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K3V - another new product speculation

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K7TV

K3V - another new product speculation

Having just stuffed another few options into my K3, with predictably
gratifying result, my thoughts naturally go to what the next step might be.
Let's see. P3: would be nice, but when I had an LP-Pan I hardly used it.
Also: no room on the shelf. KPA500: Again, no room unless I decided to
retire my full power amp. I could make room by retiring my spare rig, a
TS-570S, which would make room for e.g. the KPA500, but I like to have a
spare HF rig, as any rig can fail. I could retire my 2m ssb/cw rig, an
ancient TR-9000 and replace it with an Elecraft internal transverter, but
that unit seems too much like an afterthought designed for the casual user.
When it comes to weak signal VHF/UHF I would like to see an architecture
that supports remote preamps and separate feedlines for receive and
transmit. Also on the possible wish list: a full set of VHF/UHF bands and
sophisticated support for satellite use. I could replace the spare HF rig
with a dedicated VHF/UHF multiband rig with satellite capabilities and no
spare HF capability (or at least not a very good one). The new product
suggestion: A new main branch on the K3 tree of options. I would replace the
spare HF rig with a K3/10, and Elecraft would make a new set of internal 2m,
70cm and 1296 transverters that could all be mounted internally, taking up
the space otherwise used by 2nd RX, 100W PA, tuner. These would be high end
transverters, with the very best flexibility of antenna hookups, killer
firmware support for satellite, etc. Disclaimers: I have not thought about
how the module interconnections would work, and I might not buy this stuff
on day one, but on the face of it, it would solve some problems. I would
have a far better HF backup rig, and great capability on more VHF/UHF bands.
And the space now taken up by the 2m rig would be available for a P3, or a
????

73,

Erik K7TV

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John KLim

Re: K3V - another new product speculation

Erik

The first thing you need to do is to redesign your shack to cover the
addition of new equipment both ham and computer. I wish you good luck!

73 ES CUL DE N3KHK
================================================
John R. Klim II
ARRL LM, AMSAT LM
10-10: 68135
30MDG: 1820
QSL: LoTW, Bureau, Direct, eQSL as a courtesy

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Erik Basilier
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 3:56 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3V - another new product speculation

Having just stuffed another few options into my K3, with predictably
gratifying result, my thoughts naturally go to what the next step might be.
Let's see. P3: would be nice, but when I had an LP-Pan I hardly used it.
Also: no room on the shelf. KPA500: Again, no room unless I decided to
retire my full power amp. I could make room by retiring my spare rig, a
TS-570S, which would make room for e.g. the KPA500, but I like to have a
spare HF rig, as any rig can fail. I could retire my 2m ssb/cw rig, an
ancient TR-9000 and replace it with an Elecraft internal transverter, but
that unit seems too much like an afterthought designed for the casual user.
When it comes to weak signal VHF/UHF I would like to see an architecture
that supports remote preamps and separate feedlines for receive and
transmit. Also on the possible wish list: a full set of VHF/UHF bands and
sophisticated support for satellite use. I could replace the spare HF rig
with a dedicated VHF/UHF multiband rig with satellite capabilities and no
spare HF capability (or at least not a very good one). The new product
suggestion: A new main branch on the K3 tree of options. I would replace the
spare HF rig with a K3/10, and Elecraft would make a new set of internal 2m,
70cm and 1296 transverters that could all be mounted internally, taking up
the space otherwise used by 2nd RX, 100W PA, tuner. These would be high end
transverters, with the very best flexibility of antenna hookups, killer
firmware support for satellite, etc. Disclaimers: I have not thought about
how the module interconnections would work, and I might not buy this stuff
on day one, but on the face of it, it would solve some problems. I would
have a far better HF backup rig, and great capability on more VHF/UHF bands.
And the space now taken up by the 2m rig would be available for a P3, or a
????

73,

Erik K7TV

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ac0h

Re: K3V - another new product speculation

In reply to this post by K7TV

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I've always thought that Elecraft should come out with a VHF/UHF all
mode rig based on the K3.

Yes, I know about the outboard transverters but I'm talking about some
thing like the old Yaesu FT-736 or Icom IC-910 based on the K3.

I've never liked the FT-847 or TS-2000 approach of stuffing a radio with
DC to daylight. If something goes wrong with the rig you lose both HF
and VHF/UHF.

Elecraft has all the parts sitting in stock. Use the guts of the
transverters and integrate them into a K3 sized box with the same DSP
and control boards. Getting 100W out on 2m/70cm will need a new PA
design (50V???).

I guarantee it's more complicated than that and it's not something that
I'd want Elecraft to waste time doing if it means putting something "K3"
on the back burner. It all depends on if there's a market niche that
needs filling. I think there is but could be wrong.

- --
R. Kevin Stover

ACØH
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Guy, K2AV

Re: K3V - another new product speculation

Wayne is going to have to see some demand out there. Any of these
generate the same kind of interest as KRX3 or KPA500 or KAT500? 73,
Guy.

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 10:05 AM, R. Kevin Stover <[hidden email]> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I've always thought that Elecraft should come out with a VHF/UHF all
> mode rig based on the K3.
>
> Yes, I know about the outboard transverters but I'm talking about some
> thing like the old Yaesu FT-736 or Icom IC-910 based on the K3.
>
> I've never liked the FT-847 or TS-2000 approach of stuffing a radio with
> DC to daylight. If something goes wrong with the rig you lose both HF
> and VHF/UHF.
>
> Elecraft has all the parts sitting in stock. Use the guts of the
> transverters and integrate them into a K3 sized box with the same DSP
> and control boards. Getting 100W out on 2m/70cm will need a new PA
> design (50V???).
>
> I guarantee it's more complicated than that and it's not something that
> I'd want Elecraft to waste time doing if it means putting something "K3"
> on the back burner. It all depends on if there's a market niche that
> needs filling. I think there is but could be wrong.
>
>
> - --
> R. Kevin Stover
>
> ACØH
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> ______________________________________________________________
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Dale Parfitt-3

Re: K3V - another new product speculation

In reply to this post by ac0h

That is an extremely small market. There is a reason the rigs you mentioned
are no longer around. Serious ops go the transverter route.

Dale W4OP

----- Original Message -----
From: "R. Kevin Stover" <[hidden email]>
To: "Erik Basilier" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3V - another new product speculation

John Ragle

Re: K3 - new product "demand"

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

INTRO: I am a past K2/100 Kit (fully fleshed out--the K2, not me) owner,
and a present K3/100 FB owner, with also the XV144 outboard unit. Also
in the stable is an ICOM IC-910H. The K3 6 meter section is fleshed out
with a TE0552G, and the 910 works into a TE1452G. So I have 100 watts on
HF and ~300 on 6 and 2 meters. The 910 also provides 432 MHz, but at
lower wattage. It also has a serious hearing problem on 432, and I use a
GaAsFET preamp on the mast at the antenna. This is more or less a stable
station configuration for me. I would guess that it may be my last, but
perhaps in 3-5 years I would be willing to contemplate upgrading...

Now: IF'N I had to do it over again, and was faced with some new or
nascent Elecraft choices, e.g. the KPA500/KAT500, a built-in 144 and 432
section with at least transverter drive power, what would I choose?

WOULD NOTS:

]I definitely WOULD NOT choose the KPA500. 500 watts is just too much
for HF, unless one only operates SSB or AM. I WOULD NOT choose the P3 --
for most of my operating, the narrow FLDIGI window of 4 kHz or
SpectraVue is quite adequate. I definitely WOULD NOT choose an internal
power supply.

WOULDS:

IMHO the 100-watt K3 is just fine for HF. I have never found a CW pileup
I couldn't work through (it is just a matter of patience and timing). My
"gain" comes from a proper antenna.

I WOULD choose an internal 20-25 watt level for 144 MHz and 432 MHz.
Especially at 432, IF a power level of a few hundred watts were the
target, construction/design techniques are enough different that they
would add substantially to the volume of "stuff" in the K3 box. 20-25
watts is plenty to drive simple 13 dB (20X) post-amps...barring
spectacular openings, IMHO the requirements for effective communication
at VHF and UHF are somewhat higher than at HF, probably simply because
there is more of a tendency to use voice modes.

Because of line losses, at 432 MHz one is probably better off with a
mast-mounted GaAsFET preamp. I think that ICOM faced exactly this
question with the 910H, and answered it by producing just such a
companion unit. There is a problem with the GaAsFET preamps in the TE
Systems amps...they are not protected in any way against high power RF,
and I roasted my 144 MHz preamp with output from my 6 meter set-up (mea
culpa).

SUMMARY:

I think the K3/100 with ATU and interface is simply the best rig I've
ever owned. It does marvelous QSK, and with FLDIGI and the SignaLink-USB
it does a superb job with other digital modes. I wish it had internal
provisions for 20-25 watt output at 2 and 3/4 meters. The internal ~9
watt units are just not enough, and the 144 MHz K144XV unit I installed
did not work properly anyhow. (That issue was admirably met by Elecraft;
I was not the only one to have trouble with this unit, which has already
been adequately discussed on the reflector.) I have no techno-lust for
the KPA amp (leave it to 'phone ops) or the P3.

WRT 432 MHz, it is looking like we may lose that band anyhow, to
ill-thought-out & incompetent governance (more's the pity). This has
taken the edge off my interest in 432, even though I have 50 watts to a
big Yagi on the band. Thus, for a plain-vanilla ham like me, 160 through
2 meter coverage would be nice...power levels as mentioned above.

John Ragle--W1ZI

=====

On 4/9/2011 10:12 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> Wayne is going to have to see some demand out there. Any of these
> generate the same kind of interest as KRX3 or KPA500 or KAT500? 73,
> Guy.
>
> On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 10:05 AM, R. Kevin Stover<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I've always thought that Elecraft should come out with a VHF/UHF all
>> mode rig based on the K3.
>>
>> Yes, I know about the outboard transverters but I'm talking about some
>> thing like the old Yaesu FT-736 or Icom IC-910 based on the K3.
>>
>> I've never liked the FT-847 or TS-2000 approach of stuffing a radio with
>> DC to daylight. If something goes wrong with the rig you lose both HF
>> and VHF/UHF.
>>
>> Elecraft has all the parts sitting in stock. Use the guts of the
>> transverters and integrate them into a K3 sized box with the same DSP
>> and control boards. Getting 100W out on 2m/70cm will need a new PA
>> design (50V???).
>>
>> I guarantee it's more complicated than that and it's not something that
>> I'd want Elecraft to waste time doing if it means putting something "K3"
>> on the back burner. It all depends on if there's a market niche that
>> needs filling. I think there is but could be wrong.
>>
>>
>> - --
>> R. Kevin Stover

ac0h

Re: K3V - another new product speculation

In reply to this post by Dale Parfitt-3

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 4/9/2011 9:37 AM, Dale Parfitt wrote:
> That is an extremely small market. There is a reason the rigs you
> mentioned are no longer around. Serious ops go the transverter route.
>
> Dale W4OP

Satellite users don't and I'm sure if some of the "serious" microwave
ops had a choice of using 2m or 70cm in a K3V/U as an IF rather than 10m
or daisy chained tranverters, they'd jump in a heartbeat.

I also think there's a certain amount of transverter snobbery with the
"serious" ops. "Those V/UHF rigs can't be nearly as good as my $1400
German transverter". Back 20 years ago that may have been true. A K3V/U
might win that argument today.

- --
R. Kevin Stover

ACØH
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alsopb

Re: K3 - new product "demand"

In reply to this post by John Ragle

On 4/9/2011 15:23, John Ragle wrote:

> WOULD NOTS:
>
>I definitely WOULD NOT choose the KPA500. 500 watts is just too much
> for HF, unless one only operates SSB or AM.

I don't think the majority of contesters and DXer K3 owners agree with you.

73 de Brian/K3KO

-----
No virus found in this message.
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John Lemay

Re: K3V - another new product speculation

In reply to this post by Dale Parfitt-3

Serious ops go the transverter route because rigs such as the 847 and 2000
are a compromise, and in particular because their performance on the vhf /
uhf bands is not too good - poor dynamic range, reciprocal mixing issues
etc.

John
G4ZTR

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dale Parfitt
Sent: 09 April 2011 15:38
To: R. Kevin Stover; Erik Basilier
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3V - another new product speculation

That is an extremely small market. There is a reason the rigs you mentioned
are no longer around. Serious ops go the transverter route.

Dale W4OP

----- Original Message -----
From: "R. Kevin Stover" <[hidden email]>
To: "Erik Basilier" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3V - another new product speculation

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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02:34:00

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w0mu

Re: K3 - new product "demand"

In reply to this post by alsopb

We are waiting for the KPA5000 er KPA1500

On 4/9/11 9:45 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:

> On 4/9/2011 15:23, John Ragle wrote:
>
>> WOULD NOTS:
>>
>> I definitely WOULD NOT choose the KPA500. 500 watts is just too much
>> for HF, unless one only operates SSB or AM.
> I don't think the majority of contesters and DXer K3 owners agree with you.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3560 - Release Date: 04/08/11
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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K7TV

Re: K3V - another new product speculation

In reply to this post by ac0h

Kevin, for me personally it would be a plus to have HF 10W in there as a
backup to the main HF rig, but it wouldn't have to be a mandatory
ingredient. It could be another option along with the various VHF/UHF bands.
Why, if we were to lose 70 cm (let's not be pessimistic and assume that we
will) then someone might want to get the HF 10 W option to take its place in
the box.
Also, lots of hams start out from the VHF/UHF side and add HF as they
upgrade licenses. If I were in that situation, a K3V/U would look a lot
better than say an ICOM 910H because I wouldn't have to get a whole new rig
for HF. Of course, I'd be looking at the rigs that have all the bands from
the start, but the K3V/U would not have the compromises inherent in those
rigs, and by starting with only say 2m and no HF, the price might not be too
bad. I think it all comes down to the question: Are those beginners educated
enough to understand the huge advantage of having a K3 base platform
compared to say an IC-746?

73,
Erik K7TV

-----Original Message-----
From: R. Kevin Stover [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 7:06 AM
To: Erik Basilier
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3V - another new product speculation

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I've always thought that Elecraft should come out with a VHF/UHF all mode
rig based on the K3.

Yes, I know about the outboard transverters but I'm talking about some thing
like the old Yaesu FT-736 or Icom IC-910 based on the K3.

I've never liked the FT-847 or TS-2000 approach of stuffing a radio with DC
to daylight. If something goes wrong with the rig you lose both HF and
VHF/UHF.

Elecraft has all the parts sitting in stock. Use the guts of the
transverters and integrate them into a K3 sized box with the same DSP and
control boards. Getting 100W out on 2m/70cm will need a new PA design
(50V???).

I guarantee it's more complicated than that and it's not something that I'd
want Elecraft to waste time doing if it means putting something "K3"
on the back burner. It all depends on if there's a market niche that needs
filling. I think there is but could be wrong.

- --
R. Kevin Stover

ACØH
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John Ragle

Re: K3 - new product "demand"

In reply to this post by alsopb

100 watts to 500 watts is ~7 dB, or just about an S-unit. 7 dB is the
difference between a dipole and a tribander. Clearly there has been a
super amount of interest in the KPA500, and just as clearly, 1500 watts
and a 6-element beam at 90 feet will work to rule. This argument has
been made and remade so many times it is as bad as republicans vs
democrats. I wish Elecraft all the best, but it is just not my choice to
go this route. High leather boots are great in snake country, but so is
a quick eye.

John Ragle -- W1ZI

=====

On 4/9/2011 11:45 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:

> On 4/9/2011 15:23, John Ragle wrote:
>> WOULD NOTS:
>>
>> I definitely WOULD NOT choose the KPA500. 500 watts is just too much
>> for HF, unless one only operates SSB or AM.
> I don't think the majority of contesters and DXer K3 owners agree with you.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Eugene Balinski

Re: K3V - another new product speculation

In reply to this post by John Lemay

Agree.

As for new products, I would still like to see a K2A - a
ruggedized K2 update with a K3-esq receiver architecture.

73
K1NR

On Sat, 9 Apr 2011 16:51:09 +0100
"John Lemay" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Serious ops go the transverter route because rigs such as
> the 847 and 2000
> are a compromise, and in particular because their
> performance on the vhf /
> uhf bands is not too good - poor dynamic range,
> reciprocal mixing issues
> etc.
>
> John
> G4ZTR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Dale Parfitt
> Sent: 09 April 2011 15:38
> To: R. Kevin Stover; Erik Basilier
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3V - another new product
> speculation
>
> That is an extremely small market. There is a reason the
> rigs you mentioned
> are no longer around. Serious ops go the transverter
> route.
>
> Dale W4OP
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "R. Kevin Stover" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Erik Basilier" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3V - another new product
> speculation
>
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > I've always thought that Elecraft should come out with
> a VHF/UHF all
> > mode rig based on the K3.
> >
> > Yes, I know about the outboard transverters but I'm
> talking about some
> > thing like the old Yaesu FT-736 or Icom IC-910 based on
> the K3.
> >
> > I've never liked the FT-847 or TS-2000 approach of
> stuffing a radio with
> > DC to daylight. If something goes wrong with the rig
> you lose both HF
> > and VHF/UHF.
> >
> > Elecraft has all the parts sitting in stock. Use the
> guts of the
> > transverters and integrate them into a K3 sized box
> with the same DSP
> > and control boards. Getting 100W out on 2m/70cm will
> need a new PA
> > design (50V???).
> >
> > I guarantee it's more complicated than that and it's
> not something that
> > I'd want Elecraft to waste time doing if it means
> putting something "K3"
> > on the back burner. It all depends on if there's a
> market niche that
> > needs filling. I think there is but could be wrong.
> >
> >
> > - --
> > R. Kevin Stover
> >
> > ACØH
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32)
> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla -
> http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
> >
> >
>

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>
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> >
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> >
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> > =gxQh
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
> >
>
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Gary Gregory

Re: K3 - new product "demand"

In reply to this post by John Ragle

Purely from a VK perspective:

Many times we hear stations from the US calling DX with their beam heading
to VK. Whilst their signal is in the S7 - S9+ we answer the call only to get
reports of S2-S5 with QSB.

We are then proudly told they are using 'Legal Limit' and a 3 element
tri-bander at 50ft.

Now VK3MO is in Melbourne with a stack 5 over 5 over 5 over 5 Yagi's on 20M
with 200W and is told he is 59+ almost every day.

>From what I have heard emphasis is placed on having a signal report of 59 or
better and the high output amplifiers are increasingly being used for a one
way signal and a lot of us forget about improving our own receive abilities.

With a legal limit of 400W in VK, many of us 'creep' up the power with HF
amplifiers and of course we all say we are running 400W so the RF policeman
is happy...he knows the truth of course...but leaves us alone providing we
do not interfere with 'other' users.

The argument will go on for eternity is my guess.

>From purely my perspective and now experience, I am finding the KPA-500 has
done a great job for me this past month. I have worked into EU and the US
and during many qso's I turned the KPA-500 to bypass and collected reports.
My focus was NOT on signal strength, but rather on the copy and I paid
attention to those that I had to repeat myself to better get a handle on how
my signal was doing.

The results have been as I expected, the KPA-500 gave me what I needed to
work DX that I could hear 55 to 58...I work on the assumption that if the
signal I am hearing is 'good copy' then with the 400W we are legally able to
use I should be able to work that station without too much difficulty. The
DX station suffering QRM from nearby frequencies is going to have that issue
no matter who he works and either they need to move frequency or improve
their station receive capability.I hope the readers on this list do not take
my comments to heart as I do not mean everyone, just that I am hearing more
and more distorted signals than a month or so ago as propagation has
improved and to some degree the signal quality can be altered by not paying
attention to the adjustment of the transmit audio to ensure a clean signal.

I have received some really excellent reports on my signal and of course
this makes one proud. To be told your signal is superb does give one a
swelled head...:-)

To compare the KPA-500 @ $2,000 against a PW-1 here in VK at $8,000 is
perhaps unfair but the reality is that is the price we have to pay in VK.

As a portable operation I am unable to 'carry' a huge amplifier due to space
and my ability to lift it becomes a huge issue also.

I was keen to see the KPA-800 with auto-tune included, but, the KPA-500 plus
the soon to be released KAT-500 (remote version) is a perfect fit for me. I
understand that this would not suit everyone, but from Elecrafts position II
am sure they hope the majority of us will be satisfied.

Well done Eric, Wayne and the team at Elecraft for bringing to market a very
good product.

73's to all

Gary

On 10 April 2011 04:47, John Ragle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 100 watts to 500 watts is ~7 dB, or just about an S-unit. 7 dB is the
> difference between a dipole and a tribander. Clearly there has been a
> super amount of interest in the KPA500, and just as clearly, 1500 watts
> and a 6-element beam at 90 feet will work to rule. This argument has
> been made and remade so many times it is as bad as republicans vs
> democrats. I wish Elecraft all the best, but it is just not my choice to
> go this route. High leather boots are great in snake country, but so is
> a quick eye.
>
> John Ragle -- W1ZI
>
> =====
>
> On 4/9/2011 11:45 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:
> > On 4/9/2011 15:23, John Ragle wrote:
> >> WOULD NOTS:
> >>
> >> I definitely WOULD NOT choose the KPA500. 500 watts is just too much
> >> for HF, unless one only operates SSB or AM.
> > I don't think the majority of contesters and DXer K3 owners agree with
> you.
> >
> > 73 de Brian/K3KO
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3560 - Release Date: 04/08/11
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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--

*VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
Elecraft Equipment
K3 #679, KPA-500 #018
Living the dream!!!*
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k6dgw

Re: K3 - new product "demand"

In reply to this post by John Ragle

On 4/9/2011 11:47 AM, John Ragle wrote:
> 100 watts to 500 watts is ~7 dB, or just about an S-unit. 7 dB is the
> difference between a dipole and a tribander. Clearly there has been a
> super amount of interest in the KPA500, and just as clearly, 1500 watts
> and a 6-element beam at 90 feet will work to rule. This argument has
> been made and remade so many times it is as bad as republicans vs
> democrats. I wish Elecraft all the best, but it is just not my choice to
> go this route. High leather boots are great in snake country, but so is
> a quick eye.

OK, and 100 W to 1,500 W is 11.76 dB, or just under 2 S-units. There
are many other factors that determine whether or not you get in the DX
log however, and I suspect transmit power is fairly low on the list.
Elevation angle of the main lobe of your antenna is probably a much
bigger factor. Skill and cunning may be up near the top too :-)

When all the KPA500 "announcing" started, I began running my KW amp at
500 watts to see if I could tell the difference in what I could work
over time. The only difference I could see was our electrical usage
dropped a little on contest weekends [we have one of those smart meters
and I can track our usage on-line].

I ordered my KPA500 kit last night. I want to be able to run 500 W with
full QSK, which I can't now.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011
- www.cqp.org
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Oliver Dröse

Re: K3V - another new product speculation

In reply to this post by ac0h

> That is an extremely small market. There is a reason the rigs you
> mentioned are no longer around. Serious ops go the transverter route.

The problem is that there are NO good VHF/UHF radios anymore! That's why the
serious OPs MUST go the transverter route. Believe me, there's quite some market
in Europe for really good VHF&up equipment. We have a high population density
here with lots of active stations. Especially during contests were the big guns
do > 1.000 QSOs alone on 2 m in a 24 h contest. Ever wondered why companies like
DB6NT technologies can sell monoband 20 W transverters for 1.400 EUR? Because
there is demand for extra-ordinary performance.

To my mind a "K3V" incl. 10, 6, 2 m with 100 W, crossband capability
(satellites) and with optional internal 70 & 23 cm and 4 m modules would be a
really good seller as long as it could be produced for a price as the stock K3 +
100 W amp ranges today. But surely the market is smaller than that for a K3 as
is today. External transverters are rather a pain, again some extra boxes,
cabling needed, a.s.o., not really portable/mobile friendly. Put it all into one
package and it will be a real plus.

Unfortunately this will never happen, I fear. :-((

Vy 73, Olli - DH8BQA

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K7TV

Re: K3V - another new product speculation

Olli,

I have personal experience in the past of how popular weak signal work on 2m
is in Europe.
Judging from QST columns there is also a lot of 2m dxing on the U.S. East
Coast.
So, there is definitely a significant market for good V/U gear, but I cannot
judge whether it is big enough by itself to be profitable.
My current personal perspective is a little different. My QTH is in Arizona.
Look at the diagrams of VHF DX QSO paths in QST. Almost never does such a
QSO involve Arizona. It must be the Rocky Mountains acting as a barrier. I
have decent 2m weak signal gear, but in practice it is quite useless because
there is noone to qso with, at least until the day I make a serious effort
at moonbounce. Not suggesting that my situation is typical of the
prospective market for a V/U rig, but I could not justify the purchase by
the V/U capability alone.
On the other hand, if the rig were a fully functional K3/10 capable of being
my all-band HF backup rig, then I could see maybe buying an optional, high
performance internal transverter or two as upgrades. It would have to be
high performance and high flexibility, not forcing me into single feedline
or RF switching of the mast mounted preamp. I reject the latter because it
usually limits max power, and maybe just because I am old school. The rig
might even have enhancements in the area of frequency accuracy, although
today's K3 already looks good in that respect. The transverters would
definitely need to put out enough power to drive kilowatt amplifiers.

73,
Erik K7TV

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Oliver "Olli" Dröse
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 1:04 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3V - another new product speculation

> That is an extremely small market. There is a reason the rigs you
> mentioned are no longer around. Serious ops go the transverter route.

The problem is that there are NO good VHF/UHF radios anymore! That's why the

serious OPs MUST go the transverter route. Believe me, there's quite some
market
in Europe for really good VHF&up equipment. We have a high population
density
here with lots of active stations. Especially during contests were the big
guns
do > 1.000 QSOs alone on 2 m in a 24 h contest. Ever wondered why companies
like
DB6NT technologies can sell monoband 20 W transverters for 1.400 EUR?
Because
there is demand for extra-ordinary performance.

To my mind a "K3V" incl. 10, 6, 2 m with 100 W, crossband capability
(satellites) and with optional internal 70 & 23 cm and 4 m modules would be
a
really good seller as long as it could be produced for a price as the stock
K3 +
100 W amp ranges today. But surely the market is smaller than that for a K3
as
is today. External transverters are rather a pain, again some extra boxes,
cabling needed, a.s.o., not really portable/mobile friendly. Put it all into
one
package and it will be a real plus.

Unfortunately this will never happen, I fear. :-((

Vy 73, Olli - DH8BQA

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