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[K3] decisions, decisions

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Pierfrancesco Caci

[K3] decisions, decisions

Finally having enough money to get a K3, but not enough to get all the
options I'd like to have from the start, I need to decide what to get.
I've read many comments on this mailing list that suggest not to do away
with the ATU, for a variety of reasons, so I'll get that.
I would like to know how important is the PR6, I like 6m and it's the
only band for which I have a decent antenna (a 5el yagi).
My activity is a mix of dx chasing, some contesting without
sweating it too much and the occasional random qso. Mostly cw/digimodes
lately due to small kid and screaming into a microphone not mixing well :-)
So I would also like to know how important is to get one extra roofing
filter (maybe a 500Hz one) from the beginning, or if I can do without
that for the next few months until I can spare some more money for the
hobby and get a round of upgrades.
I'm also considering going for the k3/10 and get the filters/preamp
instead of the k3/100 without the options, if it would give me better
results.

I'll appreciate your suggestions

Pf, ik5pvx

--
Pierfrancesco Caci
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John Ragle

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

Pf...

The ATU is a superior add-on, and a good choice for HF operation.
Regarding the PR6, at my location, the preamp was needed to bring the
antenna noise up to the noise floor of the receiver. That is, prior to
installation of the PR6, it was difficult to tell the noise level with
the antenna disconnected from that with the antenna connected, but with
the PR6 there is a substantial difference, and now I am sure I am
hearing "antenna" noise.

Regarding the extra filter and digimodes, my K3 does have the 2.7, 1.0,
and 0.5 filters installed, but I never use the narrower filters on PSK.
The software itself effectively eliminates normal adjacent-channel
interference, and nothing will eliminate the splatter of the occasional
PSK operators who push things 'way too hard.

The 500 Hz filter is sometimes useful on CW. I do not have much
experience using BPSK31 on 6 meters, but Contestia should work well, at
least according to the most recent QST. BTW the latter is much less
conservative of bandwidth than BPSK31, but that should not be a
consideration on 6 meters. JT65-HF is a good choice if all you want are
"hello/goodbye" QSOs.

If I were doing things over again, I would again definitely get the
K3/100, the PR6, and the ATU, in that order of priority. If your
5-element Yagi is well matched, you may not need the ATU. I have the ATU
and use it on HF, but don't use it for 6 meters. I carefully adjusted
the matching "transformer" at the beam, using a VNI at the TX end (my K3
is feeding a 350 watt amp with no SWR protection, so the ATU would be
useless anyway, as the K3 is looking into the amplifier input not the
antenna).

Good luck!

John Ragle -- W1ZI

=====

On 3/13/2011 5:44 AM, Pierfrancesco Caci wrote:

> Finally having enough money to get a K3, but not enough to get all the
> options I'd like to have from the start, I need to decide what to get.
> I've read many comments on this mailing list that suggest not to do away
> with the ATU, for a variety of reasons, so I'll get that.
> I would like to know how important is the PR6, I like 6m and it's the
> only band for which I have a decent antenna (a 5el yagi).
> My activity is a mix of dx chasing, some contesting without
> sweating it too much and the occasional random qso. Mostly cw/digimodes
> lately due to small kid and screaming into a microphone not mixing well :-)
> So I would also like to know how important is to get one extra roofing
> filter (maybe a 500Hz one) from the beginning, or if I can do without
> that for the next few months until I can spare some more money for the
> hobby and get a round of upgrades.
> I'm also considering going for the k3/10 and get the filters/preamp
> instead of the k3/100 without the options, if it would give me better
> results.
>
> I'll appreciate your suggestions
>
> Pf, ik5pvx
>
>
>
>

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Gary Gregory

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

*Pf,

I agree with John with the following:

The 2.7Khz standard filter is fine for all modes other than FM/AM.

TThe reason for the 500Hz roofer is to create a brick wall to adjacent hi
signal QRM. If your location is relatively quiet in this regard then you can
do without it and use the excellent DSP provided by the K3.

I would not go for the K3/10 but if you have a manual tuner and are happy
using that then you could forego the ATU for now.

John is correct (from my experience) in that the digital modes don't really
need the roofer unless as he said you hear a wide signal.

The PR-6 is a good investment for you if you like 6M.

Hope it all comes together for you.

73's
Gary
*
On 13 March 2011 21:39, John Ragle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Pf...
>
> The ATU is a superior add-on, and a good choice for HF operation.
> Regarding the PR6, at my location, the preamp was needed to bring the
> antenna noise up to the noise floor of the receiver. That is, prior to
> installation of the PR6, it was difficult to tell the noise level with
> the antenna disconnected from that with the antenna connected, but with
> the PR6 there is a substantial difference, and now I am sure I am
> hearing "antenna" noise.
>
> Regarding the extra filter and digimodes, my K3 does have the 2.7, 1.0,
> and 0.5 filters installed, but I never use the narrower filters on PSK.
> The software itself effectively eliminates normal adjacent-channel
> interference, and nothing will eliminate the splatter of the occasional
> PSK operators who push things 'way too hard.
>
> The 500 Hz filter is sometimes useful on CW. I do not have much
> experience using BPSK31 on 6 meters, but Contestia should work well, at
> least according to the most recent QST. BTW the latter is much less
> conservative of bandwidth than BPSK31, but that should not be a
> consideration on 6 meters. JT65-HF is a good choice if all you want are
> "hello/goodbye" QSOs.
>
> If I were doing things over again, I would again definitely get the
> K3/100, the PR6, and the ATU, in that order of priority. If your
> 5-element Yagi is well matched, you may not need the ATU. I have the ATU
> and use it on HF, but don't use it for 6 meters. I carefully adjusted
> the matching "transformer" at the beam, using a VNI at the TX end (my K3
> is feeding a 350 watt amp with no SWR protection, so the ATU would be
> useless anyway, as the K3 is looking into the amplifier input not the
> antenna).
>
> Good luck!
>
> John Ragle -- W1ZI
>
> =====
>
> On 3/13/2011 5:44 AM, Pierfrancesco Caci wrote:
> > Finally having enough money to get a K3, but not enough to get all the
> > options I'd like to have from the start, I need to decide what to get.
> > I've read many comments on this mailing list that suggest not to do away
> > with the ATU, for a variety of reasons, so I'll get that.
> > I would like to know how important is the PR6, I like 6m and it's the
> > only band for which I have a decent antenna (a 5el yagi).
> > My activity is a mix of dx chasing, some contesting without
> > sweating it too much and the occasional random qso. Mostly cw/digimodes
> > lately due to small kid and screaming into a microphone not mixing well
> :-)
> > So I would also like to know how important is to get one extra roofing
> > filter (maybe a 500Hz one) from the beginning, or if I can do without
> > that for the next few months until I can spare some more money for the
> > hobby and get a round of upgrades.
> > I'm also considering going for the k3/10 and get the filters/preamp
> > instead of the k3/100 without the options, if it would give me better
> > results.
> >
> > I'll appreciate your suggestions
> >
> > Pf, ik5pvx
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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--

*VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
Elecraft Equipment
K3 #679, KPA-500 #018
Living the dream!!!*
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Brendan Minish

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

On 13/03/2011 12:07, Gary Gregory wrote:
> The PR-6 is a good investment for you if you like 6M.

the PR-6 is excellent if you are in a quiet location but if you are
currently limited on 6m by external noise then the PR6 won't help.
On the other hand if your location is quiet then with the PR6 you will
hear down to the band noise floor

--
73
Brendan EI6IZ
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John Ragle

Re: PR6 & prior posts re [K3] decisions, decisions

A while back there was list discussion about small, pre-bent, rigid coax
with m-SMA connectors on the ends. One would have to dig back in the
archives for the reference. They are very inexpensive, probably a
surplus buy-up of some government procurement mistake.

SMA to BNC adapters are easy to find.

Because of the way that the PR6 mounts with just straight-thru m-BNC to
m-BNC adapters, I used these rigid lines to bring the PR6 up and onto
the left rear of my K3. No re-bending of the rigid lines is needed, and
this gets the PR6 and its connections up out of the jungle of the rear
K3 connections (in my case, 3 lines from the SignaLink, 3 antenna lines,
a COM connection, and a connection to my XV144, along with the paddles
and power. Noodles to say, I am not using the extra antenna connections
on the PR6.)

And, yes, I am in a very quiet location, thanks to Gaia. Unfortunately
it has the propagation/reception properties of the interior of the
Homestake Mine. Nevertheless, I would like to see more (much more)
digital operation on 6 meters (this includes CW, of course, the ultimate
digital mode).

John Ragle -- W1ZI

=====

On 3/13/2011 8:37 AM, Brendan Minish wrote:
> On 13/03/2011 12:07, Gary Gregory wrote:
>> The PR-6 is a good investment for you...
> the PR-6 is excellent if you are in a quiet location...

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n7ws

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

In reply to this post by Pierfrancesco Caci

I would get a K3/100 as the basic radio. If you are at all serious about six-meters, then the PR6, or a HB alternative, and the KXV3A are an absolute must.

For CW/digital modes, I went with the 400Hz filter, a good compromise. The K3 has turned me into an RTTY op, something I had never done in 50+ years of ham radio, so I think this was worthwhile. I do the PSK modes only in the chase for a new DXCC country (Note to PSK ops: if I want to know your dog's name, I'll ask) and the narrow BW is preferred there too IMHO.

The ATU might be important to you, but that depends on your antenna situation. Antennas matched at the feedpoint are always preferred anyway and don't cost 300 USD.

So except for the regrettable need for a six-meter preamp, a basic K3/100 would potentially be all you need for a decent start. Add one narrow filter as money permits and go from there.

Wes N7WS

--- On Sun, 3/13/11, Pierfrancesco Caci <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Finally having enough money to get a K3, but not enough to
> get all the
> options I'd like to have from the start, I need to decide
> what to get.
> I've read many comments on this mailing list that suggest
> not to do away
> with the ATU, for a variety of reasons, so I'll get that.
> I would like to know how important is the PR6, I like 6m
> and it's the
> only band for which I have a decent antenna (a 5el yagi).
> My activity is a mix of dx chasing, some contesting
> without
> sweating it too much and the occasional random qso. Mostly
> cw/digimodes
> lately due to small kid and screaming into a microphone not
> mixing well :-)
> So I would also like to know how important is to get one
> extra roofing
> filter (maybe a 500Hz one) from the beginning, or if I can
> do without
> that for the next few months until I can spare some more
> money for the
> hobby and get a round of upgrades.
> I'm also considering going for the k3/10 and get the
> filters/preamp
> instead of the k3/100 without the options, if it would give
> me better
> results.
>
> I'll appreciate your suggestions
>
> Pf, ik5pvx
>
>
>
>
> --
> Pierfrancesco Caci

Pierfrancesco Caci

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

>>>>> "Wes" == Wes Stewart <[hidden email]> writes:

Wes> I would get a K3/100 as the basic radio. If you are at all
Wes> serious about six-meters, then the PR6, or a HB alternative,
Wes> and the KXV3A are an absolute must. For CW/digital modes, I

Wes, you mail made me realize I was doing a mistake. The PR6 needs the
KXV3, so I have to rule that out on a (not enough) money basis.

Wes> The ATU might be important to you, but that depends on your
Wes> antenna situation. Antennas matched at the feedpoint are always
Wes> preferred anyway and don't cost 300 USD.

I also have a cg3000, so the main reason I was thinking about the ATU is
the second antenna input.

Wes> start. Add one narrow filter as money permits and go from
Wes> there.

I have a few days more to ponder this before my travel. Thank you and
all the other who answered so far.

Pf

--
Pierfrancesco Caci, ik5pvx
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AC7AC

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

John Ragle

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

Just because one's plumbing has a "Hot" faucet doesn't mean one has to
use only it. I typically run my K3 at 35 to 40 watts, with about 20
watts on 6 meters, because that is what it takes to drive my 6 meter
amp, when needed.

John Ragle -- W1ZI

=====

On 3/13/2011 12:41 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> I'm not surprised by the repeated comments to include the KPA3 in your
> initial purchase so you can run 100 watts. For all of those Hams who run 100
> watts (likely the majority these days), the drop in signal strength caused
> by running 10 watts - about 1 or 1-1/2 S-unit - is very undesirable, just as
> those who routinely run the legal limit can't understand why anyone would
> willingly run only 100 watts.
>
> There's probably no more personal and subjective decision in one's station
> than what power level is required.
>
> What's indisputable is that you can make a lot of contacts, including DX
> contacts, running 10 watts when the bands are open and even the legal-limit
> operators have a hard time when conditions are bad.
>
> Personally, when forced to choose, I'll chose receiver performance over
> transmit power every time.
>
> Whatever you chose, Pf, you'll have a lot of fun with the K3.
>
> 73,
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

In reply to this post by Pierfrancesco Caci

On 3/13/2011 8:57 AM, Pierfrancesco Caci wrote:
> I also have a cg3000, so the main reason I was thinking about the ATU is
> the second antenna input

That's not a good enough reason to buy the ATU. It IS a good ATU
though. As Wes noted, it really depends on your station. I bought the
ATU, but rarely use it, first because I usually run a power amp, and
second because I have several very good antenna tuners, each of which
has very good antenna switching ahead of the tuner (I use the Ten Tec
229 and 238 tuners).

As to the 6M preamp -- yes, it's important if you work 6M from a
reasonably quiet QTH, but it's easy to add later, and 6M isn't open
miuch of the time. :) I like to work 6M when it's open, and the K3 is
great on 6M. So the preamp is one thing I'd wait for.

Even if you don't plan to use the K3 with transverters, you need the
KXV3 to hook up an external RX antenna (like a Beverage or K9AY loop).
This is a big deal if you hope to work DX on 160M or 80M.

As to roofing filters -- the K3 works VERY well with only the stock 2.7
kHz filter as a roofing filter. You only need the more narrow roofing
filters for contest situations, and perhaps for massive DX pileups.

So my list of priorities would be 1) K3/100 with 2.7 kHz filter; 2) KXV3
ONLY if you have an external antenna to hook up or want to use the PR6;
3) PR6 if you have the KXV3, are serious about 6M, and don't hear the
noise increase on 6M when you connect an antenna;. 4) ATU if you need it
in your station (and maybe a higher priority, depending on your station
5) IF you're a serious DXer, the 2nd RX or the P3 should be next on your
list. Both let you see/hear the pileup. If you're a serious contester,
the P3 is probably more useful than the second RX!

IF you're a contester, you'll want roofing filters for the modes you
operate. 250 Hz or 400 Hz is what you want for CW, PSK, and RTTY, and
1.8 kHz or 2.1 kHz for SSB.

You should DEFINITELY buy you K3 as a kit. That saves about 15% of the
cost, letting you buy more options, and burns about 10 hours of your
time. Once you do that, you'll realize how easy it is to add any of the
options later on.

The 2nd Rx is a real shoehorn job (that is, a real tight fit) and you
must remove it to add even the simplest of options (like a roofing
filter), so it makes ANY option much more difficult to add later. It can
be done, but you'll curse a lot. :) For that reason, I strongly
recommend that it be the last thing you add to the inside of the K3.

73, Jim K9YC
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Jim Brown-10

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

In reply to this post by John Ragle

On 3/13/2011 9:52 AM, John Ragle wrote:
> I typically run my K3 at 35 to 40 watts, with about 20
> watts on 6 meters, because that is what it takes to drive my 6 meter
> amp, when needed.

Yes. Most of the better ham power amps can be driven to at least
250-350W with the output of a barefoot K2 or K3. (the limit on power
gain is set in FCC Rules) If you already have a power amp, it's quite
reasonable to put off buying the 100W output stage.

73, Jim K9YC
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Mike Reublin

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

In reply to this post by Pierfrancesco Caci

Whatever choice(s) you make on your initial purchase will get you some fantastic
gear, and you don't have to regret any of those choices, because later you can always
change them. And that's the greatest choice the K3 gives us

Enjoy!

73, Mike NF4L

On 3/13/2011 5:44 AM, Pierfrancesco Caci wrote:

Guy, K2AV

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

As to including the ATU in an initial K3 order, think Field Day. The K3 is
becoming a premier and most wanted FD rig because of its excellent immunity
to nearby rigs (within reason), excellent portability, and
contest-worthiness. Having the ATU means you can go multiband on antennas
because you can tune them up with the ATU.

We did this with last year's N4A NC Core Banks DXpedition class IOTA entry.
Field day on the beach, but working the world. When there is nothing but
guyed push-up poles available to support antennas, and you had to drag
everything out with you on the ferry, then efficient tuning of non-resonant
multiband antennas is important.

73, Guy.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Mike <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Whatever choice(s) you make on your initial purchase will get you some
> fantastic
> gear, and you don't have to regret any of those choices, because later you
> can always
> change them. And that's the greatest choice the K3 gives us
>
> Enjoy!
>
> 73, Mike NF4L
>
> On 3/13/2011 5:44 AM, Pierfrancesco Caci wrote:
> > Finally having enough money to get a K3, but not enough to get all the
> > options I'd like to have from the start, I need to decide what to get.
> > I've read many comments on this mailing list that suggest not to do away
> > with the ATU, for a variety of reasons, so I'll get that.
> > I would like to know how important is the PR6, I like 6m and it's the
> > only band for which I have a decent antenna (a 5el yagi).
> > My activity is a mix of dx chasing, some contesting without
> > sweating it too much and the occasional random qso. Mostly cw/digimodes
> > lately due to small kid and screaming into a microphone not mixing well
> :-)
> > So I would also like to know how important is to get one extra roofing
> > filter (maybe a 500Hz one) from the beginning, or if I can do without
> > that for the next few months until I can spare some more money for the
> > hobby and get a round of upgrades.
> > I'm also considering going for the k3/10 and get the filters/preamp
> > instead of the k3/100 without the options, if it would give me better
> > results.
> >
> > I'll appreciate your suggestions
> >
> > Pf, ik5pvx
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

Ross Primrose N4RP

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

In reply to this post by Pierfrancesco Caci

On 3/13/2011 11:57 AM, Pierfrancesco Caci wrote:
>
> Wes, you mail made me realize I was doing a mistake. The PR6 needs the
> KXV3, so I have to rule that out on a (not enough) money basis.
>

The PR6 does NOT need the KXV3, but can pass the transverter functions
trough. The PR6 can be used with any 6M radio...

73, Ross N4RP

--
FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.”

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Oliver Dröse

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

>> Wes, you mail made me realize I was doing a mistake. The PR6 needs
>> the KXV3, so I have to rule that out on a (not enough) money basis.
>
>
>The PR6 does NOT need the KXV3, but can pass the transverter functions
> trough. The PR6 can be used with any 6M radio...

Only if those "any" radios provide a break in the RX path like the K3 does!
There are not many. Otherwise you'll need two bypass relays to take it out of
line when transmitting if you want to put it up front the radio's antenna input.

73, Olli - DH8BQA

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n7ws

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

In reply to this post by Ross Primrose N4RP

I suppose that is technically correct, if you use it with a 15-watt radio or external T/R switching.

--- On Tue, 3/15/11, Ross Primrose N4RP <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 3/13/2011 11:57 AM, Pierfrancesco
> Caci wrote:
> >
> > Wes, you mail made me realize I was doing a mistake.
> The PR6 needs the
> > KXV3, so I have to rule that out on a (not enough)
> money basis.
> >
>
> The PR6 does NOT need the KXV3, but can pass the
> transverter functions
> trough. The PR6 can be used with any 6M radio...
>
> 73, Ross N4RP

Ross Primrose N4RP

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

From http://www.elecraft.com/PR6/pr6.htm :

"The PR6 is a high-performance, low-noise 6-meter preamp that can be
used with the Elecraft K3 and most other 6- meter capable transceivers. "

If it's not accurate, I'm not the guy you need to tell...

73, Ross N4RP

On 3/15/2011 4:24 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> I suppose that is technically correct, if you use it with a 15-watt radio or external T/R switching.
>
> --- On Tue, 3/15/11, Ross Primrose N4RP<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> On 3/13/2011 11:57 AM, Pierfrancesco
>> Caci wrote:
>>> Wes, you mail made me realize I was doing a mistake.
>> The PR6 needs the
>>> KXV3, so I have to rule that out on a (not enough)
>> money basis.
>> The PR6 does NOT need the KXV3, but can pass the
>> transverter functions
>> trough. The PR6 can be used with any 6M radio...
>>
>> 73, Ross N4RP
>
>

--
FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.”

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n7ws

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/PR6%20Owners%20Manual%20Rev%20A.pdf

Page 3, second bullet.

--- On Tue, 3/15/11, Ross Primrose N4RP <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From http://www.elecraft.com/PR6/pr6.htm :
>
> "The PR6 is a high-performance, low-noise 6-meter preamp
> that can be
> used with the Elecraft K3 and most other 6- meter capable
> transceivers. "
>
> If it's not accurate, I'm not the guy you need to tell...
>
> 73, Ross N4RP

AC7AC

Re: [K3] decisions, decisions

In reply to this post by Ross Primrose N4RP

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