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K3 power out - key down

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Stephen M. Shearer

K3 power out - key down

I am thinking about replacing my ORION II with a K3 as it is smaller
(much smaller).
My OII will do RTTY (or JT65) at 100 Watts (with the fan option).
What will the K3 do? (I know it has fans, too)
I hear lots of comments about digital power out for the KX3 and heatsinks...
I guess the question also goes for the 500 Watt amp, what will it do key
down?

btw, 0.5w JT65 is great fun with my KX3... but I also like to contest
at 100w.

73, Steve WB3LGC (hope to see you on the RTTY NAQP tomorrow)

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Stephen M. Shearer

Re: K3 power out - key down

Thanks, You didn't use a brick?
I expected the K3 to handle 100W as there were no comments that I remember.
With your comments it doesn't matter how the 500W amp would work as I
doubt if I would want to run more than 100W, either.

I also have a IC-706 "100W" rig but it will only handle ~40W RTTY.
No, I wouldn't run 100W on JT65. The most I ever used with any rig has
been 20W on the ic-706.

steve
On 18-Jul-14 7:51 PM, John King wrote:

> Hello Steve,
>
> When I built my K3 in April 2008 I wondered the same thing. I hooked it up
> to a Bird and a dummy load, set it up for 120W output (the K3 firmware
> allowed 120 Watts back in those days) on 7 MHz, engaged the shorting bar on
> my J-38 and let it run for 24 hours. It was still going strong at 120W
> measured output at the end of 24 hours. The rig has been through 7 FD's
> since then running CW for 24 hours straight. It just keeps on ticking. I
> think you'll be OK on RTTY.
>
> 73,
> John WA1ABI
>
>

'DGB'

Yamaha CM500 Headphones with Microphone

Less then a few hrs. of use. I prefer my Heil BM10's but had to buy them
when I was down in Florida for the winter and forgot the BM10's at home.

Like new condition, worked great but not my cup of tea .... $35 shipped
CONUS.

73 Dwight NS9I

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Josh Fiden

Re: K3 power out - key down

In reply to this post by Stephen M. Shearer

It takes 80W drive to get my amp to full output. I've run my K3
continuously for hours at a time at that level on JT65. No issues at all
and never even noticed it getting hot.

73,
Josh W6XU

On 7/18/2014 5:04 PM, Steve wrote:
> No, I wouldn't run 100W on JT65.

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'DGB'

Re: Yamaha CM500 Headphones with Microphone

Thanks to all for the replies, sold within 10 minutes to N5ZC who bought
my filter this morning ... tnx Richard!

73 Dwight NS9I

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Mike K2MK

Re: K3 power out - key down

In reply to this post by Stephen M. Shearer

Hi Steve,

The K3/100 has two fans. The KX3 has no fans. Apples and oranges.

I ran my K3 on 30 meters RTTY at 100 watts for 2 hours non-stop as an ARRL centennial station and had no problem. The fan just ramps up to a higher speed.

I've also run JT65-HF on 6 meters at 100 watts with no visible problem but of course it's one minute on, one minute off.

73,
Mike K2MK

Stephen M. Shearer wrote

I am thinking about replacing my ORION II with a K3 as it is smaller
(much smaller).
My OII will do RTTY (or JT65) at 100 Watts (with the fan option).
What will the K3 do? (I know it has fans, too)
I hear lots of comments about digital power out for the KX3 and heatsinks...
I guess the question also goes for the 500 Watt amp, what will it do key
down?

btw, 0.5w JT65 is great fun with my KX3... but I also like to contest
at 100w.

73, Steve WB3LGC (hope to see you on the RTTY NAQP tomorrow)

Phil Wheeler-2

Re: K3 power out - key down

Hmm .. makes me wonder if a failed fan would
result in an error message and/or graceful power
roll off to protect the K3?

I have so much ringing in my deaf ear I never hear
the fans!

Phil W7OX

On 7/19/14, 6:51 AM, Mike K2MK wrote:

> Hi Steve,
>
> The K3/100 has two fans. The KX3 has no fans. Apples and oranges.
>
> I ran my K3 on 30 meters RTTY at 100 watts for 2 hours non-stop as an ARRL
> centennial station and had no problem. The fan just ramps up to a higher
> speed.
>
> I've also run JT65-HF on 6 meters at 100 watts with no visible problem but
> of course it's one minute on, one minute off.
>
> 73,
> Mike K2MK
>
>
> Stephen M. Shearer wrote
>> I am thinking about replacing my ORION II with a K3 as it is smaller
>> (much smaller).
>> My OII will do RTTY (or JT65) at 100 Watts (with the fan option).
>> What will the K3 do? (I know it has fans, too)
>> I hear lots of comments about digital power out for the KX3 and
>> heatsinks...
>> I guess the question also goes for the 500 Watt amp, what will it do key
>> down?
>>
>> btw, 0.5w JT65 is great fun with my KX3... but I also like to contest
>> at 100w.
>>
>> 73, Steve WB3LGC (hope to see you on the RTTY NAQP tomorrow)
>

KC6CNN

Re: K3 power out - key down

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Phil Wheeler-2

Re: K3 power out - key down

I don't use that mode and generally run no more
than 40 watts on PSK31 with the K3.

But this statement below "The K3/100 has two fans.
The KX3 has no fans. Apples and oranges." made me
wonder if fan failure could be an issue with the
K3/100 -- and one which might affect those running
less than 100 Watts.

Phil W7OX

On 7/19/14, 2:27 PM, Gerald Manthey wrote:

>
> Just how many people are running high power on
> low power modes like jt65?
>
> I work the world with 10 watts.
>
> Gerald - KC6CNN
>
> On Jul 19, 2014 10:48 AM, "Phil Wheeler"
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> wrote:
>
> Hmm .. makes me wonder if a failed fan would
> result in an error message and/or graceful
> power roll off to protect the K3?
>
> I have so much ringing in my deaf ear I
> never hear the fans!
>
> Phil W7OX
>
> On 7/19/14, 6:51 AM, Mike K2MK wrote:
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> The K3/100 has two fans. The KX3 has no
> fans. Apples and oranges.
>
> I ran my K3 on 30 meters RTTY at 100
> watts for 2 hours non-stop as an ARRL
> centennial station and had no problem.
> The fan just ramps up to a higher
> speed.
>
> I've also run JT65-HF on 6 meters at 100
> watts with no visible problem but
> of course it's one minute on, one minute
> off.
>
> 73,
> Mike K2MK
>

Josh Fiden

Re: K3 power out - key down

In reply to this post by KC6CNN

I thought it was "weak signal" mode, not "low power" mode.

I don't think the XYL would permit an array large enough to work 6m EME
with 10W... everyone has a dream!

73,
Josh W6XU

On 7/19/2014 2:27 PM, Gerald Manthey wrote:
> Just how many people are running high power on low power modes like jt65?
>
> I work the world with 10 watts.
>
> Gerald - KC6CNN

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Jim Brown-10

Re: K3 power out - key down

In reply to this post by KC6CNN

On 7/19/2014 2:27 PM, Gerald Manthey wrote:
> Just how many people are running high power on low power modes like jt65?
>
> I work the world with 10 watts.

You are misinformed. JT65 is NOT a LOW POWER mode, it is a WEAK SIGNAL
mode. BIG difference. Caps added for emphasis. On VHF/UHF, it is quite
common to run as much power as you can to work moonbounce, or double hop
E-skip when the band is only marginal, or tropo. Right now, KH8/W7GJ is
on a rare island in the Pacific working moonbounce, and both he and the
stations working him are running big antennas and big power. I run my
KPA500 on 6M for all modes, including JT65.

73, Jim K9YC

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KC6CNN

Re: K3 power out - key down

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Bill Turner-2

Re: K3 power out - key down

ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)

On 7/19/2014 5:44 PM, Gerald Manthey wrote:
> and I work the world on 10 watts.

REPLY:

I encourage the Geralds of the world to continue with their ten watts.

Makes DXing easier for the rest of us. :-)

73, Bill W6WRT

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Wes (N7WS)

Re: K3 power out - key down

The problem with this is, if everyone else is as misguided, then they are
transmitting with ten watts too. So their signals are 10 to 20+ dB weaker than
with higher power, hence there are fewer stations to work, ie. less DX.

Furthermore, with more power, faster modes of communicating are possible. More
stations can make QSOs in a given time, which can actually *lower* the total QRM
level.

Of course, all of this is from a DXer's perspective. If watching paint dry is
your thing then stick with QRP.

Wes N7WS

On 7/19/2014 8:07 PM, Bill Turner wrote:

> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)
>
> On 7/19/2014 5:44 PM, Gerald Manthey wrote:
>> and I work the world on 10 watts.
>
> REPLY:
>
> I encourage the Geralds of the world to continue with their ten watts.
>
> Makes DXing easier for the rest of us. :-)
>
> 73, Bill W6WRT

Dr. William J. Schmidt, II

Re: K3 power out - key down

Have you ever listened to the interviews of the Indy car drivers after a
race? Do they say: "I wish I had a less powerful engine to make it a more
challenging race."?

I'm on the DX end a lot these days, and I always find myself stopping a
pileup to ask if there are any 10 watt or less stations calling. The
response I get is usually three QRP stations responding (which I eventually
work after 10 minutes of additional instruction to much louder stations)
buried by 100's of QRO stations with massive antenna arrays.

Tough to win!

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ / J68HZ/ 8P6HK/ ZF2HZ/ PJ4HZ/ VP5HZ

Owner - Operator
Big Signal Ranch - NA-QRO Club
Staunton, Illinois

email: [hidden email]

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wes
(N7WS)
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 9:05 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power out - key down

The problem with this is, if everyone else is as misguided, then they are
transmitting with ten watts too. So their signals are 10 to 20+ dB weaker
than
with higher power, hence there are fewer stations to work, ie. less DX.

Furthermore, with more power, faster modes of communicating are possible.
More
stations can make QSOs in a given time, which can actually *lower* the total
QRM
level.

Of course, all of this is from a DXer's perspective. If watching paint dry
is
your thing then stick with QRP.

Wes N7WS

On 7/19/2014 8:07 PM, Bill Turner wrote:

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3 power out - key down

>>> which can actually *lower* the total QRM
level. <<<

And! here all along, I thought " LESS Power, LESS QRM"!!!

Oh well!

((((73)))) MILVERTON /W9MMS

On Sunday, July 20, 2014 9:31 AM, "Dr. William J. Schmidt, II" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>Have you ever listened to the interviews of the Indy car drivers after a
>race? Do they say: "I wish I had a less powerful engine to make it a more
>challenging race."?
>
>I'm on the DX end a lot these days, and I always find myself stopping a
>pileup to ask if there are any 10 watt or less stations calling. The
>response I get is usually three QRP stations responding (which I eventually
>work after 10 minutes of additional instruction to much louder stations)
>buried by 100's of QRO stations with massive antenna arrays.
>
>Tough to win!
>
>
>Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ / J68HZ/ 8P6HK/ ZF2HZ/ PJ4HZ/ VP5HZ
>
>Owner - Operator
>Big Signal Ranch - NA-QRO Club
>Staunton, Illinois
>
>email: [hidden email]
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wes
>(N7WS)
>Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 9:05 AM
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power out - key down
>
>The problem with this is, if everyone else is as misguided, then they are
>transmitting with ten watts too. So their signals are 10 to 20+ dB weaker
>than
>with higher power, hence there are fewer stations to work, ie. less DX.
>
>Furthermore, with more power, faster modes of communicating are possible.
>More
>stations can make QSOs in a given time, which can actually *lower* the total
>QRM
>level.
>
>Of course, all of this is from a DXer's perspective. If watching paint dry
>is
>your thing then stick with QRP.
>
>Wes N7WS
>
>
>
>
>On 7/19/2014 8:07 PM, Bill Turner wrote:
>> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)
>>
>> On 7/19/2014 5:44 PM, Gerald Manthey wrote:
>>> and I work the world on 10 watts.
>>
>> REPLY:
>>
>> I encourage the Geralds of the world to continue with their ten watts.
>>
>> Makes DXing easier for the rest of us. :-)
>>
>> 73, Bill W6WRT
>
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>
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Edward R Cole

Re: K3 power out - key down

In reply to this post by Stephen M. Shearer

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power out - key down
Message-ID: <011e01cfa426$5fba6f80$1f2f4e80$@wjschmidt.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Have you ever listened to the interviews of the Indy car drivers after a
race? Do they say: "I wish I had a less powerful engine to make it a more
challenging race."?

I'm on the DX end a lot these days, and I always find myself stopping a
pileup to ask if there are any 10 watt or less stations calling. The
response I get is usually three QRP stations responding (which I eventually
work after 10 minutes of additional instruction to much louder stations)
buried by 100's of QRO stations with massive antenna arrays.

Tough to win!

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ / J68HZ/ 8P6HK/ ZF2HZ/ PJ4HZ/ VP5HZ
----------------
Wow has this topic morphed...I was only following it casually, but it
"was" (I think) about what power level is "safe" to run on the K3
with "key-down" modes like JT65. RTTY is pretty hard on the
transmitter, as well. FM would be the hardest as it is usually
accompanied by marathon talk-a-thons (note most VHF-FM radios are
equipped with time-out-timers set to a max of 3-minutes). JT65 runs
about 50-seconds in Tx and then rests for about 70-seconds in Rx
(2-minute TX/RX cycle). The K3/10 seems to be happy at 8w running
JT65 on 6m (I have not run JT65 on HF). Psk-31 runs well at 12w with
my K3/10 with no apparent heating issue. Note: I have a 300w sspa
that runs 275w on HF with 12w drive when I need more for SSB.

I suspect all you have switched to talking about normal CW/SSB ham
radio - they do not compare to JT65, JT9, etc. These are superior
"weak-signal" modes designed for when signals are too weak to copy
using CW. The software provides about 10-dB better SNR (making the
10w JT65 signal equivalent to 100w CW).

On HF, SNR requirements are very much lower than the usual RF level
used by hams. Evidence: look at the QRP-SSB check-in's that are
quite satisfactory on the Sunday Elecraft Net. I checked in this
morning with 12w with my K3/10 "barefoot" and was heard on the first
call by Phil. Yes, I run an old triband beam at 50-feet which helps.

My s-meter report would be about 2-units higher if I ran 100w, but
that was not necessary for the communications link. Working
contests/DX, is a different "animal" as you are dealing with QRM and
not specifically weak signals. How many of you are using JT65 for
contesting or Dx'ing? You can, you know! (probably too slow for you)

I just finished operating the Dubus Magazine 2-meter digital EME
Contest where I ran JT65B with 1000w and four ten-element
yagis. Yes, it was weak-signal and I did run QRO. I have run as
little as 150w on 2m-eme successfully by using JT65, but it is more
difficult to make contacts and not particularly a good idea in a
contest. Minimum time to complete a valid JT65 eme contact is
5-minutes if you have a good to great signal. Running 150w would
probably extend the time required by a considerable amount - not
desirable in a contest.

PS, Dr. Schmidt: I am not picking on you, just happened to decide to
comment at your post! ;-)
Oh and how many folks drive an indy car to the market? Different
needs require different means.

Note: I began 2m digital-eme in 2003 using JT44 precursor to JT65, so
have a few years experience in its use.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

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Bill Turner-2

Re: K3 power out - key down

ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)

On 7/20/2014 12:36 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:
> The software provides about 10-dB better SNR (making the 10w JT65
> signal equivalent to 100w CW).

REPLY:

I find an 8877 provides about 22 dB SNR over ten watts. :-)

73, Bill W6WRT

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alsopb

Re: K3 power out - key down

I'm not a QRP fan for DX. However, one can definitely copy a weaker
signal with JT65. No matter how much power you have, you can't work
them if you can't copy them. It seems like the magic combo is 1500 W
and JT65 on both ends. I think guys are resorting to this on 160M to
try and squeeze out a new one or two.

The five minutes or so per QSO is a bummer though.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 7/20/2014 21:09, Bill Turner wrote:

> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)
>
> On 7/20/2014 12:36 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:
>> The software provides about 10-dB better SNR (making the 10w JT65
>> signal equivalent to 100w CW).
>
> REPLY:
>
> I find an 8877 provides about 22 dB SNR over ten watts. :-)
>
> 73, Bill W6WRT
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Wes (N7WS)

Re: K3 power out - key down

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Not if exchanging call signs takes 10 minutes instead of ten seconds.

On 7/20/2014 8:57 AM, Milverton M. Swire via Elecraft wrote:

>>>> which can actually *lower* the total QRM
> level. <<<
>
>
> And! here all along, I thought " LESS Power, LESS QRM"!!!
>
>
> Oh well!
>
>
> ((((73)))) MILVERTON /W9MMS
>