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K3 not communicating with PC

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Roger Dallimore

K3 not communicating with PC

Hi all,

I can't work out why my K3 has stopped communicating with my PC. Besides
the K3 utility I'm using HRD. Up to now I've used the KUSB which has
worked fine, it was bought with K3 #191 at the same time. I reinstalled
the drivers checked Baud rate (38400), swapped ports etc but still no go.

I then tried a standard RS232 instead, but still it does not work.

What am I missing here? Any help would be appreciated (my email is set
to digest mode).

73
Roger MW0IDX

K3 #191
K2 #2724
KX1 #416

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Gary Smith-2

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

Roger,

I think you may be experiencing the problem I had which I asked about
yesterday
subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware update question - k3fw3r68

Check your ports with the elecraft utility, I had the same kind of
issue and I needed to find an open port that gave me 4800 bps.

I never had the problem before after an update to a new version.
Perhaps you've just updated? Or perhaps your port is active to a
different application using the port you had assigned in the utility
at a prior time?

Gary
KA1J

> Hi all,
>
> I can't work out why my K3 has stopped communicating with my PC. Besides
> the K3 utility I'm using HRD. Up to now I've used the KUSB which has
> worked fine, it was bought with K3 #191 at the same time. I reinstalled
> the drivers checked Baud rate (38400), swapped ports etc but still no go.
>
> I then tried a standard RS232 instead, but still it does not work.
>
> What am I missing here? Any help would be appreciated (my email is set
> to digest mode).
>
> 73
> Roger MW0IDX
>
> K3 #191
> K2 #2724
> KX1 #416
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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Matt Zilmer

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

If there's any doubt which COM port is used by the KUSB, you can use
the Device Manager -> Ports to list all the COM ports. The one with
Prolific shown is your KUSB.

Sometimes in enumeration, USB-Serial adapters will change COM port ID
from boot to boot.

73
matt W6NIA

On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 17:03:49 -0500, you wrote:

>Roger,
>
>I think you may be experiencing the problem I had which I asked about
>yesterday
>subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware update question - k3fw3r68
>
>Check your ports with the elecraft utility, I had the same kind of
>issue and I needed to find an open port that gave me 4800 bps.
>
>I never had the problem before after an update to a new version.
>Perhaps you've just updated? Or perhaps your port is active to a
>different application using the port you had assigned in the utility
>at a prior time?
>
>Gary
>KA1J
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I can't work out why my K3 has stopped communicating with my PC. Besides
>> the K3 utility I'm using HRD. Up to now I've used the KUSB which has
>> worked fine, it was bought with K3 #191 at the same time. I reinstalled
>> the drivers checked Baud rate (38400), swapped ports etc but still no go.
>>
>> I then tried a standard RS232 instead, but still it does not work.
>>
>> What am I missing here? Any help would be appreciated (my email is set
>> to digest mode).
>>
>> 73
>> Roger MW0IDX
>>
>> K3 #191
>> K2 #2724
>> KX1 #416
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
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Jorge Diez - CX6VM

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

Are you using KUSB or another manufacturer RS232-USB cable?

Some of this cheap cables are very bad!... If you are buying outside
Elecraft try http://hosenose.com/interfaces.asp#USB-RS232 I bought there one
some years ago and works perfect.

73,
Jorge
CX6VM

-----Mensaje original-----
De: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de Matt Zilmer
Enviado el: Jueves, 07 de Enero de 2010 08:17 p.m.
Para: [hidden email]
CC: [hidden email]
Asunto: Re: [Elecraft] K3 not communicating with PC

If there's any doubt which COM port is used by the KUSB, you can use
the Device Manager -> Ports to list all the COM ports. The one with
Prolific shown is your KUSB.

Sometimes in enumeration, USB-Serial adapters will change COM port ID
from boot to boot.

73
matt W6NIA

On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 17:03:49 -0500, you wrote:

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.129/2605 - Release Date: 01/07/10
07:35:00

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Mike Reublin

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer

The K3 utility also lists the available ports.

73, Mike NF4L

Matt Zilmer wrote:

> If there's any doubt which COM port is used by the KUSB, you can use
> the Device Manager -> Ports to list all the COM ports. The one with
> Prolific shown is your KUSB.
>
> Sometimes in enumeration, USB-Serial adapters will change COM port ID
> from boot to boot.
>
> 73
> matt W6NIA
>
> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 17:03:49 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>> Roger,
>>
>> I think you may be experiencing the problem I had which I asked about
>> yesterday
>> subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware update question - k3fw3r68
>>
>> Check your ports with the elecraft utility, I had the same kind of
>> issue and I needed to find an open port that gave me 4800 bps.
>>
>> I never had the problem before after an update to a new version.
>> Perhaps you've just updated? Or perhaps your port is active to a
>> different application using the port you had assigned in the utility
>> at a prior time?
>>
>> Gary
>> KA1J
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I can't work out why my K3 has stopped communicating with my PC. Besides
>>> the K3 utility I'm using HRD. Up to now I've used the KUSB which has
>>> worked fine, it was bought with K3 #191 at the same time. I reinstalled
>>> the drivers checked Baud rate (38400), swapped ports etc but still no go.
>>>
>>> I then tried a standard RS232 instead, but still it does not work.
>>>
>>> What am I missing here? Any help would be appreciated (my email is set
>>> to digest mode).
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Roger MW0IDX
>>>
>>> K3 #191
>>> K2 #2724
>>> KX1 #416
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

PA3CW

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

Worst case you have to replace your KIO3 board. There are some checks you can do to measure voltages to see if your KIO board is still ok. I had to replace my board after very high statics in the radio room after a thunderstorm. Replacement board solved it and K3 and me are happy again.
Best 73
Dick PA3CW

Roger Dallimore

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

In reply to this post by Roger Dallimore

Many thanks for all suggestions privately and to this list.

I can confirm that;

Ports have been checked with K3 utility
Checked correct port in device manager on PC
Did not stop after upgrading software
I am using KUSB with latest drivers since arrival of K3 #191
K3 is set at 38400 baud

I'm going to examine the transistor on the IO board. Apparently the
plastic transistors can degrade over time on older K3's and the voltage
drops under load to the RS232. Thanks to K1WHS for this suggestion.

73 & HNY!

Roger MW0IDX

K3 #191
K2 #2724
KX1 #416

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David Gilbert

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

That would be almost at the bottom of any list of potential problems I
would suspect. The only gradual degradation mode I can think of for any
low power transistor, plastic encapsulated or otherwise, built in the
last 30 years by any reputable manufacturer occurs when the base-emitter
junction gets repeatedly and significantly reverse biased.

What specifically were the details of the supposed issue with older
K3's? Does the RS-232 line in the K3 reverse bias the emitter junction
(exceed BVebo) of that transistor?

73, Dave AB7E

Roger Dallimore wrote:
> I'm going to examine the transistor on the IO board. Apparently the
> plastic transistors can degrade over time on older K3's and the voltage
> drops under load to the RS232. Thanks to K1WHS for this suggestion.
>
>
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KK7P

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

> What specifically were the details of the supposed issue with older
> K3's? Does the RS-232 line in the K3 reverse bias the emitter junction
> (exceed BVebo) of that transistor?

No.

The KIO3 uses a twin-tee oscillator to generate to required negative
voltage. This is to eliminate the typical charge pump as a source of
receiver noise. About a year ago we changed the transistor used in this
oscillator to a higher-gain device because a small number of KIO3
modules had marginal negative voltage.

There is no degradation with time that I am aware of.

73,

Lyle KK7P (guilty of designing the KIO3 module)
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

In reply to this post by Roger Dallimore

Roger,

I do not believe the transistors on the IO board should be very high on
the suspect list. It is rare to find a component failure unless it has
been subjected to some unusual stress - component degradation in 3 years
or less is highly unlikely, 20 to 40 years, maybe, but not 3.
May I suggest that the KUSB itself would have the highest probability of
failure, and your tests so far have not done anything to check it (other
than the checks from the computer device manager). The adapter could
have something as subtle as a broken wire in the cable.
Can you try another adapter, or better yet, try using a computer with a
real serial port.

73,
Don W3FPR

Roger Dallimore wrote:

> Many thanks for all suggestions privately and to this list.
>
> I can confirm that;
>
> Ports have been checked with K3 utility
> Checked correct port in device manager on PC
> Did not stop after upgrading software
> I am using KUSB with latest drivers since arrival of K3 #191
> K3 is set at 38400 baud
>
> I'm going to examine the transistor on the IO board. Apparently the
> plastic transistors can degrade over time on older K3's and the voltage
> drops under load to the RS232. Thanks to K1WHS for this suggestion.
>
> 73 & HNY!
>
> Roger MW0IDX
>
>

David Fleming-2

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

I agree with Don.. I wouldn't waste the time checking that transistor. It would be an exercise in futility. My bet is on the KUSB.

David, W4SMT

--- On Fri, 1/8/10, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Roger,
>
> I do not believe the transistors on the IO board should be
> very high on
> the suspect list. It is rare to find a component
> failure unless it has
> been subjected to some unusual stress - component
> degradation in 3 years
> or less is highly unlikely, 20 to 40 years, maybe, but not
> 3.
> May I suggest that the KUSB itself would have the highest
> probability of
> failure, and your tests so far have not done anything to
> check it (other
> than the checks from the computer device manager).
> The adapter could
> have something as subtle as a broken wire in the cable.
> Can you try another adapter, or better yet, try using a
> computer with a
> real serial port.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Roger Dallimore wrote:
> > Many thanks for all suggestions privately and to this
> list.
> >
> > I can confirm that;
> >
> > Ports have been checked with K3 utility
> > Checked correct port in device manager on PC
> > Did not stop after upgrading software
> > I am using KUSB with latest drivers since arrival of
> K3 #191
> > K3 is set at 38400 baud
> >
> > I'm going to examine the transistor on the IO board.
> Apparently the
> > plastic transistors can degrade over time on older
> K3's and the voltage
> > drops under load to the RS232. Thanks to K1WHS
> for this suggestion.
> >
> > 73 & HNY!
> >
> > Roger MW0IDX
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Mike Reublin

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

I agree also. Try a different device on the cable, like a digital
camera, or an iPOD, or a GPS, or......

73, Mike NF4L

Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Roger,
>
> I do not believe the transistors on the IO board should be very high on
> the suspect list. It is rare to find a component failure unless it has
> been subjected to some unusual stress - component degradation in 3 years
> or less is highly unlikely, 20 to 40 years, maybe, but not 3.
> May I suggest that the KUSB itself would have the highest probability of
> failure, and your tests so far have not done anything to check it (other
> than the checks from the computer device manager). The adapter could
> have something as subtle as a broken wire in the cable.
> Can you try another adapter, or better yet, try using a computer with a
> real serial port.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Roger Dallimore wrote:
>
>> Many thanks for all suggestions privately and to this list.
>>
>> I can confirm that;
>>
>> Ports have been checked with K3 utility
>> Checked correct port in device manager on PC
>> Did not stop after upgrading software
>> I am using KUSB with latest drivers since arrival of K3 #191
>> K3 is set at 38400 baud
>>
>> I'm going to examine the transistor on the IO board. Apparently the
>> plastic transistors can degrade over time on older K3's and the voltage
>> drops under load to the RS232. Thanks to K1WHS for this suggestion.
>>
>> 73 & HNY!
>>
>> Roger MW0IDX
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

n7ws

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

I agree that the transistor is likely not an issue. However, Lyle did write: "About a year ago we changed the transistor used in this
oscillator to a higher-gain device because a small number of KIO3
modules had marginal negative voltage."

Unless I'm mistaken, it seems to me that holding the K3 blameless and suggesting that it's something else, is not necessarily a definitive answer. Believe it or not, the KIO3 could actually be defective. I know that this is heresy in this forum, but nothing's perfect :-)

- On Fri, 1/8/10, Mike <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Mike <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 not communicating with PC
To:
Cc: [hidden email], "Roger Dallimore" <[hidden email]>
Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 6:41 PM

I agree also. Try a different device on the cable, like a digital
camera, or an iPOD, or a GPS, or......

73, Mike NF4L

Don Wilhelm wrote:

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

Wes,

No-one is holding the K3 blameless, but in the interest of complete
troubleshooting, it is quite reasonable (to me) to check the easy things
first if for no other reason than to eliminate them from the suspect
list. It is often that the things that are most frequently overlooked
are the culprit. Despite the fact that these things are easy to check,
human nature tends to expect the worst - elimination of items from the
suspect list as a first order of business is always a wise undertaking
in troubleshooting procedures. In other words, proving what works is
just as important as finding what does not work.

73,
Don W3FPR

Wes Stewart wrote:

> I agree that the transistor is likely not an issue. However, Lyle did write: "About a year ago we changed the transistor used in this
> oscillator to a higher-gain device because a small number of KIO3
> modules had marginal negative voltage."
>
> Unless I'm mistaken, it seems to me that holding the K3 blameless and suggesting that it's something else, is not necessarily a definitive answer. Believe it or not, the KIO3 could actually be defective. I know that this is heresy in this forum, but nothing's perfect :-)
>
>
>
> - On Fri, 1/8/10, Mike <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> From: Mike <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 not communicating with PC
> To:
> Cc: [hidden email], "Roger Dallimore" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 6:41 PM
>
> I agree also. Try a different device on the cable, like a digital
> camera, or an iPOD, or a GPS, or......
>
> 73, Mike NF4L
>
> Don Wilhelm wrote:
>
>> Roger,
>>
>> I do not believe the transistors on the IO board should be very high on
>> the suspect list. It is rare to find a component failure unless it has
>> been subjected to some unusual stress - component degradation in 3 years
>> or less is highly unlikely, 20 to 40 years, maybe, but not 3.
>> May I suggest that the KUSB itself would have the highest probability of
>> failure, and your tests so far have not done anything to check it (other
>> than the checks from the computer device manager). The adapter could
>> have something as subtle as a broken wire in the cable.
>> Can you try another adapter, or better yet, try using a computer with a
>> real serial port.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.130/2607 - Release Date: 01/08/10 02:35:00
>
>

Julian, G4ILO

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

Don Wilhelm-4 wrote

No-one is holding the K3 blameless, but in the interest of complete
troubleshooting, it is quite reasonable (to me) to check the easy things
first.

Absolutely. It is easy to overlook the obvious. In problems of this sort the most likely culprit is always software, followed by cabling.

It's a good idea to use the Terminal facility of the K3 Utility to test communication. Try sending FA; and see if you get a frequency back. A common problem especially with USB adapters is that data is corrupted. You may not see this with a normal application as it will probably ignore the corrupt data and behave as if it is not connected.

Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

n7ws

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

The reason I mention this is that I recently went through a similar troubleshooting exercise with a KRC2 where it was suggested that my USB->serial device was bad, I should use the K3 AUX connector rather than RS232, I needed a real serial port, etc. etc.

After jumping through all of these hoops, the end result was that it was an Elecraft software problem.

Wes

--- On Fri, 1/8/10, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 not communicating with PC
To: "Wes Stewart" <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email], [hidden email], "Roger Dallimore" <[hidden email]>
Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 7:47 PM

Wes,

No-one is holding the K3 blameless, but in the interest of complete troubleshooting, it is quite reasonable (to me) to check the easy things first if for no other reason than to eliminate them from the suspect list. It is often that the things that are most frequently overlooked are the culprit. Despite the fact that these things are easy to check, human nature tends to expect the worst - elimination of items from the suspect list as a first order of business is always a wise undertaking in troubleshooting procedures. In other words, proving what works is just as important as finding what does not work.

73,
Don W3FPR

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Jon Kåre Hellan

Re: K3 not communicating with PC

In reply to this post by Roger Dallimore

Roger Dallimore wrote:

Did you check the voltage to the K3? Low voltage from a battery once caused a PC communications
problem for me.

Jon LA4RT
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