K3S and P3 pinout/cable stuff... (How to drive yourself mad integrating an SPE amp into your system)

[Clay Autery-2]

In my efforts (more of a quest now it seems) to comprehend the K3s and
P3 pinouts for RS-232 and ACC, et al., I have become convinced it is a
conspiracy to drive me nuts.<grin>
Trying to figure this all out so I can build a custom cable to connect
all the following with the indicated functionality:

K3s (to computer via USB, to P3 via CBLP3Y or NEW custom cable
incorporating CBLP3Y wiring with additions to add SPE)

P3 (using CBLP3Y or custom to accomodate additional Y to SPE for
RS-232/common)

SPE 1K-FA (CAT, KEY/RELAY, ALC (failsafe only), Remote On, and TX INH
via CAT connector, AND RS-232 direct to computer via USB)

External Tuner (Denon MLT-2500 for now, Palstar HF-Auto eventually whent
eh SPE will go in favor of a KPA1500 and this ALL becomes moot)

Questions:

1) Does the K3s adhere to RS-232 standards on signalling?
2) Is the pinout on the RS-232/P3 Port (8P8C, aka RJ45 jack) static, or
do the signal lines change based on some logic setting in the firmware?
3) The E980297 cable (RJ45 to DE9F) pinout has DTR and RTS and the
CBLP3Y does not....  Is this because when this cable is used, the
connection to the computer is via a serial cable from the P3's PC port
(serial)?  And with the CBLP3Y, the DTR/RTS traffic goes to the computer
via the USB cable?
4) Is the K3S a DTE or DCE device?

The TXD/RXD/GND signalling appears to change depending on how the K3s
"sees" the computer.  Or I am seriously confused... maybe both.  <smile>

_*Bottom Line:*_

Can someone give me a DEFINITIVE pinout for ALL 8 pins on the K3S'
RS232/P3 Port?

Pin 1 is (appears to be secondary/second/#2) an RS-232 Common (ground)
Pin 2 primary RXD or TXD?
Pin 3 secondary RXD or TXD?
Pin 4 is (appears to be primary/first/#1) an RS-232 Common (ground)
Pin 5 primary RXD or TXD?
Pin 6 Secondary RXD or TXD?
Pin 7 is DTR
Pin 8 is RTS

Bottom of Page 19 in K3S manual gives the RJ45 pinout as follows when
using the E980297 cable:

_*RJ45           DE9F (P3 XCVR)*_
1 NC
2 RXD__________2 (RXD)
3 NC
4 Common_______5 (Common/GND)
5 TXD__________3 (TXD)
6 NC
7 DTR__________4 (DTR)
8 RTS__________7 (RTS)

I need to know what 1,3, and 6 are called on the K3S RS232/P3 (RJ45 port
before I can figure out the rest of the puzzle.... they are obviously
TXD/RXD/GRN set, and #1 is for sure the second ground as shows
continuity with the other ground using a meter.  But it looks like there
is either a traffic direction change on some of the signal lines or
there's a wired in "null modem" crossover somehow when the computer
connection goes from the serial cable between P3 and computer versus the
USB cable between the K3s and computer.

Until I verify exactly what each pin is as connected with the CBLP3Y to
P3 and USB from K3s to computer and which way traffic is flowing on each
sig line, I won't know where to patch in the SPE's RX232 and TX232 lines.

Probably should have just had Dan Tassel make the cable(s), but I like
making my own cables, and I want to go a bit beyond the "minimum".

73,

--
______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
[phone]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Lyle Johnson]

Clay,

Go to the Elecraft website, then go to the manuals section, then
download the K3S schematics, then go to the KIO3B Digital I/O Module
page.  You'll find two boxes with pin definitions for the connector in
question.  And of course the K3S schematic set will allow you to follow
them as deeply into the radio as you'd like, perhaps deeper :-)

73,

Lyle KK7P

On 10/12/17 12:25 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
> ...
> Can someone give me a DEFINITIVE pinout for ALL 8 pins on the K3S'
> RS232/P3 Port?

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Clay Autery-2]

Doh!  Thanks Lyle...  I was unaware that the K3S schematics had finally
been put up for download...

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
[phone]

On 10/12/2017 2:48 PM, Lyle Johnson wrote:

> Clay,
>
> Go to the Elecraft website, then go to the manuals section, then
> download the K3S schematics, then go to the KIO3B Digital I/O Module
> page.  You'll find two boxes with pin definitions for the connector in
> question.  And of course the K3S schematic set will allow you to
> follow them as deeply into the radio as you'd like, perhaps deeper :-)
>
> 73,
>
> Lyle KK7P
>
> On 10/12/17 12:25 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> ...
>> Can someone give me a DEFINITIVE pinout for ALL 8 pins on the K3S'
>> RS232/P3 Port?
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[ng7m]

Clay, you are doing the right thing to make your own cables.  Digging in
and learning all the details will pay off in the long run.  Plus, if you
buy a pre-made cable you will be at the lowest common denominator and end
up fighting it or re-working it down the road when you get new equipment.

Good for you for sticking with it and digging into the manual and details.

Max NG7M

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In my efforts (more of a quest now it seems) to comprehend the K3s and P3
> pinouts for RS-232 and ACC, et al., I have become convinced it is a
> conspiracy to drive me nuts.<grin>
> Trying to figure this all out so I can build a custom cable to connect all
> the following with the indicated functionality:
>
> K3s (to computer via USB, to P3 via CBLP3Y or NEW custom cable
> incorporating CBLP3Y wiring with additions to add SPE)
>
> P3 (using CBLP3Y or custom to accomodate additional Y to SPE for
> RS-232/common)
>
> SPE 1K-FA (CAT, KEY/RELAY, ALC (failsafe only), Remote On, and TX INH via
> CAT connector, AND RS-232 direct to computer via USB)
>
> External Tuner (Denon MLT-2500 for now, Palstar HF-Auto eventually whent
> eh SPE will go in favor of a KPA1500 and this ALL becomes moot)
>
> Questions:
>
> 1) Does the K3s adhere to RS-232 standards on signalling?
> 2) Is the pinout on the RS-232/P3 Port (8P8C, aka RJ45 jack) static, or do
> the signal lines change based on some logic setting in the firmware?
> 3) The E980297 cable (RJ45 to DE9F) pinout has DTR and RTS and the CBLP3Y
> does not....  Is this because when this cable is used, the connection to
> the computer is via a serial cable from the P3's PC port (serial)?  And
> with the CBLP3Y, the DTR/RTS traffic goes to the computer via the USB cable?
> 4) Is the K3S a DTE or DCE device?
>
> The TXD/RXD/GND signalling appears to change depending on how the K3s
> "sees" the computer.  Or I am seriously confused... maybe both.  <smile>
>
> _*Bottom Line:*_
>
> Can someone give me a DEFINITIVE pinout for ALL 8 pins on the K3S'
> RS232/P3 Port?
>
> Pin 1 is (appears to be secondary/second/#2) an RS-232 Common (ground)
> Pin 2 primary RXD or TXD?
> Pin 3 secondary RXD or TXD?
> Pin 4 is (appears to be primary/first/#1) an RS-232 Common (ground)
> Pin 5 primary RXD or TXD?
> Pin 6 Secondary RXD or TXD?
> Pin 7 is DTR
> Pin 8 is RTS
>
> Bottom of Page 19 in K3S manual gives the RJ45 pinout as follows when
> using the E980297 cable:
>
> _*RJ45           DE9F (P3 XCVR)*_
> 1 NC
> 2 RXD__________2 (RXD)
> 3 NC
> 4 Common_______5 (Common/GND)
> 5 TXD__________3 (TXD)
> 6 NC
> 7 DTR__________4 (DTR)
> 8 RTS__________7 (RTS)
>
> I need to know what 1,3, and 6 are called on the K3S RS232/P3 (RJ45 port
> before I can figure out the rest of the puzzle.... they are obviously
> TXD/RXD/GRN set, and #1 is for sure the second ground as shows continuity
> with the other ground using a meter.  But it looks like there is either a
> traffic direction change on some of the signal lines or there's a wired in
> "null modem" crossover somehow when the computer connection goes from the
> serial cable between P3 and computer versus the USB cable between the K3s
> and computer.
>
> Until I verify exactly what each pin is as connected with the CBLP3Y to P3
> and USB from K3s to computer and which way traffic is flowing on each sig
> line, I won't know where to patch in the SPE's RX232 and TX232 lines.
>
> Probably should have just had Dan Tassel make the cable(s), but I like
> making my own cables, and I want to go a bit beyond the "minimum".
>
> 73,
>
> --
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> [phone]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--
M. George
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Bill K9YEQ]

Max,  I agree with your wiring comment.  I have a Heil cable which was suggested for my Heil mic and the pin outs don't match anything I know related to the KX2/3.  Too bad the Co.'s don't manufacture to match different radios.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of M. George
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 5:51 PM
To: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S and P3 pinout/cable stuff... (How to drive yourself mad integrating an SPE amp into your system)

Clay, you are doing the right thing to make your own cables.  Digging in and learning all the details will pay off in the long run.  Plus, if you buy a pre-made cable you will be at the lowest common denominator and end up fighting it or re-working it down the road when you get new equipment.

Good for you for sticking with it and digging into the manual and details.

Max NG7M

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In my efforts (more of a quest now it seems) to comprehend the K3s and
> P3 pinouts for RS-232 and ACC, et al., I have become convinced it is a
> conspiracy to drive me nuts.<grin> Trying to figure this all out so I
> can build a custom cable to connect all the following with the
> indicated functionality:
>
> K3s (to computer via USB, to P3 via CBLP3Y or NEW custom cable
> incorporating CBLP3Y wiring with additions to add SPE)
>
> P3 (using CBLP3Y or custom to accomodate additional Y to SPE for
> RS-232/common)
>
> SPE 1K-FA (CAT, KEY/RELAY, ALC (failsafe only), Remote On, and TX INH
> via CAT connector, AND RS-232 direct to computer via USB)
>
> External Tuner (Denon MLT-2500 for now, Palstar HF-Auto eventually
> whent eh SPE will go in favor of a KPA1500 and this ALL becomes moot)
>
> Questions:
>
> 1) Does the K3s adhere to RS-232 standards on signalling?
> 2) Is the pinout on the RS-232/P3 Port (8P8C, aka RJ45 jack) static,
> or do the signal lines change based on some logic setting in the firmware?
> 3) The E980297 cable (RJ45 to DE9F) pinout has DTR and RTS and the
> CBLP3Y does not....  Is this because when this cable is used, the
> connection to the computer is via a serial cable from the P3's PC port
> (serial)?  And with the CBLP3Y, the DTR/RTS traffic goes to the computer via the USB cable?
> 4) Is the K3S a DTE or DCE device?
>
> The TXD/RXD/GND signalling appears to change depending on how the K3s
> "sees" the computer.  Or I am seriously confused... maybe both.  
> <smile>
>
> _*Bottom Line:*_
>
> Can someone give me a DEFINITIVE pinout for ALL 8 pins on the K3S'
> RS232/P3 Port?
>
> Pin 1 is (appears to be secondary/second/#2) an RS-232 Common (ground)
> Pin 2 primary RXD or TXD?
> Pin 3 secondary RXD or TXD?
> Pin 4 is (appears to be primary/first/#1) an RS-232 Common (ground)
> Pin 5 primary RXD or TXD?
> Pin 6 Secondary RXD or TXD?
> Pin 7 is DTR
> Pin 8 is RTS
>
> Bottom of Page 19 in K3S manual gives the RJ45 pinout as follows when
> using the E980297 cable:
>
> _*RJ45           DE9F (P3 XCVR)*_
> 1 NC
> 2 RXD__________2 (RXD)
> 3 NC
> 4 Common_______5 (Common/GND)
> 5 TXD__________3 (TXD)
> 6 NC
> 7 DTR__________4 (DTR)
> 8 RTS__________7 (RTS)
>
> I need to know what 1,3, and 6 are called on the K3S RS232/P3 (RJ45
> port before I can figure out the rest of the puzzle.... they are
> obviously TXD/RXD/GRN set, and #1 is for sure the second ground as
> shows continuity with the other ground using a meter.  But it looks
> like there is either a traffic direction change on some of the signal
> lines or there's a wired in "null modem" crossover somehow when the
> computer connection goes from the serial cable between P3 and computer
> versus the USB cable between the K3s and computer.
>
> Until I verify exactly what each pin is as connected with the CBLP3Y
> to P3 and USB from K3s to computer and which way traffic is flowing on
> each sig line, I won't know where to patch in the SPE's RX232 and TX232 lines.
>
> Probably should have just had Dan Tassel make the cable(s), but I like
> making my own cables, and I want to go a bit beyond the "minimum".
>
> 73,
>
> --
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> [phone]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]

--
M. George
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]