K3 drift
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During the past week I have noticed my K3 drifting during the first 20 seconds after power up. I hadn’t noticed this previously in my three month old K3 (SN 1672), so I’m wondering if this is normal? With winter here it is colder in my basement shack (maybe down 55 F), so perhaps that could explain the drift. I haven't measured the drift, but definitely have not noticed it in the past. Does anyone else observe this drift? Is this normal during warmup? Steve N9SZ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I have noticed no drift with my K-3. I would think that if the ambient temperature did have any effect it would have to be a lot colder than 55.
Bruce-W8FU -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email] Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:16 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] K3 drift During the past week I have noticed my K3 drifting during the first 20 seconds after power up. I hadn’t noticed this previously in my three month old K3 (SN 1672), so I’m wondering if this is normal? With winter here it is colder in my basement shack (maybe down 55 F), so perhaps that could explain the drift. I haven't measured the drift, but definitely have not noticed it in the past. Does anyone else observe this drift? Is this normal during warmup? Steve N9SZ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Steven.Zabarnick
Hi Steve,
I have not noticed anything like this. In fact yesterday I did some measurements of drift in order to see if the 1 ppm TXCO would be a worthwhile upgrade. I used spectrogram to measure the drift while tuned to WWV. From a cold start, until warm up, the Front panel temperature rose 10 degrees C and resulted in a 9-10 hz drift. The drift seemed to occur slowly and I did not notice any sudden jump in drift right after turning the radio on. While I know this is not a test with lab grade equipment, it may give you a rough idea of what drift I get from a cold start with the 5ppm TXCO. 73, John, KD8K [hidden email] wrote: > During the past week I have noticed my K3 drifting during the first 20 > seconds after power up. I hadn’t noticed this previously in my three month > old K3 (SN 1672), so I’m wondering if this is normal? With winter here it > is colder in my basement shack (maybe down 55 F), so perhaps that could > explain the drift. > > I haven't measured the drift, but definitely have not noticed it in the > past. > > Does anyone else observe this drift? Is this normal during warmup? > > Steve N9SZ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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> [hidden email] wrote: >> During the past week I have noticed my K3 drifting during the first 20 >> seconds after power up. I hadn’t noticed this previously in my three month >> old K3 (SN 1672), so I’m wondering if this is normal? With winter here it >> is colder in my basement shack (maybe down 55 F), so perhaps that could >> explain the drift. >> >> I haven't measured the drift, but definitely have not noticed it in the >> past. >> >> Does anyone else observe this drift? Is this normal during warmup? >> >> Steve N9SZ >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ With your question in mind is it REALLY NECESSARY to have temp. comp oven for our rather stable rigs to begin with??? Our newer rigs a now measured in "PPM" instead of KHZ. per hr. drift factor!!! It seems that in our hobby why in the heck would any individual really need a TCXO or whatever in the first place? As most ovens are only switched on when the rig is instead of being on CONTINUOUSLY whether the main rig is ON or OFF!!! Ovens really don't make that much sense! Jim/nn6ee _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by John A. McCabe
I have turned on my K3 and immediately initiated PSK31 contacts without
missing a burble. For my practical purposes there is no drift. Then again here in Florida we are pretty much temperature compensated in the house! Monty K2DLJ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by JIM DAVIS-11
Jim,
If you aren't using digital modes, you probably don't need to worry about stability, but... * Before I got a K3, I mostly used a TS-570 for digital modes, with somewhat limited success. It turned out it was drifting way too much, even during a quick qso. Transmitting would raise the temperature, causing the frequency to change, and during receive the frequency would gradually go back again. I paid about $200 to correct it by installing the optional Kenwood tcxo. I also noted, like many TS-570 owners, that the fan didn't kick in soon enough. I corrected that with a trimpot added to the rig. Before the upgrade, the size of the drift on a long transmission was way greater than going from perfect copy to no copy. * Based on the above experience I ordered my K3 with the upgraded tcxo. Digital mode copy has been great. As I recall, the Elecraft option was a bargain compared to the Kenwood one. * The other day I had a cw qso with another K3 user on 40. He drifted so I had to adjust my RIT 40 Hz during the qso. I was using a very narrow bandwidth setting. (Well, at least I *assume* that it was the other guy drifting...) * The spec says that the standard K3 tcxo will vary no more than 5 ppm going from 0-50 degrees C. Suppose the rig warms 10 degrees C during warmup. That would be 1 ppm or 14 Hz at 14 MHz. That's enough to be very noticeable with PSK31. 73, Erik K7TV ----- Original Message ----- From: "JIM DAVIS" <[hidden email]> To: "John A. McCabe" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: Re:Re: [Elecraft] K3 drift > [hidden email] wrote: >> During the past week I have noticed my K3 drifting during the first 20 >> seconds after power up. I hadn’t noticed this previously in my three >> month >> old K3 (SN 1672), so I’m wondering if this is normal? With winter here it >> is colder in my basement shack (maybe down 55 F), so perhaps that could >> explain the drift. >> >> I haven't measured the drift, but definitely have not noticed it in the >> past. >> >> Does anyone else observe this drift? Is this normal during warmup? >> >> Steve N9SZ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ With your question in mind is it REALLY NECESSARY to have temp. comp oven for our rather stable rigs to begin with??? Our newer rigs a now measured in "PPM" instead of KHZ. per hr. drift factor!!! It seems that in our hobby why in the heck would any individual really need a TCXO or whatever in the first place? As most ovens are only switched on when the rig is instead of being on CONTINUOUSLY whether the main rig is ON or OFF!!! Ovens really don't make that much sense! Jim/nn6ee _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by JIM DAVIS-11
The 1PPM TCXO of the K3 is supposed to support the ability to be calibrated over a range of temperatures so it doesn't need the rig to be on all the time to improve stability. Unfortunately, unless I missed it in one of the updates, the firmware support for this is still "on the list". Just as some folks obsess over receiver performance specs, others like to feel that their frequency readout is "spot on". As with many things in this hobby, whether or not it is really necessary to know your frequency to that level of accuracy is irrelevant. :)
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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Gary KI4GGX Wrote:
<I was considering getting the “KTCXO3-1” for my K3 and appreciate your observations. Unfortunately, without knowing on which frequency you were listening to WWV, it’s difficult to gauge your K3’s temperature stability. Were you listening on 5, 10, or 15 MHz? Hi Gary, Yes, I sure did forget to give the frequency in my last post. It was on 5 Mhz WWV. (I could not hear 10 or 15Mhz at all at the time) I did just did the test again, this time on 10 Mhz (still could not hear 15 Mhz very well) and I got about 18-20 hz drift during an increase of about 10c front panel temp. That again is with the 5ppm TXCO. I think that would be pretty consistent with my previous result. 73, John, KD8K _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:16:41 -0800 (PST)
"Julian, G4ILO" <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > JIM DAVIS-11 wrote: >> >> It seems that in our hobby why in the heck would any individual really >> need a TCXO or whatever >> in the first place? As most ovens are only switched on when the rig is >> instead of being >> on CONTINUOUSLY whether the main rig is ON or OFF!!! Ovens really don't >> make that much >> sense! >> > The 1PPM TCXO of the K3 is supposed to support the ability to be calibrated > over a range of temperatures so it doesn't need the rig to be on all the > time to improve stability. Unfortunately, unless I missed it in one of the > updates, the firmware support for this is still "on the list". > > Just as some folks obsess over receiver performance specs, others like to > feel that their frequency readout is "spot on". As with many things in this > hobby, whether or not it is really necessary to know your frequency to that > level of accuracy is irrelevant. :) Julian, A very astute explanation to a quandry that has boggled "Hamdom" since time-immemorial so to speak!!! Very warmest regards and to you and yours a VERY HAPPY NEW YEAR and that all of us NEW K3 owners can come up with many more NEW innovations to improve our "Great" machines EVEN MORE!!! ELECRAFT ROCKS!!! Jim/nn6ee _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
Julian, G4ILO wrote:
> The 1PPM TCXO of the K3 is supposed to support the ability to be > calibrated > over a range of temperatures so it doesn't need the rig to be on all > the > time to improve stability. Unfortunately, unless I missed it in one of > the > updates, the firmware support for this is still "on the list". The 1 PPM TCXO is already better than +/- 0.5 PPM from 0-50 in every case I've tested. This was the promised level of performance for the firmware-assisted calibration (which I'm still working on). 73, Wayne N6KR --- http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by JIM DAVIS-11
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In reply to this post by Steven.Zabarnick
I finally measured the drift that I'm seeing with my K3. I tracked this
using the AFC function of Digipan while monitoring the carrier of WWV at 10 Mhz. Upon power up, I see a drift to higher frequencies of 36 Hz over the first 90 seconds, then over the next 5-10 minutes the rig drifts much more slowly downward towards the original power up frequency. This was for a cold K3 in my 52F basement shack. I calculate a drift of 3.6 ppm which is within the spec of the 5 ppm TCXO. Steve N9SZ -----Steven Zabarnick/Research/FacStaff/UDayton wrote: ----- To: [hidden email] From: Steven Zabarnick/Research/FacStaff/UDayton Date: 12/30/2008 10:15AM Subject: K3 drift During the past week I have noticed my K3 drifting during the first 20 seconds after power up. I hadn’t noticed this previously in my three month old K3 (SN 1672), so I’m wondering if this is normal? With winter here it is colder in my basement shack (maybe down 55 F), so perhaps that could explain the drift. I haven't measured the drift, but definitely have not noticed it in the past. Does anyone else observe this drift? Is this normal during warmup? Steve N9SZ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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