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K3 :: firmware update failure

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inventor61 .

K3 :: firmware update failure

I downloaded the new P3 utility and the latest firmware, plus the 4.12
release from the Elecraft server.

I've never had any problem on a firmware update, and the new load onto the
P3 worked just fine.

Then, I opened the K3 fw utility and proceeded to install the 4.12
revision.

First, a message popped up that said I have to shut the power off to the P3,
so I did.

Then, the process stopped. Inconsolable.

Now, the rig says 'MCU LD' and the TX light is flashing. The computer
cannot 'contact' the radio. Power cycles, and holding the power button to
force the bootloader are to no avail.

I will try connecting the serial port directly to the rig and attempt to
'fix' it that way. Any other suggestions?

Steve KZ1X/4
K1, K2 ... K3 ?
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Dick Dievendorff

Re: K3 :: firmware update failure

That should do it. Another suggestion is to turn the P3 power off in such a
way that it does not come on when you turn on the K3, before starting the
firmware load. Depending on how you set the P3 internal power on jumper,
that may require you to unplug the P3 from its power source.

The P3's initialization of the K3 is disturbing the MCU boot loader. The P3
sends a number of K3 commands from the K3 programmer's reference, but in the
"boot load" state, the K3 doesn't understand the K3 programmer's reference
command set. One of the commands puts the boot loader into a state where it
expects firmware frames.

If you turn everything off, remove the power plug from the back of your P3,
and then turn the K3 on and restart the K3 Utility, it should find the K3
and be able to load K3 firmware.

We're in the process of revising the P3 owner's manual to describe this
recovery sequence.

In time, P3 firmware won't put the K3 into that state, but we're not quite
there yet.

Dick, K6KR

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve Jackson
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 5:26 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 :: firmware update failure

I downloaded the new P3 utility and the latest firmware, plus the 4.12
release from the Elecraft server.

I've never had any problem on a firmware update, and the new load onto the
P3 worked just fine.

Then, I opened the K3 fw utility and proceeded to install the 4.12
revision.

First, a message popped up that said I have to shut the power off to the P3,
so I did.

Then, the process stopped. Inconsolable.

Now, the rig says 'MCU LD' and the TX light is flashing. The computer
cannot 'contact' the radio. Power cycles, and holding the power button to
force the bootloader are to no avail.

I will try connecting the serial port directly to the rig and attempt to
'fix' it that way. Any other suggestions?

Steve KZ1X/4
K1, K2 ... K3 ?
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 :: firmware update failure

In reply to this post by inventor61 .

Steve,

Are you using the latest K3 Utility? If not, download that first.
Then follow the instructions in the K3 Utility help file to force a K3
firmware load. You must unplug the power from the K3, not just cycle
with the power button.

If that does not work, perhaps Dick will help you.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/17/2010 8:26 PM, Steve Jackson wrote:

> I downloaded the new P3 utility and the latest firmware, plus the 4.12
> release from the Elecraft server.
>
> I've never had any problem on a firmware update, and the new load onto the
> P3 worked just fine.
>
> Then, I opened the K3 fw utility and proceeded to install the 4.12
> revision.
>
> First, a message popped up that said I have to shut the power off to the P3,
> so I did.
>
> Then, the process stopped. Inconsolable.
>
> Now, the rig says 'MCU LD' and the TX light is flashing. The computer
> cannot 'contact' the radio. Power cycles, and holding the power button to
> force the bootloader are to no avail.
>
> I will try connecting the serial port directly to the rig and attempt to
> 'fix' it that way. Any other suggestions?
>
>
> Steve KZ1X/4
> K1, K2 ... K3 ?
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

The Smiths

Re: K3 :: firmware update failure

In reply to this post by inventor61 .

Steve , you went through the same exact thing that I did. I had thought that I missed a step, and then shut down too early or something... I guess this is an issue with the beta software, UNLESS, you start with the P3 off.. This is KEY.
I did the power on button and the reset and NOTHING seemed to work..

I had the same issue with the polling not finding the rig. What I ended up having to do was 1 - Turned off the rig power supply, 2 - Closed the Port in the K3 utility under the "Ports" tab. Next I Then went into the windows "Control panel", selected "System", then into the "hardware" tab I selected "Device Manager". From there I went into the "com ports" area, and I opened the com port that I was using for the K3. I checked on the speed, changed it from the default 9600 to 115200 (or 34800 doesn't matter) and I hit apply. After that I hit okay. Even if you don't need to make a change, change it just to restart the ports brains...
I then moved the K3 serial cable over to the K3 (and out of the P3 completely)

Next I turned the power supply back on for the K3, then I HELD the power button down for 10 seconds (until the red light started blinking). After that I went back to the K3 Utility and I went to the "firmware" tab. I pushed the button that said "check versions now" then low and behold it finaly read the port again on the rig.. I then hit the Download ALL button and everything worked from there.

Give that a try and let me know if it doesn't work..I'm sure there's other ways to skin this cat...

> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 20:26:13 -0400
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 :: firmware update failure
>
> I downloaded the new P3 utility and the latest firmware, plus the 4.12
> release from the Elecraft server.
>
> I've never had any problem on a firmware update, and the new load onto the
> P3 worked just fine.
>
> Then, I opened the K3 fw utility and proceeded to install the 4.12
> revision.
>
> First, a message popped up that said I have to shut the power off to the P3,
> so I did.
>
> Then, the process stopped. Inconsolable.
>
> Now, the rig says 'MCU LD' and the TX light is flashing. The computer
> cannot 'contact' the radio. Power cycles, and holding the power button to
> force the bootloader are to no avail.
>
> I will try connecting the serial port directly to the rig and attempt to
> 'fix' it that way. Any other suggestions?
>
>
> Steve KZ1X/4
> K1, K2 ... K3 ?
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Dick Dievendorff

Re: K3 :: firmware update failure

This works, but it may be more complex than is required.

The P3 currently sends initialization commands to the K3 when the P3 starts
up, and it doesn't check before sending these commands that the K3 is acting
as a K3. If the K3 is in its "boot loader" (showing MCU LD in the LCD) some
of the commands sent by the P3 tell the K3 to start receiving firmware. In
that state we don't get responses from the radio except on firmware block
boundaries.

If you turn everything off (remove the power plug from the K3 and P3, and if
necessary, shut down the K3 Utility), then don't reinstall the P3 power
plug, then start the K3 and the K3 Utility, the program should find the
radio. There isn't a need to change the RS-232 cable, if the P3 stays off
there is a bypass relay within it for the RS-232 connection.

Some have reported that the COM port used by the K3 Utility is made unusable
when the P3 gets into this state. I believe that may be dependent on the
USB to Serial Adapter device driver you have. A PC reboot may be necessary
to free the COM port. The K3 Utility Closes the COM port handle during all
controlled termination scenarios except Task Manager termination. Windows
process termination closes all open handles, but sometimes the device driver
doesn't complete Close.

If the K3 is in "MCU LD" state, the P3 must stay off from the time the K3
power is turned on until the K3 firmware load is complete. It's not good
enough to turn the K3 on, have the P3 start up with it, and then turn the P3
off. During that brief period, the P3 sends the commands that influence the
K3's boot loader.

Usually you can just load firmware by turning the P3 off and sending the
firmware. But if anything goes wrong with the firmware load and you end up
in the K3 bootstrap loader (MCU LD on the front panel) at K3 startup, the P3
must stay off to recover.

I have my P3 jumpered to not start up with the K3. It needs an explicit
Power On button press, and I avoid this situation.

Ultimately this will be resolved by a P3 firmware change to determine the
K3's state before sending it commands that could influence the boot loader.

The P3 owner's manual is being updated with the details of this procedure.

73 de Dick, K6KR

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of The Smiths
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 11:08 PM
To: [hidden email]; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 :: firmware update failure

Steve , you went through the same exact thing that I did. I had thought
that I missed a step, and then shut down too early or something... I guess
this is an issue with the beta software, UNLESS, you start with the P3 off..
This is KEY.
I did the power on button and the reset and NOTHING seemed to work..

I had the same issue with the polling not finding the rig. What I ended up
having to do was 1 - Turned off the rig power supply, 2 - Closed the Port in
the K3 utility under the "Ports" tab. Next I Then went into the windows
"Control panel", selected "System", then into the "hardware" tab I selected
"Device Manager". From there I went into the "com ports" area, and I
opened the com port that I was using for the K3. I checked on the speed,
changed it from the default 9600 to 115200 (or 34800 doesn't matter) and I
hit apply. After that I hit okay. Even if you don't need to make a change,
change it just to restart the ports brains...
I then moved the K3 serial cable over to the K3 (and out of the P3
completely)

Next I turned the power supply back on for the K3, then I HELD the power
button down for 10 seconds (until the red light started blinking). After
that I went back to the K3 Utility and I went to the "firmware" tab. I
pushed the button that said "check versions now" then low and behold it
finaly read the port again on the rig.. I then hit the Download ALL button
and everything worked from there.

Give that a try and let me know if it doesn't work..I'm sure there's other
ways to skin this cat...

P3,

> so I did.
>
> Then, the process stopped. Inconsolable.
>
> Now, the rig says 'MCU LD' and the TX light is flashing. The computer
> cannot 'contact' the radio. Power cycles, and holding the power button to
> force the bootloader are to no avail.
>
> I will try connecting the serial port directly to the rig and attempt to
> 'fix' it that way. Any other suggestions?
>
>
> Steve KZ1X/4
> K1, K2 ... K3 ?
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Bill K9YEQ

Re: K3 :: firmware update failure

Let me add a note to the reflector about firmware updates so newcomers
aren't frightened off by the involved discussion on the reflector about this
topic. I find the process simple and it works well for upgrading any of the
K3 devices. The procedures for firmware updating both P3 and K3 aren't fool
proof. As those of us in the PC repair and building business know,
directions are important to follow. And be sure not to interrupt the state
of the update process by powering off the radio, computer or program before
it is complete if one doesn't want to mess it up.

Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dick Dievendorff
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 1:31 AM
To: 'The Smiths'; [hidden email]; 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 :: firmware update failure

This works, but it may be more complex than is required.

The P3 currently sends initialization commands to the K3 when the P3 starts
up, and it doesn't check before sending these commands that the K3 is acting
as a K3. If the K3 is in its "boot loader" (showing MCU LD in the LCD) some
of the commands sent by the P3 tell the K3 to start receiving firmware. In
that state we don't get responses from the radio except on firmware block
boundaries.

If you turn everything off (remove the power plug from the K3 and P3, and if
necessary, shut down the K3 Utility), then don't reinstall the P3 power
plug, then start the K3 and the K3 Utility, the program should find the
radio. There isn't a need to change the RS-232 cable, if the P3 stays off
there is a bypass relay within it for the RS-232 connection.

Some have reported that the COM port used by the K3 Utility is made unusable
when the P3 gets into this state. I believe that may be dependent on the
USB to Serial Adapter device driver you have. A PC reboot may be necessary
to free the COM port. The K3 Utility Closes the COM port handle during all
controlled termination scenarios except Task Manager termination. Windows
process termination closes all open handles, but sometimes the device driver
doesn't complete Close.

If the K3 is in "MCU LD" state, the P3 must stay off from the time the K3
power is turned on until the K3 firmware load is complete. It's not good
enough to turn the K3 on, have the P3 start up with it, and then turn the P3
off. During that brief period, the P3 sends the commands that influence the
K3's boot loader.

Usually you can just load firmware by turning the P3 off and sending the
firmware. But if anything goes wrong with the firmware load and you end up
in the K3 bootstrap loader (MCU LD on the front panel) at K3 startup, the P3
must stay off to recover.

I have my P3 jumpered to not start up with the K3. It needs an explicit
Power On button press, and I avoid this situation.

Ultimately this will be resolved by a P3 firmware change to determine the
K3's state before sending it commands that could influence the boot loader.

The P3 owner's manual is being updated with the details of this procedure.

73 de Dick, K6KR

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of The Smiths
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 11:08 PM
To: [hidden email]; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 :: firmware update failure

Steve , you went through the same exact thing that I did. I had thought
that I missed a step, and then shut down too early or something... I guess
this is an issue with the beta software, UNLESS, you start with the P3 off..
This is KEY.
I did the power on button and the reset and NOTHING seemed to work..

I had the same issue with the polling not finding the rig. What I ended up
having to do was 1 - Turned off the rig power supply, 2 - Closed the Port in
the K3 utility under the "Ports" tab. Next I Then went into the windows
"Control panel", selected "System", then into the "hardware" tab I selected
"Device Manager". From there I went into the "com ports" area, and I
opened the com port that I was using for the K3. I checked on the speed,
changed it from the default 9600 to 115200 (or 34800 doesn't matter) and I
hit apply. After that I hit okay. Even if you don't need to make a change,
change it just to restart the ports brains...
I then moved the K3 serial cable over to the K3 (and out of the P3
completely)

Next I turned the power supply back on for the K3, then I HELD the power
button down for 10 seconds (until the red light started blinking). After
that I went back to the K3 Utility and I went to the "firmware" tab. I
pushed the button that said "check versions now" then low and behold it
finaly read the port again on the rig.. I then hit the Download ALL button
and everything worked from there.

Give that a try and let me know if it doesn't work..I'm sure there's other
ways to skin this cat...

P3,

> so I did.
>
> Then, the process stopped. Inconsolable.
>
> Now, the rig says 'MCU LD' and the TX light is flashing. The computer
> cannot 'contact' the radio. Power cycles, and holding the power button
> to force the bootloader are to no avail.
>
> I will try connecting the serial port directly to the rig and attempt
> to 'fix' it that way. Any other suggestions?
>
>
> Steve KZ1X/4
> K1, K2 ... K3 ?
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Kok Chen

Re: K3 :: firmware update failure

On Sep 19, 2010, at 9/19 9:47 AM, Bill K9YEQ wrote:

> I find the process simple and it works well for upgrading any of
> the K3 devices. The procedures for firmware updating both P3 and K3
> aren't fool proof.

While better but still not 100% foolproof, the Canon cameras that I
have can be updated by first copying the firmware file into the same
memory card that holds the photos, and then commanding the camera
through a menu to update firmware. It does take away most of the
"scare factor" when updating the firmware.

That being said, by now there are probably amateur rigs that update
firmware through the ubiquitous USB memory stick.

A memory stick could be a good way to save menus and configs of a rig,
too. But you would need to add the cost of a USB connector and
perhaps an additional $5 AVR microprocessor. That could translate to
a burdened $20 on the end user, but it can save on support phone calls
and companies can perhaps eat some of the margin :-).

73
Chen, W7AY

______________________________________________________________
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Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Bill K9YEQ

Re: K3 :: firmware update failure

Chen,

When it comes to cameras... all bets are off, as personally, I think they
are bloat-ware and very processor overload. I have seen Canon, Kodak, Sony
and Nikon programs which are so "user friendly" to make a great working PC
turned into a sluggish piece of junk. I usually stop the startup processes
of all of them and show my customers how to download from their cameras and
sort their own so they don't lose the libraries and other dedicated to
manufacturer systems which can be a huge hassle.

Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Kok Chen
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:34 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 :: firmware update failure

On Sep 19, 2010, at 9/19 9:47 AM, Bill K9YEQ wrote:

> I find the process simple and it works well for upgrading any of the
> K3 devices. The procedures for firmware updating both P3 and K3
> aren't fool proof.

While better but still not 100% foolproof, the Canon cameras that I have can
be updated by first copying the firmware file into the same memory card that
holds the photos, and then commanding the camera through a menu to update
firmware. It does take away most of the "scare factor" when updating the
firmware.

That being said, by now there are probably amateur rigs that update firmware
through the ubiquitous USB memory stick.

A memory stick could be a good way to save menus and configs of a rig, too.
But you would need to add the cost of a USB connector and perhaps an
additional $5 AVR microprocessor. That could translate to a burdened $20 on
the end user, but it can save on support phone calls and companies can
perhaps eat some of the margin :-).

73
Chen, W7AY

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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Gary Gregory

Re: K3 :: firmware update failure

Bill,

You nailed that one.

Manufacturers have no interest in giving the user a choice other than they
expect us to load their software in the belief that when the next new model
comes out we will all rush down and buy it.

I do the same procedure as you have suggested and could not agree more.

73's
Gary

On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Bill K9YEQ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Chen,
>
> When it comes to cameras... all bets are off, as personally, I think they
> are bloat-ware and very processor overload. I have seen Canon, Kodak, Sony
> and Nikon programs which are so "user friendly" to make a great working PC
> turned into a sluggish piece of junk. I usually stop the startup processes
> of all of them and show my customers how to download from their cameras and
> sort their own so they don't lose the libraries and other dedicated to
> manufacturer systems which can be a huge hassle.
>
> Bill
> K9YEQ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Kok Chen
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:34 PM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 :: firmware update failure
>
> On Sep 19, 2010, at 9/19 9:47 AM, Bill K9YEQ wrote:
>
> > I find the process simple and it works well for upgrading any of the
> > K3 devices. The procedures for firmware updating both P3 and K3
> > aren't fool proof.
>
> While better but still not 100% foolproof, the Canon cameras that I have
> can
> be updated by first copying the firmware file into the same memory card
> that
> holds the photos, and then commanding the camera through a menu to update
> firmware. It does take away most of the "scare factor" when updating the
> firmware.
>
> That being said, by now there are probably amateur rigs that update
> firmware
> through the ubiquitous USB memory stick.
>
> A memory stick could be a good way to save menus and configs of a rig, too.
> But you would need to add the cost of a USB connector and perhaps an
> additional $5 AVR microprocessor. That could translate to a burdened $20
> on
> the end user, but it can save on support phone calls and companies can
> perhaps eat some of the margin :-).
>
> 73
> Chen, W7AY
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--
Gary
VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/
K3 #679
For everything else there's Mastercard!!!
______________________________________________________________
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