K3S Power Creep (again)
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This is an old subject but with a new wrinkle. Although I'm observing a drift
in power on all bands (and modes) after a band or power adjustment, it's ridiculously slow on 17-meters. It's taking 5-10 seconds to stabilize. Any change, such as switching to another band and back again or a minor change in power starts the process over. This is particularly annoying on RTTY AFSK A. (Please no lectures on how Elecraft ALC is different from other radios, I've been running AFSK RTTY for 10 years with K3s.) Using the KPA500 power graph as an expanded proxy for the K3S output power, I'm seeing a change from about 50 watts to 500 watts after an adjustment. On CW the first dit is about 100W. I reran the power calibration and this appeared to fix it initially but the issue returned. This was particularly annoying when I was running a digital mode and saw that I was hitting the amp harder than desired. I tried adjusting power during the transmission and it practically dropped to zero before slowly climbing. Getting a precise level is difficult. Wes N7WS ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I had the same problem, plus my output on 160 and 80 was low.
I just had the radio back for warranty service, and they turned it around in just a few days. I was very pleased. 73, Jim N7US -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Wes Stewart Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 16:09 To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: [Elecraft] K3S Power Creep (again) This is an old subject but with a new wrinkle. Although I'm observing a drift in power on all bands (and modes) after a band or power adjustment, it's ridiculously slow on 17-meters. It's taking 5-10 seconds to stabilize. Any change, such as switching to another band and back again or a minor change in power starts the process over. This is particularly annoying on RTTY AFSK A. (Please no lectures on how Elecraft ALC is different from other radios, I've been running AFSK RTTY for 10 years with K3s.) Using the KPA500 power graph as an expanded proxy for the K3S output power, I'm seeing a change from about 50 watts to 500 watts after an adjustment. On CW the first dit is about 100W. I reran the power calibration and this appeared to fix it initially but the issue returned. This was particularly annoying when I was running a digital mode and saw that I was hitting the amp harder than desired. I tried adjusting power during the transmission and it practically dropped to zero before slowly climbing. Getting a precise level is difficult. Wes N7WS ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2
Hi all,
I have the same problem. Anytime I change something, like band, power or a number of other things, power starts up ridiculously low and creeps *very* slowly up to the 100W mark. Even without changing anything the actual peak power on a transmission can be anywhere between 80 and 120W as indicated by my LP-100A. I am not sure if this is a problem with K3S only. I still have my old K3 but don't use it often enough to know if this is a K3S problem only. I understand Elecraft's policy on not relying on a fast ALC to to control power like most of the big three do (causing IMD), but really, does it have to be this slow? This is on a fairly new K3S which has been back to the factory twice to get the latest upgrades to the transmitter chain. My experience is all SSB with 100W set for the power level. AB2TC - Knut Wes Stewart-2 wrote > This is an old subject but with a new wrinkle. Although I'm observing a > drift > in power on all bands (and modes) after a band or power adjustment, it's > ridiculously slow on 17-meters. It's taking 5-10 seconds to stabilize. > > Any change, such as switching to another band and back again or a minor > change > in power starts the process over. This is particularly annoying on RTTY > AFSK > A. (Please no lectures on how Elecraft ALC is different from other > radios, I've > been running AFSK RTTY for 10 years with K3s.) Using the KPA500 power > graph as > an expanded proxy for the K3S output power, I'm seeing a change from about > 50 > watts to 500 watts after an adjustment. On CW the first dit is about 100W. > > I reran the power calibration and this appeared to fix it initially but > the > issue returned. This was particularly annoying when I was running a > digital > mode and saw that I was hitting the amp harder than desired. I tried > adjusting > power during the transmission and it practically dropped to zero before > slowly > climbing. Getting a precise level is difficult. > > Wes N7WS > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto: > Elecraft@.qth > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to > lists+1215531472858-365791@.nabble -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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One of the causes for that "power creep" when using soundcard data modes
(DATA A or AFSK A) is insufficient audio to the K3. The audio level must be adjusted to produce 4 bars solid with the 5th bar flashing on the ALC meter. For voice modes, a similar situation may exist, and with compression set to zero, you need to drive the ALC meter at 5 to 7 bars on the ALC meter when talking in a normal voice. After that you may set the compression to your pleasure. Your situation may have a different cause, but that is the first thing to check. Yes, the Elecraft implementation for power control is like many commercial transceivers, and unlike the "big 3". It does not produce IMD, but depends on having sufficient audio into the transceiver to prevent "power hunting". The rise times to full power you have stated is exceptionally long, so my first suspicion is that you are not driving with sufficient audio. In most cases (of normal operation) the time to full power output is in milliseconds. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/13/2018 5:46 PM, ab2tc wrote: > Hi all, > > I have the same problem. Anytime I change something, like band, power or a > number of other things, power starts up ridiculously low and creeps *very* > slowly up to the 100W mark. Even without changing anything the actual peak > power on a transmission can be anywhere between 80 and 120W as indicated by > my LP-100A. I am not sure if this is a problem with K3S only. I still have > my old K3 but don't use it often enough to know if this is a K3S problem > only. I understand Elecraft's policy on not relying on a fast ALC to to > control power like most of the big three do (causing IMD), but really, does > it have to be this slow? This is on a fairly new K3S which has been back to > the factory twice to get the latest upgrades to the transmitter chain. My > experience is all SSB with 100W set for the power level. > > AB2TC - Knut > > > > Wes Stewart-2 wrote >> This is an old subject but with a new wrinkle. Although I'm observing a >> drift >> in power on all bands (and modes) after a band or power adjustment, it's >> ridiculously slow on 17-meters. It's taking 5-10 seconds to stabilize. >> >> Any change, such as switching to another band and back again or a minor >> change >> in power starts the process over. This is particularly annoying on RTTY >> AFSK >> A. (Please no lectures on how Elecraft ALC is different from other >> radios, I've >> been running AFSK RTTY for 10 years with K3s.) Using the KPA500 power >> graph as >> an expanded proxy for the K3S output power, I'm seeing a change from about >> 50 >> watts to 500 watts after an adjustment. On CW the first dit is about 100W. >> >> I reran the power calibration and this appeared to fix it initially but >> the >> issue returned. This was particularly annoying when I was running a >> digital >> mode and saw that I was hitting the amp harder than desired. I tried >> adjusting >> power during the transmission and it practically dropped to zero before >> slowly >> climbing. Getting a precise level is difficult. >> >> Wes N7WS >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto: > >> Elecraft@.qth > >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to > >> lists+1215531472858-365791@.nabble > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: K3S Power Creep (again)
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In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2
Power Creep
I bet each one of you that has this problem has one defective output power transistor. The remaining transistor can reach full power but it takes a while. Talk to Elecraft service and ask them if they think that is your problem and if it is then make arrangements to get it fixed. Good luck and hope this can fix your problems. 73 Ken W0CZ Sent from my iPad > On Mar 13, 2018, at 4:19 PM, Jim N7US <[hidden email]> wrote: > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I had the problem of power creep and the fix was just as described.
Adjusting the drive to the transmitter fixed it. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Kenneth Christiansen Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:57 PM To: Jim N7US <[hidden email]> Cc: Wes Stewart <[hidden email]>; Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Power Creep (again) Power Creep I bet each one of you that has this problem has one defective output power transistor. The remaining transistor can reach full power but it takes a while. Talk to Elecraft service and ask them if they think that is your problem and if it is then make arrangements to get it fixed. Good luck and hope this can fix your problems. 73 Ken W0CZ Sent from my iPad > On Mar 13, 2018, at 4:19 PM, Jim N7US <[hidden email]> wrote: > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by ab2tc
I have had the same experience running FT8.
Buck, k4ia Honor Roll 8BDXCC EasyWayHamBooks.com On 3/13/2018 5:46 PM, ab2tc wrote: > Hi all, > > I have the same problem. Anytime I change something, like band, power or a > number of other things, power starts up ridiculously low and creeps *very* > slowly up to the 100W mark. Even without changing anything the actual peak > power on a transmission can be anywhere between 80 and 120W as indicated by > my LP-100A. I am not sure if this is a problem with K3S only. I still have > my old K3 but don't use it often enough to know if this is a K3S problem > only. I understand Elecraft's policy on not relying on a fast ALC to to > control power like most of the big three do (causing IMD), but really, does > it have to be this slow? This is on a fairly new K3S which has been back to > the factory twice to get the latest upgrades to the transmitter chain. My > experience is all SSB with 100W set for the power level. > > AB2TC - Knut > > > > Wes Stewart-2 wrote >> This is an old subject but with a new wrinkle. Although I'm observing a >> drift >> in power on all bands (and modes) after a band or power adjustment, it's >> ridiculously slow on 17-meters. It's taking 5-10 seconds to stabilize. >> >> Any change, such as switching to another band and back again or a minor >> change >> in power starts the process over. This is particularly annoying on RTTY >> AFSK >> A. (Please no lectures on how Elecraft ALC is different from other >> radios, I've >> been running AFSK RTTY for 10 years with K3s.) Using the KPA500 power >> graph as >> an expanded proxy for the K3S output power, I'm seeing a change from about >> 50 >> watts to 500 watts after an adjustment. On CW the first dit is about 100W. >> >> I reran the power calibration and this appeared to fix it initially but >> the >> issue returned. This was particularly annoying when I was running a >> digital >> mode and saw that I was hitting the amp harder than desired. I tried >> adjusting >> power during the transmission and it practically dropped to zero before >> slowly >> climbing. Getting a precise level is difficult. >> >> Wes N7WS >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto: > >> Elecraft@.qth > >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to > >> lists+1215531472858-365791@.nabble > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2
Don has pegged the usual cause of "power creep". I had a bit
of that when I first set up my K3 for using WSJT programs back in 2010 when my radio was new. But the radio does not like you adjusting the power knob if it is transmitting under software. Wait till its in receive mode then you can adjust power if you know what level you want or press XMIT key to manually transmit a carrier and adjust it. I run into this when I am setting up my 2m-8877 amp drive to run 1400w. If it is running too high in operating JT65, I have to wait until the receive sequence starts or click off in the software. If I try adjusting power while JT65 is transmitting the power will resist change or will suddenly drop to a much lower level. I think you are fighting some auto-level routines in the radio MCU which apparently protect from any large changes in audio drive (thus protecting RF amps from overdrive and/or generating IMD). This last is my guess at what is happening (experts feel free to correct). 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Dubus-NA Business mail: [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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