Elecraft

K3 synthesizer question

Classic

List

Threaded

27 messages Options

James Lanier

K3 synthesizer question

Just curious. The synthesizer uses a DDS which feeds the PLL circuit. The DDS output is filtered through a 4 pole crystal filter to remove spurs. So why use a DDS at all? The only thing I can figure is that a DDS always has lower phase noise than the DDS reference oscillator. Is this why?

Jim

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

wayne burdick

Re: K3 synthesizer question

Administrator

The PLL provides coarse tuning steps only. The DDS provides fine tuning steps. The DDS crystal filter removes spurs from the DDS, which would otherwise be seen in the PLL's output. (Many radios use DDS directly, with no PLL, leading to unwanted spurious responses in both RX and TX.)

The PLL's step size is on the order of 20 kHz. Since the DDS filter is much narrower, we have to constantly recalculate the PLL divider values as you tune the VFO. A lot of magic was required in firmware.

73,
Wayne
N6KW

On Jan 14, 2015, at 3:40 PM, "James Lanier" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just curious. The synthesizer uses a DDS which feeds the PLL circuit. The DDS output is filtered through a 4 pole crystal filter to remove spurs. So why use a DDS at all? The only thing I can figure is that a DDS always has lower phase noise than the DDS reference oscillator. Is this why?
>
> Jim

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bruce Beford-4

Re: K3 synthesizer question

In reply to this post by James Lanier

> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KW

Wayne,
Have you sworn off QRP? Looks like a QRO call sign change to me ?
8-)
72/73,
Bruce N1RX

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

wayne burdick

Re: K3 synthesizer question

Administrator

Semantic leakage. At Sears I was coveting a 4K TV.

Wayne
"KR"

----
http://www.elecraft.com

On Jan 15, 2015, at 5:53 AM, "Bruce Beford" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KW
>
> Wayne,
> Have you sworn off QRP? Looks like a QRO call sign change to me ?
> 8-)
> 72/73,
> Bruce N1RX
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Dave-7

K3 bugs

In reply to this post by James Lanier

Recently purchased a K3 kit. Have noted a couple of bugs. Wonder if
anyone else has seen these:

1) After I put the kit together, while doing the testing, I noted that
if I cycled through the modes via the left side of the mode button
(mode dn), every time it went into AM mode it keyed the TX for a
second or maybe two. Did not do this when pressing the right side of
the mode button (mode up) and going into AM. This was not simply
lighting the TX light. The external power meter confirmed that RF was
being generated. All other changes of mode appeared to be fine.

2) Just now turned the K3 on. Switched to 80m. Mode was CW before and
after the change of bands. After a few seconds I noted there was no
audio coming from the speaker. Switched to 60m (USB), audio. Switched
to 40m (CW), audio. Switched back to 80, no audio. Cycled through the
modes. Audio was heard on LSB, AM, Data, and suddenly audio was heard
on 80m CW. And . . . while cycling through the modes I noted that the
TX was no longer keyed when switching to AM via the mode dn button.

Are these bugs related? Has anyone else seen either of these?

I'd really like to see Elecraft spend the necessary effort to
thoroughly debug the K3 before spending much effort adding features
that only a handful of ops will ever use.

73 de dave
ab9ca/4
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Gary Gregory-2

Re: K3 bugs

You didn't mention what response you got from Elecraft Support?

The guys in support are darn good at their job from my experience.

Gary

On 16 January 2015 at 09:05, dave <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Recently purchased a K3 kit. Have noted a couple of bugs. Wonder if anyone
> else has seen these:
>
> 1) After I put the kit together, while doing the testing, I noted that if
> I cycled through the modes via the left side of the mode button (mode dn),
> every time it went into AM mode it keyed the TX for a second or maybe two.
> Did not do this when pressing the right side of the mode button (mode up)
> and going into AM. This was not simply lighting the TX light. The external
> power meter confirmed that RF was being generated. All other changes of
> mode appeared to be fine.
>
> 2) Just now turned the K3 on. Switched to 80m. Mode was CW before and
> after the change of bands. After a few seconds I noted there was no audio
> coming from the speaker. Switched to 60m (USB), audio. Switched to 40m
> (CW), audio. Switched back to 80, no audio. Cycled through the modes. Audio
> was heard on LSB, AM, Data, and suddenly audio was heard on 80m CW. And . .
> . while cycling through the modes I noted that the TX was no longer keyed
> when switching to AM via the mode dn button.
>
> Are these bugs related? Has anyone else seen either of these?
>
> I'd really like to see Elecraft spend the necessary effort to thoroughly
> debug the K3 before spending much effort adding features that only a
> handful of ops will ever use.
>
>
> 73 de dave
> ab9ca/4
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

--

*Gary - VK1ZZ, K3NHLSkype: Gary.VK1ZZhttp://www.qsl.net/vk1zz
<http://www.qsl.net/vk1zz>Motorhome Portable*
*"Grumpy's House"*

*Elecraft K3KPA500FTKAT500FT*
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

wayne burdick

Re: K3 bugs

Administrator

In reply to this post by Dave-7

Hi Dave,

I haven't heard of either of these problems before. (In general, we try to eliminate any significant bug right away.) Please forward this to our customer support department, and if they don't have fixes or workarounds, they'll let me know so I can add them to my firmware list.

Your first item makes me wonder if you have VOX turned on and a live mic nearby.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Jan 15, 2015, at 3:05 PM, dave <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Recently purchased a K3 kit. Have noted a couple of bugs. Wonder if anyone else has seen these:
>
> 1) After I put the kit together, while doing the testing, I noted that if I cycled through the modes via the left side of the mode button (mode dn), every time it went into AM mode it keyed the TX for a second or maybe two. Did not do this when pressing the right side of the mode button (mode up) and going into AM. This was not simply lighting the TX light. The external power meter confirmed that RF was being generated. All other changes of mode appeared to be fine.
>
> 2) Just now turned the K3 on. Switched to 80m. Mode was CW before and after the change of bands. After a few seconds I noted there was no audio coming from the speaker. Switched to 60m (USB), audio. Switched to 40m (CW), audio. Switched back to 80, no audio. Cycled through the modes. Audio was heard on LSB, AM, Data, and suddenly audio was heard on 80m CW. And . . . while cycling through the modes I noted that the TX was no longer keyed when switching to AM via the mode dn button.
>
> Are these bugs related? Has anyone else seen either of these?
>
> I'd really like to see Elecraft spend the necessary effort to thoroughly debug the K3 before spending much effort adding features that only a handful of ops will ever use.
>
>
> 73 de dave
> ab9ca/4
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 bugs

In reply to this post by Dave-7

Dave,

Is there any chance that you pressed the MODE ^ button instead of just
tapping it.
If so, note that a hold of that button puts the K3 into TX TEST - no RF
is generated, but all other controls and electronic switches go to the
transmit state.
On 1/15/2015 6:05 PM, dave wrote:

>
> Recently purchased a K3 kit. Have noted a couple of bugs. Wonder if
> anyone else has seen these:
>
> 1) After I put the kit together, while doing the testing, I noted that
> if I cycled through the modes via the left side of the mode button
> (mode dn), every time it went into AM mode it keyed the TX for a
> second or maybe two. Did not do this when pressing the right side of
> the mode button (mode up) and going into AM. This was not simply
> lighting the TX light. The external power meter confirmed that RF was
> being generated. All other changes of mode appeared to be fine.
>
> 2) Just now turned the K3 on. Switched to 80m. Mode was CW before and
> after the change of bands. After a few seconds I noted there was no
> audio coming from the speaker. Switched to 60m (USB), audio. Switched
> to 40m (CW), audio. Switched back to 80, no audio. Cycled through the
> modes. Audio was heard on LSB, AM, Data, and suddenly audio was heard
> on 80m CW. And . . . while cycling through the modes I noted that the
> TX was no longer keyed when switching to AM via the mode dn button.
>
> Are these bugs related? Has anyone else seen either of these?
>
> I'd really like to see Elecraft spend the necessary effort to
> thoroughly debug the K3 before spending much effort adding features
> that only a handful of ops will ever use.
>
>
> 73 de dave
> ab9ca/4
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

k6dgw

Re: K3 bugs

In reply to this post by Dave-7

Hmmm ... that went from the question, "Has anyone seen these" to
"Elecraft ships gear full of bugs" awfully fast. :-))

In answer to the question and #1, I just tried it and my K3 [S/N 642]
doesn't do what you describe. If I understand #2 right, your's quit
doing it too.

In answer to the question and #2, since mine has never done it, I can't
duplicate it.

The K3 has a complex algorithm and state diagram for what gets
"remembered" when going from one state to the next. There are an almost
countable infinity of possible states. It takes awhile to become
familiar with it, even for just your normal operating which for most
people means a tiny fraction of the possible state changes. Also, like
all things electronic these days, turning your K3 off with the front
panel button and removing all power are *not* the same thing.

Early on with mine, I lost 30 meters. SWR on TX was infinite and no
signals or band noise, any mode. All the other bands/modes seemed to be
normal. Wayne [yes, co-owner of the company and designer of the radio]
called me, and starting simple, asked me which antenna was selected on
30 meters. Somewhere in all the button-poking/menu-exploration I'd been
doing to learn about my new radio, I'd selected ANT 2 on 30 meters which
it dutifully remembered, and when I re-selected ANT 1 for 30 ... I
became a very happy but really embarrassed ham. Over the years, others
have confessed to these sorts of technical difficulties in their minds
on this list. As time has passed, I've amassed a collection of such
things in my station notebook ... they've all been pilot problems. One
deserves mention --

I noticed that when I pushed or held a button, something unrelated to
what I was trying to do would occasionally happen. "There must be
something wrong with my front panel switch matrix," right? Well ... no.
The K3 is not in the heavyweight class of radios and we all know who's
weigh 60 lbs. Fooling around, I tried holding the K3 while I selected
buttons and all was well. It and the P3 now have little tabs
double-sided moulding tape under the front feet, they do not move on the
shelf when I tap/hold, and my front panel switch matrix is actually just
fine.

If your problems persist, [hidden email] is amazingly good. So is
a lot of the advice on this list, especially from a number who really
know, you'll soon figure out who they are. Fred Cady's manual is also a
huge resource if you don't already have it.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

On 1/15/2015 3:05 PM, dave wrote:

>
> Recently purchased a K3 kit. Have noted a couple of bugs. Wonder if
> anyone else has seen these:
>
> 1) After I put the kit together, while doing the testing, I noted that
> if I cycled through the modes via the left side of the mode button (mode
> dn), every time it went into AM mode it keyed the TX for a second or
> maybe two. Did not do this when pressing the right side of the mode
> button (mode up) and going into AM. This was not simply lighting the TX
> light. The external power meter confirmed that RF was being generated.
> All other changes of mode appeared to be fine.
>
> 2) Just now turned the K3 on. Switched to 80m. Mode was CW before and
> after the change of bands. After a few seconds I noted there was no
> audio coming from the speaker. Switched to 60m (USB), audio. Switched to
> 40m (CW), audio. Switched back to 80, no audio. Cycled through the
> modes. Audio was heard on LSB, AM, Data, and suddenly audio was heard on
> 80m CW. And . . . while cycling through the modes I noted that the TX
> was no longer keyed when switching to AM via the mode dn button.
>
> Are these bugs related? Has anyone else seen either of these?
>
> I'd really like to see Elecraft spend the necessary effort to thoroughly
> debug the K3 before spending much effort adding features that only a
> handful of ops will ever use.
>
>
> 73 de dave
> ab9ca/4
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4260/8936 - Release Date: 01/15/15
>
>

Phil Wheeler-2

Re: K3 bugs

In reply to this post by Dave-7

Dave,

At this stage of things most "bugs" are really
operator errors due to lack of familiarity with
the rig. Of course, you could have a hardware
problem with your specific unit, but that's not
likely. Best is to call tech support and ask for
advice.

73, Phil W7OX

On 1/15/15 3:05 PM, dave wrote:

>
> Recently purchased a K3 kit. Have noted a couple
> of bugs. Wonder if anyone else has seen these:
>
> 1) After I put the kit together, while doing the
> testing, I noted that if I cycled through the
> modes via the left side of the mode button (mode
> dn), every time it went into AM mode it keyed
> the TX for a second or maybe two. Did not do
> this when pressing the right side of the mode
> button (mode up) and going into AM. This was not
> simply lighting the TX light. The external power
> meter confirmed that RF was being generated. All
> other changes of mode appeared to be fine.
>
> 2) Just now turned the K3 on. Switched to 80m.
> Mode was CW before and after the change of
> bands. After a few seconds I noted there was no
> audio coming from the speaker. Switched to 60m
> (USB), audio. Switched to 40m (CW), audio.
> Switched back to 80, no audio. Cycled through
> the modes. Audio was heard on LSB, AM, Data, and
> suddenly audio was heard on 80m CW. And . . .
> while cycling through the modes I noted that the
> TX was no longer keyed when switching to AM via
> the mode dn button.
>
> Are these bugs related? Has anyone else seen
> either of these?
>
> I'd really like to see Elecraft spend the
> necessary effort to thoroughly debug the K3
> before spending much effort adding features that
> only a handful of ops will ever use.
>
>
> 73 de dave
> ab9ca/4

Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3 bugs

I have not seen the issue hear and I'm running the latest released firmware (and I suspect your was factory loaded with the latest)
Could be a mechanical issue; Something like the wrong length screw causing something to short out?

I would suspect a possible assembly error, but it could be a real issue with the radio.Personally I'd call support and work with them to resolve this issue.

I'm a bit critical of Elecraft; because being the son of a German Engineer and in a technical field I tend to look at things in a very critical light).But even as critical as I am of Elecraft they do make a sound product and they do listen to their customer base.

I would say they do tend to spend a good amount of debugging time.

PS: Being the son of a German Engineer, and being in technical fields my whole career I'm very critical of Elecraft.That being said they so make a sound product, plus they do listen to their customers.

On 1/15/15 3:05 PM, dave wrote:

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: K3 bugs

I find it simply amazing that some folks could think Elecraft in some buggy
error-prone category. A K3 is a software defined radio with a degree of
necessary hardware adjunct. To anyone who insists that software should not
be shipped until all bugs are removed, my answer is "GET REAL".

<<< ALL software is buggy. >>>

ALL of it. For ANY purpose. On ANY platform. In ANY software language. From
ANY developer. From ANY country. ANY length of time in the field. No
exceptions, ever.

Every piece of software, past, present or future, DIES in obsolescence,
with bugs still in it. No exceptions, ever.

No paid developer can fix, nor paid tester find all bugs. Cannot possibly
be done.

Nobody can imagine, and post up in a testing plan, the entirety of customer
reality. None of us have brains that can hold anything but a tiny fraction
of the entirety of customer reality.

Software that has not been debugged by CUSTOMERS in REAL situations cannot
be trusted in real situations.

You will never eat any food without a germ on it. That's why you, the
customer, has an immune system.

<<< The only thing that counts is whether the company is RESPONSIVE, and
has a HISTORY of improvements in their software. >>>

You go check all those other ham radio companies and find out who is
responsive and has a history of improvements.

73, Guy.

73, Guy K2AV

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 8:51 PM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have not seen the issue hear and I'm running the latest released
> firmware (and I suspect your was factory loaded with the latest)
> Could be a mechanical issue; Something like the wrong length screw causing
> something to short out?
>
> I would suspect a possible assembly error, but it could be a real issue
> with the radio.Personally I'd call support and work with them to resolve
> this issue.
>
> I'm a bit critical of Elecraft; because being the son of a German Engineer
> and in a technical field I tend to look at things in a very critical
> light).But even as critical as I am of Elecraft they do make a sound
> product and they do listen to their customer base.
>
> I would say they do tend to spend a good amount of debugging time.
>
>
> PS: Being the son of a German Engineer, and being in technical fields my
> whole career I'm very critical of Elecraft.That being said they so make a
> sound product, plus they do listen to their customers.
>
>
>
> On 1/15/15 3:05 PM, dave wrote:
> >
> > Recently purchased a K3 kit. Have noted a couple
> > of bugs. Wonder if anyone else has seen these:
> >
> > 1) After I put the kit together, while doing the
> > testing, I noted that if I cycled through the
> > modes via the left side of the mode button (mode
> > dn), every time it went into AM mode it keyed
> > the TX for a second or maybe two. Did not do
> > this when pressing the right side of the mode
> > button (mode up) and going into AM. This was not
> > simply lighting the TX light. The external power
> > meter confirmed that RF was being generated. All
> > other changes of mode appeared to be fine.
> >
> > 2) Just now turned the K3 on. Switched to 80m.
> > Mode was CW before and after the change of
> > bands. After a few seconds I noted there was no
> > audio coming from the speaker. Switched to 60m
> > (USB), audio. Switched to 40m (CW), audio.
> > Switched back to 80, no audio. Cycled through
> > the modes. Audio was heard on LSB, AM, Data, and
> > suddenly audio was heard on 80m CW. And . . .
> > while cycling through the modes I noted that the
> > TX was no longer keyed when switching to AM via
> > the mode dn button.
> >
> > Are these bugs related? Has anyone else seen
> > either of these?
> >
> > I'd really like to see Elecraft spend the
> > necessary effort to thoroughly debug the K3
> > before spending much effort adding features that
> > only a handful of ops will ever use.
> >
> >
> > 73 de dave
> > ab9ca/4
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3 bugs

After 40 years as a programmer in just about every imaginable platform
and environment, I would agree.
This statement is absolutely true. To those who have never attempted
programming, its hard to fully imagine just how complicated software
really is.

Software written by the world's greatest programmer and tested by the
world's greatest software tester would still be something I would never
risk my life with.

73, Doug -- K0DXV

On 1/16/2015 2:55 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> I find it simply amazing that some folks could think Elecraft in some buggy
> error-prone category. A K3 is a software defined radio with a degree of
> necessary hardware adjunct. To anyone who insists that software should not
> be shipped until all bugs are removed, my answer is "GET REAL".
>
>
> <<< ALL software is buggy. >>>
>
>
> ALL of it. For ANY purpose. On ANY platform. In ANY software language. From
> ANY developer. From ANY country. ANY length of time in the field. No
> exceptions, ever.
>
> Every piece of software, past, present or future, DIES in obsolescence,
> with bugs still in it. No exceptions, ever.
>
> No paid developer can fix, nor paid tester find all bugs. Cannot possibly
> be done.
>
> Nobody can imagine, and post up in a testing plan, the entirety of customer
> reality. None of us have brains that can hold anything but a tiny fraction
> of the entirety of customer reality.
>
> Software that has not been debugged by CUSTOMERS in REAL situations cannot
> be trusted in real situations.
>
> You will never eat any food without a germ on it. That's why you, the
> customer, has an immune system.
>
>
> <<< The only thing that counts is whether the company is RESPONSIVE, and
> has a HISTORY of improvements in their software. >>>
>
>
> You go check all those other ham radio companies and find out who is
> responsive and has a history of improvements.
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> 73, Guy K2AV
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 8:51 PM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I have not seen the issue hear and I'm running the latest released
>> firmware (and I suspect your was factory loaded with the latest)
>> Could be a mechanical issue; Something like the wrong length screw causing
>> something to short out?
>>
>> I would suspect a possible assembly error, but it could be a real issue
>> with the radio.Personally I'd call support and work with them to resolve
>> this issue.
>>
>> I'm a bit critical of Elecraft; because being the son of a German Engineer
>> and in a technical field I tend to look at things in a very critical
>> light).But even as critical as I am of Elecraft they do make a sound
>> product and they do listen to their customer base.
>>
>> I would say they do tend to spend a good amount of debugging time.
>>
>>
>> PS: Being the son of a German Engineer, and being in technical fields my
>> whole career I'm very critical of Elecraft.That being said they so make a
>> sound product, plus they do listen to their customers.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/15/15 3:05 PM, dave wrote:
>>> Recently purchased a K3 kit. Have noted a couple
>>> of bugs. Wonder if anyone else has seen these:
>>>
>>> 1) After I put the kit together, while doing the
>>> testing, I noted that if I cycled through the
>>> modes via the left side of the mode button (mode
>>> dn), every time it went into AM mode it keyed
>>> the TX for a second or maybe two. Did not do
>>> this when pressing the right side of the mode
>>> button (mode up) and going into AM. This was not
>>> simply lighting the TX light. The external power
>>> meter confirmed that RF was being generated. All
>>> other changes of mode appeared to be fine.
>>>
>>> 2) Just now turned the K3 on. Switched to 80m.
>>> Mode was CW before and after the change of
>>> bands. After a few seconds I noted there was no
>>> audio coming from the speaker. Switched to 60m
>>> (USB), audio. Switched to 40m (CW), audio.
>>> Switched back to 80, no audio. Cycled through
>>> the modes. Audio was heard on LSB, AM, Data, and
>>> suddenly audio was heard on 80m CW. And . . .
>>> while cycling through the modes I noted that the
>>> TX was no longer keyed when switching to AM via
>>> the mode dn button.
>>>
>>> Are these bugs related? Has anyone else seen
>>> either of these?
>>>
>>> I'd really like to see Elecraft spend the
>>> necessary effort to thoroughly debug the K3
>>> before spending much effort adding features that
>>> only a handful of ops will ever use.
>>>
>>>
>>> 73 de dave
>>> ab9ca/4
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Alan Bloom

Re: K3 bugs

On 01/16/2015 06:40 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:
>
> Software written by the world's greatest programmer and tested by the
> world's greatest software tester would still be something I would
> never risk my life with.

Self-driving cars are supposed to be the wave of the future. Google
already has prototypes on the road. The software must be insanely
complicated. There's no way it won't have bugs.

On the other hand, human drivers are hardly perfect either. Perhaps the
buggy software will be more reliable than an inattentive driver...

Alan N1AL

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

k6dgw

Re: K3 bugs

signed int returnone(void)
{
return 1;
}

No bugs, works every time, guaranteed. Sadly, it's useless. Anything
more complex will have problems sooner or later. If it involves
real-time communications, it will be a whole lot sooner than you wanted
and usually at the most inopportune moment.

The issue however was a new K3 owner, trying out his radio, encountered
some behavior [which it seems went away] that he didn't understand. His
conclusion was, "Elecraft delivers software with bugs." A rather stark
conclusion from one attempt to power up a radio.

I used to do a lot of things, one was software, worked on Apollo.
"Compiler liked it ... it must be OK.":-))

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

On 1/16/2015 7:14 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

> I also write software, which has bugs.
>
> wunder K6WRU CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: K3 bugs

In reply to this post by Alan Bloom

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 9:54 PM, Alan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On the other hand, human drivers are hardly perfect either. Perhaps the
> buggy software will be more reliable than an inattentive driver...

Maybe it will... The conversation gets intelligent when the principal
concepts are seen for what they really are, doesn't it.

The trick will be to beta test (on the real road) and fix, beta test and
fix, beta test and fix. But they won't get me in one unless I'm sitting in
the driver's seat with instant override. I haven't gotten to letting the
Ford parallel park itself. Just can't go there. 40+ years in software
development has left me with scars.

The thing with Elecraft is that the management decided to harvest customer
experience. As a result we have years of customer-driven fixes and
improvements, some of it not found anywhere else. SAS Institute used that
philosophy to drive a 1970's statistical system into the largest privately
owned software company in the world, a 4 billion a year world-wide business
based on uber-statistics, that is the BMW, Mercedes and Cadillac of its
niche. Customers told SAS what the next thing needed to be, and SAS
listened to them. Elecraft is in some pretty heady company by my reckoning.

73, Guy.
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Edward R Cole

Re: K3 bugs

In reply to this post by Dave-7

Well this is now OT, but

Consider that most commercial aircraft run auto-pilot for most of
their flight and most ships also use auto-pilot. It does seem scary
to think of an automobile on automatic control but it will probably
end up safer in the long-run. I suspect the diamond lanes to be
where its initially tried and on divided hwy's probably it will be
lane specific so manual merging on/off can be handled. I think it
interesting (amusing) to see all the new driving condition selections
for traction on newer cars. But I suspect it like the auto-parking
features are predecessors to auto-drive. "snooze-cruise" - yeah!

Re: bug proof, I once read that cpu's are now so complicated that
they are not fully tested as there are too many states to run
thru. ATE does most QA testing on production lines these days and
they test the essential functions. Computing is on the verge of
Artificial Intelligence so when it seems your computer had taken on a
personality - maybe it has?

K3 to Dave: "Dave your messing with my bw"! "Stop Dave or I will
throw you out the airlock"! apologizes to Sir Arthur and 2001 Space Odyssey.

73, Ed - KL7UW
"engage warp drive - now!"

-----------
From: Alan <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 bugs
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

On 01/16/2015 06:40 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:
> Software written by the world's greatest programmer and tested by the
> world's greatest software tester would still be something I would
> never risk my life with.

Self-driving cars are supposed to be the wave of the future. Google
already has prototypes on the road. The software must be insanely
complicated. There's no way it won't have bugs.

On the other hand, human drivers are hardly perfect either. Perhaps the
buggy software will be more reliable than an inattentive driver...

Alan N1AL

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Dave-7

Re: K3 bugs

In reply to this post by Guy Olinger K2AV

Since I'm the one who began this thread, I'll update with the info
received from Elecraft. Someone might look it up and want to know . . .

They say that, yes, when going into AM mode via the MODE button, with
VOX ON, the K3 "will sometimes go into TX momentarily". So this is a
known bug. And, since it is "sometimes", that would account for why it
comes and goes on the K3 here.

If I get any additional info I will pass it along.

Note that the quote above is an actual quote, not something I made up
and attributed to Elecraft. Have to put this disclaimer in here since
one responder made up a quote and attributed it to me . . .

73 de dave
ab9ca/4

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 bugs

Dave,

I am just wondering if Elecraft support actually indicated that this
condition is a "known bug".

I suspect that with VOX on, the "TX momentarily" would more likely be
caused by some sort of noise in the shack.
If you have the VOX set sensitive enough, then even tapping on the
operating desk or moving the microphone (or even chair 'squeaks) can
cause it to go into transmit easily.
If the ANTIVOX setting is too low, that may trip the K3 into transmit
with sound from the speaker (or leakage from the headphones.
You may want to check your MENU: VOX GN and MENU:ANTIVOX settings to be
certain they are not the problem.
Those settings are dependent on the sensitivity of the microphone,
proximity of the mic to the speakers, and other factors dependent on
your shack and the ambient noise conditions in the shack, so settings
that are good for one situation will likely not work well in your
situation. The K3 manual text gives some hints for achieving the proper
settings for your shack.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/17/2015 3:09 PM, dave wrote:
>
> Since I'm the one who began this thread, I'll update with the info
> received from Elecraft. Someone might look it up and want to know . . .
>
> They say that, yes, when going into AM mode via the MODE button, with
> VOX ON, the K3 "will sometimes go into TX momentarily". So this is a
> known bug. And, since it is "sometimes", that would account for why it
> comes and goes on the K3 here.
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Dave-7

Re: K3 bugs

Don,

There is no mic attached to the K3 here. This info was included in
info sent to K3support.

But, even if random noise was the case, why would it occur only when
going into AM and not SSB or data?

I think known bug.

73 de dave
ab9ca/4

On 1/17/15 2:25 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Dave,
>
> I am just wondering if Elecraft support actually indicated that this
> condition is a "known bug".
>
> I suspect that with VOX on, the "TX momentarily" would more likely be
> caused by some sort of noise in the shack.
> If you have the VOX set sensitive enough, then even tapping on the
> operating desk or moving the microphone (or even chair 'squeaks) can
> cause it to go into transmit easily.
> If the ANTIVOX setting is too low, that may trip the K3 into transmit
> with sound from the speaker (or leakage from the headphones.
> You may want to check your MENU: VOX GN and MENU:ANTIVOX settings to
> be certain they are not the problem.
> Those settings are dependent on the sensitivity of the microphone,
> proximity of the mic to the speakers, and other factors dependent on
> your shack and the ambient noise conditions in the shack, so settings
> that are good for one situation will likely not work well in your
> situation. The K3 manual text gives some hints for achieving the
> proper settings for your shack.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 1/17/2015 3:09 PM, dave wrote:
>>
>> Since I'm the one who began this thread, I'll update with the info
>> received from Elecraft. Someone might look it up and want to know . . .
>>
>> They say that, yes, when going into AM mode via the MODE button,
>> with VOX ON, the K3 "will sometimes go into TX momentarily". So this
>> is a known bug. And, since it is "sometimes", that would account for
>> why it comes and goes on the K3 here.
>>
>
>