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K3s Internal Speaker

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Steve Ellington-2

K3s Internal Speaker

I've made 2 attempts to install a speaker in my new K3s but they bend like
butter and distort. I was very careful to use the fiber washers and to not
over tighten the bolts. The frame of the speaker can bent with 2 fingers!
I've never seen such a flimsy speaker.

I had a brand x speaker in the junk box that worked great but I wanted it
to be original especially since the speaker is necessary to hold down the
sub receiver's shield. The junk speaker worked fine while I awaited a
replacement but the new replacement did the same. Basically it is junk.
I wonder if they washers they sent are too thin?

I never use the internal speaker anyway but feel like it should at least
work.

Has anyone else noticed this? Otherwise I love the K3s!

Steve N4LQ
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wayne burdick

Re: K3s Internal Speaker

Administrator

Hi Steve,

Sorry to hear about this. I've never heard this complaint before (and there are tens of thousands of these speakers in use, in both the K3 and K3S). The frame should not bend if the correct fibre washers are used and the hardware is not over-tightened. I'll check with our manufacturing lead to see if the wrong ones were shipped.

I'll also check with our tech writer. Perhaps the instructions could be clarified.

The internal speaker is certainly of high quality, so I hope you can get one installed (I'm sure customer support will send another, given your issues). It has excellent sensitivity (95 dB SPL, due in part to the very large shielded magnet) and a wide frequency response range. Given the large top cover mounting surface, the internal speaker is quite loud, with a low natural resonance point.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Dec 5, 2015, at 11:59 AM, Steve Ellington <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I've made 2 attempts to install a speaker in my new K3s but they bend like
> butter and distort. I was very careful to use the fiber washers and to not
> over tighten the bolts. The frame of the speaker can bent with 2 fingers!
> I've never seen such a flimsy speaker.
>
> I had a brand x speaker in the junk box that worked great but I wanted it
> to be original especially since the speaker is necessary to hold down the
> sub receiver's shield. The junk speaker worked fine while I awaited a
> replacement but the new replacement did the same. Basically it is junk.
> I wonder if they washers they sent are too thin?
>
> I never use the internal speaker anyway but feel like it should at least
> work.
>
> Has anyone else noticed this? Otherwise I love the K3s!
>
> Steve N4LQ

Mike Maloney

Re: K3s Internal Speaker

I have an older K3 and a spare speaker (part #E850300). Its hard to imagine flange being bent with little 4-40 screws, BUT, in my assembly manual p52, last step above Figure 74,it states in BOLD lettering, "Do not tighten the screws enough to bend the speaker flanges!"
IF this were not an issue sometime in the past, one wonders why such a warning would be stated in bold letters?     Otherwise I find the little speaker to be as Wayne describes in his reply.   Steve could you really be the first out of so many thousands to actually bend the flanges?
73,MikeAC5P

On Saturday, December 5, 2015 2:11 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Steve,

Sorry to hear about this. I've never heard this complaint before (and there are tens of thousands of these speakers in use, in both the K3 and K3S). The frame should not bend if the correct fibre washers are used and the hardware is not over-tightened. I'll check with our manufacturing lead to see if the wrong ones were shipped.

I'll also check with our tech writer. Perhaps the instructions could be clarified.

The internal speaker is certainly of high quality, so I hope you can get one installed (I'm sure customer support will send another, given your issues). It has excellent sensitivity (95 dB SPL, due in part to the very large shielded magnet) and a wide frequency response range. Given the large top cover mounting surface, the internal speaker is quite loud, with a low natural resonance point.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Dec 5, 2015, at 11:59 AM, Steve Ellington <[hidden email]> wrote:

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Steve Ellington-2

Re: K3s Internal Speaker

Mike
Trust me....I was very gentle, especially the second time around.

The cardboard trim around the speakers is thicker than the fiber washers
therefore the speaker ears do tend to bend.
The washers should be thicker or the speaker ring should be thinner.

Anyway....Leaving bolts this loose isn't good construction practice anyway.
Surely a better method of attaching a simple speaker to a piece of metal
can be found.

On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 4:35 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have an older K3 and a spare speaker (part #E850300). Its hard to
> imagine flange being bent with little 4-40 screws, BUT, in my assembly
> manual p52, last step above Figure 74,it states in BOLD lettering, "Do not
> tighten the screws enough to bend the speaker flanges!"
>
> IF this were not an issue sometime in the past, one wonders why such a
> warning would be stated in bold letters? Otherwise I find the little
> speaker to be as Wayne describes in his reply. Steve could you really be
> the first out of so many thousands to actually bend the flanges?
>
> 73,
> Mike
> AC5P
>
>
>
> On Saturday, December 5, 2015 2:11 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Sorry to hear about this. I've never heard this complaint before (and
> there are tens of thousands of these speakers in use, in both the K3 and
> K3S). The frame should not bend if the correct fibre washers are used and
> the hardware is not over-tightened. I'll check with our manufacturing lead
> to see if the wrong ones were shipped.
>
> I'll also check with our tech writer. Perhaps the instructions could be
> clarified.
>
> The internal speaker is certainly of high quality, so I hope you can get
> one installed (I'm sure customer support will send another, given your
> issues). It has excellent sensitivity (95 dB SPL, due in part to the very
> large shielded magnet) and a wide frequency response range. Given the large
> top cover mounting surface, the internal speaker is quite loud, with a low
> natural resonance point.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> On Dec 5, 2015, at 11:59 AM, Steve Ellington <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I've made 2 attempts to install a speaker in my new K3s but they bend
> like
> > butter and distort. I was very careful to use the fiber washers and to
> not
> > over tighten the bolts. The frame of the speaker can bent with 2 fingers!
> > I've never seen such a flimsy speaker.
> >
> > I had a brand x speaker in the junk box that worked great but I wanted it
> > to be original especially since the speaker is necessary to hold down the
> > sub receiver's shield. The junk speaker worked fine while I awaited a
> > replacement but the new replacement did the same. Basically it is junk.
> > I wonder if they washers they sent are too thin?
> >
> > I never use the internal speaker anyway but feel like it should at least
> > work.
> >
> > Has anyone else noticed this? Otherwise I love the K3s!
> >
> > Steve N4LQ
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3s Internal Speaker

In reply to this post by Mike Maloney

Mike,

That warning dates back to the early days of the K2. Originally no
fiber washers were provided, and several builders tightened the screws
excessively and deformed the speaker frame. That warning has been
present in manuals calling for mounting the speaker ever since.
The screws should be tightened securely, but not "beefed down" such as
to squeeze the fiber washers enough to deform them - and that will
deform the speaker frame.

Like Wayne, I have not heard of this problem with the K3 or the K3S and
have not heard of similar problems with the K2 after the fiber washers
were introduced. There is an occasional bad speaker encountered, so I
would tend to believe this is a "one-off" case of a bad speaker.

There *are* two different thicknesses of fiber washers used in Elecraft
kits. The thinner ones are used on the K2 PA mounting hardware, and the
thicker ones are used for mounting the speakers. Perhaps Steve was sent
the thinner fiber washers with his kit (that is only a guess on my part).

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/5/2015 4:35 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I have an older K3 and a spare speaker (part #E850300). Its hard to imagine flange being bent with little 4-40 screws, BUT, in my assembly manual p52, last step above Figure 74,it states in BOLD lettering, "Do not tighten the screws enough to bend the speaker flanges!"
> IF this were not an issue sometime in the past, one wonders why such a warning would be stated in bold letters? Otherwise I find the little speaker to be as Wayne describes in his reply. Steve could you really be the first out of so many thousands to actually bend the flanges?
> 73,MikeAC5P
>
>
> On Saturday, December 5, 2015 2:11 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Sorry to hear about this. I've never heard this complaint before (and there are tens of thousands of these speakers in use, in both the K3 and K3S). The frame should not bend if the correct fibre washers are used and the hardware is not over-tightened. I'll check with our manufacturing lead to see if the wrong ones were shipped.
>
> I'll also check with our tech writer. Perhaps the instructions could be clarified.
>
> The internal speaker is certainly of high quality, so I hope you can get one installed (I'm sure customer support will send another, given your issues). It has excellent sensitivity (95 dB SPL, due in part to the very large shielded magnet) and a wide frequency response range. Given the large top cover mounting surface, the internal speaker is quite loud, with a low natural resonance point.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>

Steve Ellington-2

Re: K3s Internal Speaker

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

People have been bolting speakers to face plates, grills, wood boxes and
panels for the past 75 years using wrenches, pliers and huge screwdrivers
and air powered drills and probably nails. Someone finally invented a way
to screw it up.

On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 4:59 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Steve. Ron (Tech writer) AC7AC here.
>
> After r/r the speaker in a K3, K3 and K3S many times, I have managed to
> make
> little dimples in the frame ears around the lock washers and nuts. But that
> does not damage the performance of the speaker.
>
> As you probably know, the distortion and buzzing occurs with the voice coil
> attached at the center of the cone rubs against the magnet. That happens
> when the entire frame is distorted.
>
> Such distortion can result from aggressively tightening the mounting screws
> so that the ring were the voice coil is attached is bent, which is why the
> warning in the assembly procedure. But it takes being very aggressive.
>
> It can happen as a result of handling too, particularly if the speaker is
> dropped, even when in its box. The magnet is heavy enough that it can bend
> the frame members supporting the magnet on impact. I did that once right on
> my workbench.
>
> It sounds like the factory accidentally may have sent you a defective
> speaker, since you obviously are aware of the distortion issue. Or it's
> possible the box containing the speaker was the victim of a shipping
> company
> "gorilla" dribbling it across the sorting table. Elecraft packages
> shipments
> very well, but I never underestimate the abilities of shipping companies,
> Hi!
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Wayne
> Burdick
> Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2015 12:11 PM
> To: Steve Ellington
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3s Internal Speaker
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Sorry to hear about this. I've never heard this complaint before (and there
> are tens of thousands of these speakers in use, in both the K3 and K3S).
> The
> frame should not bend if the correct fibre washers are used and the
> hardware
> is not over-tightened. I'll check with our manufacturing lead to see if the
> wrong ones were shipped.
>
> I'll also check with our tech writer. Perhaps the instructions could be
> clarified.
>
> The internal speaker is certainly of high quality, so I hope you can get
> one
> installed (I'm sure customer support will send another, given your issues).
> It has excellent sensitivity (95 dB SPL, due in part to the very large
> shielded magnet) and a wide frequency response range. Given the large top
> cover mounting surface, the internal speaker is quite loud, with a low
> natural resonance point.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> On Dec 5, 2015, at 11:59 AM, Steve Ellington <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I've made 2 attempts to install a speaker in my new K3s but they bend
> > like butter and distort. I was very careful to use the fiber washers
> > and to not over tighten the bolts. The frame of the speaker can bent with
> 2 fingers!
> > I've never seen such a flimsy speaker.
> >
> > I had a brand x speaker in the junk box that worked great but I wanted
> > it to be original especially since the speaker is necessary to hold
> > down the sub receiver's shield. The junk speaker worked fine while I
> > awaited a replacement but the new replacement did the same. Basically it
> is junk.
> > I wonder if they washers they sent are too thin?
> >
> > I never use the internal speaker anyway but feel like it should at
> > least work.
> >
> > Has anyone else noticed this? Otherwise I love the K3s!
> >
> > Steve N4LQ
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

wayne burdick

Re: K3s Internal Speaker

Administrator

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Thanks, Ron. I'm also going to look into the thickness of the fibre washers. They're supposed to be as tall as the cone to prevent bending.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Dec 5, 2015, at 1:59 PM, "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Steve. Ron (Tech writer) AC7AC here.
>
> After r/r the speaker in a K3, K3 and K3S many times, I have managed to make
> little dimples in the frame ears around the lock washers and nuts. But that
> does not damage the performance of the speaker.
>
> As you probably know, the distortion and buzzing occurs with the voice coil
> attached at the center of the cone rubs against the magnet. That happens
> when the entire frame is distorted.
>
> Such distortion can result from aggressively tightening the mounting screws
> so that the ring were the voice coil is attached is bent, which is why the
> warning in the assembly procedure. But it takes being very aggressive.
>
> It can happen as a result of handling too, particularly if the speaker is
> dropped, even when in its box. The magnet is heavy enough that it can bend
> the frame members supporting the magnet on impact. I did that once right on
> my workbench.
>
> It sounds like the factory accidentally may have sent you a defective
> speaker, since you obviously are aware of the distortion issue. Or it's
> possible the box containing the speaker was the victim of a shipping company
> "gorilla" dribbling it across the sorting table. Elecraft packages shipments
> very well, but I never underestimate the abilities of shipping companies,
> Hi!
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wayne
> Burdick
> Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2015 12:11 PM
> To: Steve Ellington
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3s Internal Speaker
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Sorry to hear about this. I've never heard this complaint before (and there
> are tens of thousands of these speakers in use, in both the K3 and K3S). The
> frame should not bend if the correct fibre washers are used and the hardware
> is not over-tightened. I'll check with our manufacturing lead to see if the
> wrong ones were shipped.
>
> I'll also check with our tech writer. Perhaps the instructions could be
> clarified.
>
> The internal speaker is certainly of high quality, so I hope you can get one
> installed (I'm sure customer support will send another, given your issues).
> It has excellent sensitivity (95 dB SPL, due in part to the very large
> shielded magnet) and a wide frequency response range. Given the large top
> cover mounting surface, the internal speaker is quite loud, with a low
> natural resonance point.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> On Dec 5, 2015, at 11:59 AM, Steve Ellington <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I've made 2 attempts to install a speaker in my new K3s but they bend
>> like butter and distort. I was very careful to use the fiber washers
>> and to not over tighten the bolts. The frame of the speaker can bent with
> 2 fingers!
>> I've never seen such a flimsy speaker.
>>
>> I had a brand x speaker in the junk box that worked great but I wanted
>> it to be original especially since the speaker is necessary to hold
>> down the sub receiver's shield. The junk speaker worked fine while I
>> awaited a replacement but the new replacement did the same. Basically it
> is junk.
>> I wonder if they washers they sent are too thin?
>>
>> I never use the internal speaker anyway but feel like it should at
>> least work.
>>
>> Has anyone else noticed this? Otherwise I love the K3s!
>>
>> Steve N4LQ
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>

Steve Ellington-2

Re: K3s Internal Speaker

If the washers are one micro too thick, air leaks around the speaker
degrading the sound.
If the washers are one micro too thin you can warp the speaker.

The cure is to have a spacer between the speaker and the lid. No air
should leak. I think of something like a spacer for PC fans or a
carburetor/manifold gasket. Just something stamped out of cardboard would
be fine.

Steve N4LQ

On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks, Ron. I'm also going to look into the thickness of the fibre
> washers. They're supposed to be as tall as the cone to prevent bending.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> On Dec 5, 2015, at 1:59 PM, "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Steve. Ron (Tech writer) AC7AC here.
> >
> > After r/r the speaker in a K3, K3 and K3S many times, I have managed to
> make
> > little dimples in the frame ears around the lock washers and nuts. But
> that
> > does not damage the performance of the speaker.
> >
> > As you probably know, the distortion and buzzing occurs with the voice
> coil
> > attached at the center of the cone rubs against the magnet. That happens
> > when the entire frame is distorted.
> >
> > Such distortion can result from aggressively tightening the mounting
> screws
> > so that the ring were the voice coil is attached is bent, which is why
> the
> > warning in the assembly procedure. But it takes being very aggressive.
> >
> > It can happen as a result of handling too, particularly if the speaker is
> > dropped, even when in its box. The magnet is heavy enough that it can
> bend
> > the frame members supporting the magnet on impact. I did that once right
> on
> > my workbench.
> >
> > It sounds like the factory accidentally may have sent you a defective
> > speaker, since you obviously are aware of the distortion issue. Or it's
> > possible the box containing the speaker was the victim of a shipping
> company
> > "gorilla" dribbling it across the sorting table. Elecraft packages
> shipments
> > very well, but I never underestimate the abilities of shipping companies,
> > Hi!
> >
> > 73, Ron AC7AC
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Wayne
> > Burdick
> > Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2015 12:11 PM
> > To: Steve Ellington
> > Cc: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3s Internal Speaker
> >
> > Hi Steve,
> >
> > Sorry to hear about this. I've never heard this complaint before (and
> there
> > are tens of thousands of these speakers in use, in both the K3 and K3S).
> The
> > frame should not bend if the correct fibre washers are used and the
> hardware
> > is not over-tightened. I'll check with our manufacturing lead to see if
> the
> > wrong ones were shipped.
> >
> > I'll also check with our tech writer. Perhaps the instructions could be
> > clarified.
> >
> > The internal speaker is certainly of high quality, so I hope you can get
> one
> > installed (I'm sure customer support will send another, given your
> issues).
> > It has excellent sensitivity (95 dB SPL, due in part to the very large
> > shielded magnet) and a wide frequency response range. Given the large top
> > cover mounting surface, the internal speaker is quite loud, with a low
> > natural resonance point.
> >
> > 73,
> > Wayne
> > N6KR
> >
> > On Dec 5, 2015, at 11:59 AM, Steve Ellington <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> I've made 2 attempts to install a speaker in my new K3s but they bend
> >> like butter and distort. I was very careful to use the fiber washers
> >> and to not over tighten the bolts. The frame of the speaker can bent
> with
> > 2 fingers!
> >> I've never seen such a flimsy speaker.
> >>
> >> I had a brand x speaker in the junk box that worked great but I wanted
> >> it to be original especially since the speaker is necessary to hold
> >> down the sub receiver's shield. The junk speaker worked fine while I
> >> awaited a replacement but the new replacement did the same. Basically
> it
> > is junk.
> >> I wonder if they washers they sent are too thin?
> >>
> >> I never use the internal speaker anyway but feel like it should at
> >> least work.
> >>
> >> Has anyone else noticed this? Otherwise I love the K3s!
> >>
> >> Steve N4LQ
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message
> > delivered to [hidden email]
> >
>
>