K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
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K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
 
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Unfortunately the K3 firmware seems to have wandered off track a bit,
two years ago when the K3 started rolling out the following were on the "to do" list and formed part of the specification: 0.5 ppm TCXO calibration Synchronous AM These might not be the most important issues in the world, but were included in the original specification and are in the Oct 24th 2007 "B1 manual". Currently the K3 fails to meet specification! Can we have some indication of their position on the firmware roadmap? 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
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On Sat, 2009-09-19 at 09:58 +0100, Dave G4AON wrote:
> Unfortunately the K3 firmware seems to have wandered off track a bit, > two years ago when the K3 started rolling out the following were on the > "to do" list and formed part of the specification: > > 0.5 ppm TCXO calibration If you look at the sheet that came with your TCXO you might notice that it does a good deal better than 0.5ppm without any calibration over the temperature range that your radio goes through during operation. The TCXO in my k3 is better than 0.5ppm over the temp range -10C to +50C. My Front panel temp as measured by the K3 is always around 37-40 C and does not vary much you mileage may vary but the K3 with the TCXO already comfortably exceeds 0.5ppm without the additional calibration. (which is coming.) Therefore the K3 does not 'fail' to meet the 0.5ppm spec at present > Synchronous AM There are a number of things such as Diversity mode that were not in the original specification that I would consider much more important than Sync AM. I am reasonably sure that the sync AM will come and when it does it will work properly. Sync AM might be nice to have but it's current absence is hardly a show stopper, especially when the radio is more than stable enough to accurately tune AM signals in SSB mode. -- 73 Brendan EI6IZ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
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In reply to this post by Dave, G4AON
You've been reading my blog, Dave! Or the review I posted yesterday on eHam. Whilst I agree with what you say, I think there are two other issues that need to be addressed which relate to the K3 not working in a way that users would expect (the way every other competitive radio does) which for some people may be considered even more important. One is the simple - from the user's perspective, I appreciate not so simple for the firmware developer - matter of disabling equalization when DATA mode is used. I've been browsing online manuals of radios from Yaesu, Kenwood and Icom and they all do that. Until the K3 also does, those of us who use data modes a lot will continue to have to leave equalization flat unless we want to fiddle about setting / unsetting it whenever we change modes. The other issue is the way the memories work, which I believe that anyone using the K3 for FM - as I expect more people will want to do when XV144's get out in the field - will consider to be not good enough. The "channel hopping" memories were a lame step in the right direction but their major flaw is that they only load the receive frequency into the VFO. This is fine for scanning, but if you have a mixture of simplex and repeater channels in memories with different access tones you can't just press PTT and reply to the signal you heard while scanning because the repeater shift and access tone associated with the memory you're listening to have not been loaded, so you may well be transmitting on the wrong frequency and/or with the wrong access tone. Once all these issues have been addressed I believe that the K3 may finally be able to lay claim to being the class-leading radio that we all hoped it would be.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
Re: K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
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In reply to this post by Dave, G4AON
K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do?
I still dont own a K3. I just cant bring myself to buy the K3 because of its front panel layout and its operation. Although I would very much like its receiver performance. I have used one at a contest station and all that I can say is that I would not buy one until a new front panel layout is designed. The band switching, VFO management, mode switching and many aspects of its front panel design needs a rework. Most of the contest operators that I know seem to own a FT2000, they will all acknowledge that its no K3, however they all feel the same as I do about the K3 and its ergonomics. Most of us are just not portable operators, so dont need small size 12 volt radios. There are many good radios that would be a good front panel design model for the K3a. The FT950, FT920, Icom 737series, TS850 etc all have a very workable ergonomic front panel layouts that are easy to use. The FT950 is so well layed out and very attractive and it would be a good one to copy for a new K3 front panel. If the K3 is so modular, why would it be so hard not to offer a bigger box with a new front panel? There are many off the shelf 19 inch rack boxes that could be used with a new front panel styling. I would suggest that a new K3 panel with built in P3, power supply and 200 watt PA stage would be a big hit. Everyone seems to be so over the moon with the K3's small size, I must be a freak with alien genes to not like the radios front panel layout and operational ergonomics. The firmware feature list or lack of progress I can live with. However a awkward panel layout and poor ergomics thats carved in rock I cant really live with. When I used the K3 all that I ever used was the band switch, volume and RIT control.... thats all, just like a Mil-spec radio. It was very hard to do otherwise, so I probably missed a lot of the K3's potential. I too live in hope that a new K4 is coming! I could even live with a K3 junior with one receiver and a new front panel design. John --- On Sat, 9/19/09, Dave G4AON <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: Dave G4AON <[hidden email]> > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do > To: [hidden email] > Date: Saturday, September 19, 2009, 1:58 AM > Unfortunately the K3 firmware seems > to have wandered off track a bit, > two years ago when the K3 started rolling out the following > were on the > "to do" list and formed part of the specification: > > 0.5 ppm TCXO calibration > Synchronous AM > > These might not be the most important issues in the world, > but were > included in the original specification and are in the Oct > 24th 2007 "B1 > manual". Currently the K3 fails to meet specification! > > Can we have some indication of their position on the > firmware roadmap? > > 73 Dave, G4AON > K3/100 #80 > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
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Perhaps an external control pod might prove a help. I hate having to hold
my hand across the keyboard and key to get to the memory push buttons. Yes I know one should use an external controller for the rig but this should not be necessary. Oh but I love the K3 but it needs a control pod. 73 Doug EI2CN -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of juergen piezo Sent: 19 September 2009 11:42 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do? I still dont own a K3. I just cant bring myself to buy the K3 because of its front panel layout and its operation. Although I would very much like its receiver performance. I have used one at a contest station and all that I can say is that I would not buy one until a new front panel layout is designed. The band switching, VFO management, mode switching and many aspects of its front panel design needs a rework. Most of the contest operators that I know seem to own a FT2000, they will all acknowledge that its no K3, however they all feel the same as I do about the K3 and its ergonomics. Most of us are just not portable operators, so dont need small size 12 volt radios. There are many good radios that would be a good front panel design model for the K3a. The FT950, FT920, Icom 737series, TS850 etc all have a very workable ergonomic front panel layouts that are easy to use. The FT950 is so well layed out and very attractive and it would be a good one to copy for a new K3 front panel. If the K3 is so modular, why would it be so hard not to offer a bigger box with a new front panel? There are many off the shelf 19 inch rack boxes that could be used with a new front panel styling. I would suggest that a new K3 panel with built in P3, power supply and 200 watt PA stage would be a big hit. Everyone seems to be so over the moon with the K3's small size, I must be a freak with alien genes to not like the radios front panel layout and operational ergonomics. The firmware feature list or lack of progress I can live with. However a awkward panel layout and poor ergomics thats carved in rock I cant really live with. When I used the K3 all that I ever used was the band switch, volume and RIT control.... thats all, just like a Mil-spec radio. It was very hard to do otherwise, so I probably missed a lot of the K3's potential. I too live in hope that a new K4 is coming! I could even live with a K3 junior with one receiver and a new front panel design. John --- On Sat, 9/19/09, Dave G4AON <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: Dave G4AON <[hidden email]> > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do > To: [hidden email] > Date: Saturday, September 19, 2009, 1:58 AM > Unfortunately the K3 firmware seems > to have wandered off track a bit, > two years ago when the K3 started rolling out the following > were on the > "to do" list and formed part of the specification: > > 0.5 ppm TCXO calibration > Synchronous AM > > These might not be the most important issues in the world, > but were > included in the original specification and are in the Oct > 24th 2007 "B1 > manual". Currently the K3 fails to meet specification! > > Can we have some indication of their position on the > firmware roadmap? > > 73 Dave, G4AON > K3/100 #80 > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Dave, G4AON
You can make some of the people happy some of the time...............
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Re: K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
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In reply to this post by juergen piezo
> The band switching, VFO management, mode switching and many > aspects of its front panel design needs a rework. Most of the > contest operators that I know seem to own a FT2000, they will > all acknowledge that its no K3, however they all feel the > same as I do about the K3 and its ergonomics. Having used the FT-1000D, Mark V, and FT-2000 series of radios for nearly 20 years before moving the K3, the "front panel design" and "ergonomics" issues are completely bogus. There are other transceivers with user interfaces very similar to the K3 - including some from Yaesu - and, while different than the FT-990/1000/2000/9000 the K3 User interface is no less usable. Anyone who makes the size/user interface argument is simply making an excuse for not learning a new user interface based prejudice. Any contester or DXer who uses one of the popular contest or day to day logging packages with "point and shoot" features is insulated from the transceiver's user interface to such an extent that the differences among user interfaces is largely irrelevant anyway. 73, ... Joe, W4TV > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of juergen piezo > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:42 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do > > > K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do? > > I still dont own a K3. I just cant bring myself to buy the > K3 because > of its front panel layout and its operation. Although I would > very much like its receiver performance. > > I have used one at a contest station and all that I can > say is that I would not buy one until a new front panel layout is > designed. > > The band switching, VFO management, mode switching and many > aspects of its front panel design needs a rework. Most of the > contest operators that I know seem to own a FT2000, they will > all acknowledge that its no K3, however they all feel the > same as I do about the K3 and its ergonomics. Most of us are > just not portable operators, so dont need small size 12 volt radios. > > There are many good radios that would be a good front panel > design model for the K3a. The FT950, FT920, Icom 737series, > TS850 etc all have a very workable ergonomic front panel > layouts that are easy to use. The FT950 is so well layed out > and very attractive and it would be a good one to copy for a > new K3 front panel. > > If the K3 is so modular, why would it be so hard not to > offer a bigger box with a new front panel? There are many off > the shelf 19 inch rack > boxes that could be used with a new front panel styling. > > I would suggest that a new K3 panel with built in P3, power > supply and 200 watt PA stage would be a big hit. Everyone > seems to be so over the moon with the K3's small size, I must > be a freak with alien genes to not like the radios front > panel layout and operational ergonomics. > > The firmware feature list or lack of progress I can live > with. However a awkward panel layout and poor ergomics thats > carved in rock I cant really live with. When I used the K3 > all that I ever used was the band switch, volume and RIT > control.... thats all, just like a Mil-spec radio. It was > very hard to do otherwise, so I probably missed a lot of the > K3's potential. > > I too live in hope that a new K4 is coming! I could even live > with a K3 junior with one receiver and a new front panel design. > > John > > --- On Sat, 9/19/09, Dave G4AON <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > From: Dave G4AON <[hidden email]> > > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do > > To: [hidden email] > > Date: Saturday, September 19, 2009, 1:58 AM > > Unfortunately the K3 firmware seems > > to have wandered off track a bit, > > two years ago when the K3 started rolling out the following were on > > the "to do" list and formed part of the specification: > > > > 0.5 ppm TCXO calibration > > Synchronous AM > > > > These might not be the most important issues in the world, but were > > included in the original specification and are in the Oct > > 24th 2007 "B1 > > manual". Currently the K3 fails to meet specification! > > > > Can we have some indication of their position on the > > firmware roadmap? > > > > 73 Dave, G4AON > > K3/100 #80 > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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"Completely bogus" is in the eye of the beholder, Joe.
While I find the K3 ergonomics to be much better than I expected, there is room for improvement, as many have pointed out. 73, Steve NN4X On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > The band switching, VFO management, mode switching and many > > aspects of its front panel design needs a rework. Most of the > > contest operators that I know seem to own a FT2000, they will > > all acknowledge that its no K3, however they all feel the > > same as I do about the K3 and its ergonomics. > > Having used the FT-1000D, Mark V, and FT-2000 series of radios > for nearly 20 years before moving the K3, the "front panel > design" and "ergonomics" issues are completely bogus. There > are other transceivers with user interfaces very similar to > the K3 - including some from Yaesu - and, while different than > the FT-990/1000/2000/9000 the K3 User interface is no less usable. > > Anyone who makes the size/user interface argument is simply > making an excuse for not learning a new user interface based > prejudice. Any contester or DXer who uses one of the popular > contest or day to day logging packages with "point and shoot" > features is insulated from the transceiver's user interface > to such an extent that the differences among user interfaces > is largely irrelevant anyway. > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [hidden email] > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of juergen piezo > > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:42 AM > > To: [hidden email] > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do > > > > > > K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do? > > > > I still dont own a K3. I just cant bring myself to buy the > > K3 because > > of its front panel layout and its operation. Although I would > > very much like its receiver performance. > > > > I have used one at a contest station and all that I can > > say is that I would not buy one until a new front panel layout is > > designed. > > > > The band switching, VFO management, mode switching and many > > aspects of its front panel design needs a rework. Most of the > > contest operators that I know seem to own a FT2000, they will > > all acknowledge that its no K3, however they all feel the > > same as I do about the K3 and its ergonomics. Most of us are > > just not portable operators, so dont need small size 12 volt radios. > > > > There are many good radios that would be a good front panel > > design model for the K3a. The FT950, FT920, Icom 737series, > > TS850 etc all have a very workable ergonomic front panel > > layouts that are easy to use. The FT950 is so well layed out > > and very attractive and it would be a good one to copy for a > > new K3 front panel. > > > > If the K3 is so modular, why would it be so hard not to > > offer a bigger box with a new front panel? There are many off > > the shelf 19 inch rack > > boxes that could be used with a new front panel styling. > > > > I would suggest that a new K3 panel with built in P3, power > > supply and 200 watt PA stage would be a big hit. Everyone > > seems to be so over the moon with the K3's small size, I must > > be a freak with alien genes to not like the radios front > > panel layout and operational ergonomics. > > > > The firmware feature list or lack of progress I can live > > with. However a awkward panel layout and poor ergomics thats > > carved in rock I cant really live with. When I used the K3 > > all that I ever used was the band switch, volume and RIT > > control.... thats all, just like a Mil-spec radio. It was > > very hard to do otherwise, so I probably missed a lot of the > > K3's potential. > > > > I too live in hope that a new K4 is coming! I could even live > > with a K3 junior with one receiver and a new front panel design. > > > > John > > > > --- On Sat, 9/19/09, Dave G4AON <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > From: Dave G4AON <[hidden email]> > > > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do > > > To: [hidden email] > > > Date: Saturday, September 19, 2009, 1:58 AM > > > Unfortunately the K3 firmware seems > > > to have wandered off track a bit, > > > two years ago when the K3 started rolling out the following were on > > > the "to do" list and formed part of the specification: > > > > > > 0.5 ppm TCXO calibration > > > Synchronous AM > > > > > > These might not be the most important issues in the world, but were > > > included in the original specification and are in the Oct > > > 24th 2007 "B1 > > > manual". Currently the K3 fails to meet specification! > > > > > > Can we have some indication of their position on the > > > firmware roadmap? > > > > > > 73 Dave, G4AON > > > K3/100 #80 > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
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In reply to this post by Dave, G4AON
The fact it is "2 years on and still much to do" is good news. My radio
started out great (#101) and has just gotten better without me having to buy much of anything (think 756, 756Pro, 756ProII, 756ProIII). I can look forward to new innovations every couple of weeks. I hope they never stop. Now, what would be interesting would be a "big box" version of the K3. Same electronics but in a bigger case with more room between the knobs and separate knobs/switches for functions instead of multi-use. Sigh 73 k4ia "Buck" Fredericksburg, VA K3 #101 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
Dave, Et. Al.
On the ergonomics front, as a former TS850 user for years, I disagree. I find the learning curve from my mindless habitual use of my TS850 and TS570 almost painless. The basic controls function in very similar ways. This commonality with Kenwood ergonomics was one of the reasons I selected the K3 over competitive Icom, TenTec and Yaesu products (as Kenwood no longer makes a real, contest quality transceiver... Now If I could have bought a brand new TS950SDX...) Regarding the following: One is the simple - from the user's perspective, I appreciate not so simple for the firmware developer - matter of disabling equalization when DATA mode is used. I've been browsing online manuals of radios from Yaesu, Kenwood and Icom and they all do that. Until the K3 also does, those of us who use data modes a lot will continue to have to leave equalization flat unless we want to fiddle about setting / unsetting it whenever we change modes. While I agree it would be nice to manage that issue in the radio, the solution lies in K3-EZ. Simply store your Digimode TX/RX Equalization setups in a memory called "Digimode", your CW setups in a memory called "CW", your SSB setups in a memory called "SSB"... You get the picture! Recall them as you need them. It takes about 5 seconds to do. Of course you need a computer... But I know you already have one! Hey, at least the fastening hardware is all the same and not a mixture of SAE, Whitworth and Metric like on my former Triumph Spitfire... I always knew where I parked it by the pool of transaxle fluid :) -lu-W4LT K3 S# 3192
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Re: K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
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In reply to this post by S Sacco
Steve, > While I find the K3 ergonomics to be much better than I > expected, there is room for improvement, as many have > pointed out. Claiming that the K3's more basic user interface (similar to a TS-570, IC-706, FT-900, or even TR-7, TS-830, etc.) is a reason to reject the radio IS bogus. It is equivalent to saying one should reject a particular brand or model of automobile because it has a steering column mounted gearshift or does not include cruise control and intermittent wipers where another automobile includes them. Do I still change modes when meaning to change bands? Yes. However, I also made "finger errors" with the FT-1000D user interface - that doesn't make one interface "better" than the other. 73, ... Joe, W4TV > -----Original Message----- > From: S Sacco [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 11:18 AM > To: [hidden email] > Cc: juergen piezo; [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do > > > "Completely bogus" is in the eye of the beholder, Joe. > > While I find the K3 ergonomics to be much better than I > expected, there is room for improvement, as many have pointed out. > > 73, > Steve NN4X > > > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV > <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > The band switching, VFO management, mode switching and many > aspects of > > its front panel design needs a rework. Most of the contest > operators > > that I know seem to own a FT2000, they will all acknowledge > that its > > no K3, however they all feel the same as I do about the K3 and its > > ergonomics. > > > Having used the FT-1000D, Mark V, and FT-2000 series of > radios for nearly 20 years before moving the K3, the "front > panel design" and "ergonomics" issues are completely bogus. > There are other transceivers with user interfaces very > similar to the K3 - including some from Yaesu - and, while > different than the FT-990/1000/2000/9000 the K3 User > interface is no less usable. > > Anyone who makes the size/user interface argument is simply > making an excuse for not learning a new user interface based > prejudice. Any contester or DXer who uses one of the popular > contest or day to day logging packages with "point and shoot" > features is insulated from the transceiver's user interface > to such an extent that the differences among user interfaces > is largely irrelevant anyway. > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [hidden email] > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of juergen piezo > > > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:42 AM > > To: [hidden email] > > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do > > > > > > K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do? > > > > I still dont own a K3. I just cant bring myself to buy the K3 > > because of its front panel layout and its operation. > Although I would > > very much like its receiver performance. > > > > I have used one at a contest station and all that I can > > say is that I would not buy one until a new front panel layout is > > designed. > > > > The band switching, VFO management, mode switching and many > aspects of > > its front panel design needs a rework. Most of the contest > operators > > that I know seem to own a FT2000, they will all acknowledge > that its > > no K3, however they all feel the same as I do about the K3 and its > > ergonomics. Most of us are just not portable operators, so > dont need > > small size 12 volt radios. > > > > There are many good radios that would be a good front panel design > > model for the K3a. The FT950, FT920, Icom 737series, TS850 etc all > > have a very workable ergonomic front panel layouts that are easy to > > use. The FT950 is so well layed out and very attractive and > it would > > be a good one to copy for a new K3 front panel. > > > > If the K3 is so modular, why would it be so hard not to > > offer a bigger box with a new front panel? There are many off the > > shelf 19 inch rack boxes that could be used with a new front panel > > styling. > > > > I would suggest that a new K3 panel with built in P3, power supply > > and 200 watt PA stage would be a big hit. Everyone seems to be so > > over the moon with the K3's small size, I must be a freak > with alien > > genes to not like the radios front panel layout and operational > > ergonomics. > > > > The firmware feature list or lack of progress I can live > with. However > > a awkward panel layout and poor ergomics thats carved in > rock I cant > > really live with. When I used the K3 all that I ever used was the > > band switch, volume and RIT control.... thats all, just like a > > Mil-spec radio. It was very hard to do otherwise, so I probably > > missed a lot of the K3's potential. > > > > I too live in hope that a new K4 is coming! I could even > live with a > > K3 junior with one receiver and a new front panel design. > > > > John > > > > --- On Sat, 9/19/09, Dave G4AON <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > From: Dave G4AON <[hidden email]> > > > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do > > > To: [hidden email] > > > Date: Saturday, September 19, 2009, 1:58 AM > > > Unfortunately the K3 firmware seems > > > to have wandered off track a bit, > > > two years ago when the K3 started rolling out the > following were on > > > the "to do" list and formed part of the specification: > > > > > > 0.5 ppm TCXO calibration > > > Synchronous AM > > > > > > These might not be the most important issues in the > world, but were > > > included in the original specification and are in the Oct > 24th 2007 > > > "B1 manual". Currently the K3 fails to meet specification! > > > > > > Can we have some indication of their position on the firmware > > > roadmap? > > > > > > 73 Dave, G4AON > > > K3/100 #80 > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
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In reply to this post by Buck - k4ia
I think that this is missing the point. I am happy that new innovations are appearing in the firmware. I would even be willing to pay for updates containing new features that I want. The complaint (nit-picking though some may consider it) by Dave G4AON and a few others is that two years on some features that were promised in the brochure or documented in the manual are still not implemented. My criticisms that I emphasized in my review were that the K3 still has certain fundamental operational deficiencies that could have been avoided if the designers had looked at how other radios worked before designing the interface. If everything worked as expected and we were only getting new features 2 years on I would be delighted. That is not a solution, it is a workaround that should not be necessary. A 5 second operation is no replacement for a simple click of a button. But in fact it would not take as little as 5 seconds. One presumably would be using logging and/or datamode software, so you would have to close those programs, start K3-EZ, wait for it to load, go through the steps you suggest, close K3-EZ and load your logging or digimode program again. Why should that cumbersome procedure be necessary when an IC-746PRO, a TS-2000 and probably many other radios that so many here would sneer at as being inferior to the K3 do it automatically with the simple selection of the data mode? Elecraft have known about this for more than a year. People have been asking for per-mode EQ for a long time, though I'd happily settle for EQ off in data mode. Lyle has informed me that either option would be almost the same amount of work. But while we are waiting and waiting for the K3 to do something that is no more and no less than what other radios do, we find all kinds of other things being addressed like improvements to the audio, nice though I'm sure that is, which have far more recently become an issue. That's why some of us ask uncomfortable questions like is there a roadmap for the firmware development, so we can see when the issues that bug us are going to receive some attention. It seems to me that the requirements of people who want to exploit all the possibilities the K3 offers like digimodes, AM and FM are being ignored, while the improvements requested by the competitive SSB and CW operators get immediate attention. If that's really what's going on then fine, I'll sell my K3 and buy an Icom or Kenwood that do FM and digimodes a lot better than the K3 currently does. But I really get fed up with being told by people who exclusively use SSB or CW that there is nothing wrong with the K3 and I should stop complaining about it. It *is* supposed to be an all-mode radio.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
Re: K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
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> But while we are waiting and waiting for the K3 to do something that is no
> more and no less than what other radios do, we find all kinds of other > things being addressed like improvements to the audio, nice though I'm > sure > that is, which have far more recently become an issue. I won't speak on behalf of Elecraft but I suspect the designers are prioritizing the roadmap based on necessity, user demand and available resources. You may be one of a few users who want data EQ On/Off prioritized to the top of the list, irrespective of past advertising disclosure. Strong demand from the larger user base may be invoking these changes in the "roadmap." As a company, they reserve the right to move forward with a product in any way they desire (i.e., "features and specifications subject to change"). There's also a due-diligence obligation on the part of the prospective purchaser: How difficult would it have been to ask Elecraft, prior to the purchase: "Will the data EQ bypass capability be absolutely ready at the time of production and purchase?" > That's why some of us ask uncomfortable questions like is there a roadmap > for the firmware development, so we can see when the issues that bug us > are > going to receive some attention. Dangerous. If I'm a product developer, I am then held hostage to my own roadmap and delivery dates -- and many disgruntled users who will continuously point out that the company is driving off the designated roadways and loosing time in getting to the final destination (perhaps like the topic of this discussion). Paul, W9AC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
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Why would I have any reason to think that it wouldn't? Other radios in existence at the time of the K3's announcement already did that. Therefore I think it is not unreasonable to assume that the K3's implementation of the data mode would work the same way. We are, after all, talking about a consumer purchase not a defence department procurement. Okay, but roadmaps don't exist for your convenience. They are for the benefit of the customer who wants an idea of where and when he will get what he needs if it isn't available right now. In the case of the K3 its as if we are moving, hopefully forward, blindly and in the dark, with numerous people shouting often conflicting directions and no-one knowing if the drivers heard us or not.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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K3 is a "consensus-derived SDR"
The larger the K3 community grows the harder it will become to get consensus about it's FW. I think this is giving Elecraft a hard time as well as a good laugh (I hope). The danger is that consensus gets disturbed by lobbying and shouting. That might drive K3 into a niche corner where it shouldn't be. Also I hope Elecraft won't rest too much on it's review-laurels. Don't focus too much on expansion, first strive for perfection in K3's core-functionality. Personally I think it won't be too long until other companies also drop their 1st IF roofing frequencies or switch to direct sampling HF SDR and get very comparable RF/IMD/DR results in a similar package. It will be a lot harder to still excell if you didn't refine "the small stuff". (UI,audio,eq,memory handling, etc) for a wide variety of users. 73' Paul PD0PSB |
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In reply to this post by Buck - k4ia
On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:31:21 EDT, [hidden email] wrote:
>The fact it is "2 years on and still much to do" is good news. My radio >started out great (#101) and has just gotten better without me having to buy >much of anything (think 756, 756Pro, 756ProII, 756ProIII). I can look >forward to new innovations every couple of weeks. I hope they never stop. > >Now, what would be interesting would be a "big box" version of the K3. >Same electronics but in a bigger case with more room between the knobs and >separate knobs/switches for functions instead of multi-use. > >Sigh 73 > Yep. Don't forget to poor some concrete in the unused interior space until it weighs 50 lbs and take out the passenger seat in the car so you can use it mobile. ;o) 73, Tom, N5GE [hidden email] K3 #806, K3 #1055, PR6, XV144, XV432, KRC2, W1 and other small kits. http://www.n5ge.com http://www.swotrc.net ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
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Re: K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
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In reply to this post by pd0psb
In fairness I would point out that I'm only suggesting that the K3 should provide the same functionality as other multimode top band to two metre radios as regards the operation of the data modes and the memories. I can't imagine that anyone would think there is a benefit in having audio equalization apply in data mode and surely no-one could think that the way the memories currently work is actually an improvement over the way other radios do it. Though there seem to be members of this list who would argue that black is white if white is what Elecraft said the color of the K3 case is...
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
Re: K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
On Sep 19, 2009, at 1:59 PM, Julian, G4ILO wrote: >> >> There's also a due-diligence obligation on the part of the >> prospective >> purchaser: How difficult would it have been to ask Elecraft, prior >> to the >> purchase: "Will the data EQ bypass capability be absolutely ready >> at the >> time of production and purchase?" >> > Why would I have any reason to think that it wouldn't? Other radios in > existence at the time of the K3's announcement already did that. So what? That's an absurd assumption. Read the specs, read the manual. Don't like what you see? Move on to something else. But don't spend hours berating the fact that your assumptions were bad. Grant/NQ5T ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
I think most who feel they have to have buttons for all bands and what
not haven't really spent much time learning the newer interface as recalling the memories as band switch is quite fast. Then if you use the M1-M4 as mode switch it puts you in the right frequency area and puts you in the right mode. Its very quick. As far as those who want the P3 the rig and a power supply all in one box they'd be the same ones complaining when something broke and they had to ship all that rig back to California. I personally don't mind a few extra cables and some modularity. ~BTH On Sat, 2009-09-19 at 10:35 -0400, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > > The band switching, VFO management, mode switching and many > > aspects of its front panel design needs a rework. Most of the > > contest operators that I know seem to own a FT2000, they will > > all acknowledge that its no K3, however they all feel the > > same as I do about the K3 and its ergonomics. > > Having used the FT-1000D, Mark V, and FT-2000 series of radios > for nearly 20 years before moving the K3, the "front panel > design" and "ergonomics" issues are completely bogus. There > are other transceivers with user interfaces very similar to > the K3 - including some from Yaesu - and, while different than > the FT-990/1000/2000/9000 the K3 User interface is no less usable. > > Anyone who makes the size/user interface argument is simply > making an excuse for not learning a new user interface based > prejudice. Any contester or DXer who uses one of the popular > contest or day to day logging packages with "point and shoot" > features is insulated from the transceiver's user interface > to such an extent that the differences among user interfaces > is largely irrelevant anyway. > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [hidden email] > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of juergen piezo > > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:42 AM > > To: [hidden email] > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do > > > > > > K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do? > > > > I still dont own a K3. I just cant bring myself to buy the > > K3 because > > of its front panel layout and its operation. Although I would > > very much like its receiver performance. > > > > I have used one at a contest station and all that I can > > say is that I would not buy one until a new front panel layout is > > designed. > > > > The band switching, VFO management, mode switching and many > > aspects of its front panel design needs a rework. Most of the > > contest operators that I know seem to own a FT2000, they will > > all acknowledge that its no K3, however they all feel the > > same as I do about the K3 and its ergonomics. Most of us are > > just not portable operators, so dont need small size 12 volt radios. > > > > There are many good radios that would be a good front panel > > design model for the K3a. The FT950, FT920, Icom 737series, > > TS850 etc all have a very workable ergonomic front panel > > layouts that are easy to use. The FT950 is so well layed out > > and very attractive and it would be a good one to copy for a > > new K3 front panel. > > > > If the K3 is so modular, why would it be so hard not to > > offer a bigger box with a new front panel? There are many off > > the shelf 19 inch rack > > boxes that could be used with a new front panel styling. > > > > I would suggest that a new K3 panel with built in P3, power > > supply and 200 watt PA stage would be a big hit. Everyone > > seems to be so over the moon with the K3's small size, I must > > be a freak with alien genes to not like the radios front > > panel layout and operational ergonomics. > > > > The firmware feature list or lack of progress I can live > > with. However a awkward panel layout and poor ergomics thats > > carved in rock I cant really live with. When I used the K3 > > all that I ever used was the band switch, volume and RIT > > control.... thats all, just like a Mil-spec radio. It was > > very hard to do otherwise, so I probably missed a lot of the > > K3's potential. > > > > I too live in hope that a new K4 is coming! I could even live > > with a K3 junior with one receiver and a new front panel design. > > > > John > > > > --- On Sat, 9/19/09, Dave G4AON <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > From: Dave G4AON <[hidden email]> > > > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 firmware 2 years on and still much to do > > > To: [hidden email] > > > Date: Saturday, September 19, 2009, 1:58 AM > > > Unfortunately the K3 firmware seems > > > to have wandered off track a bit, > > > two years ago when the K3 started rolling out the following were on > > > the "to do" list and formed part of the specification: > > > > > > 0.5 ppm TCXO calibration > > > Synchronous AM > > > > > > These might not be the most important issues in the world, but were > > > included in the original specification and are in the Oct > > > 24th 2007 "B1 > > > manual". Currently the K3 fails to meet specification! > > > > > > Can we have some indication of their position on the > > > firmware roadmap? > > > > > > 73 Dave, G4AON > > > K3/100 #80 > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Grant Youngman
.....and sell your K3.
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