K3 auto spot function

[The Smiths]

What part of I DON'T want to use my sub receiver, or split operation to accomplish this task didn't you guys understand?  I want my sub receiver FREE so that I can listen to another band hunting for DX to come along. Furthermore, I can't read my sub receivers freq. because I have the CWT Text reader running ALL the time.
However, I do thank you for all your time that you've invested in this complicated operation.  It doesn't go un-noticed Brendan.


It's just more work than a one button push would resolve. It's just ONE button guys.. ONE button.. I'm only ask that it do the SAME EXACT thing it does for RIT that it does for XMIT~! It's really not that hard.  Why do I need a formulation like the one below to accomplish something that "comes close" to what I'm trying to do, but involves hanging up my sub receiver from being of any use what so ever.... It's ONE BUTTON!

If you don't like it, DON'T turn the feature on. why is this so hard for you guys to comprehend. You act as if I'm trying to redesign the entire operations of how the K3 function. It's FAR from that.

 

Logic is a hard thing to argue with. I can only sit back and laugh about how hard you guys are fighting this...Trust me, I'm not angry at all.. Not in the least.

 

 


 

> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:30:23 +0000
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 auto spot function
>
> Here is a macro that does most of what you are asking for (no it doesn't
> use rit it uses the Sub RX)
>
> it makes a few assumptions
>
> 1/ that you are already in CW-T mode, you would need to be in this mode
> to use auto spot anyway
> 2/ that it's ok to grab VFO B and make it the TX VFO
>
> here's the macro
> FT0;RT0;LN0;DV0;SWT13;SWT13;SWH13;SWT42;
>
> First get to a consistent state
> FT0; transmit VFOA
> RT0; rx vfo A
> LN0; unlink the 2 vfo's
> DV0; Diversity mode off
>
> SWT13;
> SWT13; (twice, copies all parameters to VFOB)
> SWH13; Turns split on
> SWT42; activates Auto Spot
>
> I tried coding in a couple of commands to enable CW-T then disable it
> again when the macro was finished but this didn't work too well as CW-T
> was being disabled before the spot routine had finished
>
> Use the K3 utility to load the macro, then assign it to a shortcut
> button and you have 1 button access to this from the radio. Only use
> one press as further presses will move the txvfo as well. use the normal
> spot button if you need to try again.
>
> I have tried it, it works. there may be a better way to code this macro
>
> I can still see no use whatsoever for this 'feature' but that is simply
> my Personal opinion.
>
> 73's
> Brendan EI6IZ
>
>
> The Smiths wrote:
> > stop, STOP, STOP. Please stop trying to tell me why I don't want a
> > feature that I'm asking for! I KNOW how the spot works, I use it ALL
> > the time, I KNOW how my RIT works, I use that all the time... I know
> > when and how to use my Width control knob. I know when I can use my
> > spot button with it.
> >
> > People, it's a freaking Spot and RIT combination that I'm looking for
> > here. I'm not looking for any of you to tell me how I can do the same
> > thing, when a simple one button push of the spot button will do
> > EVERYTHING I'm asking for.
> > You don't need to explain to me how I can tune in a second K3 to another
> > band, listen to a harmonic, then hit my sub receiver on, then use the
> > spot button while turning my 3rd receiver's vfo control to zero beat the
> > signal..
> >
> > I just want the Spot button to simply work as a Zero beat control when
> > the RIT button is on, WITHOUT moving my Transmit freq. I'll worry about
> > how all the rest of the operations of my station function. It's
> > really just that simple.
> >
> > Some of you guys on the reflector just want to make things harder than
> > they need to be, I have to figure it's because you have an engineering
> > degree, and don't know how to think like the "simple man".
> >
> > 1. This is why my mother took 12 years to figure out how to set the
> > clock on her VCR. Too bad I had to take it away and replace it
> > with a DVD player. I suspect it will take her another 10 to
> > figure the menus out on that one too.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 auto spot function
> > > From: [hidden email]
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > > CC: [hidden email]
> > > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:48:44 +0000
> > >
> > > But auto spot can ONLY work on signals inside the passband to it cant
> > > help in this situation in any case.
> > > Presumably you are using a very narrow filter because you have nearby
> > > strong signals
> > > I don't see how it can help in this siutaton
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 00:53 +0000, The Smiths wrote:
> > > > I DISSAGREE with you completely. When you use a 100/50Hz Narrow
> > > > Bandwidth setting you NEED to have the other station Zero Beated or
> > > > they fall out of the bandwidth area, or become hard to find with the
> > > > Shift control.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know about you, but I've set my pitch control to a freq. that
> > > > I enjoy hearing, or is best for my hearing. If I could QUICKLY and
> > > > without work just tap a button and Zero Beat the person to the
> > > > selected freq. that I know suites my hearing, I don't see this as an
> > > > unnecessary feature. The spot button is used for EXACTALLY the same
> > > > reason, just with Transmit now.. Why not allow it to do the same
> > > > helpful thing with receive???
> > > >
> > > > Again, as I've said before, Don't turn it on if you don't find use for
> > > > it. Yes, RIT works too, but just as the other person was saying in
> > > > his original post, HE IS TONE DETH and can't tune in the signals to
> > > > his pitch freq... that's why he uses the SPOT feature. This would
> > > > allow him to have the same simple control with the RIT as well.
> > > > For those of you that will argue that we have the CWT "goal post"
> > > > indicator, I say this, I've found many times where it either doesn't
> > > > work well, or it indicates a Zero beat when you are pretty far off.
> > > >
> > > > Again, this is an OPTION that can be used to HELP people. It doesn't
> > > > offer ANY negative operations to your radio. Why people fight things
> > > > so hard is just wondrous to me.
> > > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up
> > now. <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/>
>
>
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[Brendan Minish]

I DO understand exactly what you are asking for and WHY doing it in
split on the second VFO for TX is not exactly what you are looking for.

The best I can do is a macro that uses the Sub RX to achieve a similar
result.  
Yes it means that you can't use your Sub for other things BUT it does
allow you and others to test the Idea of spotting the RX separate from
TX to see if it is in fact a useful feature.

The macro can't turn off CW-T mode, It MUST be on for auto spot to work.
CW decoding CAN be off when in CW-T mode.  
CW-T mode MUST remain on whilst the Auto spot is attempting to zero
beat, the amount of time to zero beat varies, Turning it off in the
Macro does not give it time to complete the signal detection and tuning
routine before the macro turns off CW-T  

Here is why I, even after trying it out, I think this feature request
has no merit, My personal opinion.

For auto-spot to work on any signal it must be within the passband of
the selected filter.
If the signal is within the passband I can hear it, therefore I can copy
it, the Pitch of the incoming signal is of no importance to me,
providing I can hear it.
I have rit on nearly all the time (but zeroed) If I was using auto spot
for it's original purpose then this new suggested behaviour would break
an existing behaviour

If I was relying on a CW decoder then it might be important to be able
to net the RX independently of the TX.
If it's something like CWget surely you just click on the waterfall or
let it find the signal it's self
if it's the internal decoder then the macro will work fine since you
can't see vfo B anyway when decoding on screen

have I missed something in my logic here ?
 
73
Brendan EI6IZ


On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 21:32 +0000, The Smiths wrote:

> What part of I DON'T want to use my sub receiver, or split operation to accomplish this task didn't you guys understand?  I want my sub receiver FREE so that I can listen to another band hunting for DX to come along. Furthermore, I can't read my sub receivers freq. because I have the CWT Text reader running ALL the time.
> However, I do thank you for all your time that you've invested in this complicated operation.  It doesn't go un-noticed Brendan.
>
>
> It's just more work than a one button push would resolve. It's just ONE button guys.. ONE button.. I'm only ask that it do the SAME EXACT thing it does for RIT that it does for XMIT~! It's really not that hard.  Why do I need a formulation like the one below to accomplish something that "comes close" to what I'm trying to do, but involves hanging up my sub receiver from being of any use what so ever.... It's ONE BUTTON!
>
> If you don't like it, DON'T turn the feature on. why is this so hard for you guys to comprehend. You act as if I'm trying to redesign the entire operations of how the K3 function. It's FAR from that.
>
>  
>
> Logic is a hard thing to argue with. I can only sit back and laugh about how hard you guys are fighting this...Trust me, I'm not angry at all.. Not in the least.
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:30:23 +0000
> > From: [hidden email]
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 auto spot function
> >
> > Here is a macro that does most of what you are asking for (no it doesn't
> > use rit it uses the Sub RX)
> >
> > it makes a few assumptions
> >
> > 1/ that you are already in CW-T mode, you would need to be in this mode
> > to use auto spot anyway
> > 2/ that it's ok to grab VFO B and make it the TX VFO
> >
> > here's the macro
> > FT0;RT0;LN0;DV0;SWT13;SWT13;SWH13;SWT42;
> >
> > First get to a consistent state
> > FT0; transmit VFOA
> > RT0; rx vfo A
> > LN0; unlink the 2 vfo's
> > DV0; Diversity mode off
> >
> > SWT13;
> > SWT13; (twice, copies all parameters to VFOB)
> > SWH13; Turns split on
> > SWT42; activates Auto Spot
> >
> > I tried coding in a couple of commands to enable CW-T then disable it
> > again when the macro was finished but this didn't work too well as CW-T
> > was being disabled before the spot routine had finished
> >
> > Use the K3 utility to load the macro, then assign it to a shortcut
> > button and you have 1 button access to this from the radio. Only use
> > one press as further presses will move the txvfo as well. use the normal
> > spot button if you need to try again.
> >
> > I have tried it, it works. there may be a better way to code this macro
> >
> > I can still see no use whatsoever for this 'feature' but that is simply
> > my Personal opinion.
> >
> > 73's
> > Brendan EI6IZ
> >
> >
> > The Smiths wrote:
> > > stop, STOP, STOP. Please stop trying to tell me why I don't want a
> > > feature that I'm asking for! I KNOW how the spot works, I use it ALL
> > > the time, I KNOW how my RIT works, I use that all the time... I know
> > > when and how to use my Width control knob. I know when I can use my
> > > spot button with it.
> > >
> > > People, it's a freaking Spot and RIT combination that I'm looking for
> > > here. I'm not looking for any of you to tell me how I can do the same
> > > thing, when a simple one button push of the spot button will do
> > > EVERYTHING I'm asking for.
> > > You don't need to explain to me how I can tune in a second K3 to another
> > > band, listen to a harmonic, then hit my sub receiver on, then use the
> > > spot button while turning my 3rd receiver's vfo control to zero beat the
> > > signal..
> > >
> > > I just want the Spot button to simply work as a Zero beat control when
> > > the RIT button is on, WITHOUT moving my Transmit freq. I'll worry about
> > > how all the rest of the operations of my station function. It's
> > > really just that simple.
> > >
> > > Some of you guys on the reflector just want to make things harder than
> > > they need to be, I have to figure it's because you have an engineering
> > > degree, and don't know how to think like the "simple man".
> > >
> > > 1. This is why my mother took 12 years to figure out how to set the
> > > clock on her VCR. Too bad I had to take it away and replace it
> > > with a DVD player. I suspect it will take her another 10 to
> > > figure the menus out on that one too.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 auto spot function
> > > > From: [hidden email]
> > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > CC: [hidden email]
> > > > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:48:44 +0000
> > > >
> > > > But auto spot can ONLY work on signals inside the passband to it cant
> > > > help in this situation in any case.
> > > > Presumably you are using a very narrow filter because you have nearby
> > > > strong signals
> > > > I don't see how it can help in this siutaton
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 00:53 +0000, The Smiths wrote:
> > > > > I DISSAGREE with you completely. When you use a 100/50Hz Narrow
> > > > > Bandwidth setting you NEED to have the other station Zero Beated or
> > > > > they fall out of the bandwidth area, or become hard to find with the
> > > > > Shift control.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know about you, but I've set my pitch control to a freq. that
> > > > > I enjoy hearing, or is best for my hearing. If I could QUICKLY and
> > > > > without work just tap a button and Zero Beat the person to the
> > > > > selected freq. that I know suites my hearing, I don't see this as an
> > > > > unnecessary feature. The spot button is used for EXACTALLY the same
> > > > > reason, just with Transmit now.. Why not allow it to do the same
> > > > > helpful thing with receive???
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, as I've said before, Don't turn it on if you don't find use for
> > > > > it. Yes, RIT works too, but just as the other person was saying in
> > > > > his original post, HE IS TONE DETH and can't tune in the signals to
> > > > > his pitch freq... that's why he uses the SPOT feature. This would
> > > > > allow him to have the same simple control with the RIT as well.
> > > > > For those of you that will argue that we have the CWT "goal post"
> > > > > indicator, I say this, I've found many times where it either doesn't
> > > > > work well, or it indicates a Zero beat when you are pretty far off.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, this is an OPTION that can be used to HELP people. It doesn't
> > > > > offer ANY negative operations to your radio. Why people fight things
> > > > > so hard is just wondrous to me.
> > > > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up
> > > now. <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/>
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>      
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

--
73
Brendan EI6IZ

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[Brendan Minish]

I dislike top posting when replying to this sort of thing But I am sure
everyone can follow this in any case

1/ the macro, when uploaded to the radio DOES make this a single button
press operation, that's the idea of macros and the facility that the K3
has for associating command macros with front panel buttons.

2/ yes it does tie up your sub RX, BUT if you have CW decode on then you
can't actually SEE VFO B anyway. The VFO B frequency will always be the
previous VFO frequency, I.E where you were before you pressed the button
that you have associated with the macro.
Still Want to see VFO B? press REV, that's what it's there for
want to go back to the way things were? press A/B followed by either A>B
(tap) or hold (split off)

3/if you haven't got the CW decoder on you can actually see your
transmit frequency all the time on VFOB, if you were using RIT as you
requested you would have to clear or adjust RIT before you can see your
TX frequency.

4/ in a scenario where you have multiple signals and need to narrow the
filters auto-spot is not going to work reliably anyway  

You claim to give 9 reasons, the macro approach only breaks one of the 9
reasons you give (the ability to use the Sub somewhere else, to receive
something else whilst copying CW AND operating split) and can be done
right now, it meets 8 of the 9.

73
Brendan EI6IZ


On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 23:07 +0000, The Smiths wrote:

> Yes, Brendan, you DO understand what I'm asking for. And YES, your
> approach WILL work, but it adds MANY more steps in that are not
> required and causes me to loose a 750 Euro sub receiver that I've paid
> for.  With that said, I will address the other issues.
>
> I don't need to test this function, I already know that it works, and
> it's what I want. Therefore I suggested it.  Others are of course
> welcome to test it as well.  I'm sure they will see the usefulness of
> it if they find themselves using the RIT on a normal occasion.
> There's a reason that we all set the PITCH freq. up the way we do.
> That reason is because we've found that our selected Pitch tones helps
> us "hear" the code better, Makes listening to code more pleasent, and
> it can some times actually help eliminate the noise floor some.
>
> Yes, a signal must be within the passband of the Filter.. this is
> true.  However, after I send a CQ, I generally keep my filter at
> 500Hz.  If I hear someone that is answering my CQ, but is off by 300
> Hz from my "pitch" freq. then I can simply turn on the RIT (or already
> start with it on) and hit the SPOT button.. NOW, this gives me the
> ability to QUICKLY turn the WIDTH knob all the way down to 50 Hz
> KNOWING that the person answering my call is right in the center of my
> Passband, and I'm not going to loose him as I narrow down.  
> This is a QUICK and easy operation at pin pointing someone almost
> instantly. I simply push ONE button, grab the width knob and turn it
> all the way down... BANG it's done.  No fishing around to try and line
> the little CWT tone into the center of the goal post, no moving the
> shift around to find the signal as I lower the Passband WIDTH control
> knob, No having to guess if the tone of my Pitch matches the tone as I
> fish the RIT knob around. Maybe I'm tone deth and I can't hear when
> I'm at 500Hz and the person is at the center of my Passband. Maybe I
> don't have time to fiddle with the knob as he's responding to my
> CQ. NONE OF THAT.. It's a ONE step operation to assuring all of that..
> As well as;
>
> 1 - Have the person in the Pitch Tone that
>     A. Gives my ears the best copy of the code
>     B. Gives me the best noise floor level with the NR I may be using
>
> 2 - Places the person answering me DIRECTLY in the CENTER of the
> passband so that I can
>     A. turn on my narrowest filter and not have to touch the Shit
> control
>     B. have the best/ most accurate internal CW Text decoding
> available to me.
>     C. Know that I'm still transmitting exactly where I was to begin
> with when sending the CQ.
>
> 3 - Not hang up my sub receiver from being useable for cross band, or
> in-band monitoring
>
> 4 - Not make me turn on and off the CWT Text reader to figure out
> where I'm transmitting when in split mode.
>
> Now, I've just given you 9 reasons that ONE push of ONE button can be
> helpful.  Please, tell me, How does having the SPOT button move your
> RIT control automatically to accomplish ALL of those things interfere
> with your normal operations of the K3? Again, KEEP IT IN THE DEFAULT
> "OFF" POSITION IF YOU DON'T WANT YOUR RIT TO MOVE WITH THE SPOT
> BUTTON.  There is absolutely NO adverse effect of this VERY SIMPLE
> programing request.
>
> What more do you need to argue against it?
>
> Just because the first cars had "forward motion" doesn't mean that it
> couldn't also opperate in Reverse too. The same reasoning says that
> just because the K3 Spot button only moves your TX position now,
> doesn't mean that it can't also move your RIT position as well.  
>
> Now, I ask you Brendan, Have you missed something in the Logic here?
>
>  
>
>  
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 auto spot function
> > From: [hidden email]
> > To: [hidden email]
> > CC: [hidden email]
> > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:01:04 +0000
> >
> > I DO understand exactly what you are asking for and WHY doing it in
> > split on the second VFO for TX is not exactly what you are looking
> for.
> >
> > The best I can do is a macro that uses the Sub RX to achieve a
> similar
> > result.
> > Yes it means that you can't use your Sub for other things BUT it
> does
> > allow you and others to test the Idea of spotting the RX separate
> from
> > TX to see if it is in fact a useful feature.
> >
> > The macro can't turn off CW-T mode, It MUST be on for auto spot to
> work.
> > CW decoding CAN be off when in CW-T mode.
> > CW-T mode MUST remain on whilst the Auto spot is attempting to zero
> > beat, the amount of time to zero beat varies, Turning it off in the
> > Macro does not give it time to complete the signal detection and
> tuning
> > routine before the macro turns off CW-T
> >
> > Here is why I, even after trying it out, I think this feature
> request
> > has no merit, My personal opinion.
> >
> > For auto-spot to work on any signal it must be within the passband
> of
> > the selected filter.
> > If the signal is within the passband I can hear it, therefore I can
> copy
> > it, the Pitch of the incoming signal is of no importance to me,
> > providing I can hear it.
> > I have rit on nearly all the time (but zeroed) If I was using auto
> spot
> > for it's original purpose then this new suggested behaviour would
> break
> > an existing behaviour
> >
> > If I was relying on a CW decoder then it might be important to be
> able
> > to net the RX independently of the TX.
> > If it's something like CWget surely you just click on the waterfall
> or
> > let it find the signal it's self
> > if it's the internal decoder then the macro will work fine since you
> > can't see vfo B anyway when decoding on screen
> >
> > have I missed something in my logic here ?
> >
> > 73
> > Brendan EI6IZ
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 21:32 +0000, The Smiths wrote:
> > > What part of I DON'T want to use my sub receiver, or split
> operation to accomplish this task didn't you guys understand? I want
> my sub receiver FREE so that I can listen to another band hunting for
> DX to come along. Furthermore, I can't read my sub receivers freq.
> because I have the CWT Text reader running ALL the time.
> > > However, I do thank you for all your time that you've invested in
> this complicated operation. It doesn't go un-noticed Brendan.
> > >
> > >
> > > It's just more work than a one button push would resolve. It's
> just ONE button guys.. ONE button.. I'm only ask that it do the SAME
> EXACT thing it does for RIT that it does for XMIT~! It's really not
> that hard. Why do I need a formulation like the one below to
> accomplish something that "comes close" to what I'm trying to do, but
> involves hanging up my sub receiver from being of any use what so
> ever.... It's ONE BUTTON!
> > >
> > > If you don't like it, DON'T turn the feature on. why is this so
> hard for you guys to comprehend. You act as if I'm trying to redesign
> the entire operations of how the K3 function. It's FAR from that.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Logic is a hard thing to argue with. I can only sit back and laugh
> about how hard you guys are fighting this...Trust me, I'm not angry at
> all.. Not in the least.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:30:23 +0000
> > > > From: [hidden email]
> > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 auto spot function
> > > >
> > > > Here is a macro that does most of what you are asking for (no it
> doesn't
> > > > use rit it uses the Sub RX)
> > > >
> > > > it makes a few assumptions
> > > >
> > > > 1/ that you are already in CW-T mode, you would need to be in
> this mode
> > > > to use auto spot anyway
> > > > 2/ that it's ok to grab VFO B and make it the TX VFO
> > > >
> > > > here's the macro
> > > > FT0;RT0;LN0;DV0;SWT13;SWT13;SWH13;SWT42;
> > > >
> > > > First get to a consistent state
> > > > FT0; transmit VFOA
> > > > RT0; rx vfo A
> > > > LN0; unlink the 2 vfo's
> > > > DV0; Diversity mode off
> > > >
> > > > SWT13;
> > > > SWT13; (twice, copies all parameters to VFOB)
> > > > SWH13; Turns split on
> > > > SWT42; activates Auto Spot
> > > >
> > > > I tried coding in a couple of commands to enable CW-T then
> disable it
> > > > again when the macro was finished but this didn't work too well
> as CW-T
> > > > was being disabled before the spot routine had finished
> > > >
> > > > Use the K3 utility to load the macro, then assign it to a
> shortcut
> > > > button and you have 1 button access to this from the radio. Only
> use
> > > > one press as further presses will move the txvfo as well. use
> the normal
> > > > spot button if you need to try again.
> > > >
> > > > I have tried it, it works. there may be a better way to code
> this macro
> > > >
> > > > I can still see no use whatsoever for this 'feature' but that is
> simply
> > > > my Personal opinion.
> > > >
> > > > 73's
> > > > Brendan EI6IZ
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Smiths wrote:
> > > > > stop, STOP, STOP. Please stop trying to tell me why I don't
> want a
> > > > > feature that I'm asking for! I KNOW how the spot works, I use
> it ALL
> > > > > the time, I KNOW how my RIT works, I use that all the time...
> I know
> > > > > when and how to use my Width control knob. I know when I can
> use my
> > > > > spot button with it.
> > > > >
> > > > > People, it's a freaking Spot and RIT combination that I'm
> looking for
> > > > > here. I'm not looking for any of you to tell me how I can do
> the same
> > > > > thing, when a simple one button push of the spot button will
> do
> > > > > EVERYTHING I'm asking for.
> > > > > You don't need to explain to me how I can tune in a second K3
> to another
> > > > > band, listen to a harmonic, then hit my sub receiver on, then
> use the
> > > > > spot button while turning my 3rd receiver's vfo control to
> zero beat the
> > > > > signal..
> > > > >
> > > > > I just want the Spot button to simply work as a Zero beat
> control when
> > > > > the RIT button is on, WITHOUT moving my Transmit freq. I'll
> worry about
> > > > > how all the rest of the operations of my station function.
> It's
> > > > > really just that simple.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some of you guys on the reflector just want to make things
> harder than
> > > > > they need to be, I have to figure it's because you have an
> engineering
> > > > > degree, and don't know how to think like the "simple man".
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. This is why my mother took 12 years to figure out how to
> set the
> > > > > clock on her VCR. Too bad I had to take it away and replace it
> > > > > with a DVD player. I suspect it will take her another 10 to
> > > > > figure the menus out on that one too.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 auto spot function
> > > > > > From: [hidden email]
> > > > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > CC: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:48:44 +0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But auto spot can ONLY work on signals inside the passband
> to it cant
> > > > > > help in this situation in any case.
> > > > > > Presumably you are using a very narrow filter because you
> have nearby
> > > > > > strong signals
> > > > > > I don't see how it can help in this siutaton
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 00:53 +0000, The Smiths wrote:
> > > > > > > I DISSAGREE with you completely. When you use a 100/50Hz
> Narrow
> > > > > > > Bandwidth setting you NEED to have the other station Zero
> Beated or
> > > > > > > they fall out of the bandwidth area, or become hard to
> find with the
> > > > > > > Shift control.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know about you, but I've set my pitch control to a
> freq. that
> > > > > > > I enjoy hearing, or is best for my hearing. If I could
> QUICKLY and
> > > > > > > without work just tap a button and Zero Beat the person to
> the
> > > > > > > selected freq. that I know suites my hearing, I don't see
> this as an
> > > > > > > unnecessary feature. The spot button is used for EXACTALLY
> the same
> > > > > > > reason, just with Transmit now.. Why not allow it to do
> the same
> > > > > > > helpful thing with receive???
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Again, as I've said before, Don't turn it on if you don't
> find use for
> > > > > > > it. Yes, RIT works too, but just as the other person was
> saying in
> > > > > > > his original post, HE IS TONE DETH and can't tune in the
> signals to
> > > > > > > his pitch freq... that's why he uses the SPOT feature.
> This would
> > > > > > > allow him to have the same simple control with the RIT as
> well.
> > > > > > > For those of you that will argue that we have the CWT
> "goal post"
> > > > > > > indicator, I say this, I've found many times where it
> either doesn't
> > > > > > > work well, or it indicates a Zero beat when you are pretty
> far off.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Again, this is an OPTION that can be used to HELP people.
> It doesn't
> > > > > > > offer ANY negative operations to your radio. Why people
> fight things
> > > > > > > so hard is just wondrous to me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> Sign up
> > > > > now. <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> > > >
> > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > > Please help support this email list:
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> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/
> > > ______________________________________________________________
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> > >
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> >
> > --
> > 73
> > Brendan EI6IZ
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
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--
73
Brendan EI6IZ

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[The Smiths]

Yes, Brendan, you DO understand what I'm asking for. And YES, your approach WILL work, but it adds MANY more steps in that are not required and causes me to loose a 750 Euro sub receiver that I've paid for.  With that said, I will address the other issues.

I don't need to test this function, I already know that it works, and it's what I want. Therefore I suggested it.  Others are of course welcome to test it as well.  I'm sure they will see the usefulness of it if they find themselves using the RIT on a normal occasion.
There's a reason that we all set the PITCH freq. up the way we do.  That reason is because we've found that our selected Pitch tones helps us "hear" the code better, Makes listening to code more pleasent, and it can some times actually help eliminate the noise floor some.

Yes, a signal must be within the passband of the Filter.. this is true.  However, after I send a CQ, I generally keep my filter at 500Hz.  If I hear someone that is answering my CQ, but is off by 300 Hz from my "pitch" freq. then I can simply turn on the RIT (or already start with it on) and hit the SPOT button.. NOW, this gives me the ability to QUICKLY turn the WIDTH knob all the way down to 50 Hz KNOWING that the person answering my call is right in the center of my Passband, and I'm not going to loose him as I narrow down.  
This is a QUICK and easy operation at pin pointing someone almost instantly. I simply push ONE button, grab the width knob and turn it all the way down... BANG it's done.  No fishing around to try and line the little CWT tone into the center of the goal post, no moving the shift around to find the signal as I lower the Passband WIDTH control knob, No having to guess if the tone of my Pitch matches the tone as I fish the RIT knob around. Maybe I'm tone deth and I can't hear when I'm at 500Hz and the person is at the center of my Passband. Maybe I don't have time to fiddle with the knob as he's responding to my CQ. NONE OF THAT.. It's a ONE step operation to assuring all of that.. As well as;

1 - Have the person in the Pitch Tone that
    A. Gives my ears the best copy of the code
    B. Gives me the best noise floor level with the NR I may be using

2 - Places the person answering me DIRECTLY in the CENTER of the passband so that I can
    A. turn on my narrowest filter and not have to touch the Shit control
    B. have the best/ most accurate internal CW Text decoding available to me.
    C. Know that I'm still transmitting exactly where I was to begin with when sending the CQ.

3 - Not hang up my sub receiver from being useable for cross band, or in-band monitoring

4 - Not make me turn on and off the CWT Text reader to figure out where I'm transmitting when in split mode.

Now, I've just given you 9 reasons that ONE push of ONE button can be helpful.  Please, tell me, How does having the SPOT button move your RIT control automatically to accomplish ALL of those things interfere with your normal operations of the K3? Again, KEEP IT IN THE DEFAULT "OFF" POSITION IF YOU DON'T WANT YOUR RIT TO MOVE WITH THE SPOT BUTTON.  There is absolutely NO adverse effect of this VERY SIMPLE programing request.

What more do you need to argue against it?

Just because the first cars had "forward motion" doesn't mean that it couldn't also opperate in Reverse too. The same reasoning says that just because the K3 Spot button only moves your TX position now, doesn't mean that it can't also move your RIT position as well.  

Now, I ask you Brendan, Have you missed something in the Logic here?

 

 

> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 auto spot function
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> CC: [hidden email]
> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:01:04 +0000
>
> I DO understand exactly what you are asking for and WHY doing it in
> split on the second VFO for TX is not exactly what you are looking for.
>
> The best I can do is a macro that uses the Sub RX to achieve a similar
> result.
> Yes it means that you can't use your Sub for other things BUT it does
> allow you and others to test the Idea of spotting the RX separate from
> TX to see if it is in fact a useful feature.
>
> The macro can't turn off CW-T mode, It MUST be on for auto spot to work.
> CW decoding CAN be off when in CW-T mode.
> CW-T mode MUST remain on whilst the Auto spot is attempting to zero
> beat, the amount of time to zero beat varies, Turning it off in the
> Macro does not give it time to complete the signal detection and tuning
> routine before the macro turns off CW-T
>
> Here is why I, even after trying it out, I think this feature request
> has no merit, My personal opinion.
>
> For auto-spot to work on any signal it must be within the passband of
> the selected filter.
> If the signal is within the passband I can hear it, therefore I can copy
> it, the Pitch of the incoming signal is of no importance to me,
> providing I can hear it.
> I have rit on nearly all the time (but zeroed) If I was using auto spot
> for it's original purpose then this new suggested behaviour would break
> an existing behaviour
>
> If I was relying on a CW decoder then it might be important to be able
> to net the RX independently of the TX.
> If it's something like CWget surely you just click on the waterfall or
> let it find the signal it's self
> if it's the internal decoder then the macro will work fine since you
> can't see vfo B anyway when decoding on screen
>
> have I missed something in my logic here ?
>
> 73
> Brendan
>

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[KK7P]

We've noted the request for this function and put it on the customer
suggested features list for future consideration.

Back to your regular programming...

73,

Lyle KK7P
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[The Smiths]

Thank you Lyle.  Glad to know that it was noted.  END OF THREAD.
 

> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:14:18 -0800
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 auto spot function
>
> We've noted the request for this function and put it on the customer
> suggested features list for future consideration.
>
> Back to your regular programming...
>
> 73,
>
> Lyle KK7P
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

     
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[Lu Romero - W4LT]

Pardon the interruption, but while watching this interesting thread as a
<gasp!> ex Product Development Manager with a <shudder>
engineering/operations background, I have a little itty bitty, teensy weensy
question on your proposed use case scenario:

|If I hear someone that is answering my CQ, but is off by 300 Hz from my
"pitch" freq. then I can simply turn on |the RIT (or already start with it
on) and hit the SPOT button.. NOW, this gives me the ability to QUICKLY turn
|the WIDTH knob all the way down to 50 Hz KNOWING that the person answering
my call is right in the center of my |Passband, and I'm not going to loose
him as I narrow down.  

How does the radio choose the specific pitch to center up when there is more
than one caller within your passband?  Frequency?  Level?  Random?  Do you
expect the product to *choose the one specific station* that your mind
chooses to "match pitch" to without a telepathy subroutine, or will you
always be happy with the radio's choice?  If not, then how do you tell the
radio to center that *one specific caller* at that *one specific tone
frequency* that you want?  In the existing GUI, the functionality to cover
this decision point is "twist the RIT knob".  How do you propose to modify
the GUI functionality to do what you want and get consistent results?

Not being flippant, but I just wonder, from a product functionality
development angle, if you have considered all the use cases scenarios for
the requested feature.  

While I agree that, on the surface, the feature has merit on paper, the
"real world" often brings "unexpected results" to perfectly viable use
cases.  

I used to be in Automation.  Funny thing about Automation... It always
worked flawlessly.  It only broke when it was given wrong or incomplete
information by its users who assumed it would think for them.

Lu Romero
W4LT

"Product Management is not a job for the faint of heart"  ...Jim Layton,
Harris Broadcast



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[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ]

Guys - As Lyle noted, we've noted the request.

Let's end the thread for now. No need to beat it to death arguing about
it. :-)

73, Eric   WA6HHQ
List Moderator



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[k1htv]

Hi OM or YL,
   Since you have never given your call or name (or did I miss it in once of
your posts?) we have no idea who is the person using "The Smiths" email address.
I guess all we know is that since you used Euros to purchase your K3
sub-receiver, you are probably in Europe.

As far as this ongoing thread of the "K3 auto spot function", I completely agree
with your logic and the need for such a function. Having a single button to
properly center the receive signal of a calling station (without changing the TX
frequency) would be great. It would be a very efficient way of optimizing the
incoming audio tone to the proper frequency for the user to quickly reduce the
K3's filter bandwith. I work CW contests and usually start off using a
relatively wide, 500 Hz CW bandwidth. This is done because, as has been noted,
many stations will call off frequency.  When a weak one calls off frequency, but
is still in the passband of the wider filter, having the described feature would
allow users to quickly narrow the Width control to optimize the SNR. If not
properly centered in the passband, the signal can disappear when the bandwidth
is reduced, until the VFO or RIT is manually tuned.

I believe that adding this autotune RIT option to the CONFIG: menu would be
helpful to us who need to quickly dig into the noise for weak, off frequency
stations that answer our CQs. The default could have this option off for those
not needing to use it.

So, the ball is in the court of Elecraft's great software designers to either
accept and implement the suggestion........ or reject it.

The topic has been thoroughly discussed.

What say Elecraft? Yea? Nay?

73,
Rich - K1HTV
Cwops #198

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