K3 - perceived RX and TX audio

[Bill-3]

If you don't like the audio from your K3 - you don't have to keep it!

With all the various AGC, DSP, and filter settings - and the two
equalizers - _your_ K3 can be made to sound any way _you_ want it to sound.

It used to be that some radios just plain sounded good or just plain
lousy - for whatever reason(s). The K3 can be anything from lousy to
excellent - it is all up to the user to make the adjustments. Nothing is
fixed in the K3 - there are nearly infinite variables to suit any
situation. You can set it up for weak signal CW or resounding armchair
copy - the choice is yours. The K3 can do it all.

Now, just why is it that I keep seeing mention of the K3's poor audio?
Sounds to me like it is more the operator is unable to make the
necessary menu selections. Or, more likely, the complainer never
actually heard a K3.

Now, back to 75 meters and a little Kool-Aide.

Bill W2BLC K-Line


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[Jim Bolit]

Or......................they have better hearing with a higher frequency
response

Jim
W6AIM




-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 3:07 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio

If you don't like the audio from your K3 - you don't have to keep it!

With all the various AGC, DSP, and filter settings - and the two equalizers
- _your_ K3 can be made to sound any way _you_ want it to sound.

It used to be that some radios just plain sounded good or just plain lousy -
for whatever reason(s). The K3 can be anything from lousy to excellent - it
is all up to the user to make the adjustments. Nothing is fixed in the K3 -
there are nearly infinite variables to suit any situation. You can set it up
for weak signal CW or resounding armchair copy - the choice is yours. The K3
can do it all.

Now, just why is it that I keep seeing mention of the K3's poor audio?
Sounds to me like it is more the operator is unable to make the necessary
menu selections. Or, more likely, the complainer never actually heard a K3.

Now, back to 75 meters and a little Kool-Aide.

Bill W2BLC K-Line


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[David Gilbert]

I don't believe that is totally accurate.  I'm guessing you're not an
active contester.  The K3 is pretty good, but it most definitely does
not have infinite capability to suit any situation.  Last I checked, low
level pass band mixing was still an issue, as is the hard audio limit
for some.

Dave  AB7E



On 2/26/2015 4:06 AM, Bill wrote:

> If you don't like the audio from your K3 - you don't have to keep it!
>
> With all the various AGC, DSP, and filter settings - and the two
> equalizers - _your_ K3 can be made to sound any way _you_ want it to
> sound.
>
> It used to be that some radios just plain sounded good or just plain
> lousy - for whatever reason(s). The K3 can be anything from lousy to
> excellent - it is all up to the user to make the adjustments. Nothing
> is fixed in the K3 - there are nearly infinite variables to suit any
> situation. You can set it up for weak signal CW or resounding armchair
> copy - the choice is yours. The K3 can do it all.
>
> Now, just why is it that I keep seeing mention of the K3's poor audio?
> Sounds to me like it is more the operator is unable to make the
> necessary menu selections. Or, more likely, the complainer never
> actually heard a K3.
>
> Now, back to 75 meters and a little Kool-Aide.
>
> Bill W2BLC K-Line
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

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[Phil Hystad-3]

My two-bits on the topic...

I like the audio on my Bose Table-top radio.  The music fills the room from
the obviously small speakers that it has built-in and it is high quality and
high fidelity.

But, why in the world would I want or even care about having the same audio
fidelity on my K3.  I am 90 percent CW and the audio is just fine.  I am about
50-50 in using speakers (I have the ComSpeaker pair) and headphones.  My
headphones are actually cast off older ear buds from my iPhone.

For the SSB audio on those times I am using SSB, the audio is just fine.  It is
the other guys' signals that make up most of the quality or lack of quality in
the signal.  Yet, if you can understand them, what else do you want.  They are
not supposed to be singing to you (I think the FCC regs say no music).

Yes, I am OK with the Audio of my K3 (and, my KX3).  But, when I am listening
to a Beethoven piano Sonata I choose the Bose over the Elecraft.

73, phil, K7PEH

> On Feb 26, 2015, at 10:18 AM, jim <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Or......................they have better hearing with a higher frequency
> response
>
> Jim
> W6AIM
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 3:07 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio
>
> If you don't like the audio from your K3 - you don't have to keep it!
>
> With all the various AGC, DSP, and filter settings - and the two equalizers
> - _your_ K3 can be made to sound any way _you_ want it to sound.
>
> It used to be that some radios just plain sounded good or just plain lousy -
> for whatever reason(s). The K3 can be anything from lousy to excellent - it
> is all up to the user to make the adjustments. Nothing is fixed in the K3 -
> there are nearly infinite variables to suit any situation. You can set it up
> for weak signal CW or resounding armchair copy - the choice is yours. The K3
> can do it all.
>
> Now, just why is it that I keep seeing mention of the K3's poor audio?
> Sounds to me like it is more the operator is unable to make the necessary
> menu selections. Or, more likely, the complainer never actually heard a K3.
>
> Now, back to 75 meters and a little Kool-Aide.
>
> Bill W2BLC K-Line
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> delivered to [hidden email]
>
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[Guy Olinger K2AV]

On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 1:48 PM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> low level pass band mixing was still an issue


If I know exactly what you mean by low level pass band mixing, the multiple
weak signal "muddle", that problem was decisively cleared up by the
firmware significant digit fix for the AGC algorithm. It was a startling
improvement in the K3's sound. It was even more startling in what it did
for diversity reception of a weak signal pileup. Prior to the fix, the
muddle had been removing the aural clues that the brain uses to create a
sound stage. Afterwards, wow.

At this point, that fix was a long time ago. Elecraft has been working on
the K3 for what, seven years now. Any complaint made first 5 years ago is
likely long since fixed, though some, with one complaint fixed, seem to
take little joy in that and immediately look for something else to complain
about.

Some people still have a theoretical complaint about one device in the
analog RF/IF RX string, but I have never been able to hear anything they
were complaining about. They had their theoretical point no question, but
apparently the K3 does not live in the range where that point would be
invoked. So no harm, no foul.

I don't drink KoolAid. Don't believe in it. But there's a bunch that drinks
55 gallon drums of inverse KoolAid.

73, Guy
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[Jim Bolit]

I have the "latest" per Elecraft (Serial 04841).  I hear artifacts on it.

I have a friend that has a K3 (Serial >06000).  He does not hear artifacts
on his rig.  I do not hear artifacts on his rig

He listens to mine, and hears artifacts.

I am sending the K3 to Elecraft to have them sort it out.

Jim
W6AIM



-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Guy
Olinger K2AV
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 11:54 AM
To: David Gilbert
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio

On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 1:48 PM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> low level pass band mixing was still an issue


If I know exactly what you mean by low level pass band mixing, the multiple
weak signal "muddle", that problem was decisively cleared up by the firmware
significant digit fix for the AGC algorithm. It was a startling improvement
in the K3's sound. It was even more startling in what it did for diversity
reception of a weak signal pileup. Prior to the fix, the muddle had been
removing the aural clues that the brain uses to create a sound stage.
Afterwards, wow.

At this point, that fix was a long time ago. Elecraft has been working on
the K3 for what, seven years now. Any complaint made first 5 years ago is
likely long since fixed, though some, with one complaint fixed, seem to take
little joy in that and immediately look for something else to complain
about.

Some people still have a theoretical complaint about one device in the
analog RF/IF RX string, but I have never been able to hear anything they
were complaining about. They had their theoretical point no question, but
apparently the K3 does not live in the range where that point would be
invoked. So no harm, no foul.

I don't drink KoolAid. Don't believe in it. But there's a bunch that drinks
55 gallon drums of inverse KoolAid.

73, Guy
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[John Meade W2XS]

I received a Bose mini soundlink speaker system for my iPod as a gift from the family. One day, I plugged it into the rear headphone jack of the K3 and tuned into a local AM BCB station playing oldies.  It sounded terrific, with nice strong bass.  I now use it for all of my K3 operating (which is mostly CW). I never thought that I would use a powered speaker on the K3 but the mini sounds nice and it is small and it is stereo, so the sub-receiver comes through on the right channel. I also use it through the Bluetooth connection for my PC and, of course, the iPod.

73,  John W2XS

"Yes, I am OK with the Audio of my K3 (and, my KX3).  But, when I am listening
to a Beethoven piano Sonata I choose the Bose over the Elecraft.

73, phil, K7PEH"

[Jim Brown-10]

On Thu,2/26/2015 11:54 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
> At this point, that fix was a long time ago. Elecraft has been working on
> the K3 for what, seven years now. Any complaint made first 5 years ago is
> likely long since fixed, though some, with one complaint fixed, seem to
> take little joy in that and immediately look for something else to complain
> about.
>
> Some people still have a theoretical complaint about one device in the
> analog RF/IF RX string, but I have never been able to hear anything they
> were complaining about.

I'm retired from a long career in pro audio (including a lot of
recordings of acoustic jazz of the highest musical quality) and time in
broadcasting. My ears and brain know the difference between broadcast
audio, recording quality audio, and ham radio audio.

I mostly work CW, but do SSB and RTTY for contesting and DX chasing, as
well as WSJT modes for small signal work. My K3s were bought new and
have serial numbers in the range of 800 and 1800 (i.e., the first year
of production) and get all the firmware updates. I've never been
bothered by what I've heard coming out of good quality headphones
connected to my K3s, nor with the audio that I'm transmitting.

As Riley Hollingsworth has said on more than one occasion, if you want
to transmit broadcast quality audio, buy or go to work at a broadcast
station. And I will add, if you want to listen to broadcast or recording
quality audio, turn on you home entertainment system.

73, Jim K9YC
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[Bill-3]

Sorry to have stirred up so much animosity! I merely wished to point out
that the K3 is an extremely capable device, with many menu settings, and
should please anyone - if they do their part in setting it up properly.

My operating is mostly armchair rag chew - hence, I use a pair of
Behringer powered speakers and have my EQ, AGC, and filter settings made
to enhance my listening pleasure. I have even given thought to "surround
sound" - however, decided that lightning crashes from all sides might be
a little much in the summer.

I don't really do more than scratch the surface of what the K3 can do.

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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[Elecraft mailing list]

 I'm glad this topic came up since I know My K3 can sound better if I take the time to work through the settings.
There are a lot of settings to play with and a lot of them are ones I've never seen on other radios(Plus I was out of radio for a while and how quickly we forget).




      From: Bill <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 4:00 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio
   
Sorry to have stirred up so much animosity! I merely wished to point out
that the K3 is an extremely capable device, with many menu settings, and
should please anyone - if they do their part in setting it up properly.

My operating is mostly armchair rag chew - hence, I use a pair of
Behringer powered speakers and have my EQ, AGC, and filter settings made
to enhance my listening pleasure. I have even given thought to "surround
sound" - however, decided that lightning crashes from all sides might be
a little much in the summer.

I don't really do more than scratch the surface of what the K3 can do.

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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