K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
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K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
 
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Hey
troops,
I had an idea last
night while in CW QSO with my K3. I've noticed that I always turn the AF
gain down when I send CW. I have the side tone volume set to just the
right level for the Spot function to work, but when I send CW I want to greatly
reduce the distraction from the receiver. I still want to hear it, but not
be distracted by it.
That got me thinking
about ducking. Boy, would it be cool if the K3 would duck the receiver
under the CW side tone. I'd want it to be engaged only when sending (not
for spot) and I'd like the AF gain reduction to be adjustable through a menu
setting.
I guess another way
to implement this might be to have the side tone affect the AGC so when I send,
my RX responds as if it were a real signal and the AGC kicks in to quiet the
receiver. In this case, I'd want to set the amount of gain reduction and
whether to use Fast or Slow recovery.
- Keith N1AS
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- K3 711
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If it is possible and practical from a programming aspect, the
following would be a nice feature to have in the K3.
To have each menu function screen numbered and a sheet for
reference with the menu settings and there numbers listed. It would
make finding what you are looking for quicker and easier when in the
config. mode.
Thank you,
Roy Davis - WK4Y
#1366
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In reply to this post by Darwin, Keith
Interesting idea Keith!
I must admit that I too have often been turning
down gain controls while transmitting, not only on the K3, but even more on
other rigs. At other times I have been using
semi-QSK with a *LONG* timeout, even though the rig including amp can handle
full QSK. The reason is that my aging brain finds it harder every year to focus
on a task. Sending CW (my favorite mode) requires my 100% attention, and *any*
distraction can make me mess up: other stations received within the passband,
band noise, fan noise, relay clicks, and even hard edges on the side tone. I am
so happy that the K3 doesn't have the relay clicks of my old 1000D, but under
some circumstances its QSK/side tone have given me "hard edges" although that is
normally not the case. The K3's selectivity is a great blessing, and although I
can copy a single signal among several in a wide passband, I tend to reduce
bandwidth during a QSO so that I can transmit without hearing other stations. I
recently got a nice headset that blocks external sounds for the purpose of
blocking out the vacuum relay clicks and fan noise from my amplifier.
Your automatic ducking of the AF gain during
transmission would be a welcome option that I would probably end up using
sometimes if it were implemented. I guess the ducking as used during full QSK
could use a delay equal to the semi-QSK delay setting. For use with semi-QSK
perhaps one would want to use a shorter time constant for switching to receive
and a separate longer time before receive gets full gain.
Another idea: Since much of the distracting noise
between characters can be eliminated by using a really narrow bandwidth, how
about a new twist on Dual Passband: transmit full QSK with the very narrow
receive bandwidth and open up the bandwidth to 500 Hz or so after a delay set by
the semi-QSK delay?
73,
Erik K7TV
----- Original Message -----
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Re: K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
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In reply to this post by Darwin, Keith
What is "ducking", as you call it here?
73! Ken Kopp - K0PP [hidden email] _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
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Ducking is a commercial radio / sound industry technique of attenuating
the music when the DJ talks. In the old days, the DJ at the radio station would just pan down the music volume whenever he spoke into the mic. These days, recording studios will use a compressor with a separate trigger (side chain) input. The compressor is set to attenuate 20 dB or so whenever there is something on the trigger input. You run the music through the compressor and feed the voice to the trigger. Then, when you talk, the compressor is activated, forcing the music to "duck" under the vocals. Close your mouth and a moment later the music rushes back to full volume. - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ken Kopp Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:56 AM What is "ducking", as you call it here? 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP [hidden email] _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Roy Davis
Roy, WK4Y wrote:
If it is possible and practical from a programming aspect, the following would be a nice feature to have in the K3.  To have each menu function screen numbered and a sheet for reference with the menu settings and there numbers listed. It would make finding what you are looking for quicker and easier when in the config. mode.  ...... I agree. An alternative would be if the printed menu description also included (in bold) the actual WORDS that the menu abbreviation stood for, finding the menu you wanted would then be simpler. As it is now, the abbreviated words of the menu name are *sometimes* used in the description and sometimes they are not, leaving one to guess what the abbreviation “stands for”. You learn them eventually, but it could be simpler, particularly as the number of menu items grow. Terry, W0FM K3/100 #474 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Individually numbering each menu item could prove to be awkward. If you assign numbers 1 through 'n' now, what happens when you insert something later? It gets number n+1 but it may appear out of numeric order as you surf through the menu system. Same thing happens if you move an item around. If an item is deleted or replaced by 2 items, then I suppose you'd have to retire the original number. So instead of a nice clean listing of numbers 1 through N, you'd have a sparse list of items 1 through N that probably are not in numerical order when you look for them in the menu system.
- Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -----Original Message----- To have each menu function screen numbered and a sheet for reference with the menu settings and there numbers listed. It would make finding what you are looking for quicker and easier when in the config. mode.  _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Thanks for the comments to all replied. I understand Keith's viewpoint.
But, Yaesu has this and has made changes where the items did not stay the same. But I don't see updating the sheet a problem. If they are able to do it to the firmware, I would think that each update would overwrite the old information for that feature. I'm not a programmer, just my thoughts. Roy - WK4Y #1366 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darwin, Keith" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Future Feature Request Individually numbering each menu item could prove to be awkward. If you assign numbers 1 through 'n' now, what happens when you insert something later? It gets number n+1 but it may appear out of numeric order as you surf through the menu system. Same thing happens if you move an item around. If an item is deleted or replaced by 2 items, then I suppose you'd have to retire the original number. So instead of a nice clean listing of numbers 1 through N, you'd have a sparse list of items 1 through N that probably are not in numerical order when you look for them in the menu system. - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -----Original Message----- To have each menu function screen numbered and a sheet for reference with the menu settings and there numbers listed. It would make finding what you are looking for quicker and easier when in the config. mode. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
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In reply to this post by Darwin, Keith
I still don't understand this notion. For CW, don't you obtain this
effect simply by turning down the sidetone volume? On transmit, receive is already muted. Peter On 1/20/09, Darwin, Keith <[hidden email]> wrote: > Ducking is a commercial radio / sound industry technique of attenuating > the music when the DJ talks. In the old days, the DJ at the radio > station would just pan down the music volume whenever he spoke into the > mic. These days, recording studios will use a compressor with a > separate trigger (side chain) input. The compressor is set to attenuate > 20 dB or so whenever there is something on the trigger input. You run > the music through the compressor and feed the voice to the trigger. > Then, when you talk, the compressor is activated, forcing the music to > "duck" under the vocals. Close your mouth and a moment later the music > rushes back to full volume. > > - Keith N1AS - > - K3 711 - > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ken Kopp > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:56 AM > > What is "ducking", as you call it here? > > 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP > [hidden email] > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Darwin, Keith
I thought it was pretty nice for the menu to be in alphabetical order so
it was easy to run through to find what you are looking for, and lends itself very well for new additions. Also making up a cheat sheet for most used functions, just leave a couple spaces between letters for new additions. Merv KH7C K3 2306 > Individually numbering each menu item could prove to be awkward. > - Keith N1AS - > - K3 711 - > > -----Original Message----- > To have each menu function screen numbered and a sheet for reference with the menu settings and there numbers listed. It would make finding what you are looking for quicker and easier when in the config. mode. > > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
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In reply to this post by Peter Wollan-2
No, the manual way to achieve this effect is to turn down the AF gain
while you're transmitting. Sidetone is still there nice & loud but the RX audio that you hear between elements is reduced. When you're done sending, you reach for the AF gain and turn it back up to the normal listening level. Now, imagine it was automatic. As soon as you send, the K3 turns AF gain down and leaves it down until a second or so after you finish sending, then it turns it back up to where it was. This way, while you're sending, the AF signal that you hear between dots & dashes is quieter than when you're just listening. Is that any clearer? If not, ask more questions :-) - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -----Original Message----- I still don't understand this notion. For CW, don't you obtain this effect simply by turning down the sidetone volume? On transmit, receive is already muted. Peter _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
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Administrator
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Keith,
This is an interesting idea, and I've added it to the firmware wish-list. Thanks. In the interim you might try a non-zero value of CW semi-QSK delay, assuming you don't need full break-in. Wayne N6KR On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:52 AM, Darwin, Keith wrote: > No, the manual way to achieve this effect is to turn down the AF gain > while you're transmitting. Sidetone is still there nice & loud but the > RX audio that you hear between elements is reduced. When you're done > sending, you reach for the AF gain and turn it back up to the normal > listening level. > > Now, imagine it was automatic. As soon as you send, the K3 turns AF > gain down and leaves it down until a second or so after you finish > sending, then it turns it back up to where it was. This way, while > you're sending, the AF signal that you hear between dots & dashes is > quieter than when you're just listening. --- http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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wayne burdick wrote:
> Keith, > > This is an interesting idea, and I've added it to the firmware > wish-list. Thanks. In the interim you might try a non-zero value of CW > semi-QSK delay, assuming you don't need full break-in. I would use this if the amount of compression was adjustable. But cleaning up some of the sidetone artifacts heard when the band is noisy or crowded would go a long way toward obviating the need for this! -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Hopefully if implemented it is an option. If not using QSK it is fine. But
if using QSK I want to hear between elements, even if the other station is weak while I am sending so that I don't need to keep sending if the other station starts transmitting. 73, N2TK, Tony -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of wayne burdick Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:57 PM To: Darwin, Keith Cc: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking! Keith, This is an interesting idea, and I've added it to the firmware wish-list. Thanks. In the interim you might try a non-zero value of CW semi-QSK delay, assuming you don't need full break-in. Wayne N6KR On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:52 AM, Darwin, Keith wrote: > No, the manual way to achieve this effect is to turn down the AF gain > while you're transmitting. Sidetone is still there nice & loud but the > RX audio that you hear between elements is reduced. When you're done > sending, you reach for the AF gain and turn it back up to the normal > listening level. > > Now, imagine it was automatic. As soon as you send, the K3 turns AF > gain down and leaves it down until a second or so after you finish > sending, then it turns it back up to where it was. This way, while > you're sending, the AF signal that you hear between dots & dashes is > quieter than when you're just listening. --- http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
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Administrator
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On Jan 20, 2009, at 10:54 AM, N2TK wrote: > Hopefully if implemented it is an option. Definitely. Wayne > If not using QSK it is fine. But > if using QSK I want to hear between elements, even if the other > station is > weak while I am sending... --- http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
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In reply to this post by N2TK
I would definitely view it as an option, and I'd want some
configurability to it. But, with this feature, you'd still be able to run full QSK and hear between dots. It may be that really weak stations become harder to hear depending on how much attenuation you choose to apply to the RX signal. I'm thinking I may give it a try with my external compressor. I *think* I can get it all hooked up. We'll see. - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -----Original Message----- From: N2TK [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 1:55 PM To: 'wayne burdick'; Darwin, Keith Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector' Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking! Hopefully if implemented it is an option. If not using QSK it is fine. But if using QSK I want to hear between elements, even if the other station is weak while I am sending so that I don't need to keep sending if the other station starts transmitting. 73, N2TK, Tony _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by K7TV
Hi Eric,
Not sure I understand what benefit there would be to
open up the bandwidth when in QSK mode. Since I most likely will be in QSK mode
when calling someone, I would think one would want to maintain the same receive
bandwidth as selected before initiating the
call.
If I need to change bandwidth quickly I use
"I/II".
What am I missing?
73,
N2TK, Tony From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Erik N Basilier Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:40 AM To: Darwin, Keith; [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking! Another idea: Since much of the distracting noise
between characters can be eliminated by using a really narrow bandwidth, how
about a new twist on Dual Passband: transmit full QSK with the very narrow
receive bandwidth and open up the bandwidth to 500 Hz or so after a delay set by
the semi-QSK delay?
73,
Erik K7TV
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In reply to this post by N2TK
N2TK wrote:
> Hopefully if implemented it is an option. If not using QSK it is fine. But > if using QSK I want to hear between elements, even if the other station is > weak while I am sending so that I don't need to keep sending if the other > station starts transmitting. Actually, I think a small amount of gain reduction might go a long way toward reducing operator fatigue in a contest, for example, without seriously impacting the ability to hear a break. What's important is that the amount of gain reduction be adjustable over a wide range to accommodate the above use as well as for the guy who wants it to be a kind of semi-QSK. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
I like this ducking idea and would very likely use it. It's sort of a
'soft' QSK. I certainly understand the benefits of full QSK operation, but it's something that I simply cannot get my brain to cooperate with. To me, operating full QSK with other signals present is like trying to count ball bearings with two or three other people shouting random numbers at me. Even without other signals, the rhythmic pulsing of the band noise messes me up. I usually use semi QSK with a 1/2 second or so delay, but perhaps with an option for something between dead silence and operating volume level, I could train my brain to work full QSK. 73 -- Joe KB8AP On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:56 AM, wayne burdick wrote: > Keith, > > This is an interesting idea, and I've added it to the firmware > wish-list. Thanks. In the interim you might try a non-zero value of CW > semi-QSK delay, assuming you don't need full break-in. > > Wayne > N6KR > > On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:52 AM, Darwin, Keith wrote: > >> No, the manual way to achieve this effect is to turn down the AF gain >> while you're transmitting. Sidetone is still there nice & loud but >> the >> RX audio that you hear between elements is reduced. When you're done >> sending, you reach for the AF gain and turn it back up to the normal >> listening level. >> >> Now, imagine it was automatic. As soon as you send, the K3 turns AF >> gain down and leaves it down until a second or so after you finish >> sending, then it turns it back up to where it was. This way, while >> you're sending, the AF signal that you hear between dots & dashes is >> quieter than when you're just listening. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
I like the idea as well... if one could adjust the audio attenuation to suit
one's needs it would help those of us who aren't as proficient as we'd wish and distracted as well. 73, Bill K9YEQ K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods -----Original Message----- Keith, This is an interesting idea, and I've added it to the firmware wish-list. Thanks. In the interim you might try a non-zero value of CW semi-QSK delay, assuming you don't need full break-in. Wayne N6KR On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:52 AM, Darwin, Keith wrote: > No, the manual way to achieve this effect is to turn down the AF gain > while you're transmitting. Sidetone is still there nice & loud but the > RX audio that you hear between elements is reduced. When you're done > sending, you reach for the AF gain and turn it back up to the normal > listening level. > > Now, imagine it was automatic. As soon as you send, the K3 turns AF > gain down and leaves it down until a second or so after you finish > sending, then it turns it back up to where it was. This way, while > you're sending, the AF signal that you hear between dots & dashes is > quieter than when you're just listening. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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