K4 Remote Control
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>"Remote control -- The K4 comes with remote-control via Ethernet built in.
One K4 can controlled by another, or by a tablet or PC. Eric must have demonstrated this 500 times at Dayton and I daresay he's getting good at it." Wayne, Since 2015, N4CC and I have been operating a remote station on the FL/GA state line. A K3 and RemoteRig have been the centerpiece of the station. Hopefully, Elecraft has been getting feedback from its remote users on various networking and operability issues. While we consider the value of replacing the K3 with a K4, here's my list of items that would make the decision easier: 1) Incorporate variable panadapter streaming bandwidth, much the way that VNC users can change streaming bandwidth on the fly. Our station uses a Verizon 4G/LTE link on the "last mile." We're presently limited to a 30GB/month plan and between two users, we often approach the monthly limit with RemoteRig and VNC, especially during DXpedition activity. At low streaming settings, the display would need to show reasonably good resolution/screen refresh to be of any added value to us. Keep in mind that not all remote users have access to unlimited data plans; 2) Ability to kill audio streaming on the fly. When operating FT8, RTTY and other digital modes remotely with the digital applications residing on a host desktop via VNC or TeamViewer, there's absolutely no need to stream audio. An audio kill switch would save a tremendous amount of monthly data for users like us on a monthly data plan. 3) CW performance can be improved over RemoteRig. Instead of sending "dit and dah" elements, consider sending ASCII characters or a variant where full characters are transmitted in a data packet. K1EL remote software and the Ten Tec Omni VII stream CW in complete characters. In my experience, those systems have been far superior to that of RemoteRig. For five years, I used a pair of linked K1EL Winkeyers and never had the CW stuttering and missed keyed element issues I experience with RemoteRig. No doubt other users have had no issues but this is important to users like us who are dependent on multiple media forms in the complete transmission path (e.g., hybrid-fiber-coaxial to 4G/5G/LTE) where jitter and latency are constantly changing on the network. 4) Until a "K4 Mini" is released, it makes little sense to purchase a K4 if a companion K4 is required at the control point. That's a lot of dough sitting unused on the desktop. Any idea as to when a mini version will be released? These are my issues based on four years of remote experience with a K3. I'm sure other remote users may want to chime in with their own. All feedback is good. Paul, W9AC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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"3) CW performance can be improved over RemoteRig. Instead of sending "dit
and dah" elements, consider sending ASCII characters or a variant where full characters are transmitted in a data packet." If K4 uses a super-set of K3 commands then I assume it would support KY mode ( ASCII characters transmitted over the CAT interface) for CW. I think this mode would be a lot better known if it was supported by N1MM+ but, last time I checked, it isn't. 73, Andy, k3wyc ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen
>"If K4 uses a super-set of K3 commands then I assume it would support KY
mode ( ASCII characters transmitted over the CAT interface) for CW. I think this mode would be a lot better known if it was supported by N1MM+ but, last time I checked, it isn't." If Elecraft has partnered with Microbit, then that saved a whole lot of remote development time and RemoteRig could easily be embedded into the K4, either on it's own board, or on the K4 I/O interface. If that's the case, I hope an option could be added to transmit complete characters in addition to the current configuration. Paul, W9AC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN
This is definitely supported by the K4 and would be a preferred way to handle networking delays.
Wayne N6KR > On May 21, 2019, at 6:33 AM, Andy Durbin <[hidden email]> wrote: > > "3) CW performance can be improved over RemoteRig. Instead of sending "dit > and dah" elements, consider sending ASCII characters or a variant where full > characters are transmitted in a data packet." > > > If K4 uses a super-set of K3 commands then I assume it would support KY mode ( ASCII characters transmitted over the CAT interface) for CW. I think this mode would be a lot better known if it was supported by N1MM+ but, last time I checked, it isn't. > > 73, > Andy, k3wyc > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Will a K3 be able to talk to the K4 remotely?
I currently use two K3's and sometimes a k3 mini and have been for 6 years. As was mentioned two K4's will be cost prohibitive for me.. 73 Dwight NS9I On 5/21/2019 8:55 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > This is definitely supported by the K4 and would be a preferred way to handle networking delays. > > Wayne > N6KR > > >> On May 21, 2019, at 6:33 AM, Andy Durbin <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> "3) CW performance can be improved over RemoteRig. Instead of sending "dit >> and dah" elements, consider sending ASCII characters or a variant where full >> characters are transmitted in a data packet." >> >> >> If K4 uses a super-set of K3 commands then I assume it would support KY mode ( ASCII characters transmitted over the CAT interface) for CW. I think this mode would be a lot better known if it was supported by N1MM+ but, last time I checked, it isn't. >> >> 73, >> Andy, k3wyc >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN
Andy,
I believe the KY commands are already able to be utilized by N1MM. There is a nice writeup by K8ZT about how to do this here: http://k8zt.blogspot.com/2016/07/using-elecraft-kx3kx3-ky-codes-to-allow.html Another ham did a youtube on how to make this work. I hope that helps. 73, Joe, W8JH ----- 73, Joe, W8JH K3 1713, KPA 132, KX3 7498 -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
73,
Joe, W8JH K3s, KPA 500, KAT 500 and KX3 happy user. |
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In reply to this post by NS9I WI
K4 is actually cheaper than a K3S.
Sent from my iPhone ...nr4c. bill > On May 21, 2019, at 11:07 AM, dgb <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Will a K3 be able to talk to the K4 remotely? > > I currently use two K3's and sometimes a k3 mini and have been for 6 years. > > As was mentioned two K4's will be cost prohibitive for me.. > > 73 Dwight NS9I > >> On 5/21/2019 8:55 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: >> This is definitely supported by the K4 and would be a preferred way to handle networking delays. >> >> Wayne >> N6KR >> >> >>> On May 21, 2019, at 6:33 AM, Andy Durbin <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> "3) CW performance can be improved over RemoteRig. Instead of sending "dit >>> and dah" elements, consider sending ASCII characters or a variant where full >>> characters are transmitted in a data packet." >>> >>> >>> If K4 uses a super-set of K3 commands then I assume it would support KY mode ( ASCII characters transmitted over the CAT interface) for CW. I think this mode would be a lot better known if it was supported by N1MM+ but, last time I checked, it isn't. >>> >>> 73, >>> Andy, k3wyc >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN
I have used this feature with RUMlogNG, and it works well in CW.
Using it in RTTY has a problem with chaining. If a second KY command is sent before the first one has finished transmitting, some characters are dropped. CW does not drop characters when chaining. A very annoying bug for a anyone who uses KY when RTTY contesting. 73 Bill AE6JV On 5/21/19 at 6:33 AM, [hidden email] (Andy Durbin) wrote: >If K4 uses a super-set of K3 commands then I assume it would >support KY mode ( ASCII characters transmitted over the CAT >interface) for CW. I think this mode would be a lot better >known if it was supported by N1MM+ but, last time I checked, it isn't. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | I like the farmers' market | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | because I can get fruits and | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | vegetables without stickers. | Los Gatos, CA 95032 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen
>"I believe the KY commands are already able to be utilized by N1MM..."
All good. What I'm referring to is packet-generated characters while using *paddles*. Instead of dit and dah elements, the keyer interprets paddle closure and creates an ASCII or similar character. For example, the worst-case character delay when using this mode is the number zero (0). The character isn't sent until the last "dah" element is formed and the dah paddle is released. One may think this creates a huge timing problem on the air, but it really doesn't in actual practice. To the best of my knowledge this mode of character forming was first used by Ten Tec in the Omni VI, then adopted by K1EL in his WinkeyerUSB device. Paul, W9AC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen
"To the best of my knowledge this mode of character forming was first used by
Ten Tec in the Omni VI, then adopted by K1EL in his WinkeyerUSB device." I've owned a WinKeyer USB for several years but I was not aware that it could convert paddle inputs to character data. What applications are able to use that character data? 73, Andy, k3wyc ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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If I am not mistaken the logging programs sends ASCI characters to the
keyer, which in turn generates morse. Gregg W6IZT -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Andy Durbin Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 11:27 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] K4 Remote Control "To the best of my knowledge this mode of character forming was first used by Ten Tec in the Omni VI, then adopted by K1EL in his WinkeyerUSB device." I've owned a WinKeyer USB for several years but I was not aware that it could convert paddle inputs to character data. What applications are able to use that character data? 73, Andy, k3wyc ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Gregg,
I believe the question is more properly stated as "Does the logging program format the string of ASCII characters as a "KY" command for Elecraft gear?" I have come to believe that it does not - it just sends ASCII characters in a format acceptable for the WinKeyer. 73, Don W3FPR On 5/22/2019 12:06 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > If I am not mistaken the logging programs sends ASCI characters to the > keyer, which in turn generates morse. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen
My understanding is that the K4 front panel and the K4 guts (the radio
proper) are each *separate computers* that talk to each other over Ethernet. The radio computer can accept multiple, concurrent connections from front panels, tablets, and other computers, either on a local network or across the Internet. That's what they demonstrated at Dayton - an operational K4 being simultaneously controlled by its own front panel, another K4, and a tablet. I don't know if any of this required collaboration with microBit (RemoteRig), but those RRC boxes are definitely out of the picture. The big bennie for me out of all this is that I will be able *eventually* to set up my remote station once and access it locally, from a K4/0 at my other QTH, or from my laptop when traveling. I say "eventually" because the K4/0 will be released significantly later. They've also mentioned supporting the K*Pod external knob from the laptop/tablet implementations, thereby providing that all-important "big knob" for VFO tuning. Sounds great; eager to get my hands on it! 73, /Rick N6XI -- Rick Tavan Truckee, CA On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 6:40 AM Paul Christensen <[hidden email]> wrote: > >"If K4 uses a super-set of K3 commands then I assume it would support KY > mode ( ASCII characters transmitted over the CAT interface) for CW. I > think this mode would be a lot better known if it was supported by N1MM+ > but, last time I checked, it isn't." > > If Elecraft has partnered with Microbit, then that saved a whole lot of > remote development time and RemoteRig could easily be embedded into the K4, > either on it's own board, or on the K4 I/O interface. If that's the case, > I > hope an option could be added to transmit complete characters in addition > to > the current configuration. > > Paul, W9AC > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
In WK host mode, you just send ASCII characters to the WK and it creates
the Morse. The only characters that will create Morse code are A-Z, 0-9, and some punctuation ... that is only characters for which there is a Morse equivalent. There are some host mode commands that will send a few prosigns such as AR. I can only speak for N1MM+ but if you set it and the K3 to have PTT and Keying on DTR-RTS, N1MM+ sends Morse on the key line, not KY commands to the CAT port. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 5/22/2019 9:19 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Gregg, > > I believe the question is more properly stated as "Does the logging > program format the string of ASCII characters as a "KY" command for > Elecraft gear?" > > I have come to believe that it does not - it just sends ASCII > characters in a format acceptable for the WinKeyer. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 5/22/2019 12:06 PM, [hidden email] wrote: >> If I am not mistaken the logging programs sends ASCI characters to the >> keyer, which in turn generates morse. >> > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen
"I believe the question is more properly stated as "Does the logging
program format the string of ASCII characters as a "KY" command for Elecraft gear?" I have come to believe that it does not - it just sends ASCII characters in a format acceptable for the WinKeyer." I spent some time looking into this before I purchased my WinKeyer USB. Although N1MM+ does not directly support KY mode it is possible to build substitution macros that do produce KY command strings. I lost interest in that because Kenwood KY mode requires a full KY buffer before it will transmit. This makes the macros unusable for variable length substitutions such as call sign and serial number. However, I found the K3 does not require a fixed length full buffer to transmit and it is reported to work ok with variable length macro substitutions. Still a long way from converting paddle swipes to ASCII. 73, Andy, k3wyc ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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When you use a paddle to send PSK on the K3, the paddle input is
being converted to Varicode <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicode>. When you use a paddle to send RTTY, it is being converted to Baudot <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baudot_code>. When you use a paddle to load a CW memory, the paddle input is being translated to ASCII when it is placed in the memory, (or at least when you read out the memory location with the K3 Utility.) The facility exists and is buried in the K3. 73 Bill AE6JV On 5/22/19 at 11:40 AM, [hidden email] (Andy Durbin) wrote: >Still a long way from converting paddle swipes to ASCII. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | I like the farmers' market | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | because I can get fruits and | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | vegetables without stickers. | Los Gatos, CA 95032 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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