K3 - modes and band/freq

[M0XDF]

I appear to be having some problems with MacLoggerDX and the K3 (the author,
Don and I are in communication on this).
It looks like when sending a mode change, followed by a freq change, that
the mode does change at the current freq, then the freq changes and the mode
is commonly LSB. This is when double-clicking a DX Cluster entry.
If I send a mode change from the interface, that changes ok. If I resend the
mode/freq change by double-clicking again, it sets it correctly the second
time.

If I manually change the mode for the freq, using the K3 [MODE] button, the
K3 appear to remember the mode.

One question Don has is 'Can you check the K3 manual to see if has some kind
of "Auto Mode" selection based on frequency ?'

Well, I couldn't see anything that said so, so thought I'd ask here.

I also thought Simon and Julian  - both if whom have written PC software,
may be able to shed some light on this?

I would like to make it clear that MLDX works with many radios without
problems, including K2, and works with my FT-857. It's a great program.

No finger pointing, just trying to get to grips with the combo of great rig
and great s/w.

--
God gives every bird his worm, but he does not throw it into the nest.
-Swedish proverb


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[Brendan Minish]

here is a possible explanation as to why some programs that do
interfacing the kenwood way have issues with elecraft radios, I hope it
helps understand the issue.

Kenwood protocol predates the per-band memories that modern radios have,
I.e the radio saves the mode and frequency you were last on, on each
band.
If you send a mode, does the radio then have to wait X milliseconds
before acting on it to see if there is a frequency change coming next
that also will change the band ?
How long should the radio wait?  
How long should X be? Kenwood have never defined it any place..  
Problem with this is that doing it this way slows down considerably the
speed at which the radio can respond to commands, not a good thing if
the application is doing more than simple logging or QSying.


Or does the radio always apply the Mode change immediately?

Then when the frequency change comes a long a bit later we arrive on the
new frequency, in the mode used last time on that band. ?


Problem with this is that this breaks the original kenwood way of doing
things. On the up-side you can send commands to the radio much faster
and there is no ambiguity at all about what is going to happen.
 All commands are acted upon as quickly as possible and in the exact
order in which they are sent to the radio.

On the downside it breaks things where software is doing it the original
kenwood way  


the K3 and the k2 both do things in the strict order that the commands
arrive. it is my view that this is more correct.

73
Brendan EI6IZ


On Wed, 2008-01-02 at 15:38 +0000, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:

> I appear to be having some problems with MacLoggerDX and the K3 (the author,
> Don and I are in communication on this).
> It looks like when sending a mode change, followed by a freq change, that
> the mode does change at the current freq, then the freq changes and the mode
> is commonly LSB. This is when double-clicking a DX Cluster entry.
> If I send a mode change from the interface, that changes ok. If I resend the
> mode/freq change by double-clicking again, it sets it correctly the second
> time.
>
> If I manually change the mode for the freq, using the K3 [MODE] button, the
> K3 appear to remember the mode.
>
> One question Don has is 'Can you check the K3 manual to see if has some kind
> of "Auto Mode" selection based on frequency ?'
>
> Well, I couldn't see anything that said so, so thought I'd ask here.
>
> I also thought Simon and Julian  - both if whom have written PC software,
> may be able to shed some light on this?
>
> I would like to make it clear that MLDX works with many radios without
> problems, including K2, and works with my FT-857. It's a great program.
>
> No finger pointing, just trying to get to grips with the combo of great rig
> and great s/w.
>

--
Don‘t complain. Nobody will understand. Or care. And certainly don‘t try
to fix the situation yourself. It‘s dangerous. Leave it to a highly
untrained, unqualified, expendable professional.

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[Dick Dievendorff]

I don't believe there's any automatic mode change based on frequency / band
plan.  However you can verify this yourself by using the K3 Utility's
"Command Tester" tab page to execute various commands to see what happens.

FA gets/sets the VFO
MD gets/sets the Mode.

You can also set up a command "macro" to issue several commands in a row
with one button press.

The K3 Programmer's reference is available here:

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K3%20Pgmrs%20Ref,%20rev%20A4.pdf

73 de Dick, K6KR


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Ferrington,
M0XDF
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 7:39 AM
To: elecraft
Cc: Don Agro
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - modes and band/freq

I appear to be having some problems with MacLoggerDX and the K3 (the author,
Don and I are in communication on this).
It looks like when sending a mode change, followed by a freq change, that
the mode does change at the current freq, then the freq changes and the mode
is commonly LSB. This is when double-clicking a DX Cluster entry.
If I send a mode change from the interface, that changes ok. If I resend the
mode/freq change by double-clicking again, it sets it correctly the second
time.

If I manually change the mode for the freq, using the K3 [MODE] button, the
K3 appear to remember the mode.

One question Don has is 'Can you check the K3 manual to see if has some kind
of "Auto Mode" selection based on frequency ?'

Well, I couldn't see anything that said so, so thought I'd ask here.

I also thought Simon and Julian  - both if whom have written PC software,
may be able to shed some light on this?

I would like to make it clear that MLDX works with many radios without
problems, including K2, and works with my FT-857. It's a great program.

No finger pointing, just trying to get to grips with the combo of great rig
and great s/w.

--
God gives every bird his worm, but he does not throw it into the nest.
-Swedish proverb


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[Dan Barker]

Just change the frequency first, and then set the desired mode. The radio
(whatever it's make or logic) will do what the programmer (operator) wants.

Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456

<snip>
Kenwood protocol predates the per-band memories that modern radios have, I.e
the radio saves the mode and frequency you were last on, on each band.
If you send a mode, does the radio then have to wait X milliseconds before
acting on it to see if there is a frequency change coming next that also
will change the band ?
How long should the radio wait?  
How long should X be? Kenwood have never defined it any place..  
Problem with this is that doing it this way slows down considerably the
speed at which the radio can respond to commands, not a good thing if the
application is doing more than simple logging or QSying.
</snip>

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[Julian, G4ILO]

M0XDF wrote

I also thought Simon and Julian  - both if whom have written PC software,
may be able to shed some light on this?

In my own software I have never attempted to set the mode of the K2 based on frequency or anything stored by the software. So I have not encountered this. If I change band, the K2 sends back the new frequency and also the mode it is now in, and the software records this. No conflict.

I do seem to recall that MixW, which does have the facility to set the mode according to the frequency being entered, tends to fight with the K2's own band/mode memory when its DXCluster window is used. Clearly the scope for conflict exists. It would be better if the radio did not try to change the mode after changing band if used with software that tries to do this. Otherwise the software could probably work around this by changing the frequency, waiting for the radio to report back the mode, and then (if necessary) sending a mode change.