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K3s Transmit question

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Gary Smith-2

K3s Transmit question

Last night while using the K3s and WSJT-X
on meteor Scatter in the MSK144 mode I was
making numerous contacts. I stopped for
awhile and returned, this time noticing I
was not putting out any output from the
amp.

The rig went into the transmit state, and
the relay engaged on the amp. There was a
small grid current on the amp as one gets
with key down and no transmitted signal.
When I eventually moved the power control
on the K3s ever so slightly, it
transmitted properly. I had to do this
several times but did not notice it
before.

I re-loaded the factory settings with the
Elecraft Utility and the issue remains
albeit it is intermittent. Slightly moving
the power knob resolves the issue.

Any suggestions?

73,

Gary
KA1J
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Don Wilhelm

Re: K3s Transmit question

Gary,

Are you working in DATA A mode, and driving the audio to 4 bars solid
with the 5th bar flickering on the ALC meter?

That is the No ALC point for the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3. The lower bars are
there to give you a guide to adjust the audio.

So the common internet advice not to drive into ALC is being observed -
it is just that to point where that occurs is at a full 5th bar on the
ALC meter.

Moving the power knob "reactivates" the power control circuits, but if
you do not have enough audio, the power will not be steady - the radio
will "power hunt"

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/12/2018 11:12 AM, Gary Smith wrote:

> Last night while using the K3s and WSJT-X
> on meteor Scatter in the MSK144 mode I was
> making numerous contacts. I stopped for
> awhile and returned, this time noticing I
> was not putting out any output from the
> amp.
>
> The rig went into the transmit state, and
> the relay engaged on the amp. There was a
> small grid current on the amp as one gets
> with key down and no transmitted signal.
> When I eventually moved the power control
> on the K3s ever so slightly, it
> transmitted properly. I had to do this
> several times but did not notice it
> before.
>
> I re-loaded the factory settings with the
> Elecraft Utility and the issue remains
> albeit it is intermittent. Slightly moving
> the power knob resolves the issue.

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Gary Smith-2

Re: K3s Transmit question

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

Don & Jim,

Yes, I do have it set for the DATA A. The
bars were with the 5th flickering.

I just bumped the line from 7, to 8. Now
they are solid bars, no flicker. It does
seem to be OK at this moment and perhaps
that is what I needed to do. It was
intermittent before so will have to wait
and see.

I'll come back if this does not resolve
the issue. Thanks for the input.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Gary,
>
> Are you working in DATA A mode, and driving the audio to 4 bars
> solid with the 5th bar flickering on the ALC meter?
>
> That is the No ALC point for the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3. The lower bars are
> there to give you a guide to adjust the audio.
>
> So the common internet advice not to drive into ALC is being
> observed - it is just that to point where that occurs is at a full
> 5th bar on the ALC meter.
>
> Moving the power knob "reactivates" the power control circuits, but
> if you do not have enough audio, the power will not be steady - the
> radio will "power hunt"
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 8/12/2018 11:12 AM, Gary Smith wrote:
> > Last night while using the K3s and WSJT-X
> > on meteor Scatter in the MSK144 mode I was
> > making numerous contacts. I stopped for
> > awhile and returned, this time noticing I
> > was not putting out any output from the
> > amp.
> >
> > The rig went into the transmit state, and
> > the relay engaged on the amp. There was a
> > small grid current on the amp as one gets
> > with key down and no transmitted signal.
> > When I eventually moved the power control
> > on the K3s ever so slightly, it
> > transmitted properly. I had to do this
> > several times but did not notice it
> > before.
> >
> > I re-loaded the factory settings with the
> > Elecraft Utility and the issue remains
> > albeit it is intermittent. Slightly moving
> > the power knob resolves the issue.
>

Gary Smith-2

Re: K3s Transmit question

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

Hi Alexander,

No, ALC line here. I did mean to say idle
current. :)

I have increased the reading on the ALC
graph as suggested and so far it is
working properly, time will tell if that
was the issue.

Thank you for the reply!

73,

Gary
KA1J

>
> Hi Gary,
> are You using any ALC line from AMP to K3? Did You check ALC level on
> display (K3)? What You mean by "grid current"? You mean "idle current"
> ?
>
>
> Just my ideas what to check
> 73,
> Lexa, OK1DST
>
> ---------- Puvodní e-mail ----------
> Od: Gary Smith <[hidden email]>
> Komu: [hidden email]
> Datum: 12. 8. 2018 17:17:35
> Predmet: [Elecraft] K3s Transmit question
> Last night while using the K3s and WSJT-X
> on meteor Scatter in the MSK144 mode I was
> making numerous contacts. I stopped for
> awhile and returned, this time noticing I
> was not putting out any output from the
> amp.
>
> The rig went into the transmit state, and
> the relay engaged on the amp. There was a
> small grid current on the amp as one gets
> with key down and no transmitted signal.
> When I eventually moved the power control
> on the K3s ever so slightly, it
> transmitted properly. I had to do this
> several times but did not notice it
> before.
>
> I re-loaded the factory settings with the
> Elecraft Utility and the issue remains
> albeit it is intermittent. Slightly moving
> the power knob resolves the issue.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> 73,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
> __________________________________________
> ____________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/el
> ecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to
> [hidden email]

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3s Transmit question

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

Do understand in the K3 & K3S operation the actual output power is
controlled by the PWR setting on the radio. The PWR setting on the
WSJT-X screen is actually audio level. This should be adjusted about
mid scale for both TUNE and TRANSMIT. The radio Line Gain will then
allow you to adjust the udio level such that you have 4 bars solid on
the ALC scale. The 5th bar should be flickering.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 8/12/2018 11:23 AM, Gary Smith wrote:

> Don & Jim,
>
> Yes, I do have it set for the DATA A. The
> bars were with the 5th flickering.
>
> I just bumped the line from 7, to 8. Now
> they are solid bars, no flicker. It does
> seem to be OK at this moment and perhaps
> that is what I needed to do. It was
> intermittent before so will have to wait
> and see.
>
> I'll come back if this does not resolve
> the issue. Thanks for the input.
>
> 73,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
>
>
>> Gary,
>>
>> Are you working in DATA A mode, and driving the audio to 4 bars
>> solid with the 5th bar flickering on the ALC meter?
>>
>> That is the No ALC point for the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3. The lower bars are
>> there to give you a guide to adjust the audio.
>>
>> So the common internet advice not to drive into ALC is being
>> observed - it is just that to point where that occurs is at a full
>> 5th bar on the ALC meter.
>>
>> Moving the power knob "reactivates" the power control circuits, but
>> if you do not have enough audio, the power will not be steady - the
>> radio will "power hunt"
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 8/12/2018 11:12 AM, Gary Smith wrote:
>>> Last night while using the K3s and WSJT-X
>>> on meteor Scatter in the MSK144 mode I was
>>> making numerous contacts. I stopped for
>>> awhile and returned, this time noticing I
>>> was not putting out any output from the
>>> amp.
>>>
>>> The rig went into the transmit state, and
>>> the relay engaged on the amp. There was a
>>> small grid current on the amp as one gets
>>> with key down and no transmitted signal.
>>> When I eventually moved the power control
>>> on the K3s ever so slightly, it
>>> transmitted properly. I had to do this
>>> several times but did not notice it
>>> before.
>>>
>>> I re-loaded the factory settings with the
>>> Elecraft Utility and the issue remains
>>> albeit it is intermittent. Slightly moving
>>> the power knob resolves the issue.
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Gary Smith-2

Re: K3s Transmit question

Hi Bob,

I don't recall if it was from the WSJT-X
online help page or advice from a K3s user
but I had my WSJT-X power bar around 80%
and in the sound manager, both playback &
recording levels are around 52%.

With that, the line level value in the K3s
was around 7. After the suggestions
earlier I moved it to line level 8 and all
5 bars were solid. To the good, I was not
having that issue of false transmit and
needing to jog the power to get output.

I'm willing to follow suggestions and see
how it goes so I moved the power slider to
roughly 1/2 way which then required me to
adjust the line level value on the K3s to
26. Checking the levels in sound manager,
they remain at 52.

At this point the meteors seem to be
hitting less, the shower may well be over.
I've only made one Q in the last 20
minutes and that was an E contact from 163
miles away. I'm not reading decodes so the
band is quiet but all seems well, I am
seeing proper output. 40W drive is putting
out 900W on 6M with every transmission.

Fingers crossed these changes are the
solution. I hope these posts help others
in the future, and thanks for the reply.

Oh... How timely, you & I just started a
MSK144 Q & at 807 miles. Things are still
going! :)

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Do understand in the K3 & K3S operation the actual output power is
> controlled by the PWR setting on the radio. The PWR setting on the
> WSJT-X screen is actually audio level. This should be adjusted
> about mid scale for both TUNE and TRANSMIT. The radio Line Gain will
> then allow you to adjust the udio level such that you have 4 bars
> solid on the ALC scale. The 5th bar should be flickering.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 8/12/2018 11:23 AM, Gary Smith wrote:
> > Don & Jim,
> >
> > Yes, I do have it set for the DATA A. The
> > bars were with the 5th flickering.
> >
> > I just bumped the line from 7, to 8. Now
> > they are solid bars, no flicker. It does
> > seem to be OK at this moment and perhaps
> > that is what I needed to do. It was
> > intermittent before so will have to wait
> > and see.
> >
> > I'll come back if this does not resolve
> > the issue. Thanks for the input.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Gary
> > KA1J
> >
> >
> >> Gary,
> >>
> >> Are you working in DATA A mode, and driving the audio to 4 bars
> >> solid with the 5th bar flickering on the ALC meter?
> >>
> >> That is the No ALC point for the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3. The lower bars
> >> are there to give you a guide to adjust the audio.
> >>
> >> So the common internet advice not to drive into ALC is being
> >> observed - it is just that to point where that occurs is at a full
> >> 5th bar on the ALC meter.
> >>
> >> Moving the power knob "reactivates" the power control circuits, but
> >> if you do not have enough audio, the power will not be steady - the
> >> radio will "power hunt"
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Don W3FPR
> >>
> >> On 8/12/2018 11:12 AM, Gary Smith wrote:
> >>> Last night while using the K3s and WSJT-X
> >>> on meteor Scatter in the MSK144 mode I was
> >>> making numerous contacts. I stopped for
> >>> awhile and returned, this time noticing I
> >>> was not putting out any output from the
> >>> amp.
> >>>
> >>> The rig went into the transmit state, and
> >>> the relay engaged on the amp. There was a
> >>> small grid current on the amp as one gets
> >>> with key down and no transmitted signal.
> >>> When I eventually moved the power control
> >>> on the K3s ever so slightly, it
> >>> transmitted properly. I had to do this
> >>> several times but did not notice it
> >>> before.
> >>>
> >>> I re-loaded the factory settings with the
> >>> Elecraft Utility and the issue remains
> >>> albeit it is intermittent. Slightly moving
> >>> the power knob resolves the issue.
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Don Wilhelm

Re: K3s Transmit question

Gary,

It works best if you set the LINE gain to mid-range, and then adjust the
audio levels in WSJT-X and the computer "line out" or "speaker" to get
the 4 bars with the 5th flickering. When you get close, you can adjust
the LINE gain to "fine tune" it.
If the K3 LINE gain is set either toward the high or the low end, the
resolution is much greater than at mid-range.

The input level to the soundcard does not do anything on transmit - it
only changes the waterfall.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/12/2018 3:37 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

> Hi Bob,
>
> I don't recall if it was from the WSJT-X
> online help page or advice from a K3s user
> but I had my WSJT-X power bar around 80%
> and in the sound manager, both playback &
> recording levels are around 52%.
>
> With that, the line level value in the K3s
> was around 7. After the suggestions
> earlier I moved it to line level 8 and all
> 5 bars were solid. To the good, I was not
> having that issue of false transmit and
> needing to jog the power to get output.
>
> I'm willing to follow suggestions and see
> how it goes so I moved the power slider to
> roughly 1/2 way which then required me to
> adjust the line level value on the K3s to
> 26. Checking the levels in sound manager,
> they remain at 52.
>
> At this point the meteors seem to be
> hitting less, the shower may well be over.
> I've only made one Q in the last 20
> minutes and that was an E contact from 163
> miles away. I'm not reading decodes so the
> band is quiet but all seems well, I am
> seeing proper output. 40W drive is putting
> out 900W on 6M with every transmission.
>
> Fingers crossed these changes are the
> solution. I hope these posts help others
> in the future, and thanks for the reply.
>
> Oh... How timely, you & I just started a
> MSK144 Q & at 807 miles. Things are still
> going! :)
>
> 73,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
>
>> Do understand in the K3 & K3S operation the actual output power is
>> controlled by the PWR setting on the radio. The PWR setting on the
>> WSJT-X screen is actually audio level. This should be adjusted
>> about mid scale for both TUNE and TRANSMIT. The radio Line Gain will
>> then allow you to adjust the udio level such that you have 4 bars
>> solid on the ALC scale. The 5th bar should be flickering.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>> On 8/12/2018 11:23 AM, Gary Smith wrote:
>>> Don & Jim,
>>>
>>> Yes, I do have it set for the DATA A. The
>>> bars were with the 5th flickering.
>>>
>>> I just bumped the line from 7, to 8. Now
>>> they are solid bars, no flicker. It does
>>> seem to be OK at this moment and perhaps
>>> that is what I needed to do. It was
>>> intermittent before so will have to wait
>>> and see.
>>>
>>> I'll come back if this does not resolve
>>> the issue. Thanks for the input.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Gary
>>> KA1J
>>>
>>>
>>>> Gary,
>>>>
>>>> Are you working in DATA A mode, and driving the audio to 4 bars
>>>> solid with the 5th bar flickering on the ALC meter?
>>>>
>>>> That is the No ALC point for the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3. The lower bars
>>>> are there to give you a guide to adjust the audio.
>>>>
>>>> So the common internet advice not to drive into ALC is being
>>>> observed - it is just that to point where that occurs is at a full
>>>> 5th bar on the ALC meter.
>>>>
>>>> Moving the power knob "reactivates" the power control circuits, but
>>>> if you do not have enough audio, the power will not be steady - the
>>>> radio will "power hunt"
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Don W3FPR
>>>>
>>>> On 8/12/2018 11:12 AM, Gary Smith wrote:
>>>>> Last night while using the K3s and WSJT-X
>>>>> on meteor Scatter in the MSK144 mode I was
>>>>> making numerous contacts. I stopped for
>>>>> awhile and returned, this time noticing I
>>>>> was not putting out any output from the
>>>>> amp.
>>>>>
>>>>> The rig went into the transmit state, and
>>>>> the relay engaged on the amp. There was a
>>>>> small grid current on the amp as one gets
>>>>> with key down and no transmitted signal.
>>>>> When I eventually moved the power control
>>>>> on the K3s ever so slightly, it
>>>>> transmitted properly. I had to do this
>>>>> several times but did not notice it
>>>>> before.
>>>>>
>>>>> I re-loaded the factory settings with the
>>>>> Elecraft Utility and the issue remains
>>>>> albeit it is intermittent. Slightly moving
>>>>> the power knob resolves the issue.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3s Transmit question

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

Yes, I find that the number of decodes is less this afternoon than last
evening.   Yes, we've worked twice, last evening and again this
afternoon. Glad you have things going.    I'm running my K3S at about
30 watts driving the KPA500 to 450 watts.   The antenna is a 4 ele
HyGain at 55 ft fed with 1/2" Andrew hard line, except for the 10'
section around the rotating sleeve and to the feed point on the antenna
which is RG-213.

Confusing to many is the fact there are three different places which
affect the transmit audio going to the radio.   The Windows Sound mixer,
here I have the "speaker" level set at 35%. Then the PWR slider on the
WSJT panel, which is actually audio level and not power which is at
about 50%.    And then the Line Gain which in Data A mode is controlled
by the knob on the radio marked MIC which is at 30. But when comes up
on the display as LINE xx. Depending various items in the system, these
number may be different than yours.    At the same time, I always
suggest a value about "mid way". Once you get them all nailed down,
then go to WSJT F2 menu, AUDIO tab, and set Remember Power Per Band for
TRANSMIT and TUNE. Check the boxes. That way you will have less to
fiddle with when leaving or coming back to WSJT.

Thanks for the contact.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 8/12/2018 2:37 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

> Hi Bob,
>
> I don't recall if it was from the WSJT-X
> online help page or advice from a K3s user
> but I had my WSJT-X power bar around 80%
> and in the sound manager, both playback &
> recording levels are around 52%.
>
> With that, the line level value in the K3s
> was around 7. After the suggestions
> earlier I moved it to line level 8 and all
> 5 bars were solid. To the good, I was not
> having that issue of false transmit and
> needing to jog the power to get output.
>
> I'm willing to follow suggestions and see
> how it goes so I moved the power slider to
> roughly 1/2 way which then required me to
> adjust the line level value on the K3s to
> 26. Checking the levels in sound manager,
> they remain at 52.
>
> At this point the meteors seem to be
> hitting less, the shower may well be over.
> I've only made one Q in the last 20
> minutes and that was an E contact from 163
> miles away. I'm not reading decodes so the
> band is quiet but all seems well, I am
> seeing proper output. 40W drive is putting
> out 900W on 6M with every transmission.
>
> Fingers crossed these changes are the
> solution. I hope these posts help others
> in the future, and thanks for the reply.
>
> Oh... How timely, you & I just started a
> MSK144 Q & at 807 miles. Things are still
> going! :)
>
> 73,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
>
>> Do understand in the K3 & K3S operation the actual output power is
>> controlled by the PWR setting on the radio. The PWR setting on the
>> WSJT-X screen is actually audio level. This should be adjusted
>> about mid scale for both TUNE and TRANSMIT. The radio Line Gain will
>> then allow you to adjust the udio level such that you have 4 bars
>> solid on the ALC scale. The 5th bar should be flickering.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>> On 8/12/2018 11:23 AM, Gary Smith wrote:
>>> Don & Jim,
>>>
>>> Yes, I do have it set for the DATA A. The
>>> bars were with the 5th flickering.
>>>
>>> I just bumped the line from 7, to 8. Now
>>> they are solid bars, no flicker. It does
>>> seem to be OK at this moment and perhaps
>>> that is what I needed to do. It was
>>> intermittent before so will have to wait
>>> and see.
>>>
>>> I'll come back if this does not resolve
>>> the issue. Thanks for the input.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Gary
>>> KA1J
>>>
>>>
>>>> Gary,
>>>>
>>>> Are you working in DATA A mode, and driving the audio to 4 bars
>>>> solid with the 5th bar flickering on the ALC meter?
>>>>
>>>> That is the No ALC point for the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3. The lower bars
>>>> are there to give you a guide to adjust the audio.
>>>>
>>>> So the common internet advice not to drive into ALC is being
>>>> observed - it is just that to point where that occurs is at a full
>>>> 5th bar on the ALC meter.
>>>>
>>>> Moving the power knob "reactivates" the power control circuits, but
>>>> if you do not have enough audio, the power will not be steady - the
>>>> radio will "power hunt"
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Don W3FPR
>>>>
>>>> On 8/12/2018 11:12 AM, Gary Smith wrote:
>>>>> Last night while using the K3s and WSJT-X
>>>>> on meteor Scatter in the MSK144 mode I was
>>>>> making numerous contacts. I stopped for
>>>>> awhile and returned, this time noticing I
>>>>> was not putting out any output from the
>>>>> amp.
>>>>>
>>>>> The rig went into the transmit state, and
>>>>> the relay engaged on the amp. There was a
>>>>> small grid current on the amp as one gets
>>>>> with key down and no transmitted signal.
>>>>> When I eventually moved the power control
>>>>> on the K3s ever so slightly, it
>>>>> transmitted properly. I had to do this
>>>>> several times but did not notice it
>>>>> before.
>>>>>
>>>>> I re-loaded the factory settings with the
>>>>> Elecraft Utility and the issue remains
>>>>> albeit it is intermittent. Slightly moving
>>>>> the power knob resolves the issue.
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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