Elecraft

K3S Chirp?

Classic

List

Threaded

16 messages Options

Doug Smith [W7KF]

K3S Chirp?

I was in the CW SS in November using my then new K3S with an ACOM 1500. All of which was *great*.

But, then, I received an Official Observer Advisory Notice that I was “emitting a CW signal with a chirp”. The report detailed a QSO that is, indeed, in my SS log. I was running on 20 meters at the time.

FYI, the ACOM is on it’s own 240 VAC circuit and the K3S is on it’s own 120 VAC circuit. The rest of the shack is on a separate 120 VAC circuit.

Since receiving the report I’ve listened to my signal on two different receivers and I do not hear a chirp. Is there any possible way I could have somehow misadjusted the K3S during the contest that would result in a chirp?

73,
Doug, W7KF
http://www.w7kf.com <http://www.w7kf.com/>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: K3S Chirp?

On Thu,12/29/2016 12:27 PM, Doug Smith wrote:
> But, then, I received an Official Observer Advisory Notice that I was “emitting a CW signal with a chirp”.

Doug,

Some ideas. It's possible that "the signal with a chirp" was a spurious
one caused by instability (oscillation) in your amplifier. By "spurious"
I mean not your main signal, but another signal off frequency from it. I
would look into how you're setting amplifier power (you should be doing
it by setting the K3S to produce just enough output to get the amplifier
power that you want), you should NOT be using ALC between the amp and
the K3S, and you should be carefully tuning the amp every time you QSY.

That "signal with a chirp" could also be the result of RF feedback. That
could be caused by a bad connection of a coax shield, or by a bad piece
of coax, or even by an antenna that is too close to your shack. Or by
equipment that is not properly bonded together. EVERY piece of gear in
your station should have short, fat, copper conductors bonding its
chassis to every other chassis.

73, Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Buck

Re: K3S Chirp?

In reply to this post by Doug Smith [W7KF]

I thought chirp was a voltage issue. Any chance your power cable is
inadequate, too long or the PowerPoles are not right? Check the voltage
on the K3 display when you key down.

Buck, k4ia
Honor Roll
8BDXCC

On 12/29/2016 3:27 PM, Doug Smith wrote:

> I was in the CW SS in November using my then new K3S with an ACOM 1500. All of which was *great*.
>
> But, then, I received an Official Observer Advisory Notice that I was “emitting a CW signal with a chirp”. The report detailed a QSO that is, indeed, in my SS log. I was running on 20 meters at the time.
>
> FYI, the ACOM is on it’s own 240 VAC circuit and the K3S is on it’s own 120 VAC circuit. The rest of the shack is on a separate 120 VAC circuit.
>
> Since receiving the report I’ve listened to my signal on two different receivers and I do not hear a chirp. Is there any possible way I could have somehow misadjusted the K3S during the contest that would result in a chirp?
>
> 73,
> Doug, W7KF
> http://www.w7kf.com <http://www.w7kf.com/>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Sheldon

Re: K3S Chirp?

In reply to this post by Doug Smith [W7KF]

I've actually heard a K3 (not a K3S) with a very slight chirp when using an Ameritron AL-811 amp and even a little more chirp when using an Alpha (not sure the model) caused by RF feedback somewhere in the system. Before he got rid of his KPA500 this never happened. Funny, but he's only running around 500 watts out with the Ameritron. I suspect it is caused by an almost resonant piece of coax between the K3 and the amp as it only seems to happen on 40 meters.

W0EB

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 29, 2016, at 3:53 PM, Buck <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I thought chirp was a voltage issue. Any chance your power cable is inadequate, too long or the PowerPoles are not right? Check the voltage on the K3 display when you key down.
>
> Buck, k4ia
> Honor Roll
> 8BDXCC
>
>> On 12/29/2016 3:27 PM, Doug Smith wrote:
>> I was in the CW SS in November using my then new K3S with an ACOM 1500. All of which was *great*.
>>
>> But, then, I received an Official Observer Advisory Notice that I was “emitting a CW signal with a chirp”. The report detailed a QSO that is, indeed, in my SS log. I was running on 20 meters at the time.
>>
>> FYI, the ACOM is on it’s own 240 VAC circuit and the K3S is on it’s own 120 VAC circuit. The rest of the shack is on a separate 120 VAC circuit.
>>
>> Since receiving the report I’ve listened to my signal on two different receivers and I do not hear a chirp. Is there any possible way I could have somehow misadjusted the K3S during the contest that would result in a chirp?
>>
>> 73,
>> Doug, W7KF
>> http://www.w7kf.com <http://www.w7kf.com/>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Clay Autery

Re: K3S Chirp?

In reply to this post by Doug Smith [W7KF]

Why would not an OO try to notify the operator on the air.... especially
if there is some need for verification. I would think that most
operators would like to know and appreciate the help diagnosing any
issues...

Is there some rule in the OO program that requires it to be a sneak report?

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 12/29/2016 4:21 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> No. I, too, have gotten chirp reports on different rigs over the years and wrote it off to a mistake by the OO or just over-zealousness. I challenged one report and his response was "I was almost sure I could hear a slight chirp."
>
> I’m learning to ignore OO reports.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Richard Fjeld-2

Re: K3S Chirp?

In reply to this post by Buck

I once had a key that was prone to cause chirp.

Dick, n0ce

> On 12/29/2016 3:27 PM, Doug Smith wrote:
>> I was in the CW SS in November using my then new K3S with an ACOM
>> 1500. All of which was *great*.
>>
>> But, then, I received an Official Observer Advisory Notice that I was
>> “emitting a CW signal with a chirp”. The report detailed a QSO that
>> is, indeed, in my SS log. I was running on 20 meters at the time.
>>
>> FYI, the ACOM is on it’s own 240 VAC circuit and the K3S is on it’s
>> own 120 VAC circuit. The rest of the shack is on a separate 120 VAC
>> circuit.
>>
>> Since receiving the report I’ve listened to my signal on two
>> different receivers and I do not hear a chirp. Is there any possible
>> way I could have somehow misadjusted the K3S during the contest that
>> would result in a chirp?
>>
>> 73,
>> Doug, W7KF
>> http://www.w7kf.com <http://www.w7kf.com/>
>>

K9MA

Re: K3S Chirp?

In reply to this post by Clay Autery

The quality of OO's varies. I once got an OO report for out of band
operation when I was on something like 14,000.4 with a well-calibrated
K3. When I contacted the OO and asked how he measured the frequency, he
said he just tuned his receiver to 13,999.9, and he could hear me.

73,

Scott K9MA

On 12/29/2016 17:34, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Long ago it was common to expect honest reports from any QSO. Perhaps too many Hams today, including OOs, are afraid of offending someone.
>
> I would recommend anyone check out any OO report to see if it was legit, but after my experience with the "chirp" report I'll be skeptical until I hear the issue for myself.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Clay Autery
> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 2:29 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Chirp?
>
> Why would not an OO try to notify the operator on the air.... especially if there is some need for verification. I would think that most operators would like to know and appreciate the help diagnosing any issues...
>
> Is there some rule in the OO program that requires it to be a sneak report?
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
>
>

--
Scott K9MA

[hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Nr4c

Re: K3S Chirp?

In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld-2

How?

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Dec 29, 2016, at 6:06 PM, Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I once had a key that was prone to cause chirp.
>
> Dick, n0ce
>
>
>>> On 12/29/2016 3:27 PM, Doug Smith wrote:
>>> I was in the CW SS in November using my then new K3S with an ACOM
>>> 1500. All of which was *great*.
>>>
>>> But, then, I received an Official Observer Advisory Notice that I was
>>> “emitting a CW signal with a chirp”. The report detailed a QSO that
>>> is, indeed, in my SS log. I was running on 20 meters at the time.
>>>
>>> FYI, the ACOM is on it’s own 240 VAC circuit and the K3S is on it’s
>>> own 120 VAC circuit. The rest of the shack is on a separate 120 VAC
>>> circuit.
>>>
>>> Since receiving the report I’ve listened to my signal on two
>>> different receivers and I do not hear a chirp. Is there any possible
>>> way I could have somehow misadjusted the K3S during the contest that
>>> would result in a chirp?
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Doug, W7KF
>>> http://www.w7kf.com <http://www.w7kf.com/>
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Cady, Fred-2

Re: K3S Chirp?

In reply to this post by Doug Smith [W7KF]

I recently received an OO report thanking me for patiently explaining the SS report format to a station so they would know how to make contacts.

Cheers,

Fred KE7X

________________________________
From: Elecraft <[hidden email]> on behalf of Doug Smith <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 1:27 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3S Chirp?

I was in the CW SS in November using my then new K3S with an ACOM 1500. All of which was *great*.

But, then, I received an Official Observer Advisory Notice that I was "emitting a CW signal with a chirp". The report detailed a QSO that is, indeed, in my SS log. I was running on 20 meters at the time.

FYI, the ACOM is on it's own 240 VAC circuit and the K3S is on it's own 120 VAC circuit. The rest of the shack is on a separate 120 VAC circuit.

Since receiving the report I've listened to my signal on two different receivers and I do not hear a chirp. Is there any possible way I could have somehow misadjusted the K3S during the contest that would result in a chirp?

73,
Doug, W7KF
http://www.w7kf.com <http://www.w7kf.com/>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Clay Autery

Re: K3S Chirp?

In reply to this post by Clay Autery

Thank you!

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 12/29/2016 4:42 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

> Official Observers are observers, not police. The ARRL asks them to send out advisories to help operators be self-policing. They might transmit a polite reminder to ID on a repeater, but they really are not cops.
>
> We have had problems with unlicensed use of 2m by hang gliders on Mission Peak. They can be heard all over the south bay. The OO gets to make detailed notes and report to the FCC. They probably should not break into the (unlicensed) safety comms of the hang gliders to tell them to get off the air.
>
> "The OO performs his/her function by observing rather than transmitting. They keep watch for such things as frequency instability, harmonics, hum, key clicks, broad signals, distorted audio, over deviation, out-of-band operation and other potential problems. The OO completes his/her task once the notification card is sent.”
>
> http://www.arrl.org/official-observer-1 <http://www.arrl.org/official-observer-1>
>
> I could see a more active role for the OO. The FCC might encourage that with the cutbacks in the field offices.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>

Michael Walker

Re: K3S Chirp?

In today's day, a recording should be mandatory. If they are going to be experts in their field, this should be a no-brainer to achieve.

Other than that, it is hearsay.

Mike va3mw

> On Dec 29, 2016, at 8:27 PM, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thank you!
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
>
>> On 12/29/2016 4:42 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>> Official Observers are observers, not police. The ARRL asks them to send out advisories to help operators be self-policing. They might transmit a polite reminder to ID on a repeater, but they really are not cops.
>>
>> We have had problems with unlicensed use of 2m by hang gliders on Mission Peak. They can be heard all over the south bay. The OO gets to make detailed notes and report to the FCC. They probably should not break into the (unlicensed) safety comms of the hang gliders to tell them to get off the air.
>>
>> "The OO performs his/her function by observing rather than transmitting. They keep watch for such things as frequency instability, harmonics, hum, key clicks, broad signals, distorted audio, over deviation, out-of-band operation and other potential problems. The OO completes his/her task once the notification card is sent.”
>>
>> http://www.arrl.org/official-observer-1 <http://www.arrl.org/official-observer-1>
>>
>> I could see a more active role for the OO. The FCC might encourage that with the cutbacks in the field offices.
>>
>> wunder
>> K6WRU
>> Walter Underwood
>> CM87wj
>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Clay Autery

Re: K3S Chirp?

I agree.... a recording supplied to the originating control operator.
NOT necessarily as "evidence" of doing something wrong, but as a
diagnostic tool to assist in correcting the issue... which for the
majority of cases, I suspect is unintentional.

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 12/29/2016 8:07 PM, Mike va3mw wrote:
> In today's day, a recording should be mandatory. If they are going to be experts in their field, this should be a no-brainer to achieve.
>
> Other than that, it is hearsay.
>
> Mike va3mw
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Richard Fjeld-2

Re: K3S Chirp?

In reply to this post by Nr4c

If the key contacts did not make good contact, it caused a chirp.
I would describe it as a 'dirty' sounding chirp, but it was a chirp.
Other keys worked fine.

Dick, n0ce

On 12/29/2016 5:57 PM, Nr4c wrote:

> How?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>
>> On Dec 29, 2016, at 6:06 PM, Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I once had a key that was prone to cause chirp.
>>
>> Dick, n0ce
>>
>>
>>>> On 12/29/2016 3:27 PM, Doug Smith wrote:
>>>> I was in the CW SS in November using my then new K3S with an ACOM
>>>> 1500. All of which was *great*.
>>>>
>>>> But, then, I received an Official Observer Advisory Notice that I was
>>>> “emitting a CW signal with a chirp”. The report detailed a QSO that
>>>> is, indeed, in my SS log. I was running on 20 meters at the time.
>>>>
>>>> FYI, the ACOM is on it’s own 240 VAC circuit and the K3S is on it’s
>>>> own 120 VAC circuit. The rest of the shack is on a separate 120 VAC
>>>> circuit.
>>>>
>>>> Since receiving the report I’ve listened to my signal on two
>>>> different receivers and I do not hear a chirp. Is there any possible
>>>> way I could have somehow misadjusted the K3S during the contest that
>>>> would result in a chirp?
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Doug, W7KF
>>>> http://www.w7kf.com <http://www.w7kf.com/>
>>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

K9MA

Re: K3S Chirp?

On 12/29/2016 21:40, Richard Fjeld wrote:
> If the key contacts did not make good contact, it caused a chirp.
> I would describe it as a 'dirty' sounding chirp, but it was a chirp.
> Other keys worked fine.
>
> Dick, n0ce

Sounds like the old days of cathode keying!

73,

Scott K9MA

--
Scott K9MA

[hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: K3S Chirp?

In reply to this post by Michael Walker

On Thu,12/29/2016 6:07 PM, Mike va3mw wrote:
> In today's day, a recording should be mandatory. If they are going to be experts in their field, this should be a no-brainer to achieve.

WHOA! An OO is a volunteer who monitors on the air and sends postcards
(remember those?) to hams who he/she observes with some technical
problem. He/she is doing a favor for the ham with a problem. An OO may
or may not be an expert on anything!

73, Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Richard Fjeld-2

Re: K3S Chirp?

In reply to this post by K9MA

I remember the rig as being solid state, but that was years ago, and I'm
slipping.
We will need another person's same experience to enlighten us.
I mentioned it because it is easy to expect the worst, and overlook
something simple.

Dick, n0ce

On 12/29/2016 10:17 PM, K9MA wrote:

> On 12/29/2016 21:40, Richard Fjeld wrote:
>> If the key contacts did not make good contact, it caused a chirp.
>> I would describe it as a 'dirty' sounding chirp, but it was a chirp.
>> Other keys worked fine.
>>
>> Dick, n0ce
>
> Sounds like the old days of cathode keying!
>
> 73,
>
> Scott K9MA
>