flood the reflector with > QRM.....:-) > > 73 > * -- Sent from my lovely old Dell XPS 420 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Gary Gregory
Gary
The K3 with the internal 2m module works excellent and it doesn't have to hang off the back of the transceiver. As for the 70cm the only choice for it is the transverter as far 6m if is already in the K3 to begin with. I use a smaller amp to drive my large 2m amp and it works out quite well that way. I do have a friend who has both the Elecraft transverters for 2/6/432m for his K2 and like them. 73, Fred/N0AZZ -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary Gregory Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 5:06 AM To: Elecraft Subject: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters *Has anyone got a K3 with the 2M and 70cm transverters got any comments plus or minus as to performance. I don't have them myself but a VK is about to order his K3 and will be adding these transverters. His interest is HF, 2 and 70cm and not 6M. I thought I would ask here as I don't know what to tell him due to lack of experience in the higher bands. Off list or On is OK as long as it doesn't flood the reflector with QRM.....:-) 73 * -- *Gary* *Start the day off slow, then taper off.........* K3 #679 KPA500FT #18 KAT500FT 007 P3 #1629 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Gary Gregory
I would say go for it, Gary. The Elecraft transverters all have a high
gain, low noise front end using the ATF-34143 Pseudomorphic High Electron Mobility Transistor (HEMT). I presume your VK friend will be using the internal (K144XV) 2M xverter and the external (XV432) 70cm xverter. If he is going to get the K144XV I would recommend he also gets the K144RFLK to ensure best stability when using CW/SSB/Data. I do not have the 70cm XV432, but have the internal 2m xverter and an external XV70 4m and they work fine. 73 de David G4DMP In a recent message, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> writes >*Has anyone got a K3 with the 2M and 70cm transverters got any comments >plus or minus as to performance. > >I don't have them myself but a VK is about to order his K3 and will be >adding these transverters. > >His interest is HF, 2 and 70cm and not 6M. > >I thought I would ask here as I don't know what to tell him due to lack of >experience in the higher bands. > >Off list or On is OK as long as it doesn't flood the reflector with >QRM.....:-) There's no QRM on the reflector, just Phase Noise! -- + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + | David M Pratt, Kippax, Leeds. | | Website: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by John Ragle
In a recent message, John Ragle <[hidden email]> writes
>1. The inboard transverter for 2 meters could never be made to >function...the unit oscillated with great abandon, despite the best >advices of Elecraft. There was instability on the early K144XV units, but there is a very simple mod that cures it. It is a simple matter of removing a screw. It is the central screw on the top cover. I replace the existing metal pillar and screw with nylon ones and the instability disappeared like magic. I thought there was a mod sheet about that. Wayne/Eric - is there? 73 de David G4DMP -- + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + | David M Pratt, Kippax, Leeds. | | Website: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Gary Gregory
With a K3 I use the XV144, XV222 and XV432 external transverters.
At first I was very disappointed with their frequency drift. It was difficult to stay on frequency from a cold start, and it would continue to drift the more I transmitted. Installing the $100 TCXOs helped but didn't really solve the issue. To minimize frequency drift, the manual suggests to always have the local oscillator powered, easily accomplished by changing a jumper inside; note that requires 12 volts to always be present. I checked the voltage on the 25 amp power supply I was using (a bit overkill on the current, yet it was what I had that wasn't being used) and made sure that it didn't deviate over time or while transmitting. Frequency stability is very important to me as I often run meteor scatter contacts which are quite dependent on accurate frequency control, and demands a key down time of 30 seconds on and 30 seconds off. I thought that perhaps by placing one transverter on top of each other as I had done, wasn't helping the cooling, so I made a little cabinet which offers approximately 3 inches of separation on all sides from the trio. Again, that didn't help very much. Frankly I was ready to go back to a TS-2000 for VHF/UHF as I hadn't been able to solve the drift issue, and it was embarrassing to talk to the locals on 2 meter SSB when I was drifting for the first few minutes. Finally, the problem was solved rather easily. After reading through similar stories from other hams, I found an old cooling fan for a 486 CPU processor which has almost the same dimensions as the small cooling holes on top of each transverter. I applied double-sided tape to each corner of the fan, and placed it on top of the cooling holes. As long as the little fan is on, the transverters will drift only a small amount, which is acceptable for the modes I use. Note that my XV144 is the one I use the most often, and is setup to output only about 4 watts, which is enough to generate 50 watts from one amp (Mirage B108 capable of 80 watts), which is enough to fully drive my 300 watt amp (Mirage B5030G). These amps and the XV144 are keyed using an external sequencer. I'm not sure if the little fan would help if you were to use the full 25 watts output of the transverters. I should also note that the K3 is driving them with very little power (I forget exactly how many milliwatts). Don't use a large computer power supply fan, as the fan motor will be similar in size to the cooling holes, which means you would actually be covering them up and making the problem worse. Finally, I haven't come up with a neat way of daisy chaining them. Typically you would use BNC T connectors, but having three transverters close to each other, with six coaxial cables connected with six BNC T connectors creates quite a mess; in addition to the control cables, but that's just a minor issue. 73 de Sebastian, W4AS On Sep 15, 2012, at 6:05 AM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote: > *Has anyone got a K3 with the 2M and 70cm transverters got any comments > plus or minus as to performance. > > I don't have them myself but a VK is about to order his K3 and will be > adding these transverters. > > His interest is HF, 2 and 70cm and not 6M. > > I thought I would ask here as I don't know what to tell him due to lack of > experience in the higher bands. > > Off list or On is OK as long as it doesn't flood the reflector with > QRM.....:-) > > 73 > * > -- > *Gary* ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Sebastian, W4AS
On 9/15/2012 6:05 PM, Sebastian, W4AS wrote (regarding drift problems with XV144 and XV432 transverters): > <snip> To minimize frequency drift, the manual suggests to always have the local oscillator powered, easily accomplished by changing a jumper inside; note that requires 12 volts to always be present. <snip> Since the local oscillator oven draws only minimal current, and since the units draw very little total current in receive mode, it seems logical to do as the manuals suggest and leave the units powered during periods of potential use. Under these circumstances I have had no problem with drift. I should mention that my XV144 is stacked on my XV432 with 1" aluminum bar stock used for spacing, and there is no cooling fan. John Ragle -- W1ZI ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by John Ragle
What I am personally looking for is information about on the air performance of 144 and 432 Elecraft transverters in strong signal environments like VHF/UHF contests in dense areas with multi-kilowatt folks occupying mountain tops all around.
I planned to make K144XV test during the last IARU R1 VHF championship but due to the lack of upgraded KXV3A board this did not happen (my fault). On the other hand Kuhne "TR 144 H+40" and Elecraft K3 pair allowed to "forget" about front-end overload. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUCECQmgrj0&feature=plcp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JL9GF1rBVo&feature=relmfu VHF contesters opinions are welcomed. 73 Vic US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests) KN29AU UARL VHF committee Chairman, UARL Lvov Branch "LKK" Moderator, UARL VHF portal http://www.vhfdx.at.ua DXCC card checker in Ukraine ________________________________ From: Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and transverters ... My K144XV is perfectly well behaved... ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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On 9/15/2012 10:43 PM, Vic Goncharsky wrote:
> What I am personally looking for is information about on the air performance of 144 and 432 Elecraft transverters in strong signal environments like VHF/UHF contests in dense areas with multi-kilowatt folks occupying mountain tops all around. I recall such a review in QST something like 4-5 years ago. Obviously it applies to the outboard unit, and I think I recall it being the 2M version. Check the ARRL product review archives. Members can download the pdf. I do remember that it was tested in a contesting environment (east coast, maybe New England or the mountains around DC) with a lot of strong signals, and that it was a very positive review. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
Jim,
"mountains around DC" ??? I used to live in Barnsville, MD overlooking Sugarloaf Mountain, and that is about as close to "mountains around DC" as it gets. I cannot recall the height of Sugarloaf Mountain, but it was not that great, and it was private property when I was there in the 1980s - but the owners provided a path to the summit for visitors. It was often referred to as a "bump out of place". One must go quite a ways Northwestward from DC to encounter mountains. Western Maryland yes, Southern Pennsylvania, yes, but much of Maryland is the eastern coastal. plains was flat and without "bumps"- yes those Eastern coastal plains do turn quickly into mountains, so your choice of position is a big factor in your assessment of vertical altitude. If one wants mountains when in Maryland, it is advised to head for Western Virginia and the Shenandoah Mountain range. Southwest of Maryland is the great Shenandoah National Park where My family vacationed for many years. My children grew up on the instructions from the park rangers at Big Meadows. 73, Don W3FPR 9/16/2012 2:06 AM, Jim Brown wrote: > On 9/15/2012 10:43 PM, Vic Goncharsky wrote: >> What I am personally looking for is information about on the air performance of 144 and 432 Elecraft transverters in strong signal environments like VHF/UHF contests in dense areas with multi-kilowatt folks occupying mountain tops all around. > I recall such a review in QST something like 4-5 years ago. Obviously it > applies to the outboard unit, and I think I recall it being the 2M > version. Check the ARRL product review archives. Members can download > the pdf. I do remember that it was tested in a contesting environment > (east coast, maybe New England or the mountains around DC) with a lot of > strong signals, and that it was a very positive review. > > 73, Jim K9YC > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by John Ragle
It's possible that I was among the first, if not the first, to report the
K144XV self-oscillation problem in March 2010 not long after it started shipping. It took six months to solve, including 3 replacements units, a replacement KXV3A and a lot of emails, tests and effort on both sides of the Atlantic. David G4DMP whose K144XV showed the same problem eventually isolated it. As he has said in an earlier posting, the solution, discovered in September 2010, was simple in the end. It is implemented in K144XVs shipped since then and referred to in an Errata Sheet for the K144XV Installation Manual dated September 30th 2010. It applies to pages 15 and 16 of the Manual and involves the omission of one of the screws holding the top cover. I believe the metal standoff beneath the hole may also be omitted now but is still shown in the photograph on page 14 of the Manual, the date of which precedes the solution. In the unlikely event of anyone out there still having the problem, the above details may help. As will be apparent the support from Elecraft was unstinting and the K144XV may now be bought with full confidence. I would agree, however, that the K144RFLK is essential, for CW and SSB operation operation at least. I have never had problems with strong local signals but here the 2m band is so rarely awash with them that it's not surprising. 73 to all Geoff G3UCK -----Original Message----- From: Ron D'Eau Claire Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 12:02 AM It's my understanding that the oscillation problem was solved long ago by (IIRC) a change in the K144XV pc board ground scheme. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
On 9/16/2012 12:20 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> "mountains around DC" ??? As a WV native, with family in the panhandles of MD and WV, I am thinking of the mountains to the W and SW of DC. When I was growing up (in the 50s), metro DC was a lot smaller than it is now, consisting mostly of close-in suburbs like Fairfax, Arlington, Bethesda, etc. Now, DC bedroom communities extend well into MD, PA, VA and WV, where there are, indeed, mountains. Most contesters in that area are members of either the Potomac Valley Radio Club or the Frankfort Radio Club, and last I heard, many DO head for the mountains for VHF contests. I remember doing so when I was growing up in the Ohio Valley. 73, Jim K9YC Official Hillbilly :) ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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