K3 - background hiss
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I have had my K3 for a couple of months - so I am still learning.
At this point, my primary concern is the amount of background hiss that I have when no signals are being received. For example: When on 75 this AM I am listening to a local net. When no one is talking the background hiss rises. When I switch to my TS-480, signals are just as strong and everything is the same - EXCEPT there is nearly zero background hiss. I use the ATT on both rigs. I much prefer the near FM silence of the 480. I have already reduced it somewhat by use of the RX Equalizer. However, it needs a lot more reduction to get to what I feel is an acceptable level. Of note: I live in a rural area that has no background noise - daytime level on 75 meters is zero. Suggestions would be most appreciated. Bill W2BLC -- IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician) ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Bill,
That is the AGC which makes it sound like that. Look at my webpage article dealing with "Noisy K3" to give you some information about how to adjust the AGC parameters to reduce that effect. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/28/2012 9:00 AM, Bill wrote: > I have had my K3 for a couple of months - so I am still learning. > > At this point, my primary concern is the amount of background hiss that > I have when no signals are being received. For example: When on 75 this > AM I am listening to a local net. When no one is talking the background > hiss rises. > > When I switch to my TS-480, signals are just as strong and everything is > the same - EXCEPT there is nearly zero background hiss. I use the ATT on > both rigs. I much prefer the near FM silence of the 480. > > I have already reduced it somewhat by use of the RX Equalizer. However, > it needs a lot more reduction to get to what I feel is an acceptable > level. Of note: I live in a rural area that has no background noise - > daytime level on 75 meters is zero. > > Suggestions would be most appreciated. > > Bill W2BLC > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Bill Clarke
I remember that my Kenwood 850 was quiet like that compared to my Yeasu 990. Possibly how the agc is handled by Kenwood?
Sent from my iPad On Apr 28, 2012, at 8:07 AM, "Bill" <[hidden email]> wrote: > I have had my K3 for a couple of months - so I am still learning. > > At this point, my primary concern is the amount of background hiss that > I have when no signals are being received. For example: When on 75 this > AM I am listening to a local net. When no one is talking the background > hiss rises. > > When I switch to my TS-480, signals are just as strong and everything is > the same - EXCEPT there is nearly zero background hiss. I use the ATT on > both rigs. I much prefer the near FM silence of the 480. > > I have already reduced it somewhat by use of the RX Equalizer. However, > it needs a lot more reduction to get to what I feel is an acceptable > level. Of note: I live in a rural area that has no background noise - > daytime level on 75 meters is zero. > > Suggestions would be most appreciated. > > Bill W2BLC > > -- > IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician) > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Chuck, KE9UW
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I have a Kenwood TS-590S for a back up to my K3 and it has a noticeably quieter background than the K3.
I believe we should be able to address this with the NR in the K3, I'm still learning how to adjust the NR. Bob K6UJ On Apr 28, 2012, at 12:15 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: > I remember that my Kenwood 850 was quiet like that compared to my Yeasu 990. Possibly how the agc is handled by Kenwood? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Apr 28, 2012, at 8:07 AM, "Bill" <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> I have had my K3 for a couple of months - so I am still learning. >> >> At this point, my primary concern is the amount of background hiss that >> I have when no signals are being received. For example: When on 75 this >> AM I am listening to a local net. When no one is talking the background >> hiss rises. >> >> When I switch to my TS-480, signals are just as strong and everything is >> the same - EXCEPT there is nearly zero background hiss. I use the ATT on >> both rigs. I much prefer the near FM silence of the 480. >> >> I have already reduced it somewhat by use of the RX Equalizer. However, >> it needs a lot more reduction to get to what I feel is an acceptable >> level. Of note: I live in a rural area that has no background noise - >> daytime level on 75 meters is zero. >> >> Suggestions would be most appreciated. >> >> Bill W2BLC >> >> -- >> IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician) >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Bob,
The K3 has more reserve gain than most other receivers, and the lack of signals cause the AGC to set the receiver top full gain. With other receivers, I usually can run the preamp to advantage, but with my K3 it is fine without the preamp on. Do you have the preamp on? If not, perhaps you want to turn on the attenuator. To tell if you have enough gain, disconnect the antenna and then reconnect it. If the receiver can hear the "antenna noise" you can reduce the gain even further - perhaps by reducing the RF Gain. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/28/2012 6:42 PM, Bob K6UJ wrote: > I have a Kenwood TS-590S for a back up to my K3 and it has a noticeably quieter background than the K3. > I believe we should be able to address this with the NR in the K3, I'm still learning how to adjust the NR. > > > Bob > K6UJ > > > > On Apr 28, 2012, at 12:15 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: > >> I remember that my Kenwood 850 was quiet like that compared to my Yeasu 990. Possibly how the agc is handled by Kenwood? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Apr 28, 2012, at 8:07 AM, "Bill"<[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> I have had my K3 for a couple of months - so I am still learning. >>> >>> At this point, my primary concern is the amount of background hiss that >>> I have when no signals are being received. For example: When on 75 this >>> AM I am listening to a local net. When no one is talking the background >>> hiss rises. >>> >>> When I switch to my TS-480, signals are just as strong and everything is >>> the same - EXCEPT there is nearly zero background hiss. I use the ATT on >>> both rigs. I much prefer the near FM silence of the 480. >>> >>> I have already reduced it somewhat by use of the RX Equalizer. However, >>> it needs a lot more reduction to get to what I feel is an acceptable >>> level. Of note: I live in a rural area that has no background noise - >>> daytime level on 75 meters is zero. >>> >>> Suggestions would be most appreciated. >>> >>> Bill W2BLC >>> >>> -- >>> IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician) >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Don,
I usually leave the preamp on and not really needed as you said. I will try backing down the RF gain a tad also. Thanks for the info. I found too, unless I have other noise issues to deal with, setting the NR at F1-1 reduces the hiss quite a bit, and no impact at all on the sig. Just seems to give a quieter background, very nice. Bob K6UJ On Apr 28, 2012, at 4:01 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Bob, > > The K3 has more reserve gain than most other receivers, and the lack of signals cause the AGC to set the receiver top full gain. > > With other receivers, I usually can run the preamp to advantage, but with my K3 it is fine without the preamp on. > > Do you have the preamp on? If not, perhaps you want to turn on the attenuator. To tell if you have enough gain, disconnect the antenna and then reconnect it. If the receiver can hear the "antenna noise" you can reduce the gain even further - perhaps by reducing the RF Gain. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 4/28/2012 6:42 PM, Bob K6UJ wrote: >> I have a Kenwood TS-590S for a back up to my K3 and it has a noticeably quieter background than the K3. >> I believe we should be able to address this with the NR in the K3, I'm still learning how to adjust the NR. >> >> >> Bob >> K6UJ >> >> >> >> On Apr 28, 2012, at 12:15 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: >> >>> I remember that my Kenwood 850 was quiet like that compared to my Yeasu 990. Possibly how the agc is handled by Kenwood? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 8:07 AM, "Bill"<[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> I have had my K3 for a couple of months - so I am still learning. >>>> >>>> At this point, my primary concern is the amount of background hiss that >>>> I have when no signals are being received. For example: When on 75 this >>>> AM I am listening to a local net. When no one is talking the background >>>> hiss rises. >>>> >>>> When I switch to my TS-480, signals are just as strong and everything is >>>> the same - EXCEPT there is nearly zero background hiss. I use the ATT on >>>> both rigs. I much prefer the near FM silence of the 480. >>>> >>>> I have already reduced it somewhat by use of the RX Equalizer. However, >>>> it needs a lot more reduction to get to what I feel is an acceptable >>>> level. Of note: I live in a rural area that has no background noise - >>>> daytime level on 75 meters is zero. >>>> >>>> Suggestions would be most appreciated. >>>> >>>> Bill W2BLC >>>> >>>> -- >>>> IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician) >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Bob K6UJ
You only need set PRE/none/ATT and RF gain correctly. Many people seem to
thing that RF gain at max all the time and PRE on all the time, for all bands all the time, is the normal setting. You can make this exact same error on a Ten-Tec Orion. PRE/ATT/RF gain need to be set for ambient noise with NO signal to be at a very moderate level. It is not at all uncommon on 160 and 80 for that to be ATT on and RF gain at two PM. My Yaesu MP dealt with that issue by deliberately making 160/80 insensitive so they would not receive reports of a noisy receiver. On your K3 you have the flexibility to use those on the low bands to supply preamplier gain for low output directional RX antennas. My TX antenna on 160 is ATT on, RF gain at noon, and phased loops-on-ground to NE on the second RX set to PRE on and RF gain at max. Works balanced and gang-busters on diversity, because the flexibility in the K3 allows me to equalize the noise levels in the antennas. There is no roaring noise coming out of the RX and NR does not really help for really weak CW signals. Narrow selectivity does better. 73, Guy. On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Bob K6UJ <[hidden email]> wrote: > I have a Kenwood TS-590S for a back up to my K3 and it has a noticeably > quieter background than the K3. > I believe we should be able to address this with the NR in the K3, I'm > still learning how to adjust the NR. > > > Bob > K6UJ > > > > On Apr 28, 2012, at 12:15 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: > > > I remember that my Kenwood 850 was quiet like that compared to my Yeasu > 990. Possibly how the agc is handled by Kenwood? > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On Apr 28, 2012, at 8:07 AM, "Bill" <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > >> I have had my K3 for a couple of months - so I am still learning. > >> > >> At this point, my primary concern is the amount of background hiss that > >> I have when no signals are being received. For example: When on 75 this > >> AM I am listening to a local net. When no one is talking the background > >> hiss rises. > >> > >> When I switch to my TS-480, signals are just as strong and everything is > >> the same - EXCEPT there is nearly zero background hiss. I use the ATT on > >> both rigs. I much prefer the near FM silence of the 480. > >> > >> I have already reduced it somewhat by use of the RX Equalizer. However, > >> it needs a lot more reduction to get to what I feel is an acceptable > >> level. Of note: I live in a rural area that has no background noise - > >> daytime level on 75 meters is zero. > >> > >> Suggestions would be most appreciated. > >> > >> Bill W2BLC > >> > >> -- > >> IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician) > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> Elecraft mailing list > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] > >> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Bob K6UJ
CW or SSB or both? How old is the K3? There was a DSP swapout that
addressed this. For SSB I drop the FC on the filter down to about 1.0 which helps. There were some other settings that might help. Check the archives. Mike W0MU W0MU-1 CC Cluster w0mu.net On 4/28/2012 5:35 PM, Bob K6UJ wrote: > Don, > I usually leave the preamp on and not really needed as you said. I will try backing down the RF gain > a tad also. Thanks for the info. > I found too, unless I have other noise issues to deal with, setting the NR at F1-1 > reduces the hiss quite a bit, and no impact at all on the sig. Just seems to give a quieter background, very nice. > > Bob > K6UJ > > > On Apr 28, 2012, at 4:01 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > >> Bob, >> >> The K3 has more reserve gain than most other receivers, and the lack of signals cause the AGC to set the receiver top full gain. >> >> With other receivers, I usually can run the preamp to advantage, but with my K3 it is fine without the preamp on. >> >> Do you have the preamp on? If not, perhaps you want to turn on the attenuator. To tell if you have enough gain, disconnect the antenna and then reconnect it. If the receiver can hear the "antenna noise" you can reduce the gain even further - perhaps by reducing the RF Gain. >> >> 73, >> Don W3FPR >> >> On 4/28/2012 6:42 PM, Bob K6UJ wrote: >>> I have a Kenwood TS-590S for a back up to my K3 and it has a noticeably quieter background than the K3. >>> I believe we should be able to address this with the NR in the K3, I'm still learning how to adjust the NR. >>> >>> >>> Bob >>> K6UJ >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 12:15 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: >>> >>>> I remember that my Kenwood 850 was quiet like that compared to my Yeasu 990. Possibly how the agc is handled by Kenwood? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 8:07 AM, "Bill"<[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have had my K3 for a couple of months - so I am still learning. >>>>> >>>>> At this point, my primary concern is the amount of background hiss that >>>>> I have when no signals are being received. For example: When on 75 this >>>>> AM I am listening to a local net. When no one is talking the background >>>>> hiss rises. >>>>> >>>>> When I switch to my TS-480, signals are just as strong and everything is >>>>> the same - EXCEPT there is nearly zero background hiss. I use the ATT on >>>>> both rigs. I much prefer the near FM silence of the 480. >>>>> >>>>> I have already reduced it somewhat by use of the RX Equalizer. However, >>>>> it needs a lot more reduction to get to what I feel is an acceptable >>>>> level. Of note: I live in a rural area that has no background noise - >>>>> daytime level on 75 meters is zero. >>>>> >>>>> Suggestions would be most appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Bill W2BLC >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician) >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>>>> >>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Bob K6UJ
You guys are on the wrong track, NR is a waste of time on the K3 on SSB, esp
low bands and attenuation ATT and/or RF gain reduction is way better to keep audio clarity whilst making noise transparent. Recommend; AGC threshold = 8 AGC slope = 0. This white noise issue is fixed with N1EU pink noise roll-off settings; RX Eq settings Low to High audio band: 50 = +9 100= +5 200= +2 400=0 800=-2 1.6k=-3 2.4k=-5 3.2k=-10 Problem solved . Adrian ... vk4tux ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Bob K6UJ
Bob,
I would discourage you from using the preamp except on the higher bands where the atmospheric noise is lower. I would also discourage you from using NR for that purpose. The K3 is a contest/DX class transceiver, and like a fine race car, does need to have a little more than casual "all knobs to the right" operation. If you reduce the RF gain, the S-meter will no longer be calibrated. You can make the S-meter response independent of the RF Gain by setting the Config menu to SMTR MD to ABS. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/28/2012 7:35 PM, Bob K6UJ wrote: > Don, > I usually leave the preamp on and not really needed as you said. I will try backing down the RF gain > a tad also. Thanks for the info. > I found too, unless I have other noise issues to deal with, setting the NR at F1-1 > reduces the hiss quite a bit, and no impact at all on the sig. Just seems to give a quieter background, very nice. > > Bob > K6UJ > > > On Apr 28, 2012, at 4:01 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > >> Bob, >> >> The K3 has more reserve gain than most other receivers, and the lack of signals cause the AGC to set the receiver top full gain. >> >> With other receivers, I usually can run the preamp to advantage, but with my K3 it is fine without the preamp on. >> >> Do you have the preamp on? If not, perhaps you want to turn on the attenuator. To tell if you have enough gain, disconnect the antenna and then reconnect it. If the receiver can hear the "antenna noise" you can reduce the gain even further - perhaps by reducing the RF Gain. >> >> 73, >> Don W3FPR >> >> On 4/28/2012 6:42 PM, Bob K6UJ wrote: >>> I have a Kenwood TS-590S for a back up to my K3 and it has a noticeably quieter background than the K3. >>> I believe we should be able to address this with the NR in the K3, I'm still learning how to adjust the NR. >>> >>> >>> Bob >>> K6UJ >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 12:15 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: >>> >>>> I remember that my Kenwood 850 was quiet like that compared to my Yeasu 990. Possibly how the agc is handled by Kenwood? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 8:07 AM, "Bill"<[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have had my K3 for a couple of months - so I am still learning. >>>>> >>>>> At this point, my primary concern is the amount of background hiss that >>>>> I have when no signals are being received. For example: When on 75 this >>>>> AM I am listening to a local net. When no one is talking the background >>>>> hiss rises. >>>>> >>>>> When I switch to my TS-480, signals are just as strong and everything is >>>>> the same - EXCEPT there is nearly zero background hiss. I use the ATT on >>>>> both rigs. I much prefer the near FM silence of the 480. >>>>> >>>>> I have already reduced it somewhat by use of the RX Equalizer. However, >>>>> it needs a lot more reduction to get to what I feel is an acceptable >>>>> level. Of note: I live in a rural area that has no background noise - >>>>> daytime level on 75 meters is zero. >>>>> >>>>> Suggestions would be most appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Bill W2BLC >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician) >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>>>> >>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV
Guy,
Thanks for the info. I think I have "afraid I wont be able to copy weak signal" fobia, hihi. I need to experiment more with the RF gain and PRE and convince myself that that I am not sacrificing weak sig copy. My problem lies in the space between the headphones, hihihihi Bob K6UJ On Apr 28, 2012, at 4:58 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: > You only need set PRE/none/ATT and RF gain correctly. Many people seem to thing that RF gain at max all the time and PRE on all the time, for all bands all the time, is the normal setting. > > You can make this exact same error on a Ten-Tec Orion. PRE/ATT/RF gain need to be set for ambient noise with NO signal to be at a very moderate level. It is not at all uncommon on 160 and 80 for that to be ATT on and RF gain at two PM. My Yaesu MP dealt with that issue by deliberately making 160/80 insensitive so they would not receive reports of a noisy receiver. > > On your K3 you have the flexibility to use those on the low bands to supply preamplier gain for low output directional RX antennas. > > My TX antenna on 160 is ATT on, RF gain at noon, and phased loops-on-ground to NE on the second RX set to PRE on and RF gain at max. Works balanced and gang-busters on diversity, because the flexibility in the K3 allows me to equalize the noise levels in the antennas. There is no roaring noise coming out of the RX and NR does not really help for really weak CW signals. Narrow selectivity does better. > > 73, Guy. > > On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Bob K6UJ <[hidden email]> wrote: > I have a Kenwood TS-590S for a back up to my K3 and it has a noticeably quieter background than the K3. > I believe we should be able to address this with the NR in the K3, I'm still learning how to adjust the NR. > > > Bob > K6UJ > > > > On Apr 28, 2012, at 12:15 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: > > > I remember that my Kenwood 850 was quiet like that compared to my Yeasu 990. Possibly how the agc is handled by Kenwood? > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On Apr 28, 2012, at 8:07 AM, "Bill" <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > >> I have had my K3 for a couple of months - so I am still learning. > >> > >> At this point, my primary concern is the amount of background hiss that > >> I have when no signals are being received. For example: When on 75 this > >> AM I am listening to a local net. When no one is talking the background > >> hiss rises. > >> > >> When I switch to my TS-480, signals are just as strong and everything is > >> the same - EXCEPT there is nearly zero background hiss. I use the ATT on > >> both rigs. I much prefer the near FM silence of the 480. > >> > >> I have already reduced it somewhat by use of the RX Equalizer. However, > >> it needs a lot more reduction to get to what I feel is an acceptable > >> level. Of note: I live in a rural area that has no background noise - > >> daytime level on 75 meters is zero. > >> > >> Suggestions would be most appreciated. > >> > >> Bill W2BLC > >> > >> -- > >> IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician) > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> Elecraft mailing list > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] > >> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Bob,
Guy is giving you a lot of good advice, and he has some serious operating skills behind him, so he knows what he is saying. Maybe you can think of it this way -- "You can't copy (with your ears) signals that are buried in the atmospheric noise, so why make that noise louder". 73, Don W3FPR On 4/28/2012 8:20 PM, Bob K6UJ wrote: > Guy, > Thanks for the info. > I think I have "afraid I wont be able to copy weak signal" fobia, hihi. > I need to experiment more with the RF gain and PRE and convince myself that that I am not sacrificing weak sig copy. > My problem lies in the space between the headphones, hihihihi > > Bob > K6UJ > > > > On Apr 28, 2012, at 4:58 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: > >> You only need set PRE/none/ATT and RF gain correctly. Many people seem to thing that RF gain at max all the time and PRE on all the time, for all bands all the time, is the normal setting. >> >> You can make this exact same error on a Ten-Tec Orion. PRE/ATT/RF gain need to be set for ambient noise with NO signal to be at a very moderate level. It is not at all uncommon on 160 and 80 for that to be ATT on and RF gain at two PM. My Yaesu MP dealt with that issue by deliberately making 160/80 insensitive so they would not receive reports of a noisy receiver. >> >> On your K3 you have the flexibility to use those on the low bands to supply preamplier gain for low output directional RX antennas. >> >> My TX antenna on 160 is ATT on, RF gain at noon, and phased loops-on-ground to NE on the second RX set to PRE on and RF gain at max. Works balanced and gang-busters on diversity, because the flexibility in the K3 allows me to equalize the noise levels in the antennas. There is no roaring noise coming out of the RX and NR does not really help for really weak CW signals. Narrow selectivity does better. >> >> 73, Guy. >> >> On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Bob K6UJ<[hidden email]> wrote: >> I have a Kenwood TS-590S for a back up to my K3 and it has a noticeably quieter background than the K3. >> I believe we should be able to address this with the NR in the K3, I'm still learning how to adjust the NR. >> >> >> Bob >> K6UJ >> >> >> >> On Apr 28, 2012, at 12:15 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: >> >>> I remember that my Kenwood 850 was quiet like that compared to my Yeasu 990. Possibly how the agc is handled by Kenwood? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 8:07 AM, "Bill"<[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> I have had my K3 for a couple of months - so I am still learning. >>>> >>>> At this point, my primary concern is the amount of background hiss that >>>> I have when no signals are being received. For example: When on 75 this >>>> AM I am listening to a local net. When no one is talking the background >>>> hiss rises. >>>> >>>> When I switch to my TS-480, signals are just as strong and everything is >>>> the same - EXCEPT there is nearly zero background hiss. I use the ATT on >>>> both rigs. I much prefer the near FM silence of the 480. >>>> >>>> I have already reduced it somewhat by use of the RX Equalizer. However, >>>> it needs a lot more reduction to get to what I feel is an acceptable >>>> level. Of note: I live in a rural area that has no background noise - >>>> daytime level on 75 meters is zero. >>>> >>>> Suggestions would be most appreciated. >>>> >>>> Bill W2BLC >>>> >>>> -- >>>> IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician) >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by vk4tux
*Adrian,
My experience with those settings are the same as yours. Works for me. 73's Gary * On 29 April 2012 10:06, Adrian <[hidden email]> wrote: > You guys are on the wrong track, NR is a waste of time on the K3 on SSB, > esp > low bands and attenuation ATT and/or RF gain reduction is way better to > keep > audio clarity whilst making noise transparent. Recommend; AGC threshold = 8 > AGC slope = 0. > > This white noise issue is fixed with N1EU pink noise roll-off settings; > > RX Eq settings Low to High audio band: 50 = +9 100= +5 200= +2 400=0 > 800=-2 1.6k=-3 2.4k=-5 3.2k=-10 > > Problem solved . > > Adrian ... vk4tux > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > -- Gary VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile Elecraft Equipment K3 #679, KPA-500 #018 Living the dream!!! ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
Bob, Guy is giving you a lot of good advice, and he has some serious operating skills behind him, so he knows what he is saying. Maybe you can think of it this way -- "You can't copy (with your ears) signals that are buried in the atmospheric noise, so why make that noise louder". 73, Don W3FPR Yes Guy's information to deal with noise is exactly how I run here, however the white noise issue is best fixed with the RX equaliser settings I gave earlier. If you did manage to read my post Bob and try those settings, then you will be pleasantly surprised and satisfied with the new mellow sound of your K3. Please note that this is reversible in case you think vk advice is worth little. Adrian ... vk4tux ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by vk4tux
My first thought was to change the EQ more like I have my TX eq set pulling the low end down and raising the high end up does tend to accent the high-end of speech for clarity on phone but on a quiet band makes the band noise sound hissy. I don't have my low end set up to the plus side as high nor the high end set as low on the negative side as N1EU but have went in this general direction to smooth out the band noise but in a very active round table I don't know if the noise tone is really that important in relation to good receive audio clarity. If you go too high on the plus side of the bottom end and too negative on the high end you can tend to use loose some signal clarity and get a little muddy. 73 de KE4WY Jim These work for me, CW or Phone: RX Eq settings Low to High audio band: 50 = +2 100= +2 200= +1 400= 0 800= -1 1.6k= -2 2.4k= -3 3.2k= -4 ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ ________________ -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Adrian Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 8:06 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - background hiss You guys are on the wrong track, NR is a waste of time on the K3 on SSB, esp low bands and attenuation ATT and/or RF gain reduction is way better to keep audio clarity whilst making noise transparent. Recommend; AGC threshold = 8 AGC slope = 0. This white noise issue is fixed with N1EU pink noise roll-off settings; RX Eq settings Low to High audio band: 50 = +9 100= +5 200= +2 400=0 800=-2 1.6k=-3 2.4k=-5 3.2k=-10 Problem solved . Adrian ... vk4tux ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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While tweaking the rx EQ may help mask the problem I feel the root cause
is that the AGC operates at too low a signal level. I like to set my RF gain at a level where I can hear what I want but not the band noise. If I then engage the AGC it has the effect of increasing the gain by 2 or three S points increasing background band noise by the same amount. Or put another way, the same as increasing the RF gain control by 15 - 20 degrees of arc. It is not receiver generated noise. My receiver is fabulously quiet with the AGC off. 73 John G3XRJ > > My first thought was to change the EQ more like I have my TX eq set pulling > the low end down and raising the high end up does tend to accent the > high-end of speech for clarity on phone but on a quiet band makes the band > noise sound hissy. > > I don't have my low end set up to the plus side as high nor the high end set > as low on the negative side as N1EU but have went in this general direction > to smooth out the band noise but in a very active round table I don't know > if the noise tone is really that important in relation to good receive audio > clarity. If you go too high on the plus side of the bottom end and too > negative on the high end you can tend to use loose some signal clarity and > get a little muddy. > > > > 73 de KE4WY Jim > > These work for me, CW or Phone: > > RX Eq settings Low to High audio band: > 50 = +2 > 100= +2 > 200= +1 > 400= 0 > 800= -1 > 1.6k= -2 > 2.4k= -3 > 3.2k= -4 > ____________________________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Yup. Great big clue there :>) 73, Guy.
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 1:19 PM, John Chappell G3XRJ <[hidden email]> wrote: > My receiver is fabulously quiet with the AGC off. > > 73 John G3XRJ > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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