K3: "secret" hardware changes?
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K3: "secret" hardware changes?
 
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G4ILO posted:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2008-February/083716.html Is this just a rumor or factual? I find the idea that this actually has happened to be very scary (the "unannounced" part). Eric, Wayne, etc....any comments? de Doug KR2Q _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3: "secret" hardware changes?
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I've been wondering about the hardware mods mentioned here:
http://www.bavarian-contest-club.de/projects/K3_english.pdf in section 6 "Elecraft Says". Which, if any, of these are incorporated in current production? Bob NW8L On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 8:16 AM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL <[hidden email]> wrote: > G4ILO posted: > http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2008-February/083716.html > > Is this just a rumor or factual? I find the idea that this actually > has happened to be very scary (the "unannounced" part). > > Eric, Wayne, etc....any comments? > > de Doug KR2Q > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: K3: "secret" hardware changes?
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In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
I too am wondering about this. If I had the choice, I'd rather wait a
bit and get one that already has the mods. - Keith N1AS - - K2 5411.ssb.100 - - K3 Wave 3 - -----Original Message----- G4ILO posted: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2008-February/083716.html Is this just a rumor or factual? I find the idea that this actually has happened to be very scary (the "unannounced" part). Eric, Wayne, etc....any comments? de Doug KR2Q _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:
> G4ILO posted: > http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2008-February/083716.html > > Is this just a rumor or factual? I find the idea that this actually > has happened to be very scary (the "unannounced" part). There's an IMD mod to the Hardware AGC circuit. It is not complicated and can be done with leaded components (or SMT) in a few minutes. I do not know if it has been added to production radios yet or if the ARRL's unit has it. There have been several versions of it. Perhaps Elecraft hasn't settled on a final version. Improvements in turnaround time for AMTOR (etc.) have been made in firmware. Further improvement is planned; I don't know if it will be made in firmware or hardware There is a single capacitor whose value was changed to improve CW waveshape. I'm sure that at some point -- if it is decided to add these changes to production radios -- Elecraft will tell us what serial numbers are affected and how to do them if we wish, just like they did with the K2. If they are not announced, it's not because they will be forever secret. It's because the Elecraft staff has plenty to do without dealing with this right now. Would it be better for Elecraft to not make any changes where they see an opportunity for improvement? -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3: "secret" hardware changes?
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Given the high quality of the engineers in the test group it's only to be
expected that there will be enhancements, I wish I had a groups as good as this for my day job. None of the changes made are critical, I'm sure they'll be documented later. As has been said, they are minor changes, FWIW I can't be bothered to add them. We have the leading performance radio for the price of an average radio from Japan, the K3 will only get better as the firmware matures. Simon Brown, HB9DRV -------------------------------------------------- From: "Vic K2VCO" <[hidden email]> > > If they are not announced, it's not because they will be forever secret. > It's because the Elecraft staff has plenty to do without dealing with this > right now. > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3: "secret" hardware changes?
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In reply to this post by Vic K2VCO
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Vic K2VCO wrote:
> > There's an IMD mod to the Hardware AGC circuit. It is not complicated and can > be done with leaded components (or SMT) in a few minutes. I do not know if it > has been added to production radios yet or if the ARRL's unit has it. For those of us that can not build, hardware updates and not a simple matter...and sending it back to Aptos is a financial burden. And so, one of the costs of being an eary adopter who doesn't build is sending things back to Aptos. The real question for me is how many other hardware changes that can be done in a few minutes will come up during the warranty period. 73 k3hrn Blessed be those with a target on the back of their shirts, for they shall be called pioneers. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Personally, I find this thread a bit silly. Anyone who
thinks ANY radio won't be subject to improvement along the way is smoking something! The alternative is to wait until a model is near the end of it's life cycle, in which case there will be a "new and improved" model coming out shortly! At least with Elecraft you have a 90% chance of being able to upgrade yourself if it's really that critical. All you have to do is look at the K2 to confirm that fact. And I don't think Elecraft is hiding anything about changes either. A lot of this stuff has been mentioned in postings here on the reflector, but that means you have to pay attention. Besides, I think some of these at least may not have been highlighted on the Elecraft website because they are still tinkering with them. I don't blame Elecraft at all for not waiving a red flag until they have an appropriate solution figured out. I challenge anyone to show me a manufacturer who has been more open than Elecraft about issues/enhancements and how to solve them. Dave W7AQK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thom LaCosta" <[hidden email]> To: "Vic K2VCO" <[hidden email]> Cc: <[hidden email]>; "DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL" <[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: "secret" hardware changes? > On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Vic K2VCO wrote: > >> >> There's an IMD mod to the Hardware AGC circuit. It is not >> complicated and can be done with leaded components (or >> SMT) in a few minutes. I do not know if it has been added >> to production radios yet or if the ARRL's unit has it. > > For those of us that can not build, hardware updates and > not a simple matter...and sending it back to Aptos is a > financial burden. > > And so, one of the costs of being an eary adopter who > doesn't build is sending things back to Aptos. > > The real question for me is how many other hardware > changes that can be done in a few minutes will come up > during the warranty period. > > 73 k3hrn > Blessed be those with a target on the back of their > shirts, for they shall be > called pioneers. > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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>On 2/27/08, T. David Yarnes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Personally, I find this thread a bit silly. Once again, I think most folks are wildly missing the point, which is NOT that changes have been made, but that Elecraft has apparently not been forthcoming with the changes. Two ENTIRELY different issues. 73, Steve NN4X _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3: "secret" hardware changes?
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From: "S Sacco" <[hidden email]> > > ...but that Elecraft has apparently not been forthcoming with the changes. > Because they are being finalised with field testers! _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Simon -
Wasn't there a rumored change around the S/N 350 mark that people were talking about, too? That's the one I was specifically thinking about when I wrote what I did. 73, Steve NN4X On 2/27/08, Simon Brown (HB9DRV) <[hidden email]> wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "S Sacco" <[hidden email]> > > > > ...but that Elecraft has apparently not been forthcoming with the changes. > > > > Because they are being finalised with field testers! > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by S Sacco
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:00:06 -0500, you wrote:
>>On 2/27/08, T. David Yarnes <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Personally, I find this thread a bit silly. > >Once again, I think most folks are wildly missing the point, which is >NOT that changes have been made, but that Elecraft has apparently not >been forthcoming with the changes. > >Two ENTIRELY different issues. > >73, >Steve NN4X All who agree with Steve that "Elecraft has apparently not been forthcoming with the changes", please ask Elecraft to hold your orders until there are never going to be any more improvements, so I can get my K3 sooner and make any modifications they recommend. Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin 1775 Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like. http://www.n5ge.com http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
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Tom -
> All who agree with Steve that "Elecraft has apparently not > been forthcoming with the changes", please ask Elecraft to hold your orders > until there are never going to be any more improvements, so I can get my K3 > sooner and make any modifications they recommend. > > > Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq Again, the point is whether changes have been communicated. Those who wish to postpone/cancel/whatever would then be in a position to make that decision. Let me provide another example: The 1 PPM KTCXO3-1 is currently available and offered for sale. I included one with my order on June 18th 2007. It was represented as available at that time, too. As I was assembling my K3 last weekend, I was surprised to learn that, even after all this time, the firmware for the KTCXO3-1 is not available. No mention is made of this at Elecraft's web site, yet they still offer the KTCXO3-1 for sale. Wouldn't it be more, shall we say "honest", for lack of a better term, to NOT offer the KTCXO3-1 for sale until the software to utilize it is actually shipping? Barring that, perhaps a note next to the KTCXO3-1 on the ordering page, advising of the firmware status would be the "right" thing to do, so folks aren't spending $100 for something they can't use? Same kind of thing. Ben Franklin would have understood. He's my fav Founding Father. I read someplace the the other Founding Fathers wouldn't let him write the Constitution, because they were afraid he'd slip a joke or two in there! My kind of guy. :-) 73, Steve NN4X _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: K3: "secret" hardware changes?
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In reply to this post by S Sacco
> Once again, I think most folks are wildly missing the point, which is > NOT that changes have been made, but that Elecraft has apparently not > been forthcoming with the changes. Since when does any manufacturer have an affirmative duty to publicly discuss prospective design changes? I'm sure that Elecraft will announce modification kits for those who wish to purchase updates. No manufacturer's warranty ever includes design changes or product upgrades (other than perhaps firmware upgrades). 73, ... Joe, W4TV > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of S Sacco > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 3:00 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: "secret" hardware changes? > > > >On 2/27/08, T. David Yarnes <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Personally, I find this thread a bit silly. > > Once again, I think most folks are wildly missing the point, which is > NOT that changes have been made, but that Elecraft has apparently not > been forthcoming with the changes. > > Two ENTIRELY different issues. > > 73, > Steve NN4X > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Hi Joe -
ONCE AGAIN, I'm referring to ALREADY MADE changes, such as the one rumored to have occurred around S/N 350. A-L-R-E-A-D-Y M-A-D-E changes. 73, Steve NN4X On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Once again, I think most folks are wildly missing the point, which is > > NOT that changes have been made, but that Elecraft has apparently not > > been forthcoming with the changes. > > Since when does any manufacturer have an affirmative duty to publicly > discuss prospective design changes? I'm sure that Elecraft will > announce modification kits for those who wish to purchase updates. > > No manufacturer's warranty ever includes design changes or product > upgrades (other than perhaps firmware upgrades). > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [hidden email] > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of S Sacco > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 3:00 PM > > To: [hidden email] > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: "secret" hardware changes? > > > > > > > > >On 2/27/08, T. David Yarnes <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Personally, I find this thread a bit silly. > > > > Once again, I think most folks are wildly missing the point, which is > > NOT that changes have been made, but that Elecraft has apparently not > > been forthcoming with the changes. > > > > Two ENTIRELY different issues. > > > > 73, > > Steve NN4X > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Post to: [hidden email] > > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-3
"ONCE AGAIN, I'm referring to ALREADY MADE changes, such as the one
rumored to have occurred around S/N 350. A-L-R-E-A-D-Y M-A-D-E changes." So, how many equipment vendors out there tell folks what changes they've already made? In the past, Elecraft decides about changes, tests them, puts together a mod kit, and then makes the mod kit available to anyone interested. All we have to do is wait a bit, and I'm sure the mod kits will show up. Phil - AD5X _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3: "secret" hardware changes?
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In reply to this post by S Sacco
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, S Sacco wrote:
> ONCE AGAIN, I'm referring to ALREADY MADE changes, such as the one > rumored to have occurred around S/N 350. And so much of the discussion could be short-circuited if Elecraft told folks that there had been a change, what the change was, with what serial number it started and their plans to get the pre change units modified. They wouldn't even have to announce a date, but simply that they plan to take action. Instead, by not being forthcoming, the rumor mill ramps up, the loyalists post to convince the sceptics and vice-versa. The danger of making the announcement is that if status updates are as timely as the promised delivery status reports were, then the problem is compounded. 73 k3hrn Thom,EIEIO Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer www.baltimorehon.com/ Home of the Baltimore Lexicon www.tlchost.net/hosting/ Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: K3: "secret" hardware changes?
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> And so much of the discussion could be short-circuited if > Elecraft told folks that there had been a change, what the > change was, with what serial number it started and their > plans to get the pre change units modified. If you would listen to the rumors - and do a little research - instead of yammering about Elecraft hiding things from the customers and hinting about evil motives, you will find out that the hardware AGC modification (the one you're talking about) is still under review. Elecraft have made a change and are evaluating it. There is consideration of further increasing the threshold at which the HAGC begins to act. Why on earth would Elecraft publicly discuss a change that they haven't finalized? The information you're getting in in pieces is still "work in progress." I'm sure Eric or Wayne will announce all the details when they are final. Public discussion on their part prior to having the answers would be premature. > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Thom LaCosta > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:14 PM > To: S Sacco > Cc: Elecraft Reflector > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: "secret" hardware changes? > > > On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, S Sacco wrote: > > > ONCE AGAIN, I'm referring to ALREADY MADE changes, such as the one > > rumored to have occurred around S/N 350. > > And so much of the discussion could be short-circuited if > Elecraft told > folks that there had been a change, what the change was, with > what serial number > it started and their plans to get the pre change units modified. > > They wouldn't even have to announce a date, but simply that > they plan to > take action. > > Instead, by not being forthcoming, the rumor mill ramps up, > the loyalists post > to convince the sceptics and vice-versa. > > The danger of making the announcement is that if status > updates are as timely as > the promised delivery status reports were, then the problem > is compounded. > > 73 k3hrn > Thom,EIEIO > Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer > > www.baltimorehon.com/ Home of the Baltimore Lexicon > www.tlchost.net/hosting/ Web Hosting as low > as 3.49/month > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: [SPAM] RE: K3: "secret" hardware changes?
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At 01:29 AM 2/28/2008, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>If you would listen to the rumors - and do a little research - >instead of yammering about Elecraft hiding things from the >customers and hinting about evil motives, Use that paint brush on someone else. >you will find out >that the hardware AGC modification (the one you're talking >about) is still under review. Elecraft have made a change >and are evaluating it. There is consideration of further >increasing the threshold at which the HAGC begins to act. The rumors are out, and the best way to stop them is to have some official word from Elecraft....otherwise folks can choose whatever version of the rumor they feel is closest to the truth. >Why on earth would Elecraft publicly discuss a change that >they haven't finalized? To simply acknowledge that they are working to solve the problem. >The information you're getting in >in pieces is still "work in progress." I'm sure Eric or >Wayne will announce all the details when they are final. >Public discussion on their part prior to having the >answers would be premature. And so, with no word from them, folks can guess....some of the guesses will be wrong. Like the open barn door, the cats are out of the bag. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Thom LaCosta wrote:
> > And so, with no word from them, folks can guess....some of the guesses > will be wrong. > > Like the open barn door, the cats are out of the bag. Elvis is alive, Kennedy was assassinated by the CIA, the moon landings never happened and Princess Diana was killed by MI6 on instructions from the Royal Family. Good grief, Elecraft are running a business, not a charity. They do not have to explain a thing until they wish to. 73 Ian -- Ian J Maude, G0VGS SysOp GB7MBC DX Cluster Member RSGB, GQRP K2 #4044 |K3 #455 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: [SPAM] RE: K3: "secret" hardware changes?
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In reply to this post by Thom LaCosta
It is not a problem, it is an enhancement. Many of us in the field test /
bet team have told you what is happening, still you moan! When the time is right you will be officially informed by Elecraft. Simon Brown, HB9DRV -------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom LaCosta" <[hidden email]> > > To simply acknowledge that they are working to solve the problem. > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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