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K3S's built-in RTTY

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Don23805

K3S's built-in RTTY

I've just started playing with RTTY with my K3S using the "built-in"
capabilities for decoding and the Utility program. I'm still at the
stage of fiddling with the little lines to tune in a RTTY signal properly.

For you experienced RTTY'ers, is the built-in capability considered on a
par with using a separate sound card interface and separate RTTY PC
software, or is it just a nice beginner's intro?

73,

Don K2BIO

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

> For you experienced RTTY'ers, is the built-in capability considered
> on a par with using a separate sound card interface and separate RTTY
> PC software,

Not even close!

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 3/8/2017 12:10 PM, Don Pomplun wrote:

> I've just started playing with RTTY with my K3S using the "built-in"
> capabilities for decoding and the Utility program. I'm still at the
> stage of fiddling with the little lines to tune in a RTTY signal properly.
>
> For you experienced RTTY'ers, is the built-in capability considered on a
> par with using a separate sound card interface and separate RTTY PC
> software, or is it just a nice beginner's intro?
>
> 73,
>
> Don K2BIO
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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Dave Fugleberg

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

I'm not a huge RTTY guy, but I do operate it on occasion. The big
performance difference with using a PC is that there are several decoders
available, each with different strengths. These decoders typically have a
lot of options that can be tweaked to optimize them for conditions. It's
also possible to run multiple different decoders in parallel to see which
one decodes the best at any moment.
Having said that, I typically run whatever decoder is the default in
whatever software I'm using, and seldom adjust the parameters. And, when
the K3 is set to decode RTTY on its display, it generally does a remarkable
job on its own, at least on strong signals.
So, the built in stuff works well, but doesn't provide nearly the same
flexibility as computer based software.
On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 12:52 PM Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > For you experienced RTTY'ers, is the built-in capability considered
> > on a par with using a separate sound card interface and separate RTTY
> > PC software,
>
> Not even close!
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 3/8/2017 12:10 PM, Don Pomplun wrote:
> > I've just started playing with RTTY with my K3S using the "built-in"
> > capabilities for decoding and the Utility program. I'm still at the
> > stage of fiddling with the little lines to tune in a RTTY signal
> properly.
> >
> > For you experienced RTTY'ers, is the built-in capability considered on a
> > par with using a separate sound card interface and separate RTTY PC
> > software, or is it just a nice beginner's intro?
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Don K2BIO
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

In reply to this post by Don23805

There is a lot of great RTTY software out there, and it works with
standard sound cards -- like the one built-in to the K3S.

73 -- Lynn

On 3/8/2017 9:10 AM, Don Pomplun wrote:
> For you experienced RTTY'ers, is the built-in capability considered on
> a par with using a separate sound card interface and separate RTTY PC
> software, or is it just a nice beginner's intro?

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Jim Brown-10

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

I can't comment on the quality of the K3S USB interface, because I don't
own one. The decoder built into the K3 is pretty good, often as good or
better than the software decoder. When used with a keyboard and P3/SVGA
setup, it's pretty good for casual operation, and even for a DX pileup.
My neighbor, W6GJB, uses that setup for casual operation and is quite
happy with it. He also says that he thinks the decoder built into the
KX3 is even better!

There are several advantages though to using software decoders running
on a computer attached to the audio stream. The major one is that you
can choose decoder settings optimized for distortion produced by
different kinds of propagation -- like selective fading, multi-path, and
so on. The freeware MMTTY and 2Tone decoders are often used
simultaneously to decode the same signal. When one decoder misses
characters, the other often copies them fine. Contest logging programs
WriteLog and N1MM Logger Plus make it easy to do this. Winwarbler does
the same for non-contest operation.

I use N1MM for contest logging and WinWarbler for non-contest operation.
Many top RTTY contesters prefer WriteLog for RTTY.

73, Jim K9YC

On Wed,3/8/2017 10:51 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>
>> For you experienced RTTY'ers, is the built-in capability considered
>> on a par with using a separate sound card interface and separate RTTY
>> PC software,
>
> Not even close!
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Bill Frantz

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

In the CQ WPX RTTY contest I ran RUMlog's contest logger which
uses the K3 programming interface to encode and decode RTTY*. I
also ran cocoaModem using the KIO3B's "sound card"#. I used its
crossed loop indicator for tuning and occasionally looked at its
decode. The combination worked quite well.

In summary, the internal decode works quite well. I haven't
tried the internal encode, not having room on my desk for
another keyboard and being terrible with a paddle.

73 Bill AE6JV

* When using the internal K3 decoder through the programming
interface, it is necessary to turn off the decode display on the
P3's SVGA display. Some part of the Elecraft system runs out of
CPU horsepower and the result is severe character loss on both
the PC and on the SVGA.

# My K3 has all the upgrade boards Elecraft has released. It is
almost a K3S.

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Don23805

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

In reply to this post by Don23805

TNX for all the helpful replies. A few referred to the K3S's "built-in
sound card", which I didn't think was correct. But reading Fred's K3
book (p.165) I get the impression that this is indeed the case,
presumably eliminating all the fiddling with audio interfacing and level
tweaking that would be necessary if using either the PC's sound card, or
an external unit like the SignalLink USB.
Am I correct so far?
So then fig 10-14 (Fred's book) gives me the impression that with this
hookup, I can then run any RTTY software on the PC and the PC to K3S
interfacing is all taken care of, right?

TIA
Don K2BIO

On 03/08/2017 05:13 PM, ab4iqkf4cxo wrote:

> I use the USB port on my to K3S's and MMTTY couldn't be simpler.
>
> ED.. AB4IQ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don
> Pomplun
> Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 11:11 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3S's built-in RTTY
>
> I've just started playing with RTTY with my K3S using the "built-in"
> capabilities for decoding and the Utility program. I'm still at the stage
> of fiddling with the little lines to tune in a RTTY signal properly.
>
> For you experienced RTTY'ers, is the built-in capability considered on a par
> with using a separate sound card interface and separate RTTY PC software, or
> is it just a nice beginner's intro?
>
> 73,
>
> Don K2BIO
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>

Barry K3NDM

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

Don,

Your inference is right on. You CAN run any digital software that
will play with a USB external sound card. The card in the K3s will show
up as an external card. That is exactly what I do and is one of the
reasons I bought my K3s. I freed up some desk space by not having to
continue to use my SignaLink USB.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

------ Original Message ------
From: "Don Pomplun" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: 3/8/2017 6:18:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S's built-in RTTY

>TNX for all the helpful replies. A few referred to the K3S's "built-in
>sound card", which I didn't think was correct. But reading Fred's K3
>book (p.165) I get the impression that this is indeed the case,
>presumably eliminating all the fiddling with audio interfacing and
>level tweaking that would be necessary if using either the PC's sound
>card, or an external unit like the SignalLink USB.
>Am I correct so far?
>So then fig 10-14 (Fred's book) gives me the impression that with this
>hookup, I can then run any RTTY software on the PC and the PC to K3S
>interfacing is all taken care of, right?
>
>TIA
>Don K2BIO
>
>
>
>On 03/08/2017 05:13 PM, ab4iqkf4cxo wrote:
>>I use the USB port on my to K3S's and MMTTY couldn't be simpler.
>>
>>ED.. AB4IQ
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>>Don
>>Pomplun
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 11:11 AM
>>To: [hidden email]
>>Subject: [Elecraft] K3S's built-in RTTY
>>
>>I've just started playing with RTTY with my K3S using the "built-in"
>>capabilities for decoding and the Utility program. I'm still at the
>>stage
>>of fiddling with the little lines to tune in a RTTY signal properly.
>>
>>For you experienced RTTY'ers, is the built-in capability considered on
>>a par
>>with using a separate sound card interface and separate RTTY PC
>>software, or
>>is it just a nice beginner's intro?
>>
>>73,
>>
>>Don K2BIO
>>
>>______________________________________________________________
>>Elecraft mailing list
>>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>Message
>>delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>______________________________________________________________
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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

In reply to this post by Don23805

Yes. RTTY, or PSK-31, or JT65, or JT9, or AX.25, or Throb, or Olivia,
or MFSK-16, or.....

73 -- Lynn

On 3/8/2017 3:18 PM, Don Pomplun wrote:
> So then fig 10-14 (Fred's book) gives me the impression that with this
> hookup, I can then run any RTTY software on the PC and the PC to K3S
> interfacing is all taken care of, right?

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Don Wilhelm

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

In reply to this post by Don23805

Don,

The K3S built in soundcard will relieve you from the cabling problems
associated with an external soundcard (or Signalink which is actually a
single channel external soundcard).

It will not relieve you of the "level tweaking" because the K3S CODEC is
nothing more than a soundcard built into the K3S - the same audio level
adjustments that would be used for another external (or internal)
soundcard still have to be manipulated. To the computer, the K3S
internal soundcard is "just another external (to the computer) soundcard".

The terminology depends on whether you are looking at it from the
computer side or the K3S side.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/8/2017 6:18 PM, Don Pomplun wrote:
> TNX for all the helpful replies. A few referred to the K3S's "built-in
> sound card", which I didn't think was correct. But reading Fred's K3
> book (p.165) I get the impression that this is indeed the case,
> presumably eliminating all the fiddling with audio interfacing and level
> tweaking that would be necessary if using either the PC's sound card, or
> an external unit like the SignalLink USB.
> Am I correct so far?
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Don Wilhelm

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

In reply to this post by Don23805

Actually, the K3 has isolation for the Line In and Line Out signals, and
no interface is required for digital modes. Just a computer soundcard
and good quality audio cables so they do not pick up hum, buzz and
noise. PTT is not required either, use VOX. Actually, the Signalink
PTT is derived from the audio stream - so in effect, the Signalink has
its own simplistic VOX which activates its PTT output.

For those using the K3, get an external soundcard, even an inexpensive
one and use the K3's VOX - it will perform better and with lower noise
than the Signalink.

For the K3S and a K3 that has the new KIO3B option installed, everything
is the same, except the "external soundcard" (as seen by the computer
application) is built into the K3/K3S and no audio cables are involved.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/8/2017 6:18 PM, Don Pomplun wrote:
like the SignalLink USB.
> Am I correct so far?
> So then fig 10-14 (Fred's book) gives me the impression that with this
> hookup, I can then run any RTTY software on the PC and the PC to K3S
> interfacing is all taken care of, right?
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

> For those using the K3, get an external soundcard, even an inexpensive
> one and use the K3's VOX - it will perform better and with lower noise
> than the Signalink.

And it will not require that the sound car transmit level be turned to
the maximum as is the case with Signalink (read their instructions).
By running the sound card transmit level at no more than 80% the TX
audio is generally *significantly* cleaner because the sound card audio
chain is not being driven into clipping.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 3/8/2017 6:50 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Actually, the K3 has isolation for the Line In and Line Out signals, and
> no interface is required for digital modes. Just a computer soundcard
> and good quality audio cables so they do not pick up hum, buzz and
> noise. PTT is not required either, use VOX. Actually, the Signalink
> PTT is derived from the audio stream - so in effect, the Signalink has
> its own simplistic VOX which activates its PTT output.
>
> For those using the K3, get an external soundcard, even an inexpensive
> one and use the K3's VOX - it will perform better and with lower noise
> than the Signalink.
>
> For the K3S and a K3 that has the new KIO3B option installed, everything
> is the same, except the "external soundcard" (as seen by the computer
> application) is built into the K3/K3S and no audio cables are involved.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 3/8/2017 6:18 PM, Don Pomplun wrote:
> like the SignalLink USB.
>> Am I correct so far?
>> So then fig 10-14 (Fred's book) gives me the impression that with this
>> hookup, I can then run any RTTY software on the PC and the PC to K3S
>> interfacing is all taken care of, right?
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Don23805

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

I'm hoping hat I can use the K3S sound card hardware & PC software for
the receive side, and use the paddle CW interface as the transmit side.
Any experience in the group with doing that?

Don K2BIO

On 03/08/2017 07:54 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> > For those using the K3, get an external soundcard, even an inexpensive
> > one and use the K3's VOX - it will perform better and with lower noise
> > than the Signalink.
>
> And it will not require that the sound car transmit level be turned to
> the maximum as is the case with Signalink (read their instructions).
> By running the sound card transmit level at no more than 80% the TX
> audio is generally *significantly* cleaner because the sound card audio
> chain is not being driven into clipping.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 3/8/2017 6:50 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Actually, the K3 has isolation for the Line In and Line Out signals, and
>> no interface is required for digital modes. Just a computer soundcard
>> and good quality audio cables so they do not pick up hum, buzz and
>> noise. PTT is not required either, use VOX. Actually, the Signalink
>> PTT is derived from the audio stream - so in effect, the Signalink has
>> its own simplistic VOX which activates its PTT output.
>>
>> For those using the K3, get an external soundcard, even an inexpensive
>> one and use the K3's VOX - it will perform better and with lower noise
>> than the Signalink.
>>
>> For the K3S and a K3 that has the new KIO3B option installed, everything
>> is the same, except the "external soundcard" (as seen by the computer
>> application) is built into the K3/K3S and no audio cables are involved.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 3/8/2017 6:18 PM, Don Pomplun wrote:
>> like the SignalLink USB.
>>> Am I correct so far?
>>> So then fig 10-14 (Fred's book) gives me the impression that with this
>>> hookup, I can then run any RTTY software on the PC and the PC to K3S
>>> interfacing is all taken care of, right?
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Jim Brown-10

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

I can tell you that being on the other side of that kind of QSO can be
painful, even with something as simple as a contest exchange. From that
point of view, the paddle is acceptable only if you can send about as
fast as RTTY. Not a lot of hams can. :)

73, Jim K9YC

On Wed,3/8/2017 7:42 PM, Don Pomplun wrote:
> I'm hoping hat I can use the K3S sound card hardware & PC software for
> the receive side, and use the paddle CW interface as the transmit
> side. Any experience in the group with doing that?

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Ed Muns

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

In reply to this post by Don23805

This RTTY system configuration is the worst one I can think of (sorry!).
The RTTY receive will be great for you and transmit will be greatly
compromised, for both you and your QSO partners. Once you have a PC/modem
interfaced to the K3S for receive it is trivial to use it for transmit as
well. The whole reason for the Elecraft built-in feature is for
configurations where there is no PC and RTTY modem.

The Elecraft CW-RTTY feature is a tremendous benefit for working one or, at
most, a very few contacts without the complication of a PC and RTTY modem
hardware or software. The caveat is few people can send good CW at 60 WPM
so the copy by the QSO partner will be frustratingly slow.

In a contest, for a few contacts, this feature can work well using the K3S
CW/RTTY memories as long as the contest exchange is not unique, e.g., serial
numbers. You can have one message with your call sign for answering CQing
stations and second message with your exchange. You just press the K3S
message buttons and the RTTY is sent out at the normal 60 wpm.

Ed W0YK
______________________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don
Pomplun
Sent: 08 March, 2017 19:43
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S's built-in RTTY

I'm hoping hat I can use the K3S sound card hardware & PC software for
the receive side, and use the paddle CW interface as the transmit side.
Any experience in the group with doing that?

Don K2BIO

On 03/08/2017 07:54 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

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Don23805

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Thanx for all the good points raised for this RTTY-wannabee, morphing
from CW. I always get Fred's books even before buying the Elecraft
hardware, but even with his excellent explanations of the terse official
manuals, digital mode use is still a lot of digestion. e.g., it was
only yesterday that it became obvious that the K3S has its own sound
card built in (I think I'm right). I draw the analogy between the K3 and
what was said of Mozart: '"too many notes".

Don K2BIO

> On Wed,3/8/2017 7:42 PM, Don Pomplun wrote:
>> I'm hoping hat I can use the K3S sound card hardware & PC software
>> for the receive side, and use the paddle CW interface as the transmit
>> side. Any experience in the group with doing that?
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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Don Wilhelm

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

Don,

I think the use of the K3/K3S on digital modes is easy. If you are
using soundcard digital modes, put the K3/K3S into DATA A mode, and
adjust the soundcard output level to about 75%. Change the MIC SEL to LINE.
You connect the soundcard line out (Spkr) to the K3 LINE IN and the
soundcard line in to the K3 LINE OUT. If you are using the K3S internal
soundcard, those cables are not used. Make certain there is nothing
connected to the K3S LINE IN jack.

Adjust the K3 LINE level ("MIC GAIN") to produce 4 bars solid with the
5th bar flashing on the ALC meter while your digital mode application is
'transmitting'. You can put the K3 into TX TEST for that adjustment so
you do not emit any RF.

If you are doing RTTY, use the AFSK A data submode, it defaults to LSB.
DATA A defaults to USB.

The major problem with folks starting out in digital modes is not with
the radio, but with the digital mode application. It requires setup,
selection of the COM port, selection of the right soundcard, the correct
rig, and other settings. So refer to the instructions for whatever
software you are using.
If those instructions tell you to set the radio's power to full and use
the audio level to adjust the power output, ignore that (and similar
internet advice) - that does not work well with Elecraft gear, use the
information given above to set the audio level and set the desired power
with the power knob.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/9/2017 9:13 AM, Don Pomplun wrote:
> Thanx for all the good points raised for this RTTY-wannabee, morphing
> from CW. I always get Fred's books even before buying the Elecraft
> hardware, but even with his excellent explanations of the terse official
> manuals, digital mode use is still a lot of digestion. e.g., it was
> only yesterday that it became obvious that the K3S has its own sound
> card built in (I think I'm right). I draw the analogy between the K3 and
> what was said of Mozart: '"too many notes".
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Shel Radin KF0UR

Re: K3S's built-in RTTY

In reply to this post by Don23805

Hi Don,

If you're not using a PC, another option you have is to use the QRPworks
K-Board. It was made exactly for this operation.

You can send RTTY, PSK, or CW with a wireless or wired keyboard.

You can send 20 messages or macros to control the rig. 200 named messages /
macros can be defined in named groups of 20 (Field Day, NAQP, etc.) using
the provided Message Management Utility.

The manual is online at www.qrpworks.com <http://www.qrpworks.com> . Click
on Support.

And if you want to see the incoming text on a bigger screen, the SideKar is
available.

73,

Shel KF0UR

QRPworks

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 22:42 <calendar:T7:Wed,%208%20Mar%202017%2022:42> :43
-0500
From: Don Pomplun <[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]> >
To: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S's built-in RTTY
Message-ID: <[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

I'm hoping that I can use the K3S sound card hardware & PC software for
the receive side, and use the paddle CW interface as the transmit side.
Any experience in the group with doing that?

Don K2BIO

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