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[K3] - mods and solder

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M0XDF

[K3] - mods and solder

Well, all this talk of mods got me wondering and I liek some opinions
from this group - I KNOW some of you know a lot about solder.

Resin core solder - thats not acid flux is it?

Most of my solder came from my time with electronics in defense over
30 years ago.

I have 2 reels that are labelled:

Ersin non-corrosive flux made by Ersin Multicore Solder and has 362
Flux, DTD599, BS441, Type 1 written on the label.
This is 18 SWG, .048", 1.2mm (this is a time when you got told every
which way)

The other roll is only 2 years old, is from RS (that's Radio Spares in
UK) but made by Multicore and supposedly low temp (melts at 183 C).
It has 'Crystal 400 60/40 Tin/Lead EN29453, S-Sn60Pb40E on it and is
0.7mm

So I'm guessing that the later would be preferable for use on the K3
and on my XV144 which I'm about to start.
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174
--
Black holes are where God divided by zero.
-Steven Wright, comedian (1955-)

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Gary Hvizdak

RE: [K3] - mods and solder

At 0315 EST on Wednesday April 2nd 2008 David Ferrington (M0XDF) wrote ...

... I KNOW some of you know a lot about solder. ...

--

Hi Dave,

Your 60/40 solder could possibly result in what are referred to as
"cold" or "disturbed" solder joints. If I were you I'd only use that stuff
for non-electrical hobby projects such as leaded glass, and jewelry.

For best results I would suggest eutectic solder which is an alloy
composed of 63% tin and 37% lead. In addition to it's having a lower
melting point, it also transitions pretty much instantly from a liquid to a
solid, without any intervening "plastic" state.

In addition your .048" solder is much to thick for SMD work. I suggest
something in the neighborhood of 0.020", plus or minus 0.005". (You need to

match your solder size to your task, being careful that the solder isn't too

fine as this could result the flux burning off before it does its job, which

is to clean the surfaces to be soldered of any oxidation.)

Regarding the flux, your best bet is a mildly activated rosin core flux.

FYI, here mildly activated is a reference to the temperature at which the
rosin melts (so that it can do it's job).

DO NOT USE WATER SOLUBLE FLUX AS YOU WILL VOID THE WARRANTY OF WHATEVER
IT TOUCHES! WATER SOLUBLE FLUX IS HIGHLY CORROSIVE AND HYDROSCOPIC. NEVER
EVER USE IT WITH INSULATED WIRE (ESPECIALLY STRANDED) AS IT WILL WICK UP
UNDER THE INSULATION WHERE IT CAN'T BE COMPLETELY REMOVED. OVER TIME IT
WILL EAT RIGHT THROUGH THE WIRE!

SIMILARLY DO NOT USE ACID CORE SOLDER!

No-clean fluxes are okay, but they have a higher activation temperature
and you should have some experience with them before using them on something

as expensive as the K3. The advantage of no clean fluxes is that they only
leave about 3% of the residue left by a traditional rosin flux.

BTW, I won't even go into the subject of whether or not to remove the
flux and how to go about doing that. If you are interested you can see my
previous post on this subject in the archives here ...
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2005-November/049886.html

73,
Gary KI4GGX

P.S. I don't know a lot about solder, but I work with someone who does!

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M0XDF

Re: [K3] - mods and solder

ok, thanks for that, the latest RS stuff says:
Crystal 400 60/40 Tin/Lead EN29453, S-Sn60Pb40E

the Elecraft HAGC mod instructions for SMD say
63/37 or 60/40 Sn/Pb-content rosin-core solder, 0.015" to 0.025"
diameter

so my S-Sn60Pb40E looks like thats the same alloy, not sure what the
'E' means.
it's 0.7mm, which is 0.027559055" (ok, conversion widget!)
so although thats a little over (by 0.002!) that would look to be ok.

I failed to mention that I have done a fair amount of soldering in my
time (taught as an electronics apprentice and worked in defense
electronics for 8 years), so don't have a problem with soldering.

I just didn't know about the make up of the solder - but of course
'clicked' after your post.

Thank you Gary
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174
--
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.

On 2 Apr 2008, at 11:27, Gary Hvizdak wrote:

> At 0315 EST on Wednesday April 2nd 2008 David Ferrington (M0XDF)
> wrote ...
>
> ... I KNOW some of you know a lot about solder. ...
>
> --
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> Your 60/40 solder could possibly result in what are referred to as
> "cold" or "disturbed" solder joints. If I were you I'd only use
> that stuff
> for non-electrical hobby projects such as leaded glass, and jewelry.
>
> For best results I would suggest eutectic solder which is an alloy
> composed of 63% tin and 37% lead. In addition to it's having a lower
> melting point, it also transitions pretty much instantly from a
> liquid to a
> solid, without any intervening "plastic" state.
>
> In addition your .048" solder is much to thick for SMD work. I
> suggest
> something in the neighborhood of 0.020", plus or minus 0.005". (You
> need to
>
> match your solder size to your task, being careful that the solder
> isn't too
>
> fine as this could result the flux burning off before it does its
> job, which
>
> is to clean the surfaces to be soldered of any oxidation.)
>
> Regarding the flux, your best bet is a mildly activated rosin
> core flux.
>
> FYI, here mildly activated is a reference to the temperature at
> which the
> rosin melts (so that it can do it's job).
>
> DO NOT USE WATER SOLUBLE FLUX AS YOU WILL VOID THE WARRANTY OF
> WHATEVER
> IT TOUCHES! WATER SOLUBLE FLUX IS HIGHLY CORROSIVE AND
> HYDROSCOPIC. NEVER
> EVER USE IT WITH INSULATED WIRE (ESPECIALLY STRANDED) AS IT WILL
> WICK UP
> UNDER THE INSULATION WHERE IT CAN'T BE COMPLETELY REMOVED. OVER
> TIME IT
> WILL EAT RIGHT THROUGH THE WIRE!
>
> SIMILARLY DO NOT USE ACID CORE SOLDER!
>
> No-clean fluxes are okay, but they have a higher activation
> temperature
> and you should have some experience with them before using them on
> something
>
> as expensive as the K3. The advantage of no clean fluxes is that
> they only
> leave about 3% of the residue left by a traditional rosin flux.
>
> BTW, I won't even go into the subject of whether or not to remove
> the
> flux and how to go about doing that. If you are interested you can
> see my
> previous post on this subject in the archives here ...
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2005-November/049886.html
>
> 73,
> Gary KI4GGX
>
> P.S. I don't know a lot about solder, but I work with someone who
> does!

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Alan Bloom

Re: [K3] - mods and solder

In reply to this post by M0XDF

Some years ago when I was a Materials Engineer for Hewlett Packard,
solder was one of my categories.

The purpose of flux is to "reduce" (eat away) the oxide coating on the
copper so the solder can stick to it and also as a wetting agent to
reduce the surface tension of the molten solder and to prevent oxygen
from contacting the metal while soldering is taking place. There are
three main types:

Acid flux is the type used by plumbers for soldering pipes and should
never be used for electronic work.

Water-soluble flux is OK for electronic work only if it is washed off
after the soldering job is complete.

Rosin flux is the type normally used for hand-soldering electronic
assemblies. It comes in various activity levels. Fully-activated (RA)
flux works the best but is the most corrosive. Mildly-activated (RMA)
flux is what is usually used. RMA flux does not need to be removed
after soldering - the rosin seals in the activator where it can do no
harm. However, if you do decide to remove it using alcohol or some
other solvent, it is very important that it be removed completely. If
you leave a film of left-over flux on the board it can cause long-term
corrosion.

Lead-free solder is all the rage now as it is required in Europe for
environmental reasons. However, standard tin-lead solder is easier to
use (lower melting temperature) and cheaper so I recommend it for hobby
use. If you're worried about lead poisoning, wash your hands after use.

Plumbers use a 50/50 tin-lead alloy. It is cheaper than electronic
solder and has a temperature range where it is kind of "pasty", neither
solid or liquid, which is useful when soldering pipes.

For electronics use, you want 60/40 or 63/37. The 63/37 is "eutectic"
which means there is no "pasty" range - it changes directly from solid
to liquid at 360 degF (182 degC). The 60/40 alloy has a slightly higher
melting point but is so close to eutectic that you won't notice the
difference.

The 0.048-inch diameter solder is fine for soldering through-hole
components, but would be a bit awkward for surface-mount parts,
especially the small ones. Your 0.028-inch/0.7-mm stuff would probably
work better. I use 0.014-inch (0.36 mm) rosin-core solder which is
adequate even for fine-pitch ICs.

Al N1AL

On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 00:15, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:

> Well, all this talk of mods got me wondering and I liek some opinions
> from this group - I KNOW some of you know a lot about solder.
>
> Resin core solder - thats not acid flux is it?
>
> Most of my solder came from my time with electronics in defense over
> 30 years ago.
>
> I have 2 reels that are labelled:
>
> Ersin non-corrosive flux made by Ersin Multicore Solder and has 362
> Flux, DTD599, BS441, Type 1 written on the label.
> This is 18 SWG, .048", 1.2mm (this is a time when you got told every
> which way)
>
> The other roll is only 2 years old, is from RS (that's Radio Spares in
> UK) but made by Multicore and supposedly low temp (melts at 183 C).
> It has 'Crystal 400 60/40 Tin/Lead EN29453, S-Sn60Pb40E on it and is
> 0.7mm
>
> So I'm guessing that the later would be preferable for use on the K3
> and on my XV144 which I'm about to start.
> 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174

Vic K2VCO

Re: [K3] - mods and solder

Alan Bloom wrote:

> Water-soluble flux is OK for electronic work only if it is washed off
> after the soldering job is complete.

It's very hard to wash off completely and is usually used for mechanized
soldering. It's not recommended by Elecraft. If you don't wash it off
completely, what's left absorbs moisture from the air and becomes
conductive.

> Lead-free solder is all the rage now as it is required in Europe for
> environmental reasons. However, standard tin-lead solder is easier to
> use (lower melting temperature) and cheaper so I recommend it for hobby
> use. If you're worried about lead poisoning, wash your hands after use.

There are also issues with long-term stability of lead-free solder (it
grows whiskers) and other problems.

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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M0XDF

Re: [K3] - mods and solder

In reply to this post by Alan Bloom

Thanks much, very informative and useful.
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174
--
A good cook is like a sorceress who dispenses happiness.
-Elsa Schiaparelli, fashion designer (1890-1973)

On 2 Apr 2008, at 17:23, Alan Bloom wrote:
> Some years ago when I was a Materials Engineer for Hewlett Packard,
> solder was one of my categories.

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Jim Cox

Re: [K3] - mods and solder

In reply to this post by Vic K2VCO

Will this thread ever die a graceful death?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vic K2VCO" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] - mods and solder

> Alan Bloom wrote:
>
>> Water-soluble flux is OK for electronic work only if it is washed off
>> after the soldering job is complete.
>
> It's very hard to wash off completely and is usually used for mechanized
> soldering. It's not recommended by Elecraft. If you don't wash it off
> completely, what's left absorbs moisture from the air and becomes
> conductive.
>
>> Lead-free solder is all the rage now as it is required in Europe for
>> environmental reasons. However, standard tin-lead solder is easier to
>> use (lower melting temperature) and cheaper so I recommend it for hobby
>> use. If you're worried about lead poisoning, wash your hands after use.
>
> There are also issues with long-term stability of lead-free solder (it
> grows whiskers) and other problems.
>
> --
> 73,
> Vic, K2VCO
> Fresno CA
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

AC7AC

RE: [K3] - mods and solder

In reply to this post by Vic K2VCO

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