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K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

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wayne burdick

K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

Administrator

Our detailed, two-page comparison table between the K3S and IC-7610 is now complete:

http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3S_comparison1.pdf

I’d like to thank everyone who reviewed the table for content and accuracy, including several who own or have used both radios. Many of your suggestions were incorporated. As a result, the table now captures those aspects of the performance, portability, and user interface of the K3S that are most important to current and prospective owners.

The table is an excellent starting point. If you still have unanswered questions about K3S features, theory of operation, etc., feel free to email me directly. (In fact, if you’re within driving distance of my QTH in Belmont, CA, stop by for a demo :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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wayne burdick

Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

Administrator

Wes,

Max power output is automatically reduced in proportion to supply voltage. At very low voltages the PA is bypassed, but the operator can keep right on transmitting at QRP levels.

Wayne
N6KR

----
http://www.elecraft.com

> On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:23 AM, Wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> D
> If it was there, I didn't catch it on the first round, but I'm really concerned that you claim operation down to 10 V. Have you looked at TX IMD at that supply voltage?
>
> Wes N7WS
>
>
>> On 7/7/2018 9:05 AM, N6KR wrote:
>> Our detailed, two-page comparison table between the K3S and IC-7610 is now complete:
>>
>> http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3S_comparison1.pdf
>>
>> I’d like to thank everyone who reviewed the table for content and accuracy, including several who own or have used both radios. Many of your suggestions were incorporated. As a result, the table now captures those aspects of the performance, portability, and user interface of the K3S that are most important to current and prospective owners.
>>
>> The table is an excellent starting point. If you still have unanswered questions about K3S features, theory of operation, etc., feel free to email me directly. (In fact, if you’re within driving distance of my QTH in Belmont, CA, stop by for a demo :)
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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wayne burdick

Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

Administrator

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Both rigs use their BPFs in TX and RX modes. But the K3S also uses LPFs in both cases, improving IP2, etc.

Wayne

----
http://www.elecraft.com

> On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:23 AM, Wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If it was there, I didn't catch it on the first round, but I'm really concerned that you claim operation down to 10 V. Have you looked at TX IMD at that supply voltage?
>
> Wes N7WS
>
>
>> On 7/7/2018 9:05 AM, N6KR wrote:
>> Our detailed, two-page comparison table between the K3S and IC-7610 is now complete:
>>
>> http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3S_comparison1.pdf
>>
>> I’d like to thank everyone who reviewed the table for content and accuracy, including several who own or have used both radios. Many of your suggestions were incorporated. As a result, the table now captures those aspects of the performance, portability, and user interface of the K3S that are most important to current and prospective owners.
>>
>> The table is an excellent starting point. If you still have unanswered questions about K3S features, theory of operation, etc., feel free to email me directly. (In fact, if you’re within driving distance of my QTH in Belmont, CA, stop by for a demo :)
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Ralph S

Re: K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Wayne.
I would like to see a K3 upgraded version compared to the K3S and 7610. I have the K3 sn4629 with new Syn 2nd rx using it on MARS alot.
Ralph, W7HSG/AFA9RT

> On July 7, 2018 at 10:05 AM Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Our detailed, two-page comparison table between the K3S and IC-7610 is now complete:
>
> http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3S_comparison1.pdf
>
> I’d like to thank everyone who reviewed the table for content and accuracy, including several who own or have used both radios. Many of your suggestions were incorporated. As a result, the table now captures those aspects of the performance, portability, and user interface of the K3S that are most important to current and prospective owners.
>
> The table is an excellent starting point. If you still have unanswered questions about K3S features, theory of operation, etc., feel free to email me directly. (In fact, if you’re within driving distance of my QTH in Belmont, CA, stop by for a demo :)
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
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N4OI - Ken

Re: K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Nice document. But it would be interesting to augment the P3 section with a
feature comparison to the Icom. IMHO, the P3/SVGA a a natural component of
the K3S - not just an add-on option. Thanks!

N4OI

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Bob Wilson, N6TV

Re: K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

Agreed Ken.

This is the only part of the table that seems a bit unfair to the IC-7610.
I've added the missing parts with ">>>" (I hope this formats OK):

*Features* *K3S* *IC-7610* *K3S Benefits*
Spectrum + waterfall
display area total 7.5” 5.5” More readable display

>>> Display. res. P3: 480x272 800x480 (IC-7610 better res.)
>>> P3SVGA: 1920x1080 P3SVGA better res.

Marker pointing
mechanism Dedicated knob Touch Accurate marker tuning
>>> or
>>> USB Mouse (Mouse more accurate)

In sum, even using only part of the screen for the waterfall, the IC-7610
display may be able to use more horizontal pixels than the P3, so it can
show more signal lines. But the Icom waterfall display doesn't scroll in
Fixed mode (the VFO A cursor just goes off screen), which is a major flaw
in Icom's design, not to mention the complex menu settings required to
adjust the waterfall span and edges.

Yes, the P3 dedicated knob + markers may be more accurate than touching the
Icom screen, but using that tiny P3 knob is really much more difficult than
clicking on a signal with an SDR, or just moving the VFO knob. However,
the IC-7610 does let you connect a USB mouse. Then you just click on
signals with the mouse pointer on the screen, so Icom wins on that.

However, I'm told that the scroll wheel on the mouse doesn't "fine tune"
the Icom VFO position after you click, so they really missed the boat on
that one.

Again I beg for the P3's USB connector to add mouse support. The hardware
is all there.

Left click: Move VFO A
Right click: Move VFO B
Scroll Wheel: Fine tune VFO A, B, or last-clicked (user option)

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 4:22 AM, N4OI - Ken <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Nice document. But it would be interesting to augment the P3 section with
> a
> feature comparison to the Icom. IMHO, the P3/SVGA a a natural component of
> the K3S - not just an add-on option. Thanks!
>
> N4OI
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Dave New, N8SBE

Re: K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Dave New, N8SBE

Re: K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Wayne,

You duplicated the line about the ATU:

ATU* matching range @ 100 W 10:1 (typ) 3:1 Allows monoband antennas to
be used on other bands

It's in the General and Transmitter sections.

Also, I would REALLY like to be able to plug a mouse into the P3, and
click my way around the SVGA screen. That's the one big thing I miss
from when I was using Larry's N8LP LP Pan on my PC before the P3 came
out. It was very handy looking for folks calling CQ by just clicking
around the waterfall. Really changed my operating experience. Found
out there are a lot of folks out there calling CQ, but you just miss
them by randomly tuning around.

Thanks,

-- 73, Dave, N8SBE

Our detailed, two-page comparison table between the K3S and IC-7610 is
now complete:

http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3S_comparison1.pdf

...

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Bob Wilson, N6TV

Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

The link below no longer works. Where is this document now?

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 9:05 AM N6KR <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Our detailed, two-page comparison table between the K3S and IC-7610 is now
> complete:
>
> http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3S_comparison1.pdf
>
> I’d like to thank everyone who reviewed the table for content and
> accuracy, including several who own or have used both radios. Many of your
> suggestions were incorporated. As a result, the table now captures those
> aspects of the performance, portability, and user interface of the K3S that
> are most important to current and prospective owners.
>
> The table is an excellent starting point. If you still have unanswered
> questions about K3S features, theory of operation, etc., feel free to email
> me directly. (In fact, if you’re within driving distance of my QTH in
> Belmont, CA, stop by for a demo :)
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>

John Hiatt

Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

It appears to be linked from the K3S Transceiver Product page, on the Manuals tab toward the bottom of the page, but here is the current link: ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/K3S_comparison1.pdf

John, KC7DRI

________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Bob Wilson, N6TV <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 6:45 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

The link below no longer works. Where is this document now?

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 9:05 AM N6KR <[hidden email]> wrote:

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RobertG

Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

I can' get this, latest link to work either.
...robert

On 1/14/2019 04:11, John Hiatt wrote:

> It appears to be linked from the K3S Transceiver Product page, on the Manuals tab toward the bottom of the page, but here is the current link: ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/K3S_comparison1.pdf
>
> John, KC7DRI
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Bob Wilson, N6TV <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 6:45 PM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)
>
> The link below no longer works. Where is this document now?
>
> 73,
> Bob, N6TV
>
> On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 9:05 AM N6KR <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Our detailed, two-page comparison table between the K3S and IC-7610 is now
>> complete:
>>
>> http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3S_comparison1.pdf
>>
>> Iï¿½d like to thank everyone who reviewed the table for content and
>> accuracy, including several who own or have used both radios. Many of your
>> suggestions were incorporated. As a result, the table now captures those
>> aspects of the performance, portability, and user interface of the K3S that
>> are most important to current and prospective owners.
>>
>> The table is an excellent starting point. If you still have unanswered
>> questions about K3S features, theory of operation, etc., feel free to email
>> me directly. (In fact, if youï¿½re within driving distance of my QTH in
>> Belmont, CA, stop by for a demo :)
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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--
Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
[hidden email]
Syracuse, New York, USA
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Dale Boresz

Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

Try: < http://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/K3S_comparison1.pdf >

73,

Dale - WA8SRA

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 7:14 PM Robert G Strickland <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I can' get this, latest link to work either.
> ...robert
>
> On 1/14/2019 04:11, John Hiatt wrote:
> > It appears to be linked from the K3S Transceiver Product page, on the
> Manuals tab toward the bottom of the page, but here is the current link:
> ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/K3S_comparison1.pdf
> >
> > John, KC7DRI
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> on behalf of Bob Wilson, N6TV <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 6:45 PM
> > To: Elecraft Reflector
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized
> (link attached)
> >
> > The link below no longer works. Where is this document now?
> >
> > 73,
> > Bob, N6TV
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 9:05 AM N6KR <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Our detailed, two-page comparison table between the K3S and IC-7610 is
> now
> >> complete:
> >>
> >> http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3S_comparison1.pdf
> >>
> >> Iï¿½d like to thank everyone who reviewed the table for content and
> >> accuracy, including several who own or have used both radios. Many of
> your
> >> suggestions were incorporated. As a result, the table now captures those
> >> aspects of the performance, portability, and user interface of the K3S
> that
> >> are most important to current and prospective owners.
> >>
> >> The table is an excellent starting point. If you still have unanswered
> >> questions about K3S features, theory of operation, etc., feel free to
> email
> >> me directly. (In fact, if youï¿½re within driving distance of my QTH in
> >> Belmont, CA, stop by for a demo :)
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Wayne
> >> N6KR
> >>
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
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> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
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> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
>
> --
> Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
> [hidden email]
> Syracuse, New York, USA
> ______________________________________________________________
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Jim N7US

FW: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized (link attached)

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

I'd be interested in seeing a similar comparison of the K3S to the
FlexRadio.

Jim N7US

-----Original Message-----

My two cents:

> Rob wrote:
>
> I would count the order differently if numbering is of interest. The
radio at #1 cannot be reproduced with current software.

Clarified recently in footnote "y" of the RX performance table.

> That makes the K3S #1 and the 7610 #9 if you want to count for some
reason. The difference in 2 kHz dynamic range is 106 dB compared to 98 dB.

The table is sorted on 2 kHz IMDDR3. However, the table also shows dramatic
differences in blocking dynamic range. For example, the K3S is 20 to 30 dB
stronger in this regard than all of the direct-sampling radios in the table.
This is due to the K3S having narrow-band filtering (crystal filters) ahead
of the ADC. This can greatly reduce desense and other artifacts in any
high-signal situation (Field Day, KW neighbor, multi-TX station, etc.).

Wayne
N6KR

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WW3S

Re: FW: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized (linkattached)

and that was my real life experience in last weekends 160 contest....I felt
the 7610 could hear just a bit better than the K3, especially those ESP
signals right at the noise.....I worked several DX I wouldn’t have with the
K3.....BUT.......in crowded condx, the 7610 thumped and pumped when someone
was close to my passband, even with a 200 hz filter enabled. I didn’t get
any of that with the K3, its front end is like a brick wall......to be fair,
I had the noise blanker enabled on the 7610, which some comments post
contest said that could be some of the thumping I experienced.....

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim N7US
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 8:18 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] FW: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized
(linkattached)

I'd be interested in seeing a similar comparison of the K3S to the
FlexRadio.

Jim N7US

-----Original Message-----

My two cents:

> Rob wrote:
>
> I would count the order differently if numbering is of interest. The
radio at #1 cannot be reproduced with current software.

Clarified recently in footnote "y" of the RX performance table.

> That makes the K3S #1 and the 7610 #9 if you want to count for some
reason. The difference in 2 kHz dynamic range is 106 dB compared to 98 dB.

The table is sorted on 2 kHz IMDDR3. However, the table also shows dramatic
differences in blocking dynamic range. For example, the K3S is 20 to 30 dB
stronger in this regard than all of the direct-sampling radios in the table.
This is due to the K3S having narrow-band filtering (crystal filters) ahead
of the ADC. This can greatly reduce desense and other artifacts in any
high-signal situation (Field Day, KW neighbor, multi-TX station, etc.).

Wayne
N6KR

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Roger

Re: FW: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized (linkattached)

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Wes Stewart-2

Re: FW: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized(linkattached)

I agree.

On 1/30/2019 10:08 AM, Roger wrote:
> A comparison with TS-890S would be interesting.
>
> 73, Roger DL2YDP
>

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Ron Genovesi

Re: FW: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized(linkattached)

Having owned both, I can assure you of one thing.
You really don’t want to go there.
Believe me

Ron Genovesi
N3ETA
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 30, 2019, at 12:30 PM, Wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I agree.
>
>> On 1/30/2019 10:08 AM, Roger wrote:
>> A comparison with TS-890S would be interesting.
>>
>> 73, Roger DL2YDP
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Wes Stewart-2

Re: FW: [Elecraft-K3] K3S Comparison table finalized(linkattached)

How could you possibly know that?

On 1/30/2019 2:08 PM, Ron Genovesi wrote:

> Having owned both, I can assure you of one thing.
> You really don’t want to go there.
> Believe me
>
> Ron Genovesi
> N3ETA
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 30, 2019, at 12:30 PM, Wes <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>> I agree.
>>
>> On 1/30/2019 10:08 AM, Roger wrote:
>>> A comparison with TS-890S would be interesting.
>>>
>>> 73, Roger DL2YDP
>>>