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K3 birdies

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Eugeni - EA3QP

K3 birdies

I'm hearing birdies in the following frequencies:

28.443
21.273,1
14.186.6 (the most important one with s3)
7.068.5
3.583,2/3.786.0

Also I've done the VCO calibration but the birdies in main and
sub.receiver remains.

S/N: 38xx.

Anybody has the same birdies, any advice to fix it?.

Advanced thanks

Eugeni - EA3QP
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n7ws

Re: K3 birdies

I have:

28.443 - (S3)
21.273 - (S4)
7.0685 +/- (S7)
3.580 + (S4)

Wes N7WS

--- On Mon, 4/19/10, Eugeni - EA3QP <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Eugeni - EA3QP <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 birdies
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Monday, April 19, 2010, 12:19 PM
> I'm hearing birdies in the following
> frequencies:
>
> 28.443
> 21.273,1
> 14.186.6 (the most important one with s3)
> 7.068.5
> 3.583,2/3.786.0
>
> Also I've done the VCO calibration but the birdies in main
> and
> sub.receiver remains.
>
> S/N: 38xx.
>
> Anybody has the same birdies, any advice to fix it?.
>
> Advanced thanks
>
> Eugeni - EA3QP
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Mike K2MK

Re: K3 birdies

In reply to this post by Eugeni - EA3QP

Hi Eugeni:

You can reduce and sometimes remove birdies just by moving the black shielded cables around inside the radio. Remove the top cover, turn on the power, tune the radio to a birdie, move the cables. I used some tape to hold the longer cables in position once I found a good spot.

I personally do not like the software solution that was also suggested. It leaves holes in the audio as you tune across the band.

73,
Mike K2MK

Eugeni - EA3QP wrote

I'm hearing birdies in the following frequencies:

28.443
21.273,1
14.186.6 (the most important one with s3)
7.068.5
3.583,2/3.786.0

Also I've done the VCO calibration but the birdies in main and
sub.receiver remains.

S/N: 38xx.

Anybody has the same birdies, any advice to fix it?.

Advanced thanks

Eugeni - EA3QP
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lstavenhagen

Re: K3 birdies

In reply to this post by n7ws

I can only reproduce the birdie on 80M (and there are actually two very close together, one of which turns on as you tune up the band and then off as you go down. They're at about S2 or 3).
But I have very few options installed, the KAT3 and one extra roofing filter and that's it. Maybe these come in with other options like the second RX?

Heaven compared to my 706MKIIG which has birdies all over the place, hi hi....

Mine is K3 #4116.

73,
LS
W5QD

W8JI

Re: K3 birdies

My K3 with the second receiver does not seem to have these
problems either.

----- Original Message -----
From: "lstavenhagen" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 birdies

I can only reproduce the birdie on 80M (and there are
actually two very close
together, one of which turns on as you tune up the band and
then off as you
go down. They're at about S2 or 3).
But I have very few options installed, the KAT3 and one
extra roofing filter
and that's it. Maybe these come in with other options like
the second RX?

Heaven compared to my 706MKIIG which has birdies all over
the place, hi
hi....

Mine is K3 #4116.

73,
LS
W5QD
--
View this message in context:
http://n2.nabble.com/K3-birdies-tp4927074p4931258.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Guy, K2AV

Re: K3 birdies

Routing the cables when adding the second RX was very tricky and
caused birdies to appear and disappear while being moved around.
Though it is an added cost, a premade wiring harness to enforce a
tested good routing would be useful.

Or perhaps if there was an actual size template of a wiring harness to
be assembled as part of the kit, with some pre-printed stickers to put
on the cables.

Precise routing is fairly left to chance as currently implemented.

I also hear far less birdies (next to none relatively) tuning across
the band in CW, vs. SSB.

To be fair, most birdies are buried in a busy band without effect, and
require a dead band to hear them. In mine there were three that were
obnoxious enough to bother killing them with the menu device. I do
NOT experience related audio gaps as reported by some others. I DO
get gaps if I overcorrect.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Tom W8JI <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My K3 with the second receiver does not seem to have these
> problems either.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lstavenhagen" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 birdies
>
>
>
> I can only reproduce the birdie on 80M (and there are
> actually two very close
> together, one of which turns on as you tune up the band and
> then off as you
> go down. They're at about S2 or 3).
> But I have very few options installed, the KAT3 and one
> extra roofing filter
> and that's it. Maybe these come in with other options like
> the second RX?
>
> Heaven compared to my 706MKIIG which has birdies all over
> the place, hi
> hi....
>
> Mine is K3 #4116.
>
> 73,
> LS
> W5QD
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/K3-birdies-tp4927074p4931258.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: A known bad url was replaced by VIPRE
> Please help support this email list: A known bad url was
> replaced by VIPRE
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>

W8JI

Re: K3 birdies

<<
Routing the cables when adding the second RX was very tricky
and
caused birdies to appear and disappear while being moved
around.
Though it is an added cost, a premade wiring harness to
enforce a
tested good routing would be useful.>>

If that is a problem, then maybe a better solution would be
a few ferrite beads over certain cables or some better
grounding?

I assume it is the coaxial cables that affect the birdies?

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David Gilbert

Re: K3 birdies

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

When I built my K3 (with the 2nd receiver) well over a year ago I had
lots of birdies between on most of the bands, although very few on 80m.
With a dummy load on the antenna port, I logged any birdie S2 or greater
(I have a really low noise level at this QTH) and then monitored them
all (yes, all of them) as I played around with various cable positions.
It soon became obvious that eliminating one birdie often strongly
accentuated a different one, so I spent a lot of time trying to find a
decent middle ground and then did my best to hold the cables in those
positions with cable ties and tape. The SIG RMV software fix that came
out a few weeks later was a remarkably innovative godsend and totally
fixed any remaining issues.

I tried some out-of-the box methods to reduce the birdies before the
software fix came out. One was to buy a sheet of anti-static material
(carbon impregnated foam), cut it into sections that fit into sandwich
baggies, connect a wire to each of them that could be grounded to the
case inside the K3, and position them around the various cables. The
idea was to create some sort of lossy shielding to reduce the coupling.
It actually helped a bit, but it made a large difference where I
connected the wires to ground (understandable since the wire now also
act as antennas) and the overall improvement wasn't worth the hassle.

By the way, the 2nd receiver is FAR better shielded and I could find
only a couple of very weak birdies on it, while I had thirty or more S2
or above (roughly half of which were S3 and about four at S4) on the
main receiver. Since I assembled everything before checking for birdies
I never did a comparison of main receiver birdies with and without the
2nd receiver installed, but based upon my experience with various cable
placements it is my strong belief that having the 2nd receiver installed
makes the birdies worse in the main receiver, presumably because the
shield of the 2nd receiver creates more coupling between the cables
behind the front panel.

I still have a couple of birdies on certain frequencies that I never use
and haven't bothered with, and as might be expected they are STRONGLY
microphonic. Tapping on the case while listening to them can be almost
startling. It always made me wonder what the transmitted signal would
sound like on the birdie frequencies if the rig was "physically
modulated" by other gear on the desk, or even through the air, but I
haven't walked myself through the frequency chain to see if it would
even be relevant.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 4/20/2010 8:26 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> Routing the cables when adding the second RX was very tricky and
> caused birdies to appear and disappear while being moved around.
> Though it is an added cost, a premade wiring harness to enforce a
> tested good routing would be useful.
>
> Or perhaps if there was an actual size template of a wiring harness to
> be assembled as part of the kit, with some pre-printed stickers to put
> on the cables.
>
> Precise routing is fairly left to chance as currently implemented.
>
> I also hear far less birdies (next to none relatively) tuning across
> the band in CW, vs. SSB.
>
> To be fair, most birdies are buried in a busy band without effect, and
> require a dead band to hear them. In mine there were three that were
> obnoxious enough to bother killing them with the menu device. I do
> NOT experience related audio gaps as reported by some others. I DO
> get gaps if I overcorrect.
>
> 73, Guy.

py5eg

RES: K3 birdies

In reply to this post by Eugeni - EA3QP

Hi Guys:
I do have 4(tour) K3 and I really don´t understand why Elecraft is not taking care of it.
This is (my opinion) ridiculous!!!
Everyone is making serious comments on this issue and no effective actions???

Oms PY5EG

-----Mensagem original-----
De: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Em nome de Guy Olinger K2AV
Enviada em: terça-feira, 20 de abril de 2010 12:27
Para: Tom W8JI
Cc: [hidden email]; lstavenhagen
Assunto: Re: [Elecraft] K3 birdies

Routing the cables when adding the second RX was very tricky and
caused birdies to appear and disappear while being moved around.
Though it is an added cost, a premade wiring harness to enforce a
tested good routing would be useful.

Or perhaps if there was an actual size template of a wiring harness to
be assembled as part of the kit, with some pre-printed stickers to put
on the cables.

Precise routing is fairly left to chance as currently implemented.

I also hear far less birdies (next to none relatively) tuning across
the band in CW, vs. SSB.

To be fair, most birdies are buried in a busy band without effect, and
require a dead band to hear them. In mine there were three that were
obnoxious enough to bother killing them with the menu device. I do
NOT experience related audio gaps as reported by some others. I DO
get gaps if I overcorrect.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Tom W8JI <[hidden email]> wrote:

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Dale - K7DNH

Re: K3 birdies

In reply to this post by Eugeni - EA3QP

ok - please dont laugh - on second thought I guess this may be somewhat amusing to many of you...

I'm somewhat new to ham radio - and having no "elmer" around -

what exactly does a amatuer radio "birdie" sound like?? I have an idea ... but there are a lot of different sounds "real feathered birdies" make - so I am kind of at a loss to what I may be trying to listen for exactly - and I have searched the web trying to find a sound bite of one to no avail.

I may have them in my radio also - but since I can get all sorts of weird noises at different times on different bands - (especially the ones that sounds like a '60's era television flying saucer is coming in for a landing is always interesting to listen to for a minute) - I really never thought that it was in the radio - just something normally "out there" sometimes.

Anyone know where I can download the darn sound so I know what the heck it is??

Now stop chuckling!!

Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO

Re: K3 birdies

LOL

It just sounds like a carrier wave, Dale -- a tone that changes audio
frequency as you tune through it.

There are two definitions of "birdie" in ham radio lingo. The definition
being used here means a signal that is being generated INSIDE the receiver.
In other words, if you disconnect the antenna, you still hear it.
Superheterodyne receivers equipped with microprocessors generate a lot of
different signals internally, and it's virtually impossible to keep some of
them from mixing together to put a "signal" where you don't want it: in the
middle of a ham band. Receiver designers simply try to minimize this
occurrence by applying good RF engineering practices.

The other definition often used is simply broader: any signal (carrier)
picked up by your receiver from outside that is not an actual, intentional
communications signal. Can be generated by computer equipment, consumer
electronics, and other "unintentional radiators." Mostly these are of
concern to weak-signal VHF/UHF operators who are listening for signals at or
below the noise floor -- i.e., in the sub-microvolt range -- where any tiny
little "birdie" of this sort in the wrong place can wreak havoc.

Bill W5WVO

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Dale Harding K7DNH" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:43 PM
To: <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 birdies

>
> ok - please dont laugh - on second thought I guess this may be somewhat
> amusing to many of you...
>
> I'm somewhat new to ham radio - and having no "elmer" around -
>
> what exactly does a amatuer radio "birdie" sound like?? I have an idea
> ...
> but there are a lot of different sounds "real feathered birdies" make - so
> I
> am kind of at a loss to what I may be trying to listen for exactly - and I
> have searched the web trying to find a sound bite of one to no avail.
>
> I may have them in my radio also - but since I can get all sorts of weird
> noises at different times on different bands - (especially the ones that
> sounds like a '60's era television flying saucer is coming in for a
> landing
> is always interesting to listen to for a minute) - I really never thought
> that it was in the radio - just something normally "out there"
> sometimes.
>
> Anyone know where I can download the darn sound so I know what the heck it
> is??
>
> Now stop chuckling!!
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/K3-birdies-tp4927074p4934852.html
> Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

-.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-

Re: K3 birdies

In reply to this post by Eugeni - EA3QP

Here are my Birdies-

28.441.55
28.447.18
28.541.60
28.554.2
29.279.4 real strong s-7
50.396.0
50.630.0
52.449.0
52.795.18
21.274.3
14.281.2

I only listed the birdies on the ham bands but there are more birdies when you listen to the general coverage receiver.

lstavenhagen

Re: K3 birdies

I can't reproduce any of these either, except one or two on 6 meters in between the freqs. listed. (52.827 and one other one I didn't record).

Please don't be offended at my suggesting this, but are ya'll sure these are really birdies and not external interference from other devices like computers and etc.? My laptop injects all kinds of garbage, some of which masquerade as birdies really well......
There's also the caution in the builder's manual about making sure the various panels are electrically connecting properly otherwise birdies can be produced.

6 meters, in fact, is the only band I've found in-band birdies on mine, if I recall correctly. But I havn't really extensively listened for them on HF, so I could still be missing some.

73,
LS
W5QD

S Sacco

Re: K3 birdies

In reply to this post by -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-

Any chance these could be coming from an outside source, such as a router?

73,
Steve
NN4X

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 3:28 AM, -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Here are my Birdies-
>
> 28.441.55
> 28.447.18
> 28.541.60
> 28.554.2
> 29.279.4 real strong s-7
> 50.396.0
> 50.630.0
> 52.449.0
> 52.795.18
> 21.274.3
> 14.281.2
>
> I only listed the birdies on the ham bands but there are more birdies when
> you listen to the general coverage receiver.
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-birdies-tp4927074p4957682.html
> Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

n7ws

Re: K3 birdies

In reply to this post by lstavenhagen

Because you can or cannot reproduce birdies in your particular K3 means only that your K3 is different from every other K3.

Frankly, considering the construction, the almost total lack of shielding and the the amount of digital cra---stuff---in the K3 it is remarkable that there aren't more birdies.

Most of the ones that I have (that are the same as some listed earlier) are easily identified as birdies because they either are "fast tuning" or tune in the reverse direction (or both).

They are definitely "real" and are generated inside the box.

Wes N7WS

--- On Sun, 4/25/10, lstavenhagen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: lstavenhagen <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 birdies
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Sunday, April 25, 2010, 8:37 AM
>
> I can't reproduce any of these either, except one or two on
> 6 meters in
> between the freqs. listed. (52.827 and one other one I
> didn't record).
>
> Please don't be offended at my suggesting this, but are
> ya'll sure these are
> really birdies and not external interference from other
> devices like
> computers and etc.? My laptop injects all kinds of garbage,
> some of which
> masquerade as birdies really well......
> There's also the caution in the builder's manual about
> making sure the
> various panels are electrically connecting properly
> otherwise birdies can be
> produced.
>
> 6 meters, in fact, is the only band I've found in-band
> birdies on mine, if I
> recall correctly. But I havn't really extensively listened
> for them on HF,
> so I could still be missing some.
>
> 73,
> LS
> W5QD

lstavenhagen

Re: K3 birdies

Ok, was just curious. And yes I agree, I'm surprised at how few I've found given all the digital stuff in it. I used to have an FT-900 which made so much digital hash noise everywhere, it was useless for mobile/portable ops (the reason I'd bought it). There was a loud hash when tuning that was even audible (just above the noise floor) with a dummy load connected. I sold it pretty quick.

My 706MKIIG does this too tho not quite as bad. But I still have to keep the antenna a good ways away from the rig. And talk about birdies.......

But there's no encoder or other digital hash noise I can detect at all with my K3. But I still havn't carefully scanned all the bands for birdies yet, tho, so there may still be some others. But so far Im pleased at how quiet and birdie-free it is.....

73,
LS
W5QD

-.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-

RE: K3 birdies

In reply to this post by S Sacco

No, I hear them when the coax is unplugged on the A/B antenna switch. I've also shut down the router and modem to see if it was coming from there.

Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 07:59:44 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: K3 birdies

Any chance these could be coming from an outside source, such as a router?

73,
Steve
NN4X

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 3:28 AM, -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-
<[hidden email]> wrote:

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