K3 - what power supply are you using?

[Bill Clarke]

I am about to replace my 35 year old Astron 35 amp supply. The choices
are switchers or analog and 20 or 35 amp. The supply will ONLY be used
for the K3. Everything else in the shack is on a different supply.
Questions:

Are the 20 amp supplies enough power for the K3?
Are switchers any good or is their track record poor for life and noise?
Should I consider anything other than Astron?

Thanks,

Bill W2BLC

--
IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician)
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[Mike K2MK]

Hi Bill,

Deja Vu all over again.
http://www.mail-archive.com/[e-mail]/msg137871.html

The majority opinion in June was to go for another 35 amp Astron. That's what I use.

73,
Mike K2MK

Bill wrote

I am about to replace my 35 year old Astron 35 amp supply. The choices
are switchers or analog and 20 or 35 amp. The supply will ONLY be used
for the K3. Everything else in the shack is on a different supply.
Questions:

Are the 20 amp supplies enough power for the K3?
Are switchers any good or is their track record poor for life and noise?
Should I consider anything other than Astron?

Thanks,

Bill W2BLC

[N0AZZ]

Bill

I would say it's hard to beat success like you have had with the Astron
RS/VS-35M. I have 99% of my station running on 2 Astron supplies a VS-70M
and a RS-70M then I have several pieces of microHAM equipment that need a
separate supply other than the one's the radio's connected to. For those I
use an Samlex SEC 1235M switching supply that I have had for some time they
are rated by QST as a best buy and no hash at all.

I hope my Astron's last as long as yours, if so my wife will be selling them
after I'm gone.

73,
Fred/N0AZZ



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 6:10 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - what power supply are you using?

I am about to replace my 35 year old Astron 35 amp supply. The choices are
switchers or analog and 20 or 35 amp. The supply will ONLY be used for the
K3. Everything else in the shack is on a different supply.
Questions:

Are the 20 amp supplies enough power for the K3?
Are switchers any good or is their track record poor for life and noise?
Should I consider anything other than Astron?

Thanks,

Bill W2BLC

--
IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician)
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[Jim Wiley]

Yes.

You should also consider a 35 to 55 AH (or thereabouts) Gel-Cell battery
and a 3 to 4 amp automatic charger.  Advantages:  (1) Instant emergency
power good for several hours, (2) protection against line spikes
(surges)  and dips (brown-outs),  (3) the small charger will make up the
"daytime" discharge overnight without needing a much larger main power
supply, (5) generally, while system ends to be rather less expensive
overall, and  (6) the battery acts like a huge ultra-capacitor that
absorbs "junk" on the circuit powering the radio which helps with hum
issues and such

I ran my entire station from such a system for years. The station
consisted of  a 100-watt HF rig, a 50-watt 2-meter set,  35 watt UHF
set, a Heath WWV receiver/station clock, audio processor, and several  
accessories, all from a 10-ampere automatic charger and a single Costco
deep-cycle Marine battery.

Any time I wanted to add something, I just hung it across the battery (I
actually used a home-built a DC distribution panel) without worrying
about needing to add yet another 12-volt power supply of some type.
Also, didn't have to buy them - a savings that adds up to quite a bit
after several rigs are added to the station.


- Jim, KL7CC



On 10/11/2012 3:09 AM, Bill wrote:
> <snip>
> Should I consider anything other than Astron?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill W2BLC
>

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[Bill Clarke]

I have a very large deep discharge battery and the West Mountain
distribution and charging stuff. This is why I am actually considering a
20 amp supply. The battery picks up the slack - and when the power goes
out (which it does all too often here) you keep right on talking. I
question the continuing need for a 35 amp supply with this system.

--
IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician)
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[Giampiero Raschetti]

I Bill,
I'using a single 28A Difona (
http://www.difona.de/f_k_s.php?&language=en&ID=8a&geraet=netzteil)
switching power supply for all my rigs and they all work very well. I have
no doubt for a switching amp.

73
Giampiero / IW2ESL


On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 1:09 PM, Bill <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am about to replace my 35 year old Astron 35 amp supply. The choices
> are switchers or analog and 20 or 35 amp. The supply will ONLY be used
> for the K3. Everything else in the shack is on a different supply.
> Questions:
>
> Are the 20 amp supplies enough power for the K3?
> Are switchers any good or is their track record poor for life and noise?
> Should I consider anything other than Astron?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill W2BLC
>
> --
> IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician)
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--
Giampiero Raschetti
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[N0AZZ]

Yes this will work but I would never use anything that small battery wise. I
do have batteries also and they are hooked to a Low Loss PWRgate sold by
http://ki0bk.no-ip.com/~PWRgate/LLPG      for $50 it keeps the batteries
charged for your power supply and with a power loss or power surge switches
it the batteries so fast you never know when it happens. I have 5 radios and
Astron PS it keeps my 4 190 AH gel cell batteries topped off all the time
unless I have to run on them for over a week or better. When finished after
a long outage I do charge them with a regular charger to a full charge it
would take too long to bring them back up with the PWRgate.

I have found the vast majority of the automatic chargers create hash and
unwanted noise in the radios. I notice it the most on my K2 and my FTDX-5000
on the high bands where it has better receive than my K3 on those bands.

73,
Fred/N0AZZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Wiley
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 6:43 AM
To: Bill
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - what power supply are you using?

Yes.

You should also consider a 35 to 55 AH (or thereabouts) Gel-Cell battery and
a 3 to 4 amp automatic charger.  Advantages:  (1) Instant emergency power
good for several hours, (2) protection against line spikes
(surges)  and dips (brown-outs),  (3) the small charger will make up the
"daytime" discharge overnight without needing a much larger main power
supply, (5) generally, while system ends to be rather less expensive
overall, and  (6) the battery acts like a huge ultra-capacitor that absorbs
"junk" on the circuit powering the radio which helps with hum issues and
such

I ran my entire station from such a system for years. The station consisted
of  a 100-watt HF rig, a 50-watt 2-meter set,  35 watt UHF set, a Heath WWV
receiver/station clock, audio processor, and several accessories, all from a
10-ampere automatic charger and a single Costco deep-cycle Marine battery.

Any time I wanted to add something, I just hung it across the battery (I
actually used a home-built a DC distribution panel) without worrying about
needing to add yet another 12-volt power supply of some type.
Also, didn't have to buy them - a savings that adds up to quite a bit after
several rigs are added to the station.


- Jim, KL7CC



On 10/11/2012 3:09 AM, Bill wrote:
> <snip>
> Should I consider anything other than Astron?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill W2BLC
>

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[Mike Reublin]

Bill,

If the Astron is toast, it's a pretty simple circuit to repair (if parts
can be found). I'd either fix it or replace it with one from the same
litter.

73, Mike

On 10/11/12 7:09 AM, Bill wrote:

> I am about to replace my 35 year old Astron 35 amp supply. The choices
> are switchers or analog and 20 or 35 amp. The supply will ONLY be used
> for the K3. Everything else in the shack is on a different supply.
> Questions:
>
> Are the 20 amp supplies enough power for the K3?
> Are switchers any good or is their track record poor for life and noise?
> Should I consider anything other than Astron?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill W2BLC
>

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[John Oppenheimer]

Hi Bill,

Last year I replaced a decade old Astron SS-20 (field day 2011 death)
with a new SS-25. I prefer a quiet room and use the rig speaker. The new
SS-25 fan is too noisy, even hidden under the desk, for me. Much louder
then the K3/100 fan.

My plan is to try a Samlex 1223 or 1235 next. Reports are that the
Samlex products have a quieter fan.

Actually, I have been putting up with the noise too long already, I'm
going to order a new PS today! Though having a new KX3, the K3 has not
had much use the last month.

John KN5L
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[Joe Subich, W4TV-4]

This has been covered several times ...

 > Are the 20 amp supplies enough power for the K3?

They are marginal - I have seen 22A or slightly more with some
loads on some bands.  Given that the current metering is somewhat
an average, the instantaneous peaks will be higher.  25A is a
realistic minimum and I'm more comfortable with 30A.

 > Are switchers any good or is their track record poor for life
 > and noise?

I'm not a fan of switchers for both electrical and acoustic noise.
Switchers also seem to be less tolerant of peak current demands.

 > Should I consider anything other than Astron?

Not in my opinion.  I have two RS35A - one for each K3 - set to 15V to
improve IMD at full power levels.

If you use a battery supply, limit maximum power to 75 watts as the
voltage drop at peak current - particularly when the batteries are not
full charged - will increase IMD significantly.  IMD is marginal at
13.8V and increases significantly at lower (11.5-13V) levels.

In addition, a single battery supply for all equipment significantly
increases the potential for problems.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 10/11/2012 7:09 AM, Bill wrote:

> I am about to replace my 35 year old Astron 35 amp supply. The choices
> are switchers or analog and 20 or 35 amp. The supply will ONLY be used
> for the K3. Everything else in the shack is on a different supply.
> Questions:
>
> Are the 20 amp supplies enough power for the K3?
> Are switchers any good or is their track record poor for life and noise?
> Should I consider anything other than Astron?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill W2BLC
>

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[K2GN]

Using 3 SS-25M.  One for each K3 and one for accessories.
The oldest doesn't have meter lights. The 2 newer ones do.
They run the rigs just fine.  I do not have any fan noise.

Larry/K2GN - http://k2gn.com

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[Jim Rhodes-2]

Well in the shack I use a HB linear supply using biggest parts I could
scrounge. Just to see what it could do I went keydown on 3 100 watt rigs
and it sagged 1/2 volt. If I am portable I use either a Powerwerx 30 amp
switcher or an MFJ 25 amp switcher. Rigs can't tell the difference. In the
shack I prefer to run everything off of 1 supply so everything has same
ground and V+ levels.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 6:09 AM, Bill <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am about to replace my 35 year old Astron 35 amp supply. The choices
> are switchers or analog and 20 or 35 amp. The supply will ONLY be used
> for the K3. Everything else in the shack is on a different supply.
> Questions:
>
> Are the 20 amp supplies enough power for the K3?
> Are switchers any good or is their track record poor for life and noise?
> Should I consider anything other than Astron?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill W2BLC
>
> --
> IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician)
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--
Jim K0XU
[hidden email]
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[Mike Sanders]

I have been using a commercial switching power supply
for many years. It is a Power Source bolted to the back
of my desk. 45 amp is what it says. Been on 24/7 365
for over 12 years. In this location. It was used for years
before this set up. Thought I had a problem with it some
months back but found out it was fine. The multi Anderson
power pole outlet strip was poorly constructed and causing
a serious voltage drop to the gear. I cleaned up lots of
solder slag, bad joints and mechanical connections and
the strip is back in service with the old supply.
I had hundreds of these supplies in commercial service
many years ago and rarely had a failure.
I am using it to run an Icom 756PROIII, K3/P3SVGA, K2/10
K2/100, 2 Elecraft transverters and a KAT100 tuner. The
K3 and K2s are pretty well loaded. Several accessories
hang off this supply set up.
I never hear it and have never noticed noise from it. It
got a break of about 6 months several years ago when I
ran the station off 4 batteries and some Harbour Freight
solar panel sets. It worked but my operating is enough
that I needed to supplement the solar with some wind
and increase the solar capability. Hoping that this will
be in place next Spring. In the interim the old trusty 45A
Power Source just keeps on working.
Years ago there were some problems with the Astron analog
supplies on certain ham bands. 40 meters if I remember. RF
would shut the supply down. There was voltage but no current
capability. A turn off and turn on would fix it till the next time.
Also, I agree about the fans in the SS25/30M switchers. Never
noticed any RF hash but the fan noise was an issue.
73, Mike K0AZ

 
 
                    Mike Sanders
                        KOAZ
       
 
 


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[Jim Brown-10]

On 10/11/2012 5:01 AM, Bill wrote:
> I have a very large deep discharge battery and the West Mountain
> distribution and charging stuff.

Since 2004, I've been using the biggest deep discharge that Costco
sells, float-charged by a 10A switcher that I paid $10 for at a hamfest.
It was VERY noisy until I did suppression on it with toroids and
capacitors.  Batteries typically last four years and provide great
backup power.  I have two K3s in an SO2R setup, two batteries, two
chargers, all wired in parallel.

As to Joe's comments re: IMD -- short fat copper from battery to K3
helps minimize the drop. I do NOT use any charge regulator circuit, but
have the regulator in the 10A supply set for 13.8V, which has proved
very good for battery longevity.  The result is about 12.3VDC keydown
with 100W.  I'm usually driving an amp, so my K3s are running between 30
and 45W, resulting in 12.6V keydown.  I've looked at IMD with a spectrum
analyzer (I own the same one that Elecraft uses), and it's been quite
good, but I haven't studied the effect of power supply voltage.

Several years ago I bought a PowerWorks 20A switcher to take on a DX
trip, and checked it out for RF noise.  I didn't hear any, but it mostly
sits in my storage area. We used it in the same battery charging circuit
for a California QSO Party county expedition last week and it worked
well with no noise.

73, Jim K9YC
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[n7ws]

HB "Smart Charger" consisting of: 35A Astron used for the raw DC & pass transitors, A&A Engineering smart charger card suitably modified, 95AH AGM battery, TGE boost regulator.

--- On Thu, 10/11/12, Bill <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Bill <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - what power supply are you using?
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thursday, October 11, 2012, 5:09 AM

I am about to replace my 35 year old Astron 35 amp supply. The choices
are switchers or analog and 20 or 35 amp. The supply will ONLY be used
for the K3. Everything else in the shack is on a different supply.
Questions:

Are the 20 amp supplies enough power for the K3?
Are switchers any good or is their track record poor for life and noise?
Should I consider anything other than Astron?

Thanks,

Bill W2BLC

--
IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician)
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[Lu Romero - W4LT]

I have used three:

My original '80's vintage Astron RS20.  It didnt have enough
current and the K3 would trip off in RTTY.  

I use a Jetstream 28 amp switching power supply (I have
three of these).  These I use when I ake the rig out of the
shack portable.  I have never had an issue with these, I
dont notice any birdies and they have never tripped off on
RTTY.  I have used them in the USA and also on a ship in
Singapore harbor on both 110v and 220v and no issues
whatsoever.  And its easy to carry and deal with. Quite
inexpensive.

But my main dedicated K3 power supply is a mid 90's vintage
Astrom RM35 like the one you are replacing.  This one is
hockey puck/paper clip reliable and I appreciate the
metering.  But its heavy and it stays home; However, if I
take the rig somewhere, the Jetstreams are the ones that
travel well.

Lu - W4LT
K3/P3/K1

Message: 36
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 07:09:37 -0400
From: Bill <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - what power supply are you using?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I am about to replace my 35 year old Astron 35 amp supply.
The choices
are switchers or analog and 20 or 35 amp. The supply will
ONLY be used
for the K3. Everything else in the shack is on a different
supply.
Questions:

Are the 20 amp supplies enough power for the K3?
Are switchers any good or is their track record poor for
life and noise?
Should I consider anything other than Astron?

Thanks,

Bill W2BLC

--

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