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K3 shortening CW dits

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Dave Hachadorian-2

K3 shortening CW dits

A sharp-eared operator at W3LPL told me that my CW keying sounded a little light in the CQWW contest. I am using a Winkeyer, controlled by N1MM Logger, connected to the KEY jack on the back of the K3.

An oscilloscope shows that the Winkeyer is producing a string of dits at the proper 50% duty cycle. However, looking at the RF envelope of the K3 output, the duty cycle is about 40%. Listening to the K3 on another receiver, the dit shortening is quite noticeable. If I set CONFIG: CW QRQ = ON, the transmitted dits are exactly 50% duty cycle. However I can’t live with the RIT, Split, etc. restrictions with QRQ ON.

I have two K3’s, and they both behave the same way. Any ideas out there?

Thanks!

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ
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Roy Koeppe

Re: K3 shortening CW dits

Increase the weight setting going into the K3 jack.

73, Roy K6XK

> harp-eared operator at W3LPL told me that my CW keying sounded a little light in the CQWW contest. I am using a Winkeyer, controlled by N1MM Logger, connected to the KEY jack on the back of the K3.
>
> An oscilloscope shows that the Winkeyer is producing a string of dits at the proper 50% duty cycle. However, looking at the RF envelope of the K3 output, the duty cycle is about 40%. Listening to the K3 on another receiver, the dit shortening is quite noticeable. If I set CONFIG: CW QRQ = ON, the transmitted dits are exactly 50% duty cycle. However I can’t live with the RIT, Split, etc. restrictions with QRQ ON.
>
> I have two K3’s, and they both behave the same way. Any ideas out there?
>

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Dave Hachadorian-2

Re: K3 shortening CW dits

Unfortunately I have not found a way to increase the weight of the Winkeyer
when it is under control of the N1MM Logging Program. I can change weight
with the Winkey Utility Program, and the K3 CW sounds fine, but when I exit
the utility, the weight setting is not sticky. I don't see any weight
setting in N1MM.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: Roy
Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2020 2:19 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 shortening CW dits

Increase the weight setting going into the K3 jack.

73, Roy K6XK

> harp-eared operator at W3LPL told me that my CW keying sounded a little
> light in the CQWW contest. I am using a Winkeyer, controlled by N1MM
> Logger, connected to the KEY jack on the back of the K3.
>
> An oscilloscope shows that the Winkeyer is producing a string of dits at
> the proper 50% duty cycle. However, looking at the RF envelope of the K3
> output, the duty cycle is about 40%. Listening to the K3 on another
> receiver, the dit shortening is quite noticeable. If I set CONFIG: CW QRQ
> = ON, the transmitted dits are exactly 50% duty cycle. However I can’t
> live with the RIT, Split, etc. restrictions with QRQ ON.
>
> I have two K3’s, and they both behave the same way. Any ideas out there?
>

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Dave Hachadorian-2

Re: K3 shortening CW dits

In reply to this post by Dave Hachadorian-2

Bingo! That's the answer! Many thanks Bill!

I confirm that keying compensation = 6 produces nice 50% duty cycle dits
with the K3.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: Willard Myers
Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2020 2:34 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 shortening CW dits

Dave,

What you have found applies to all K3 radios when keyed by the KEY IN port.
The key-down duration is too short by about 6 ms, independent of sending
speed. I address it by setting the Keying Compensation in my WinKeyer to 6.

Bill, K1GQ

Bill=

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Bob Wilson, N6TV

Re: K3 shortening CW dits

I posted various solutions to the K3 element shortening issue about 7 years
ago. See this link on my QRZ.COM page <https://qrz.com/db/n6tv>:

- How to get clean fast CW from an Elecraft K3 without using CW QRQ mode
<http://lists.f5mzn.org/pipermail/support/2013-November/083384.html> (post
to Win-Test Reflector, November 14th, 2013)

This was before the KSYN3A upgrades, which only helped the keying problem a
little. Element shortening is still there, and bad CW jitter is still
present in the K3 + KSYN3A at speeds above 37 WPM with external keying.
The internal K3 keyer sounds fine (it compensates), but external keying is
a problem. With VOX ON (QSK or semi-breakin), no PTT input, all keying
elements are shorted by the TX DLY. The default TX DLY nor 008 is really
closer to 6 ms delay, after you get the KSYN3A upgrade, hence 6 ms of
keying compensation required. A high TX DLY for a slow amp. relay makes
the problem much worse. Keying Compensation is unfortunately not available
in N1MM+ when using the convenient DTR and RTS CW keying over the K3 serial
port or the K3S USB cable (CONFIG:PTT-KEY RTS-TR), but it should be added
IMHO. This feature is already available in Win-Test.

More details and other fixes (e.g. use software generated PTT, no keying
compensation) are found in that post above.

The K4 has NO CW jitter problems that I've found, but element shortening by
TX DLY is still present, and I've filed bug reports about it, but it's not
at the top of their list yet.

73,
Bob, N6TV
K4 Field Tester

On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 2:01 PM Dave Hachadorian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Bingo! That's the answer! Many thanks Bill!
>
> I confirm that keying compensation = 6 produces nice 50% duty cycle dits
> with the K3.
>
> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
> Yuma, AZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willard Myers
> Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2020 2:34 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 shortening CW dits
>
> Dave,
>
> What you have found applies to all K3 radios when keyed by the KEY IN port.
> The key-down duration is too short by about 6 ms, independent of sending
> speed. I address it by setting the Keying Compensation in my WinKeyer to 6.
>
> Bill, K1GQ
>
> Bill=
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Bob Wilson, N6TV

Re: K3 shortening CW dits

That was supposed to say *CONFIG:PTT-KEY RTS-DTR*.

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 4:05 PM Bob Wilson, N6TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I posted various solutions to the K3 element shortening issue about 7
> years ago. See this link on my QRZ.COM page <https://qrz.com/db/n6tv>:
>
> - How to get clean fast CW from an Elecraft K3 without using CW QRQ
> mode
> <http://lists.f5mzn.org/pipermail/support/2013-November/083384.html> (post
> to Win-Test Reflector, November 14th, 2013)
>
> This was before the KSYN3A upgrades, which only helped the keying problem
> a little. Element shortening is still there, and bad CW jitter is still
> present in the K3 + KSYN3A at speeds above 37 WPM with external keying.
> The internal K3 keyer sounds fine (it compensates), but external keying is
> a problem. With VOX ON (QSK or semi-breakin), no PTT input, all keying
> elements are shorted by the TX DLY. The default TX DLY nor 008 is really
> closer to 6 ms delay, after you get the KSYN3A upgrade, hence 6 ms of
> keying compensation required. A high TX DLY for a slow amp. relay makes
> the problem much worse. Keying Compensation is unfortunately not available
> in N1MM+ when using the convenient DTR and RTS CW keying over the K3 serial
> port or the K3S USB cable (CONFIG:PTT-KEY RTS-TR), but it should be added
> IMHO. This feature is already available in Win-Test.
>
> More details and other fixes (e.g. use software generated PTT, no keying
> compensation) are found in that post above.
>
> The K4 has NO CW jitter problems that I've found, but element shortening
> by TX DLY is still present, and I've filed bug reports about it, but it's
> not at the top of their list yet.
>
> 73,
> Bob, N6TV
> K4 Field Tester
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 2:01 PM Dave Hachadorian <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Bingo! That's the answer! Many thanks Bill!
>>
>> I confirm that keying compensation = 6 produces nice 50% duty cycle dits
>> with the K3.
>>
>> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
>> Yuma, AZ
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Willard Myers
>> Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2020 2:34 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 shortening CW dits
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> What you have found applies to all K3 radios when keyed by the KEY IN
>> port.
>> The key-down duration is too short by about 6 ms, independent of sending
>> speed. I address it by setting the Keying Compensation in my WinKeyer to
>> 6.
>>
>> Bill, K1GQ
>>
>> Bill=
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>

Björn Ekelund

Re: K3 shortening CW dits

In reply to this post by Bob Wilson, N6TV

Bob,

where you do you find the keying compensation for COM-port keying in
Win-Test? Weight?

Björn SM7IUN

Den tis 8 dec. 2020 kl 01:06 skrev Bob Wilson, N6TV <[hidden email]>:

> I posted various solutions to the K3 element shortening issue about 7 years
> ago. See this link on my QRZ.COM page <https://qrz.com/db/n6tv>:
>
> - How to get clean fast CW from an Elecraft K3 without using CW QRQ mode
> <http://lists.f5mzn.org/pipermail/support/2013-November/083384.html>
> (post
> to Win-Test Reflector, November 14th, 2013)
>
> This was before the KSYN3A upgrades, which only helped the keying problem a
> little. Element shortening is still there, and bad CW jitter is still
> present in the K3 + KSYN3A at speeds above 37 WPM with external keying.
> The internal K3 keyer sounds fine (it compensates), but external keying is
> a problem. With VOX ON (QSK or semi-breakin), no PTT input, all keying
> elements are shorted by the TX DLY. The default TX DLY nor 008 is really
> closer to 6 ms delay, after you get the KSYN3A upgrade, hence 6 ms of
> keying compensation required. A high TX DLY for a slow amp. relay makes
> the problem much worse. Keying Compensation is unfortunately not available
> in N1MM+ when using the convenient DTR and RTS CW keying over the K3 serial
> port or the K3S USB cable (CONFIG:PTT-KEY RTS-TR), but it should be added
> IMHO. This feature is already available in Win-Test.
>
> More details and other fixes (e.g. use software generated PTT, no keying
> compensation) are found in that post above.
>
> The K4 has NO CW jitter problems that I've found, but element shortening by
> TX DLY is still present, and I've filed bug reports about it, but it's not
> at the top of their list yet.
>
> 73,
> Bob, N6TV
> K4 Field Tester
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 2:01 PM Dave Hachadorian <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Bingo! That's the answer! Many thanks Bill!
> >
> > I confirm that keying compensation = 6 produces nice 50% duty cycle dits
> > with the K3.
> >
> > Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
> > Yuma, AZ
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Willard Myers
> > Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2020 2:34 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 shortening CW dits
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > What you have found applies to all K3 radios when keyed by the KEY IN
> port.
> > The key-down duration is too short by about 6 ms, independent of sending
> > speed. I address it by setting the Keying Compensation in my WinKeyer to
> 6.
> >
> > Bill, K1GQ
> >
> > Bill=
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>