K3: new to wish-list - KEY OUT setting in menu (to be more like PTT OUT) for CW PTT mode

[Alexandr Kobranov]

Hello Elcrafters,

it was tested that KEY OUT port (rear panel of K3) is not in CW PTT
mode acting as PTT OUT (how was wrongly supposed to be) and this was
confirmed by Elecraft as intentional behavior but that if there will
be some feedback/requests from customers, maybe will be possible to
set this in Menu sometimes later.

Now - in CW mode - KEY OUT port is activated by pressing of the Key
even if VOX(QSK) is off and K3 is in pure PTT mode. This pressing of
the Key is activating Sidetone, TX LED and KEY OUT going to GND. No RF
is going out - it is OK - but the rest of system (linears,
transverters, preamp relays on tower,...) is going to TX and back.
Only by unwanted touching of the Key without PTT on.
(On many trasceivers is only sidetone generated by pressing the Key to
check pitch for zero-beat tuning but no one  I had on the table was
activating the rest of the system by any port...)

So wish is like that:

- possibility to set KEY OUT as real PTT OUT in CW when K3 is in PTT mode

it means no activity on KEY OUT without PTT IN or XMIT active (when K3
is in PTT mode)

This "wish" is only about CW  PTT mode, in any VOX/QSK or SSB PTT it
can be as it is.

Please comment this, please add your opinion and support for this
request to make Elecraft sure that this is real wish. (maybe not :-()

Simply looking for "supporters" :-)

This was posted also on
http://www.zerobeat.net/smf/index.php/board,25.0.html


Thanks,
73!
Lexa, ok1dst
K3/10 #727
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[Lennart Michaëlsson]

G'day all,
I support the proposal having this at least as an option which would be
logical for folks having external equipment with different time delays where
the sequence could otherwise be started without intention.

73
Len/SM7BIC


Hello Elcrafters,

it was tested that KEY OUT port (rear panel of K3) is not in CW PTT
mode acting as PTT OUT (how was wrongly supposed to be) and this was
confirmed by Elecraft as intentional behavior but that if there will
be some feedback/requests from customers, maybe will be possible to
set this in Menu sometimes later.

Now - in CW mode - KEY OUT port is activated by pressing of the Key
even if VOX(QSK) is off and K3 is in pure PTT mode. This pressing of
the Key is activating Sidetone, TX LED and KEY OUT going to GND. No RF
is going out - it is OK - but the rest of system (linears,
transverters, preamp relays on tower,...) is going to TX and back.
Only by unwanted touching of the Key without PTT on.
(On many trasceivers is only sidetone generated by pressing the Key to
check pitch for zero-beat tuning but no one  I had on the table was
activating the rest of the system by any port...)

So wish is like that:

- possibility to set KEY OUT as real PTT OUT in CW when K3 is in PTT mode

it means no activity on KEY OUT without PTT IN or XMIT active (when K3
is in PTT mode)

This "wish" is only about CW  PTT mode, in any VOX/QSK or SSB PTT it
can be as it is.


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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Lexa,

You have my full support on this item, in fact I have 'lobbied' in the
past for having KEY OUT become active when PTT IN is asserted - but
*only* in CW non-QSK state.  That should not require any additional menu
items, only a change in behavior.

73,
Don W3FPR

Alexandr Kobranov wrote:

>
> So wish is like that:
>
> - possibility to set KEY OUT as real PTT OUT in CW when K3 is in PTT mode
>
> it means no activity on KEY OUT without PTT IN or XMIT active (when K3
> is in PTT mode)
>
> This "wish" is only about CW  PTT mode, in any VOX/QSK or SSB PTT it
> can be as it is.
>
> Please comment this, please add your opinion and support for this
> request to make Elecraft sure that this is real wish. (maybe not :-()
>
> Simply looking for "supporters" :-)
>
> This was posted also on
> http://www.zerobeat.net/smf/index.php/board,25.0.html
>
>
> Thanks,
> 73!
> Lexa, ok1dst
> K3/10 #727
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[Ken_ke2n]

<quote author="Alexandr Kobranov">
Hello Elcrafters,

it was tested that KEY OUT port (rear panel of K3) is not in CW PTT
mode acting as PTT OUT (how was wrongly supposed to be) and this was
confirmed by Elecraft as intentional behavior but that if there will
be some feedback/requests from customers, maybe will be possible to
set this in Menu sometimes later.
<unquote>

You have my vote - I have already sent email to them on this. At first it seemed that they did not understand. However, I am not holding my breath on this one.

The KEY OUT switch (FET) is from the inverted state of the main receive control line.

So your amplifiers and transverters (etc) are keyed up whenever you are **not receiving**
- which is not quite the same thing as transmitting (!)

So when you program the keyer messages it turns on this output.
When you load a new MCU program in, it will key up your equipment for 3  minutes continuously (I will not do that one again !)

Anyway, I think a wiring change is required for this one. It would be easy to change the logic to be:

not_receive AND transmit

by one cut-and-jumper

73

Ken

[Vic K2VCO]

Ken_ke2n wrote:

>
> The KEY OUT switch (FET) is from the inverted state of the main receive
> control line.
>
> So your amplifiers and transverters (etc) are keyed up whenever you are
> **not receiving**
> - which is not quite the same thing as transmitting (!)
>
> So when you program the keyer messages it turns on this output.
> When you load a new MCU program in, it will key up your equipment for 3
> minutes continuously (I will not do that one again !)
>
> Anyway, I think a wiring change is required for this one. It would be easy
> to change the logic to be:
>
> not_receive AND transmit

I would be very careful about this, because of the need for the key out
to be activated a few ms. before RF appears and to stay active until
after the RF is gone. This is necessary to prevent hot-switching of
amplifier relays which at best will create key clicks and at worst will
destroy the relays.
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[Ken_ke2n]

"Vic K2VCO (via Nabble)" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>I would be very careful about this, because of the need for the key out
>to be activated a few ms. before RF appears and to stay active until
>after the RF is gone. This is necessary to prevent hot-switching of
>amplifier relays which at best will create key clicks and at worst will
>destroy the relays.
>--
>73,
>Vic, K2VCO

Thanks - perhaps I should qualify that my key out goes to a sequencer that takes care of all the proper RF relay sequencing. Its just that I do not want it keyed up all those times when I am NOT transmitting AND I am using the transverter option running at 1 milliwatt output .....

[W7GJ, Lance]

Ken_ke2n wrote:

> "Vic K2VCO (via Nabble)" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I would be very careful about this, because of the need for the key out
>> to be activated a few ms. before RF appears and to stay active until
>> after the RF is gone. This is necessary to prevent hot-switching of
>> amplifier relays which at best will create key clicks and at worst will
>> destroy the relays.
>> --
>> 73,
>> Vic, K2VCO
>
> Thanks - perhaps I should qualify that my key out goes to a sequencer that takes care of all the proper RF relay sequencing. Its just that I do not want it keyed up all those times when I am NOT transmitting AND I am using the transverter option running at 1 milliwatt output .....
>
>

I the VOX turned off and have my computer or foot switch key my SEQUENCER, which
in turn finally keys up the K3 via the microphone PTT.  In that way, the K3 can
never be switched HOT (unless it is put into XMIT mode automatically during
firmware updates or something direct such as that).  GL and VY 73, Lance

--
Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT  59834  USA
QTH: DN27UB
TEL: [phone]   URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815


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[Alexandr Kobranov]

Suppose there is not problem with PTT or computer controll.
What is sometimes problem is what is happened after hitting the Key in
pure PTT mode. This is acting as activating KEY OUT port. That´s it.

Maybe there is way how to interpret "Key closed" when K3 is not in VOX
or in TX mode by external PTT (line or command) or XMIT/TUNE button by
firmware.

IMHO when K3 in PTT mode it will be better "no action" if the Key is
pressed when no PTT is present (external, by command or XMIT/TUNE
button).  Simply nothing, no KEY OUT,...like KEY port disconnected.

Maybe I missed something, maybe I am completely wrong but on any of my
other rig(-s) never had any problem with activating connected systems
(transverters, relays) by hitting the Key when PTT not active.
"
I never seen any explanation why K3 is doing by mentined way, what is
advantege and purpose, reading list and doc very often but still not
clear to me (and maybe others as well:-))
Time to time this topic is "open" without this explanation and again
goes for sleep :-)

73!
Lexa, ok1dst
K3/10 #727


Lance Collister napsal(a):

> Ken_ke2n wrote:
>> "Vic K2VCO (via Nabble)" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I would be very careful about this, because of the need for the key
>>> out to be activated a few ms. before RF appears and to stay active
>>> until after the RF is gone. This is necessary to prevent
>>> hot-switching of amplifier relays which at best will create key
>>> clicks and at worst will destroy the relays.
>>> --
>>> 73,
>>> Vic, K2VCO
>>
>> Thanks - perhaps I should qualify that my key out goes to a sequencer
>> that takes care of all the proper RF relay sequencing. Its just that I
>> do not want it keyed up all those times when I am NOT transmitting AND
>> I am using the transverter option running at 1 milliwatt output .....
>>
> I the VOX turned off and have my computer or foot switch key my
> SEQUENCER, which in turn finally keys up the K3 via the microphone PTT.  
> In that way, the K3 can never be switched HOT (unless it is put into
> XMIT mode automatically during firmware updates or something direct such
> as that).  GL and VY 73, Lance
>

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[Ralph Parker]

>> So your amplifiers and transverters (etc) are keyed up whenever you are
>> **not receiving** - which is not quite the same thing as transmitting (!)

>I would be very careful about this...

I don't understand the original complaint at all.
XMT: Relays before the onset of RF.
RCV: RF off before relays.
What's wrong with that?
It seems to work just fine as it is for the usual xcvr & amp combo.
(If Lance has a buncha relays and xvtrs in the next room,
that may be a different story :-)

VE7XF

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[WILLIS COOKE]

I may be missing something, but when I close the key in the PTT mode I get a sidetone with no output.  I get output only if I close the PTT or use VOX.  I have not yet connected my amplifier, so I am not sure what the Key Out does.  If I am setting parameters in my K3 I want the amplifier to be either in off or Standby.  (On my amp Standby just removes the relay voltage in the keying circuit.)  I never have seen an amplifier without some kind of off and standby switches.  I don't understand the problem.

Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ

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[Iain MacDonnell - N6ML]

WILLIS COOKE wrote:
> I may be missing something, but when I close the key in the PTT mode I get a sidetone with no output.  I get output only if I close the PTT or use VOX.  I have not yet connected my amplifier, so I am not sure what the Key Out does.  If I am setting parameters in my K3 I want the amplifier to be either in off or Standby.  (On my amp Standby just removes the relay voltage in the keying circuit.)  I never have seen an amplifier without some kind of off and standby switches.  I don't understand the problem.

So now you have two things to toggle to get into "test mode" - the K3
and the amp separately... and the amp may not be within arm's reach
of the operating position.

I must say that I was quite surprised (and a little embarrassed) when I
took my K3 to a contest station recently (where I'll be operating SS
this weekend), and discovered (infront of the station owner) that his
the amp was getting keyed even though the K3 was in "TX TEST" mode.

Whilst I (now) understand why it's happening (receiver is being turned
off), I still think it's wrong...

     ~Iain


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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Iain,

As far as I can recall, the amp keying during TX TEST is intentional -
it allows one to activate all the controls as though switching to
transmit, but no RF is transmitted - it is quite intuitive to me, it is
a TEST of all the transmit control elements (internal to the K3 and
external as well), but without producing any RF.

The situation of KEYOUT being activated by a key or paddle action when
in CW PTT is IMHO not the proper action - PTT is PTT - and by that I
mean that one must press PTT before anything happens.  In CW PTT, many
have wanted sidetone to be produced when the key is activated, and all
have wanted no RF to be transmitted - those things happen, but also the
KEYOUT signal becomes active with keying too, and I do not believe that
should happen - we have TX TEST to do testing that requires the KEYOUT
to be active.

73,
Don W3FPR.


Iain MacDonnell - K6IAM wrote:

>
>
> WILLIS COOKE wrote:
>> I may be missing something, but when I close the key in the PTT mode
>> I get a sidetone with no output.  I get output only if I close the
>> PTT or use VOX.  I have not yet connected my amplifier, so I am not
>> sure what the Key Out does.  If I am setting parameters in my K3 I
>> want the amplifier to be either in off or Standby.  (On my amp
>> Standby just removes the relay voltage in the keying circuit.)  I
>> never have seen an amplifier without some kind of off and standby
>> switches.  I don't understand the problem.
>
> So now you have two things to toggle to get into "test mode" - the K3
> and the amp separately... and the amp may not be within arm's reach
> of the operating position.
>
> I must say that I was quite surprised (and a little embarrassed) when I
> took my K3 to a contest station recently (where I'll be operating SS
> this weekend), and discovered (infront of the station owner) that his
> the amp was getting keyed even though the K3 was in "TX TEST" mode.
>
> Whilst I (now) understand why it's happening (receiver is being turned
> off), I still think it's wrong...
>
>     ~Iain
>
>
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