K3 front panel assembly

[Vic K2VCO]

Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy wrote:

> There is no doubt in my mind that the availability of "plug and play"
> rigs and the growth of the ham population has increased interference
> levels from what they were in 1946.

Hello Geoff!

I don't remember the bands in 1946, but I do remember 1956. The 40 meter
CW band was pretty well-populated in evenings. There were jammers from
Eastern Europe, etc. And the 'phone bands had hetrodynes from the AM
carriers.

Today there is much less activity on the CW bands (except during
contests, when they are packed), but the 'phone bands are usually
well-populated with SSB.

However, the main thing that has changed is that there are so many more
sources of man-made noise. In addition to power poles, motors and
thermostats, etc. -- which we still suffer from -- there are now
countless digital devices that emit RF. Add to this the ubiquitous cheap
switching power supplies on things like desk lamps, and you have a big
increase in noise level.

That's why -- and here I'm getting on topic -- a radio like the K3,
which has (or will have) a hardware blanker for some kinds of impulse
noise, an IF DSP blanker for others, a AGC function to reduce the effect
of pulse-type noises, a DSP noise reduction function, the ability to use
very narrow bandwidths with minimal ringing, etc. is appropriate for
today's conditions.

Really a far cry from the "ANL" switch on the AM/CW receivers of 1957!

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[Brett gazdzinski-2]

 
On the assumption that people wanting little radios
could get or already have a K1, K2, etc.
And from looking at ads in QST and the AES catalog,
the big rigs get the attention, along with anything 'new'.

Sure, there are loads of people who would like an
expensive radio, like me, but I don't have $10,000.00
to plunk down for the really good ones.
I got an icom 756 pro cheap used, while a poor performer
compared to the Elecraft rigs on RX, it was a slick
package with lots of features, knobs, buttons, great displays,
real S meter, auto antenna tuner, 6 meters, in a bigger box.
It even came with a microphone!


It seems to me like there are LOADS of guys that have to have the
latest and greatest, as well as plenty of people who will get
whatever they can for the lowest cost.

I don't think Elecraft could compete with really cheap rigs or
used rigs, but they do real well with the great performing rigs.

>From a business standpoint, you want a bigger box and more features
that dazzle, like the multi color band scope, lots of knobs, some gold
trim highlights, and some heft to it.
That is what the usual suspects have been doing, add the Elecraft
high performance and it would sell like hotcakes!

Brett
N2DTS

>
> On 9/6/07, Brett gazdzinski
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I think they would sell many more bigger rigs to the general ham
> > population then they would sell revised K1's.
>
> On what evidence do you base this assertion? I haven't done a survey,
> but on the basis of the rigs people say they are using when I contact
> them, I would say the small / medium size radios are in the majority.
> A lot of people are even using mobile rigs (IC-706, IC-7000, FT-897
> etc.) as their main radios. That may be more to do with pricing than
> size, of course.
> --
> Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
> G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
> Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
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[Brett gazdzinski-2]

I  don't know if people want it smaller, or they push
smaller stuff to the people, or if it's a young thing, or what.
I do NOT want things smaller, my cell phone/camera is already so small
its very hard to use, look at aftermarket car radios, the buttons and
displays
are so small you have to stop and put your glasses on to read/change
anything,
handhelds have gotten so small they cant fit enough buttons and have menus
and multi function things that make them almost imposable to use
or figure out.

I got a VX-7r I hate, as you cant use it without the (thick)
instruction book, you cant even hold it without things getting in the way,
and it gets REAL hot.

No thanks, I want things bigger.

Now if I was back packing, I would like it to be small
and light, for the rest of it, I want it big and easy to use.

But maybe I am odd, my transmitters are 6 foot tall....


Brett
N2DTS

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of JT Croteau
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:07 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...
>
> People today seem to want everything to be smaller (except for their
> big screen TV's).  Everything is becoming smaller, not bigger.
>
> --
> JT Croteau, N1ESE - Manchester, NH
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[Tom Arntzen-2]

OK Guys!
I think you might missed Charles point.
The 706 is actually a super rig for what it was ment to do.
Running mobile HF or as with mk2g HF/VHF/UHF and portable setup as well.
That some has choosed to make it the primary rig is also understandable
since it has
such small footprintand it  is their choice and not to debate.
Likewise the K3 will probably be a super radio in it's divison targeting the
high end market.
So I think Charles point is a good one.

Tom LA1PHA


----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Harpole" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>;
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:35 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] the 706 of 2000+

> Again I say, the K3 will be the IC 706 of the new century.
>
> After the "followers" see what the "opinion leaders" have in the K3,
> virtually every active ham will have a K3, or be salavating for one.
>
> I have purchased (and sold some) seven IC-706 and see the rig as a
> phenomena.
>
> Charles Harpole
> [hidden email]
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
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[Matt Palmer-4]

I think we need to get with the times, i'm not saying a smaller box
for the k2, but i wouldnt mind seeing a surface mount version, which
would mean more space inside the box for user mods and tinkering, i
think with all the options installed everyone agrees the k2 is a tight
fit. And as much as everyone seems scared of smt, it seems to be the
same fear of toroids, there not that bad, theres nothing hard about
it, no magic spells to cast, it just takes a little practice, so the
sooner we get a kit radio we really really want, that requires us to
do a little surface mounting the sooner the ham community will " get
over itself"


(this is the 20 year year olds perspective though)

Matt
KD8DAO

On 9/6/07, Brett gazdzinski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I  don't know if people want it smaller, or they push
> smaller stuff to the people, or if it's a young thing, or what.
> I do NOT want things smaller, my cell phone/camera is already so small
> its very hard to use, look at aftermarket car radios, the buttons and
> displays
> are so small you have to stop and put your glasses on to read/change
> anything,
> handhelds have gotten so small they cant fit enough buttons and have menus
> and multi function things that make them almost imposable to use
> or figure out.
>
> I got a VX-7r I hate, as you cant use it without the (thick)
> instruction book, you cant even hold it without things getting in the way,
> and it gets REAL hot.
>
> No thanks, I want things bigger.
>
> Now if I was back packing, I would like it to be small
> and light, for the rest of it, I want it big and easy to use.
>
> But maybe I am odd, my transmitters are 6 foot tall....
>
>
> Brett
> N2DTS
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email]
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of JT Croteau
> > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:07 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...
> >
> > People today seem to want everything to be smaller (except for their
> > big screen TV's).  Everything is becoming smaller, not bigger.
> >
> > --
> > JT Croteau, N1ESE - Manchester, NH
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
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> >
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> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
> >
>
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[AJSOENKE]

Puzzles me that some would see the negative side  of competition. If you
think the kids at the local schools can't deal with  competition or somehow shun
it, just go to the local high school football game  on a Friday night - that
cheering is coming from the stands! They are competing  right along with the
ones in the mud.
Ever wonder why computer games are more  popular than ham radio?  And its not
just playing against the machine. The  competition on the net gaming is
fierce.  What do my students look forward  to most of all?
1. Get to build their own radios.
2. Getting to compete to  see whose rig is best performer, who finishes
first, who get their license  first, who gets the first contact, who gets first dx,
who gets the top score in  the next contest, who. . .
3. When they are worn out by Ham radio they can't  wait to  do the next logic
game design project so elementary school kids  can have more classroom
competitive games. ( we make a game that allows students  to play a classroom sized
version of the TV game show 'Jeopardy' ). Teachers'  love them because the
kids love them. Can't make enough of them.

Al  WA6VNN (Instructor of all things electronic at www.dphs.org )  




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[Charly]

Face it, MOST operators like a large front panel.



Charles Harpole
[hidden email]

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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Charles,

I cannot support that assumption, but then maybe I am not among the
"MOST operators".

Convenience for the most used functions is in order (and the K2 is
sufficient in that regard, the K3 will be better), but having a knob for
each and every function available on the radio is just not necessary in
most operating environments IMHO.  The desires of the contest operator
will of course, be different than for a casual operator, but too many
buttons and knobs gets in the way of most operating scenarios that I can
imagine.  If one desires a larger front panel, there is always HRD or
N4PY software to 'fix' that problem - if the resulting software panel is
not large enough, one can always get a larger monitor.

73,
Don W3FPR

Charles Harpole wrote:
> Face it, MOST operators like a large front panel.
>
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[Simon (HB9DRV)]

Indeed - I have a K3 on order and would pay $1,000 more for a nice 19" big
panel. Same as we have now, just bigger. Bigger buttons, bigger labels, nice
4" tuning knob (like the FTDX-9000).

The age profile of Hams who can afford new radios must show that we're
suffering from the age-related problems such as poor eyesight, less flexible
fingers and easy confusion when presented with lots of small buttons (one
reason why I like my TS-480SAT).

So - for me the K4 would be the K3 in a bigger box with maybe a nice big
speaker and 10W audio amp. I don't need a panoramic display there - nice but
not essential as I would plug a 19" monitor into the radio / panoramic
display unit anyway.

An example of a nice clean layout in a big radio is the up-coming ICOM
IC-7700, much better than the overloaded IC-7800 front panel as the IC-7700
doesn't have to cope with dual receivers.

Bottom line I guess - I don't want to wear my reading glasses to use the K3.
Got to find the glasses first which always takes 10 minutes.

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Harpole" <[hidden email]>


> Face it, MOST operators like a large front panel.

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[Simon (HB9DRV)]

Elecraft did say the K3 was built to the size it is - and by the number of
orders taken they obviously made the correct decision (I managed to hold out
for 24 hours). The layout and usage will be great - but something like my
old Drake TR-7 was simpler to use (just like the operator).

The Who summed it up in 1971: 'Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy', just the way I
want my radios :-)

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Harpole" <[hidden email]>


>
> My IC-775dsp is a BIG rig and I love operating it, and it has NO menus but
> a knob for everything.... ideal for HAM RADIO, not commercial or whatever.

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[Julian, G4ILO]

Perhaps the solution is to think outside the box. Literally.

I mean, there is no need for a bandscope to be part of the radio main
display, just because Icom does it that way. All that is needed is a
plug-in module that can be added with a coaxial socket on it, that can
be plugged in to an external display. You could even use a portable
LCD TV for the display, as some IC-7000 users do because the built in
one is too small.

For quick access to control functions something like a TV remote
control could be used. You would need an infra red module in the K3.
Perhaps an actual TV remote could be used to save costs. Some of these
are highly programmable with a touch screen. Or you could use
dedicated software on a PDA.

--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com


On 9/7/07, Simon Brown (HB9DRV) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Elecraft did say the K3 was built to the size it is - and by the number of
> orders taken they obviously made the correct decision (I managed to hold out
> for 24 hours). The layout and usage will be great - but something like my
> old Drake TR-7 was simpler to use (just like the operator).
>
> The Who summed it up in 1971: 'Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy', just the way I
> want my radios :-)
>
> Simon Brown, HB9DRV
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charles Harpole" <[hidden email]>
>
>
> >
> > My IC-775dsp is a BIG rig and I love operating it, and it has NO menus but
> > a knob for everything.... ideal for HAM RADIO, not commercial or whatever.
>
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[N2EY]

In a message dated 9/6/07 2:30:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:


>   don't know if people want it smaller, or they push
> smaller stuff to the people, or if it's a young thing, or what.
>

1) Smaller is usually less expensive to make, to pack, and to ship. (Smaller
usually also means lighter, too).

2) A small thing can be used in more places than a large one. Like mobile.

3) As homes tend not to have basements and usable attics, people have less
space. Yet they also tend to have/want more stuff. If the stuff is smaller, they
can have more of it.

4) The size of old things was often determined by the size of the parts
inside, and how much heat they gave off. Look at an ARC-5 receiver or transmitter -
it can't get much smaller. As parts have shrunk, so have front panels.

5) If people buy the smaller stuff, the mfrs. make it.

This isn't a new thing. Back in the 1960s, W9BRD's "How's DX" column carried
a story about how the author was trying out a new rig loaned by a friend. Nice
"little" modern transceiver (NCX-3?) but the shack Siamese cat, Madame Mu,
didn't like it because she could not comfortably rest atop it.

73 de Jim, N2EY


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[Charly]

Even today's rigs have plenty of panel space only today that part is called
the top (or the bottom).

I say, set it on its rear .....  Computer tower configurations won out over
the flat type like the first IBM PCs cases.... ham radio can do that too.

Which do u want
Low and deep
Wide and shallow
?

Charles Harpole
[hidden email]

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[dj7mgq]

To tell you the truth, based on years spent in TV control rooms and edit suites,
I feel the ideal setup would be panels with large buttons, sliders and shuttle
style knobs, sunk in the surface of the table. Might end up looking a bit like
these: <http://www.parabol.de/parabol/bilder/Geraete_Videomischer_MX12.jpg>,
<http://www.medien.fh-wiesbaden.de/img/impressionen_galerie_campus_08.jpg> or
<http://data1.blog.de/blog/s/sammelsura/img/schnittpult.jpg>.


vy 73 de toby
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[John Huggins]

Another question is, for the contester, which transmitter and receiver
parameters deserve their very own control knob?

John

Charles Harpole wrote:

> Even today's rigs have plenty of panel space only today that part is
> called the top (or the bottom).
>
> I say, set it on its rear .....  Computer tower configurations won out
> over the flat type like the first IBM PCs cases.... ham radio can do
> that too.
>
> Which do u want
> Low and deep
> Wide and shallow
> ?
>
> Charles Harpole
> [hidden email]
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
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[N8LP]

Sounds like our careers are similar, Toby. For decades I sat in front of
an array of switchers, mixers, edit controllers, etc., but from the late
'90s until I retired it was all done with SGI workstations. The old
style is definitely faster for live production, but for complex
post-production you can't beat the computer approach which integrates
editing, audio and CGI into one intuitive application... and one
"decision list".  Sort of like traditional rigs vs. SDRs.

I made my decision to go with the K3 vs. something like a Flex 5000,
mainly because I do simple operation and speed and performance is more
important to me than complexity in my old age ;-) Also, of course,
because I can build and maintain it ;-)

73,
Larry N8LP



[hidden email] wrote:

> To tell you the truth, based on years spent in TV control rooms and edit suites,
> I feel the ideal setup would be panels with large buttons, sliders and shuttle
> style knobs, sunk in the surface of the table. Might end up looking a bit like
> these: <http://www.parabol.de/parabol/bilder/Geraete_Videomischer_MX12.jpg>,
> <http://www.medien.fh-wiesbaden.de/img/impressionen_galerie_campus_08.jpg> or
> <http://data1.blog.de/blog/s/sammelsura/img/schnittpult.jpg>.
>
>
> vy 73 de toby
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[Brett gazdzinski-2]

If you ever used one of the 756 series rigs, you know
just how nice the display is, and its nice having it all in one box
and not having to move/carry a screen along if you move things.

You can put a lot of information on a screen like that, and icom
was smart enough to also use a real mechanical meter along with
the very nice display.
The band scope is a very nice feature, although you might not
think so till you use one, but its only part of the nice display.
You can turn it off and copy rtty, access all kinds of options, show
loads of very detailed info at the same time, etc.
Its not a big box, but it is quite heavy.

The 756 pro series is a very nice radio, except for its abysmal
performance on receive.
At about $1200.00 it's a good buy for a used rig if you don't
mind the wide front end...

Brett
N2DTS
 

>
> Perhaps the solution is to think outside the box. Literally.
>
> I mean, there is no need for a bandscope to be part of the radio main
> display, just because Icom does it that way. All that is needed is a
> plug-in module that can be added with a coaxial socket on it, that can
> be plugged in to an external display. You could even use a portable
> LCD TV for the display, as some IC-7000 users do because the built in
> one is too small.
>
> For quick access to control functions something like a TV remote
> control could be used. You would need an infra red module in the K3.
> Perhaps an actual TV remote could be used to save costs. Some of these
> are highly programmable with a touch screen. Or you could use
> dedicated software on a PDA.
>
> --
> Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
> G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
> Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
>

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[dj7mgq]

Hi Larry,

> Sounds like our careers are similar, Toby. For decades I sat in front of
.. ...
> "decision list".

That is why I think the "old style" would make sense for ham radio. It is live
and not post production. Non-linear setups are fantastic for 'after the fact'
editing but not for live events such as sports.

Having to move my hands and "center of attention" from horizontal to vertical
and back has always bugged me. And wouldn't a shuttle/jog knob for tuning be
wonderful?

vy 73 de toby
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[Julian, G4ILO]

That would be the advantage of a CAT program software interface - at
least, a theoretical advantage since I haven't seen a program that
actually does this. You could allow the user to design their own
interface. Give them a palette of knobs and buttons and displays, let
them set properties to say what parameter they controlled or showed.

I actually thought of writing a program like this, but it is easier
said than done and programming is not much fun, especially when it's
more or less what you do all day for a living, so the idea never got
off the drawing board.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com


On 9/7/07, John Huggins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Another question is, for the contester, which transmitter and receiver
> parameters deserve their very own control knob?
>
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[Julian, G4ILO]

Yep, I had one. I sold it soon after I got my K2. Never really missed it.

--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com


On 9/7/07, Brett gazdzinski <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If you ever used one of the 756 series rigs, you know
> just how nice the display is, and its nice having it all in one box
> and not having to move/carry a screen along if you move things.
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