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[KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

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Ozy

[KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

Hi Guys,

I made a video and posted it on youtube to better explain the issue I'm having. Please watch and then reply to it here if you would.

Much appreciated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtCPvKKM3_c

Chris
K6OZY
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Igor Sokolov-2

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

I think what happens is KAT500 needs few msec to determine the operating
frequency and measure SWR. There is currently no delay between PTT going
into KAT500 from the radio and PTT going out into the KPA500. These few msec
is enough for KPA500 to switch itself to fault condition.
Here programmable PTT delay in KAT500 would be very helpful. Especially so
with other makes of the amplifiers.
I have discussed it with Elecraft tech support and they say this feature is
on their to do list. Lets hope that the next firmware revision of KAT500
will have that feature implemented.

73, Igor UA9CDC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Johnson" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 3:35 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

> Hi Guys,
>
> I made a video and posted it on youtube to better explain the issue I'm
> having. Please watch and then reply to it here if you would.
>
> Much appreciated
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtCPvKKM3_c
>
> Chris
> K6OZY
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ozy

Make sure you are only routing the AMP keying line from the rig through
the KAT 500 to the amp. The tuner always interrupts this line when it is
tuning. This can be done either via the the AMP keying line RCA
connectors on the Rig, KAT500 and the AMP, or via the KPAK3AUX cable
connections between the K3 and KAT500 and between the KAT500 and the
KPA500 when the K3 is used.

Some customers have hooked up the AMP keying line to the amp two ways in
parallel. One correctly through the KAT500 to the amp (usually via the
KPAK3AUX cable), and the other incorrectly via a second path directly
from the Rig's Key out RCA connector directly to the amp. This second
path will nullify the KAT500's attempt to open the AMP keying line to
theMAP during tune.

73,

Eric
---
www.elecraft.com

On 12/7/2012 1:35 AM, Chris Johnson wrote:

> Hi Guys,
>
> I made a video and posted it on youtube to better explain the issue I'm having. Please watch and then reply to it here if you would.
>
> Much appreciated
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtCPvKKM3_c
>
> Chris
> K6OZY
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

In reply to this post by Igor Sokolov-2

It should be noted that the KAT500 does not "regenerate" the PTT
signal, rather it (only) interrupts it (by opening relay contacts).
Therefore it can't really delay the initial PTT signal going to the
amp... it can only interrupt it as fast as it can, when it detects
high VSWR.

As Gary mentioned, there is newer KPA500 firmware that alleviates the
problem of hard faults when it detects high VSWR before the KAT500 has
time to interrupt the keying line, but it appears that that new KPA500
firmware has not been generally released yet.

73,

~iain / N6ML

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 4:10 AM, Igor Sokolov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think what happens is KAT500 needs few msec to determine the operating
> frequency and measure SWR. There is currently no delay between PTT going
> into KAT500 from the radio and PTT going out into the KPA500. These few msec
> is enough for KPA500 to switch itself to fault condition.
> Here programmable PTT delay in KAT500 would be very helpful. Especially so
> with other makes of the amplifiers.
> I have discussed it with Elecraft tech support and they say this feature is
> on their to do list. Lets hope that the next firmware revision of KAT500
> will have that feature implemented.
>
> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Johnson" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 3:35 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)
>
>
>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I made a video and posted it on youtube to better explain the issue I'm
>> having. Please watch and then reply to it here if you would.
>>
>> Much appreciated
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtCPvKKM3_c
>>
>> Chris
>> K6OZY
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

ke9uw

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

So with the new firmware the KPA500 would tolerate a high VSWR for a few more milliseconds to give the tuner time to interrupt keying?
I was thinking of ways to not send a keying line with the K3 when using "tune". But this doesn't seem possible with the K3...I take it the PTT is used internally in the K3 or no RF comes out.
I deal with turning the KPA to standby now anyway for the MFJ 998 tuner, so I'm used to remembering...but am looking forward to tha KAT500...and if the KPA doesn't mind a little non-hard fault, so much the better.

Sent from my iPad
Chuck, KE9UW
(Jack for BMW motorcycles)

On Dec 7, 2012, at 12:31 PM, "iain macdonnell - N6ML" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It should be noted that the KAT500 does not "regenerate" the PTT
> signal, rather it (only) interrupts it (by opening relay contacts).
> Therefore it can't really delay the initial PTT signal going to the
> amp... it can only interrupt it as fast as it can, when it detects
> high VSWR.
>
> As Gary mentioned, there is newer KPA500 firmware that alleviates the
> problem of hard faults when it detects high VSWR before the KAT500 has
> time to interrupt the keying line, but it appears that that new KPA500
> firmware has not been generally released yet.
>
> 73,
>
> ~iain / N6ML
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 4:10 AM, Igor Sokolov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I think what happens is KAT500 needs few msec to determine the operating
>> frequency and measure SWR. There is currently no delay between PTT going
>> into KAT500 from the radio and PTT going out into the KPA500. These few msec
>> is enough for KPA500 to switch itself to fault condition.
>> Here programmable PTT delay in KAT500 would be very helpful. Especially so
>> with other makes of the amplifiers.
>> I have discussed it with Elecraft tech support and they say this feature is
>> on their to do list. Lets hope that the next firmware revision of KAT500
>> will have that feature implemented.
>>
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Johnson" <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 3:35 PM
>> Subject: [Elecraft] [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> I made a video and posted it on youtube to better explain the issue I'm
>>> having. Please watch and then reply to it here if you would.
>>>
>>> Much appreciated
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtCPvKKM3_c
>>>
>>> Chris
>>> K6OZY
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Chuck, KE9UW

Ozy

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Hi Eric,

I do not have the AUX cable. As described in the video, I am only using the RCA cable from the Flex 3000 into the KAT500 and then another cable from the KAT500 down to the KPA500.

I am not using this with a K3 radio, which in that case, would only use the AUX cable and no RCA Key Line.

On Dec 7, 2012, at 11:22 AM, "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Make sure you are only routing the AMP keying line from the rig through the KAT 500 to the amp. The tuner always interrupts this line when it is tuning. This can be done either via the the AMP keying line RCA connectors on the Rig, KAT500 and the AMP, or via the KPAK3AUX cable connections between the K3 and KAT500 and between the KAT500 and the KPA500 when the K3 is used.
>
> Some customers have hooked up the AMP keying line to the amp two ways in parallel. One correctly through the KAT500 to the amp (usually via the KPAK3AUX cable), and the other incorrectly via a second path directly from the Rig's Key out RCA connector directly to the amp. This second path will nullify the KAT500's attempt to open the AMP keying line to theMAP during tune.
>
> 73,
>
> Eric
> ---
> www.elecraft.com
>
> On 12/7/2012 1:35 AM, Chris Johnson wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I made a video and posted it on youtube to better explain the issue I'm having. Please watch and then reply to it here if you would.
>>
>> Much appreciated
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtCPvKKM3_c
>>
>> Chris
>> K6OZY
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

In reply to this post by ke9uw

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 11:00 AM, hawley, charles j jr
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> So with the new firmware the KPA500 would tolerate a high VSWR for a few more milliseconds to give the tuner time to interrupt keying?

Yes. It may still kick in the attenuator temporarily, but it shouldn't
hard-fault.

> I was thinking of ways to not send a keying line with the K3 when using "tune". But this doesn't seem possible with the K3...I take it the PTT is used internally in the K3 or no RF comes out.
> I deal with turning the KPA to standby now anyway for the MFJ 998 tuner, so I'm used to remembering...but am looking forward to tha KAT500...and if the KPA doesn't mind a little non-hard fault, so much the better.

I used a MFJ-998 before I got the KAT500 too. I had the KPA500
configured to switch to standby mode on band-change, then I'd transmit
a bit to get the MFJ to tune, then put the KPA500 in Operate. I
operated the KAT500 that way at first too (during early field-test),
but since the firmware for both KAT500 and KPA500 have matured, I've
turned off the option to standby-on-band-change on the KPA500, and
have been happily QSYing around with no resulting hard faults.

73,

~iain / N6ML

> On Dec 7, 2012, at 12:31 PM, "iain macdonnell - N6ML" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> It should be noted that the KAT500 does not "regenerate" the PTT
>> signal, rather it (only) interrupts it (by opening relay contacts).
>> Therefore it can't really delay the initial PTT signal going to the
>> amp... it can only interrupt it as fast as it can, when it detects
>> high VSWR.
>>
>> As Gary mentioned, there is newer KPA500 firmware that alleviates the
>> problem of hard faults when it detects high VSWR before the KAT500 has
>> time to interrupt the keying line, but it appears that that new KPA500
>> firmware has not been generally released yet.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ~iain / N6ML
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 4:10 AM, Igor Sokolov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I think what happens is KAT500 needs few msec to determine the operating
>>> frequency and measure SWR. There is currently no delay between PTT going
>>> into KAT500 from the radio and PTT going out into the KPA500. These few msec
>>> is enough for KPA500 to switch itself to fault condition.
>>> Here programmable PTT delay in KAT500 would be very helpful. Especially so
>>> with other makes of the amplifiers.
>>> I have discussed it with Elecraft tech support and they say this feature is
>>> on their to do list. Lets hope that the next firmware revision of KAT500
>>> will have that feature implemented.
>>>
>>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Johnson" <[hidden email]>
>>> To: <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 3:35 PM
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>
>>>> I made a video and posted it on youtube to better explain the issue I'm
>>>> having. Please watch and then reply to it here if you would.
>>>>
>>>> Much appreciated
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtCPvKKM3_c
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>> K6OZY
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Igor Sokolov-2

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

In reply to this post by Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2

That may be cure for KPA500 + KAT500 combo but KAT500 supposed to work with
amps of other manufacturers. My conversation with Elecraft tech support led
me to believe that some sort of TX delay can be implemented in future
firmware release.

73, Igor UA9CDC

----- Original Message -----
From: "iain macdonnell - N6ML" <[hidden email]>
To: "Igor Sokolov" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Chris Johnson" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500
(Video)

> It should be noted that the KAT500 does not "regenerate" the PTT
> signal, rather it (only) interrupts it (by opening relay contacts).
> Therefore it can't really delay the initial PTT signal going to the
> amp... it can only interrupt it as fast as it can, when it detects
> high VSWR.
>
> As Gary mentioned, there is newer KPA500 firmware that alleviates the
> problem of hard faults when it detects high VSWR before the KAT500 has
> time to interrupt the keying line, but it appears that that new KPA500
> firmware has not been generally released yet.
>
> 73,
>
> ~iain / N6ML
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 4:10 AM, Igor Sokolov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I think what happens is KAT500 needs few msec to determine the operating
>> frequency and measure SWR. There is currently no delay between PTT going
>> into KAT500 from the radio and PTT going out into the KPA500. These few
>> msec
>> is enough for KPA500 to switch itself to fault condition.
>> Here programmable PTT delay in KAT500 would be very helpful. Especially
>> so
>> with other makes of the amplifiers.
>> I have discussed it with Elecraft tech support and they say this feature
>> is
>> on their to do list. Lets hope that the next firmware revision of KAT500
>> will have that feature implemented.
>>
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Johnson" <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 3:35 PM
>> Subject: [Elecraft] [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500
>> (Video)
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> I made a video and posted it on youtube to better explain the issue I'm
>>> having. Please watch and then reply to it here if you would.
>>>
>>> Much appreciated
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtCPvKKM3_c
>>>
>>> Chris
>>> K6OZY
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Roy Morris-6

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

In reply to this post by Ozy

Hello Chris,
Your video shows what I am experiencing also. Firmware v.1.15 seems to have
been distributed to field testers to deal with the key line problem. So far
v.1.11 is all that is available to us at this time. Roy Morris W4WFB

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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ke9uw

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

In reply to this post by Igor Sokolov-2

The PTT is generated by the transceiver. The KAT500 passes it thru to the amp unless the KAT is tuning a high SWR. The problem is that the amp goes into fault before the KAT can OPEN the key line. Firmware in the KAT with some delay is not the answer...it's already too slow for the amp. If there is any programmable delay in the KAT, then a firmware change might be to speed that up if possible. But I doubt that it is possible since it's a relay opening in the KAT which requires some milliseconds.
I'm guessing the only Elecraft solution is to delay the amp's response to the high SWR so it doesn't "Fault" giving the KAT time to open the key line. So the change in firmware we are waiting on is for the KPA amp.
Help me if I'm missing something here.

Chuck, KE9UW

Dick Dievendorff

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

I think your analysis is right, and in some cases the ATU cannot break or reconnect the key line while RF is present. We have KPA500 firmware in test that does this. It is on its way to public availability.

73 & Merry Xmas
Dick, K6KR

Dick

On Dec 8, 2012, at 4:18, ke9uw <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The PTT is generated by the transceiver. The KAT500 passes it thru to the amp
> unless the KAT is tuning a high SWR. The problem is that the amp goes into
> fault before the KAT can OPEN the key line. Firmware in the KAT with some
> delay is not the answer...it's already too slow for the amp. If there is any
> programmable delay in the KAT, then a firmware change might be to speed that
> up if possible. But I doubt that it is possible since it's a relay opening
> in the KAT which requires some milliseconds.
> I'm guessing the only Elecraft solution is to delay the amp's response to
> the high SWR so it doesn't "Fault" giving the KAT time to open the key line.
> So the change in firmware we are waiting on is for the KPA amp.
> Help me if I'm missing something here.
>
>
>
> -----
> Chuck, KE9UW
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KAT500-Help-with-KeyLine-Interrupt-on-KPA500-Video-tp7566844p7566890.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

KV5J

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

That's of little help for all of us with non Elecraft Amps.

Keith, XE3/K5ENS

ke9uw

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

From what I read in the manual, although it would be difficult to satisfy in every way all the non-Elecraft amps, there are some thoughtful safeguards built into the KAT500 which should help. One that comes to mind is that it doesn't drop the key line if the power is over a certain amount (29 watts default). While that would not hurt the KAP500, some other amps would be damaged if the key line was to be opened when they are producing full power. The KAT500 manual is on line and addresses the use of other than Elecraft amps.

Chuck, KE9UW

ke9uw

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500 (Video)

In reply to this post by KV5J

Chuck, KE9UW

Igor Sokolov-2

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500(Video)

In reply to this post by ke9uw

IMHO adapting amplifier to work with KAT500 is not the right way of doing it
because KAT500 is supposed to work with many different amps of 600 watt
class.
Yes, PTT is generated by the radio and then passed to KAT500. KAT500 should
generate it's own PTT signal for PA based on it's own KAT500 status and
incoming PTT signal from the radio. If incoming PTT is present and antenna
is matched then KAT500 generates PTT for the amp. This will create
additional delay equal to switching time of KAT500 relays (minimum) plus
some time required to analyze frequency and bring KAT500 to matching state.
That is the price to pay for use of the automatic tuner.
This will exclude PA faults and relays hot switching in KAT500.
But then this feature can be user selectable. If you do not need it just do
not use it.
The question remains, is it possible to do it all in the firmware or
hardware mods will be required.

73, Igor UA9CDC

----- Original Message -----
From: "ke9uw" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on
KPA500(Video)

> The PTT is generated by the transceiver. The KAT500 passes it thru to the
> amp
> unless the KAT is tuning a high SWR. The problem is that the amp goes into
> fault before the KAT can OPEN the key line. Firmware in the KAT with some
> delay is not the answer...it's already too slow for the amp. If there is
> any
> programmable delay in the KAT, then a firmware change might be to speed
> that
> up if possible. But I doubt that it is possible since it's a relay opening
> in the KAT which requires some milliseconds.
> I'm guessing the only Elecraft solution is to delay the amp's response to
> the high SWR so it doesn't "Fault" giving the KAT time to open the key
> line.
> So the change in firmware we are waiting on is for the KPA amp.
> Help me if I'm missing something here.
>
>
>
> -----
> Chuck, KE9UW
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KAT500-Help-with-KeyLine-Interrupt-on-KPA500-Video-tp7566844p7566890.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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alsopb

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500(Video)

This whole issue has been solved by VHF/UHF stations a long time ago.
They use a sequencer to key and unkey various components with
appropriate delays to prevent damage.

They can be built or bought fairly cheaply.

Yes it would be desirable to have the "sequencing" be automatic. One
"size" is unlikely to fit all though.

73 de Brian/K3KO
On 12/9/2012 15:02, Igor Sokolov wrote:

> IMHO adapting amplifier to work with KAT500 is not the right way of
> doing it because KAT500 is supposed to work with many different amps of
> 600 watt class.
> Yes, PTT is generated by the radio and then passed to KAT500. KAT500
> should generate it's own PTT signal for PA based on it's own KAT500
> status and incoming PTT signal from the radio. If incoming PTT is
> present and antenna is matched then KAT500 generates PTT for the amp.
> This will create additional delay equal to switching time of KAT500
> relays (minimum) plus some time required to analyze frequency and bring
> KAT500 to matching state. That is the price to pay for use of the
> automatic tuner.
> This will exclude PA faults and relays hot switching in KAT500.
> But then this feature can be user selectable. If you do not need it just
> do not use it.
> The question remains, is it possible to do it all in the firmware or
> hardware mods will be required.
>
> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ke9uw" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 6:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on
> KPA500(Video)
>
>
>> The PTT is generated by the transceiver. The KAT500 passes it thru to
>> the amp
>> unless the KAT is tuning a high SWR. The problem is that the amp goes
>> into
>> fault before the KAT can OPEN the key line. Firmware in the KAT with some
>> delay is not the answer...it's already too slow for the amp. If there
>> is any
>> programmable delay in the KAT, then a firmware change might be to
>> speed that
>> up if possible. But I doubt that it is possible since it's a relay
>> opening
>> in the KAT which requires some milliseconds.
>> I'm guessing the only Elecraft solution is to delay the amp's response to
>> the high SWR so it doesn't "Fault" giving the KAT time to open the key
>> line.
>> So the change in firmware we are waiting on is for the KPA amp.
>> Help me if I'm missing something here.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Chuck, KE9UW
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KAT500-Help-with-KeyLine-Interrupt-on-KPA500-Video-tp7566844p7566890.html
>>
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
> -----
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>
>

-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Igor Sokolov-2

Re: [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on KPA500(Video)

Brian,
I fully agree that external sequencer could solve some of the issues
discussed. Still I have couple of notes.

1)Sequencers are not designed to work with automatic ATUs because the amount
of time required for ATU to reach tuned status is not known forehead.
Therefore PTT signal to PA should be generated by ATU because only ATU
"knows" when tuned status is achieved.

2) Since there is "PTT for PA" connector is already build into ATU, why not
allow user to set programmable delay thus excluding the necessity for a
separate sequencer? When I go on expedition every extra box (with associated
cables and connectors) is counted.

73, Igor UA9CDC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Alsop" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on
KPA500(Video)

> This whole issue has been solved by VHF/UHF stations a long time ago. They
> use a sequencer to key and unkey various components with appropriate
> delays to prevent damage.
>
> They can be built or bought fairly cheaply.
>
> Yes it would be desirable to have the "sequencing" be automatic. One
> "size" is unlikely to fit all though.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
> On 12/9/2012 15:02, Igor Sokolov wrote:
>> IMHO adapting amplifier to work with KAT500 is not the right way of
>> doing it because KAT500 is supposed to work with many different amps of
>> 600 watt class.
>> Yes, PTT is generated by the radio and then passed to KAT500. KAT500
>> should generate it's own PTT signal for PA based on it's own KAT500
>> status and incoming PTT signal from the radio. If incoming PTT is
>> present and antenna is matched then KAT500 generates PTT for the amp.
>> This will create additional delay equal to switching time of KAT500
>> relays (minimum) plus some time required to analyze frequency and bring
>> KAT500 to matching state. That is the price to pay for use of the
>> automatic tuner.
>> This will exclude PA faults and relays hot switching in KAT500.
>> But then this feature can be user selectable. If you do not need it just
>> do not use it.
>> The question remains, is it possible to do it all in the firmware or
>> hardware mods will be required.
>>
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ke9uw" <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 6:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] Help with KeyLine Interrupt on
>> KPA500(Video)
>>
>>
>>> The PTT is generated by the transceiver. The KAT500 passes it thru to
>>> the amp
>>> unless the KAT is tuning a high SWR. The problem is that the amp goes
>>> into
>>> fault before the KAT can OPEN the key line. Firmware in the KAT with
>>> some
>>> delay is not the answer...it's already too slow for the amp. If there
>>> is any
>>> programmable delay in the KAT, then a firmware change might be to
>>> speed that
>>> up if possible. But I doubt that it is possible since it's a relay
>>> opening
>>> in the KAT which requires some milliseconds.
>>> I'm guessing the only Elecraft solution is to delay the amp's response
>>> to
>>> the high SWR so it doesn't "Fault" giving the KAT time to open the key
>>> line.
>>> So the change in firmware we are waiting on is for the KPA amp.
>>> Help me if I'm missing something here.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Chuck, KE9UW
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KAT500-Help-with-KeyLine-Interrupt-on-KPA500-Video-tp7566844p7566890.html
>>>
>>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2634/5446 - Release Date: 12/08/12
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2634/5446 - Release Date: 12/08/12
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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