K3 freqs query

[Charly]

I need a list of the exact beginning and ending TRANSMIT frequencies of each
band of the K3.

Example..... 40 meters is 7.000 to 7.3000

Thanks,

Charles Harpole.....  HS0ZCW
[hidden email]

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[wayne burdick]

This may vary by country, Charles, but in general we'll cover exactly
the legal bands of operation, down to the nearest Hz. I don't have the
list in front of me, but it's probably available at arrl.org. It'll be
in the FAQ later.

There's a question about whether to allow out-of-band operation at
reduced power (like the K2), and how to enable MARS band operation,
etc. These issues are not settled, but they too will be covered in the
FAQ.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Jun 4, 2007, at 8:02 PM, Charles Harpole wrote:

> I need a list of the exact beginning and ending TRANSMIT frequencies
> of each band of the K3.
>
> Example..... 40 meters is 7.000 to 7.3000
>


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[Julian, G4ILO]

On 6/5/07, wayne burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
> This may vary by country, Charles, but in general we'll cover exactly
> the legal bands of operation, down to the nearest Hz.

Why not leave it up to the operator to know where the band edges are,
as did analogue radios of yore? Do hams really need a digital nanny to
remind them where the bands start and end? These limits only cause
frustration when the band allocations change (as did 40m a couple of
years ago here) or when you take the radio to operate abroad, or when
you want to use a transverter and need wider coverage than the band
used as the IF.

73,
--
Julian, G4ILO
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
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[Simon (HB9DRV)]

I agree with Julian - this could be programmed by the user, maybe via some
nice CAT commands. An advantage would be restricting a remote-controlled K3
from transmitting on bands where the antenna doesn't work / causes TVI /
interferes with the beer dispenser.

Those of us outside the FCC's control are allowed to think for ourselves,
please don't tie us down too much :-)

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian G4ILO" <[hidden email]>
>
> Why not leave it up to the operator to know where the band edges are,
> as did analogue radios of yore? Do hams really need a digital nanny to
> remind them where the bands start and end? These limits only cause
> frustration when the band allocations change (as did 40m a couple of
> years ago here) or when you take the radio to operate abroad, or when
> you want to use a transverter and need wider coverage than the band
> used as the IF.
>
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[dj7mgq]

> Why not leave it up to the operator to know where the band edges are,
> as did analogue radios of yore? Do hams really need a digital nanny to
> remind them where the bands start and end? These limits only cause
> frustration when the band allocations change (as did 40m a couple of
> years ago here) or when you take the radio to operate abroad, or when
> you want to use a transverter and need wider coverage than the band
> used as the IF.

I second this fully!

However some countries may require the "digital nanny"...

vy 73 de toby
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[David Cutter]

There's not much amateur radio activity outside the amateur radio bands   (:o]


David
G3UNA

>
> From: [hidden email]
> Date: 2007/06/05 Tue AM 10:01:59 BST
> To: Julian G4ILO <[hidden email]>
> CC: elecraft <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: K3 freqs query
>
> > Why not leave it up to the operator to know where the band edges are,
> > as did analogue radios of yore? Do hams really need a digital nanny to
> > remind them where the bands start and end? These limits only cause
> > frustration when the band allocations change (as did 40m a couple of
> > years ago here) or when you take the radio to operate abroad, or when
> > you want to use a transverter and need wider coverage than the band
> > used as the IF.
>
> I second this fully!
>
> However some countries may require the "digital nanny"...
>
> vy 73 de toby
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[dj7mgq]

Hi David,

> There's not much amateur radio activity outside the amateur radio bands  
> (:o]

True enough, but when using transverters the target band may well be wider than
the shortwave "IF" band.

I, for example, would like to be able to use 31 to 41MHz as a 10MHz wide IF.
Good for 70cm in DL and no conflicts with stations on 10m.

Also, a good transceiver can be used as a poor man's signal generator.

I wouldn't mind too much if Elecraft reduced power to say 10dBm outside of the
regular shotwave bands.

vy 73 de toby

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[ac0h]

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Hash: SHA1



Julian G4ILO wrote:
 Do hams really need a digital nanny to
> remind them where the bands start and end?

I think you'd be surprised.

In that vein, I wonder what our FCC regs say about manufacturers of Ham
equipment selling rigs that are "opened up" by default, and not the
usual 100KHz high or low?

- --
R. Kevin Stover, ACØH
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[Charly]

The country of my residence, Thailand, requires all transmitters (except cel
telephones) to be registered upon importation.  The Thai equiv. of FCC will
not approve a transmitter that transmitts out of the now-existing ham bands
and NOT ON SIX METERS NOR ON SIXTY METERS AT ALL.  If the transmitter, as
manufactured, covers, say 6.970 to 7.5, it is likely not to pass for being
imported into this country.

Julian, it is better for you to know these facts prior to your expressing an
opinion that could be construed as simple minded, or just uninformed.

Better luck next time,  73

Charles Harpole, HS0ZCW
[hidden email]

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[Martin Sole]

Hi,

Unfortunately the nannyless situation you find yourself in applies only to the
more fortunate countries. Their are many countries where we, all of us, would
like to promote amateur radio , which are controlled by rules and regulations
vastly different to those countries whose amateur populations have been the
backbone of the hobby for so long. Thailand, HS, where both I and the OP live is
one such country, please ponder this. Our only access 160 and 80 is the bottom
few tens of KHz and then only during 'international contests', we have no WARC
band access at all despite the 10, 18 and 24 MHz bands being reserved for
amateur radio heresince the 1980's. The increase of 40m from 100KHz to 200KHz as
occurred in many countries and as was agreed to by HS when it was voted on has
not even been slated for approval. 6 meters is currently not on the horizon of
the most far thinking people here, UHF transmitters are not allowed, there are
no microwave bands.  The authority here 'sells' voice channels in the
internationally agreed, but shared 80 meter band. Every single radio that is
brought into the country requires first an import licence which must show, based
on its specifications that it meets the rules of the country, every single radio
that is granted an import licence must physically be taken to the offices of the
regulatory body where it is tested for compliance. This is not by model, this is
every specimen. Ownership of RF components without an appropriate permit is an
offence. Communication equipment is regulated in the same way as firearms.

This may not be good but we do try to make it work and we do try to change
things. The last changes to amateur regulations here was more than 25 years ago.

We desperately need companies like Elecraft, only they will listen to our
requirements and help out. This was done some years ago with the K2. Even if we
had the money, and some of us do, we cannot buy other manufacturers top line
rigs, today almost all rigs, unless they remove 50MHz and provide documentation
to that effect. Which companies do you think might be willing to do that.

The original request was made because as a first start we need to get an import
licence for the K3. Charles has already ordered his, he's our guinea pig, there
are three or four more waiting in the wings, but we have to ensure we don't get
it refused at the first hurdle by it covering frequencies that are not allowed.

Regards

Martin, HS0ZED, G4UQF





Quoting Julian G4ILO <[hidden email]>:

> On 6/5/07, wayne burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > This may vary by country, Charles, but in general we'll cover exactly
> > the legal bands of operation, down to the nearest Hz.
>
> Why not leave it up to the operator to know where the band edges are,
> as did analogue radios of yore? Do hams really need a digital nanny to
> remind them where the bands start and end? These limits only cause
> frustration when the band allocations change (as did 40m a couple of
> years ago here) or when you take the radio to operate abroad, or when
> you want to use a transverter and need wider coverage than the band
> used as the IF.
>
> 73,
> --
> Julian, G4ILO
> G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
> K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
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[Julian, G4ILO]

On 6/5/07, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Unfortunately the nannyless situation you find yourself in applies only to the
> more fortunate countries.

I sympathise with your situation. I'd be more sympathetic if your
friend Charles hadn't written to me off-list calling me uninformed and
simple-minded for expressing my opinion.

These band limits may be necessary in your part of the world but they
are not in ours and I don't see why we should have to be saddled with
it. We pass exams to demonstrate competence to operate and even build
our own radios and it is absurd that we can not be trusted not to
operate out of band when using commercial equipment (of course, no
such controls over home-brew.)

The fact that some governments enforce such absurdity reflects only on
the stupidity of governments, not the validity of my argument.
--
Julian, G4ILO
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
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[John GM4SLV]

On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Unfortunately the nannyless situation you find yourself in applies only to the
> more fortunate countries.


<Snip tale of authoritarian woe>

I'm presuming that HS has enough attractions to make up for its poor
treatment of amateur radio, otherwise you wouldn't be there...


I don't see why the conditions imposed on you by the government you've
chosen to live under should determine how a piece of equipment I might
choose to use should function.

This is a technical hobby, not an appliance operators pastime...

Are you also saying that any multi-band commercially made rig should
only cover the bands available to you in Thailand, on the off chance
that you might want to import one?

Hang on...didn't you say that HS didn't have 6m or the WARC bands? Then
how are you going to get your K3s into the country, whether they
transmit out of band or not?

I'm confused!

I'm with Julian with this one - I have the knowledge and ability to
ensure I stay within the terms of my licence and don't need the radio to
do it for me. I'd rather have the utility of wide range TX coverage for
the myriad of uses it can be put to (legally) using my techical
abilities.

John GM4SLV

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[Charly]

John, u and others are vy fortunate to live where citizens' voices are often
heard by their governments.  Wake up and know about the rest of the world.



Charles Harpole
[hidden email]

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[wayne burdick]

Any constraints on frequency ranges will be *individually* applied to
K3s based on the country they're going to. No rules from one country
will be applied to that of another.

We'll allow transmit out of ham bands -- at some power level -- to the
extent allowed by law.

That's all I can say on this topic right now. Any further information
will be placed in the FAQ as it becomes available.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


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[Brian Lloyd-6]

On Jun 5, 2007, at 8:45 AM, John GM4SLV wrote:

>> Unfortunately the nannyless situation you find yourself in applies  
>> only to the
>> more fortunate countries.
>
>
> <Snip tale of authoritarian woe>
>
> I'm presuming that HS has enough attractions to make up for its poor
> treatment of amateur radio, otherwise you wouldn't be there...
> ...
> Hang on...didn't you say that HS didn't have 6m or the WARC bands?  
> Then
> how are you going to get your K3s into the country, whether they
> transmit out of band or not?

I agree, we should be able to make our radios do whatever we want  
them to do. That being said, many countries have regulations that  
limit what a radio may do in order to be approved for sale in that  
country. The easy solution is to put the limits in software so that  
the radio passes the regulatory requirements but allows the  
technically-savvy owner to make it do what they want it to. (wink-
wink, nudge-nudge)

73 de Brian, WB6RQN
Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com


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[Thom LaCosta]

On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, wayne burdick wrote:

> Any constraints on frequency ranges will be *individually* applied to K3s
> based on the country they're going to. No rules from one country will be
> applied to that of another.

Dang it Wayne....you guys are just too reasonable and show too much common
sense.  I guess not changing the logo or offering different case colors are the
buggy-whip, immutable conditions.

Thom,EIEIO k3hrn
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[Doug Faunt N6TQS [phone]]

I know it sounds exactly opposite to the purpose of the feature, but
will it be possible to change the frequency limits- i.e. if I want to
take my K3 on a trip to somewhere with restrictive rules?

Perhaps a special firmware download?

73, doug

   Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 12:06:21 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Thom LaCosta <[hidden email]>

   On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, wayne burdick wrote:

   > Any constraints on frequency ranges will be *individually* applied to K3s
   > based on the country they're going to. No rules from one country will be
   > applied to that of another.

   Dang it Wayne....you guys are just too reasonable and show too much
   common sense.  I guess not changing the logo or offering different
   case colors are the buggy-whip, immutable conditions.

   Thom,EIEIO k3hrn
   Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer

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[Charly]

There may be a difference between importing and register of a transmitter in
any one country or another and just passing thru with it.

I have taken my IC 706 thru several countries where it may or may not be
allowed but separate it into 2 parts and move on thru the airports to
another destination.  Staying somewhere with it is another matter for
individual discretion, of course.

Countries I know about with limits on carrying transmitters into their
borders....
Thailand
Burma
Lao (Laos)
Cambodia
India
Bhutan
Nepal

just to name a few.

Why are nations nervious abt xmitters in private hands?  Well, fighters in
Burma are reported to use ham rigs for military traffic.  Certainly, the ham
bands in SEAsia are cluttered with non-licensed operations using ham rigs
for private telephone-like use.  Sometimes more of that on 20m more than
licensed ham uses!  At least they use the "other" sideband.

73
Charles Harpole, HS0ZCW (VU3CHE, A52UD, XW1UD, 9N7UD, V26V,  ETC.)
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[Julian, G4ILO]

On 6/5/07, Doug Faunt N6TQS [phone] <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I know it sounds exactly opposite to the purpose of the feature, but
> will it be possible to change the frequency limits- i.e. if I want to
> take my K3 on a trip to somewhere with restrictive rules?
>
> Perhaps a special firmware download?
>

Perhaps the kit-built ones could be left to the builders to define the
limits - or not - since if they can manage to build the thing they
should know how to operate it.

--
Julian, G4ILO
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
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[W2AGN-2]

Charles Harpole wrote:

> Julian, it is better for you to know these facts prior to your
> expressing an opinion that could be construed as simple minded, or just
> uninformed.
>
> Better luck next time,  73
>
> Charles Harpole, HS0ZCW
> [hidden email]

My Goodness, aren't we rude?


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