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K3S and expectations

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dennis rosenbalm

K3S and expectations

Marketing gimmicks and flash don't impress me. Minor improvements and repackaging/repainting and increasing the price substantially doesn't impress me. Exciting new products do. I believe a lot of folks share this view.

For what I do with the K3, I wouldn't give a second thought to replacing it with the K3S. It is going to be interesting to see how many K3S units sell compared to the K3, if this is ever made public.

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Wes (N7WS)

Re: K3S and expectations

I was hoping for a "K4", which I imagine is on the drawing board someplace.
But, I had also been considering a new bare-bones K3/10 to replace my S/N 2059
K3/100, which, except for the I-F output mod was as-built. I planned to
transfer over the options and have the latest stuff. The K3S/100 came along and
now I have one on order. As it turns out, I will not transfer the PA, since the
technology there has changed and the the general coverage module has as well so
that stays behind.

So for me, it worked out well. As to the relative sales numbers, consider that
*all* new buyers are going to get a K3S, so that comparison will be meaningless,
but hardly a secret.

Wes N7WS

On 5/16/2015 7:04 AM, GDR wrote:
> Marketing gimmicks and flash don't impress me. Minor improvements and repackaging/repainting and increasing the price substantially doesn't impress me. Exciting new products do. I believe a lot of folks share this view.
>
> For what I do with the K3, I wouldn't give a second thought to replacing it with the K3S. It is going to be interesting to see how many K3S units sell compared to the K3, if this is ever made public.
>

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Mike Reublin NF4L

Re: K3S and expectations

In reply to this post by dennis rosenbalm

I'm settling into a similar view. We know the K3S serial number starts at 1000. People tend to post their number.

73, Mike NF4L

> On May 16, 2015, at 10:04 AM, GDR <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Marketing gimmicks and flash don't impress me. Minor improvements and repackaging/repainting and increasing the price substantially doesn't impress me. Exciting new products do. I believe a lot of folks share this view.
>
> For what I do with the K3, I wouldn't give a second thought to replacing it with the K3S. It is going to be interesting to see how many K3S units sell compared to the K3, if this is ever made public.
>
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Jim Sheldon

Re: K3S and expectations

In reply to this post by dennis rosenbalm

I don't usually chime in on these threads, but since everyone seems to
be speculating on Elecraft's marketing strategy regarding the K3S, my
take on the matter is they screwed up. From all the whinging and
cribbing and whining about the fictional "K4" , Wayne and Eric should
have just rounded the corners on the front and rear panels, ala the
other manufacturers and called the K3S the K4. All the people
complaining they'd rather have had a "new" rig called the K4 would be
satisfied and the reflector could go back to normal without all the
considerable garbage being generated by the grammar cops, the K3S(s), K4
cops and the rest of the stuff that just clutters up the reflector with
mostly useless garbage.

W0EB

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Jim Bolit

Re: K3S and expectations

.

A FAR to logical approach for the irrational Elecraft Kool Aid drinkers (I
was one, but going back to Jack on the rocks, with my K3) on this reflector.

Jim
W6AIM

.

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim
Sheldon
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 7:43 AM
To: Elecraft Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S and expectations

I don't usually chime in on these threads, but since everyone seems to be
speculating on Elecraft's marketing strategy regarding the K3S, my take on
the matter is they screwed up. From all the whinging and cribbing and
whining about the fictional "K4" , Wayne and Eric should have just rounded
the corners on the front and rear panels, ala the other manufacturers and
called the K3S the K4. All the people complaining they'd rather have had a
"new" rig called the K4 would be satisfied and the reflector could go back
to normal without all the considerable garbage being generated by the
grammar cops, the K3S(s), K4 cops and the rest of the stuff that just
clutters up the reflector with mostly useless garbage.

W0EB

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: K3S and expectations

In reply to this post by Mike Reublin NF4L

S/Ns start at 10,000 -- makes sense since the K3
didn't quite make it that far.

Phil W7OX

On 5/16/15 7:41 AM, Mike Reublin NF4L wrote:
> I'm settling into a similar view. We know the K3S serial number starts at 1000. People tend to post their number.
>
> 73, Mike NF4L

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3S and expectations

In reply to this post by Jim Sheldon

Can you define "Normal"? List members are not cribbing, whining or
complaining - they are expressing their legitimate reactions to a new
product announcement (comments Wayne and Eric probably WANT to hear).

The K3S vs: K3s discussion was purely tongue in cheek. No one was
serious about it. Here, we're all hams - a hobby based on chatting
about anything and everything. This list reflects that personality type.

The update from the K3 to the K3S makes perfect sense. I doubt it will
improve sales figures by any noticeable amount. Clearly, the update was
meant to keep the K3 looking fresh, add a couple of needed new features,
and to generate a little more market attention.

The discussion regarding a possible K4 is a completely legitimate one.
We (the list members) represent the most loyal and vocal segment of the
Elecraft customer base. What we say we want matters a lot. "We" have
had and will continue to have great influence on Elecraft product
planning. Just as it should be. It's one of the great aspects of
Elecraft as a company - they really listen.

I have no doubt that the K4 is either being actively considered or even
in development. The K3S isn't going to sustain the company. It will
extend the product life a little, perhaps. Five years from now? There
will need to be and undoubtedly will be several new flagship products.
Eagerness on our part is only natural. Speculation, ponderments,
what-ifs, throwing ideas around, even creating graphic renderings of a
potential product, all part of why we're here.

I enjoy the subtle humour of some of the threads. A chuckle here and
there is good for the soul.

Doug -- K0DXV

On 05/16/2015 08:42 AM, Jim Sheldon wrote:

> I don't usually chime in on these threads, but since everyone seems
> to be speculating on Elecraft's marketing strategy regarding the K3S,
> my take on the matter is they screwed up. From all the whinging and
> cribbing and whining about the fictional "K4" , Wayne and Eric should
> have just rounded the corners on the front and rear panels, ala the
> other manufacturers and called the K3S the K4. All the people
> complaining they'd rather have had a "new" rig called the K4 would be
> satisfied and the reflector could go back to normal without all the
> considerable garbage being generated by the grammar cops, the K3S(s),
> K4 cops and the rest of the stuff that just clutters up the reflector
> with mostly useless garbage.
>
> W0EB
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

NH7RO

Re: K3S and expectations

In reply to this post by dennis rosenbalm

Depended on the cat but most whiskers were still pretty pricey (especially after adjusting for inflation).

Jeff, NH7RO

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Jim Brown-10

Re: K3S and expectations

In reply to this post by dennis rosenbalm

You are completely missing Elecraft's philosophy, which is to maintain
support for existing products, upgrade them as much as is economically
feasible, and continue to stay at the front of the pack with respect to
performance and usability.

The K3 came on the market in 2008, using parts that were available then.
It was a huge step beyond the K2, designed before the turn of the
century! Three years ago, the KX3 hit the street with a different design
goal, and with advanced parts that did not exist in 2008. This is 2015,
yet more advanced parts are available, and Elecraft has continued to pay
attention to customer complaints and requests.

Those of us who own K3s can get much (most?) of the performance upgrade
for $210 by adding the new synth board, which significantly improves
performance with strong signals and contesting, and gives the RX first
rate performance at MF and LF. The way in which the K3 was designed does
not allow upgrading the audio amp that drives the speaker without
replacing the RF board. Two other weak spots, audio I/O and low noise
performance on 6M and 10M, has been addressed with a new I/O board and a
new preamp, and will be available as an upgrade to the K3. I think I
heard prices of about $200 for each.

As the owner of three K3s, I am quite pleased with Elecraft support for
what are now legacy radios (that is, they no longer sell them). If the
radio in question were from YaeIcoWood or Flex, we would instead be
buying a brand new radio and still be behind Elecraft in quality and
performance. I've already bought the K3SYNA boards, will mod the K3BPF
in the one radio that has it, and will probably upgrade to the K3IOB for
the convenience.

The K3SYNA boards probably get me 90% of the performance improvement of
the K3S, at about 5% of the cost of replacing the radio. That makes me a
VERY happy camper. My radios are not investments, the are not on my desk
to impress people, they are tools and toys I can USE.

73, Jim K9YC

On Sat,5/16/2015 7:04 AM, GDR wrote:
> Marketing gimmicks and flash don't impress me. Minor improvements and repackaging/repainting and increasing the price substantially doesn't impress me. Exciting new products do. I believe a lot of folks share this view.
>
> For what I do with the K3, I wouldn't give a second thought to replacing it with the K3S. It is going to be interesting to see how many K3S units sell compared to the K3, if this is ever made public.

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3S and expectations

In reply to this post by Wes (N7WS)

Wes,

> As it turns out, I will not transfer the PA, since the technology
> there has changed and the the general coverage module has as well so
> that stays behind.

I seem to have missed that change in the data sheet FAQ. Do you have
any specifics - particularly the transistor/FET(s) being used?

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2015-05-16 10:37 AM, Wes (N7WS) wrote:

> I was hoping for a "K4", which I imagine is on the drawing board
> someplace. But, I had also been considering a new bare-bones K3/10 to
> replace my S/N 2059 K3/100, which, except for the I-F output mod was
> as-built. I planned to transfer over the options and have the latest
> stuff. The K3S/100 came along and now I have one on order. As it turns
> out, I will not transfer the PA, since the technology there has changed
> and the the general coverage module has as well so that stays behind.
>
> So for me, it worked out well. As to the relative sales numbers,
> consider that *all* new buyers are going to get a K3S, so that
> comparison will be meaningless, but hardly a secret.
>
> Wes N7WS
>
> On 5/16/2015 7:04 AM, GDR wrote:
>> Marketing gimmicks and flash don't impress me. Minor improvements and
>> repackaging/repainting and increasing the price substantially doesn't
>> impress me. Exciting new products do. I believe a lot of folks share
>> this view.
>>
>> For what I do with the K3, I wouldn't give a second thought to
>> replacing it with the K3S. It is going to be interesting to see how
>> many K3S units sell compared to the K3, if this is ever made public.
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

ha4zd

Re: K3S and expectations

In reply to this post by dennis rosenbalm

Elecraft K3S development is a great example when a company is listening
to it's customers. What the customers wanted to see in an HF radio they
got it with the new one. Addition to it as a technical development the
KSYN3A. It is been accomplished with keeping the shine of the K3 and the
opportunity polish the existing K3 to K3S level. It is shocking
experience for the competitors and I am wondering how will they react on it.

István ha4zd

--

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Ken Miller K6CTW

Re: K3S and expectations

In reply to this post by dennis rosenbalm

As I'm sitting here reading a seemingly endless stream of comments on the new K3S, I was wondering how this same thing might have played out if this sort of communication had been available when say, Drake announced their R-4 Line, or when Collins announced their S-Line. That would have been really great to watch! One thing is certain though, Elecraft is certainly one of the best of the amateur radio companies out there with service like none other. Maybe that's why they have so much business and such a loyal base of users.

Just my 2 cents worth.

73 - Ken Miller, K6CTW K2 # 455

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Grant Youngman

Re: K3S and expectations

> I was wondering how this same thing might have played out if this sort of communication had been available when say, Drake announced their R-4 Line, or when Collins announced their S-Line. That would have been really great to watch!
> Just my 2 cents worth.
>
> 73 - Ken Miller, K6CTW K2 # 455
>
> ______________________________________________________________

Or maybe if you had just shelled out something north of $3500 for a KWM-2A right before the HF/KWM-380 was announced :-)

At some point the K3S won’t have enough control processor or DSP power, or parts will go obsolete, or technology will advance, and more changes and newer radios will come along. There will always be the stories of the guys who just bought the last of the old ones. I bought my K3 back in 2008. I’ve gotten good use of it, and the whole experience with Elecraft has been far better than what I got from the several versions of the radio I owned prior to the K3 (although those were good radios, too). I haven’t decided whether to continue to upgrade my K3 or spring for a K3S just because. But I’m not losing a whole lot of sleep over it. I turned on my K3 this morning, and it still works just fine. In fact, because of the stream of upgrades, it works better now than it did when I bought it.

I have more than one radio in daily use that has been around for well north of 60 years. I don’t really expect my K3-anything to last quite that long. Come to think of it ... I’m not likely to last that long either :-)

Grant NQ5T
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3S and expectations

In reply to this post by Ken Miller K6CTW

Interesting. As I remember, there was no upgrade path for the Drake 4 line short of selling your old R4 and getting an R4A,B and C. There was a factory upgrade for the 75A-2 to make it a 75A-2A, basically a 75A-3. Had to sell your 32S-1 to get a 32S-3.

I'll be very happy to add a new KSYN3A to keep my K3 operating at peak performance.

Paul K2PH

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Miller K6CTW <[hidden email]>
To: elecraft <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sat, May 16, 2015 1:30 pm
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S and expectations

As I'm sitting here reading a seemingly endless stream of comments on the new
K3S, I was wondering how this same thing might have played out if this sort of
communication had been available when say, Drake announced their R-4 Line, or
when Collins announced their S-Line. That would have been really great to
watch! One thing is certain though, Elecraft is certainly one of the best of
the amateur radio companies out there with service like none other. Maybe
that's why they have so much business and such a loyal base of users.

Just my
2 cents worth.

73 - Ken Miller, K6CTW K2 #
455

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3S and expectations

In reply to this post by Jim Sheldon

I believe the change from the K3 to the K3S has had a parallel in the K2
A to B change. The model number did not change from K2 to K2S in that
case, but it was well known that a K2 above serial number 3000 had the B
level boards.
In addition, taking that K2 upgrade as an example, there were mod kits
offered to bring an older K2 "almost" up to the level of the newer K2.
There were a few minor changes that were not practical to implement on
the level A boards, but the performance of an updated K2 was as good as
a new K2.

I see a similar upgrade path for the K3 - it will not quite become a K3S
because it is unlikely the RF board will be changed, but other than the
RF board and the added amp in the audio output, mod kits will be offered
to bring an earlier K3 up to date as much as possible.
The biggest performance improvement is had by installing the new synths,
and that has already been done on many K3s.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/16/2015 10:42 AM, Jim Sheldon wrote: