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KAT500 antenna selection

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ANDY DURBIN

KAT500 antenna selection

The KAT500 has continuous frequency coverage for saving and selecting tuning solutions and is not constrained to amateur band limits. However, the antenna selection can only be defined for the amateur bands.

Does the KAT500 simply use the antenna selection defined for the amateur band closest to the out of band operating frequency?

73,
Andy, k3wyc
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Lyn WØLEN

Re: KAT500 antenna selection

Andy -

You bring up some good points, and I will be watching for the input from the
assembled brain trust.

One issue I have with the KAT500 is that it only goes down to 160 meters.
My previous tuner would handle much lower frequencies, allowing me to work
630 meters. No such luck with the KAT500. If there is a workaround, I'd
like to hear what it is.

Also keep in mind that tuning it on "off band" frequencies requires that you
transmit a signal of at least a minimal value ... which is technically not
legal.

73
Lyn, WØLEN

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Andy Durbin
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 11:10 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] KAT500 antenna selection

The KAT500 has continuous frequency coverage for saving and selecting tuning
solutions and is not constrained to amateur band limits. However, the
antenna selection can only be defined for the amateur bands.

Does the KAT500 simply use the antenna selection defined for the amateur
band closest to the out of band operating frequency?

73,
Andy, k3wyc
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ANDY DURBIN

Re: KAT500 antenna selection

"Also keep in mind that tuning it on "off band" frequencies requires that you
transmit a signal of at least a minimal value ... which is technically not
legal."

No that's not true. The KAT500 can be set to any frequency within its operating range by sending it the frequency on the serial bus using either the "F" word or the "FA" word. See the "KAT500 Serial Command Reference" for more detail.

No transmission is required to set the operating frequency of a KAT500.

73,
Andy, k3wyc

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: KAT500 antenna selection

In reply to this post by Lyn WØLEN

For gosh sake, there are published specifications for the KAT500. Page
2 of the manual. If you are trying to use it outside of the published
specification then you are accepting the role of a very under paid
design engineer.    Talk to your boss about a pay raise but don't blame
it on Elecraft or the KAT500.

If it doesn't do what you need and your needs are outside of the
specifications, then one needs to ask "why did I purchase this item?".
The fact it does not cover 630 meters is understandable and is not a
fault of Elecraft or the KAT500.   The frequency range covered, per the
specs, is 1.8 to 54 MHz, continuous.

I have no sympathy, patience or understanding as to why someone wants to
use an item outside of the design specifications. It just makes no
sense at all. I often say if one wants to know where the issue lies, go
look in the mirror.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 3/7/2020 1:09 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

> Andy -
>
> You bring up some good points, and I will be watching for the input from the
> assembled brain trust.
>
> One issue I have with the KAT500 is that it only goes down to 160 meters.
> My previous tuner would handle much lower frequencies, allowing me to work
> 630 meters. No such luck with the KAT500. If there is a workaround, I'd
> like to hear what it is.
>
> Also keep in mind that tuning it on "off band" frequencies requires that you
> transmit a signal of at least a minimal value ... which is technically not
> legal.
>
> 73
> Lyn, WØLEN
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Andy Durbin
> Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 11:10 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] KAT500 antenna selection
>
> The KAT500 has continuous frequency coverage for saving and selecting tuning
> solutions and is not constrained to amateur band limits. However, the
> antenna selection can only be defined for the amateur bands.
>
> Does the KAT500 simply use the antenna selection defined for the amateur
> band closest to the out of band operating frequency?
>
> 73,
> Andy, k3wyc
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>

Lyn WØLEN

Re: KAT500 antenna selection

Bob -

If you are addressing me, I am afraid that you are misinterpreting my remarks.

I bought the unit knowing full well what the tradeoffs were. The capabilities it has more than offset that deficiency.

I just wish it also covered 630, but apparently "shame on me" for even suggesting there might be a feature or two that could be beneficially added.

73
Lyn, WØLEN

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 1:27 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 antenna selection

For gosh sake, there are published specifications for the KAT500. Page
2 of the manual. If you are trying to use it outside of the published
specification then you are accepting the role of a very under paid
design engineer. Talk to your boss about a pay raise but don't blame
it on Elecraft or the KAT500.

If it doesn't do what you need and your needs are outside of the
specifications, then one needs to ask "why did I purchase this item?".
The fact it does not cover 630 meters is understandable and is not a
fault of Elecraft or the KAT500. The frequency range covered, per the
specs, is 1.8 to 54 MHz, continuous.

I have no sympathy, patience or understanding as to why someone wants to
use an item outside of the design specifications. It just makes no
sense at all. I often say if one wants to know where the issue lies, go
look in the mirror.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 3/7/2020 1:09 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

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Lyn WØLEN

Re: KAT500 antenna selection

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

Andy

I didnt say set the operating frequency.

I said tuning it.

73

Lyn, WØLEN

From: Andy Durbin [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 1:22 PM
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 antenna selection

"Also keep in mind that tuning it on "off band" frequencies requires that
you
transmit a signal of at least a minimal value ... which is technically not
legal."

No that's not true. The KAT500 can be set to any frequency within its
operating range by sending it the frequency on the serial bus using either
the "F" word or the "FA" word. See the "KAT500 Serial Command Reference"
for more detail.

No transmission is required to set the operating frequency of a KAT500.

73,

Andy, k3wyc

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ANDY DURBIN

Re: KAT500 antenna selection

"I didn’t say “set the operating frequency.” I said “tuning it.”

I have complete manual control over L, C, and C side without transmitting. I can, therefore, set a tuning solution for any frequency bin within the KAT500 frequency range without transmitting. I can also recall a stored tuning solution for any frequency without transmitting. I think both would qualify as "tuning it".

What would be true is that AutoTune cannot be performed without transmitting.

What I actually wanted to do this morning was listen to WWV on 5 MHz and I wanted to use my 40 m dipole. That antenna was not selectable. I later found it could be selected if I changed the 60 m enabled antennas to include the 40 m dipole.

73,
Andy, k3wyc

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Dick Dievendorff-4

Re: KAT500 antenna selection

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

Band transition frequencies for K3, KAT500, KPA1500 are:

1500 <= BAND160 < 3000 kHz
3000 <= BAND80 < 4800
4800 <= BAND60 < 6000
6000 <= BAND40 < 9000
9000 <= BAND30 < 13000
13000 <= BAND20 < 17000
17000 <= BAND17 < 19000
19000 <= BAND15 < 23000
23000 <= BAND12 < 26000
26000 <= BAND10 < 38000
38000 <= BAND6 < 54200

KX2, KX3, and KXPA100 use a 4500 kHz transition frequency between BAND80 and
BAND60.

73 de Dick, K6KR

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Andy Durbin
Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2020 09:10
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] KAT500 antenna selection

The KAT500 has continuous frequency coverage for saving and selecting tuning
solutions and is not constrained to amateur band limits. However, the
antenna selection can only be defined for the amateur bands.

Does the KAT500 simply use the antenna selection defined for the amateur
band closest to the out of band operating frequency?

73,
Andy, k3wyc
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Rick Bates, NK7I

Re: KAT500 antenna selection

In reply to this post by Lyn WØLEN

I'll submit that the KAT500 was designed long before 630 meters was
generally open and the values needed to present a low SWR are far larger
than needed elsewhere. Anything below 160M is a 'specialty' band that
far fewer will attempt. However you COULD go through the values that
the KAT500 offers manually and see if something could work.

You could use an antenna analyzer in SWR mode (fixed freq not sweep) to
tune the antenna at almost any frequency (at flea power, all legally).

Rick NK7I

On 3/7/2020 11:09 AM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

Edward R Cole

Re: KAT500 antenna selection

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

630m is a 7-KHz wide band. Probably not requiring an auto-tuner.

Most on 630m will be running a very short antenna in terms of
wavelength which usually incorporates a large loading coil in series.

My 630m antenna is an Inverted-L 43 by 122 feet and I have a base
coil to ground which tunes out reactance with a movable
tap. Matching to 50-ohms is done a couple turns up from the cold
end. 2:1 SWR is 5-KHz wide. Efficiency is 4%. Radiation resistance
is 0.8 ohms. EIRP = 4.15w. My K3 drives a 100w surplus NDB
transmitter at 0.1 mw.

I QRV on 600m in 2012 as WD2XSH/45 (experimental license)

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
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Lyn WØLEN

Re: KAT500 antenna selection

In reply to this post by Rick Bates, NK7I

Thanks for that, Rick.

I have done as you suggested, and while I have not found a "good" match on 630, I have found what I believe is a "somewhat workable" match for use under QRP (< 2 watts) conditions with my existing 360 foot antenna.

If anyone here wants to try a contact, I would suggest FT8 on 0.474200 at 900 Hz as a good starting point.

Rick, you and I worked on 160m FT8 back in December, and are a bit over 1400 miles apart. When I last experimented with 630, I made a number of contacts at about that distance in the late evening hours. Do you have 630m?

73
Lyn, WØLEN

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rick Bates, NK7I
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 7:39 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 antenna selection

I'll submit that the KAT500 was designed long before 630 meters was
generally open and the values needed to present a low SWR are far larger
than needed elsewhere. Anything below 160M is a 'specialty' band that
far fewer will attempt. However you COULD go through the values that
the KAT500 offers manually and see if something could work.

You could use an antenna analyzer in SWR mode (fixed freq not sweep) to
tune the antenna at almost any frequency (at flea power, all legally).

Rick NK7I

On 3/7/2020 11:09 AM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

KENT TRIMBLE

Re: KAT500 antenna selection

In reply to this post by Lyn WØLEN

Deja Vu.

Virtually none of the U.S. manufacturers after WW-II (with some
exceptions) included 160-meters in their transmitters or ham-band only
receivers for at least three reasons: 1) LORAN precluded use in some
parts of the United States; (2) small urban lots precluded dipoles in
the air, and long radials precluded verticals on the ground; and (3) the
market wasn't there. It wasn't until LORAN disappeared and hams got
interested in 160 that the band started showing up on imported Japanese
transceivers.

Until a substantial commercial market develops, 630 meters will be
home-brewed only.

73,

Kent K9ZTV

On 3/7/2020 3:07 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

> Bob -
>
> If you are addressing me, I am afraid that you are misinterpreting my remarks.
>
> I bought the unit knowing full well what the tradeoffs were. The capabilities it has more than offset that deficiency.
>
> I just wish it also covered 630, but apparently "shame on me" for even suggesting there might be a feature or two that could be beneficially added.
>
> 73
> Lyn, WØLEN
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob McGraw K4TAX
> Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 1:27 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 antenna selection
>
> If it doesn't do what you need and your needs are outside of the
> specifications, then one needs to ask "why did I purchase this item?".
> The fact it does not cover 630 meters is understandable and is not a
> fault of Elecraft or the KAT500. The frequency range covered, per the
> specs, is 1.8 to 54 MHz, continuous.
>
> I have no sympathy, patience or understanding as to why someone wants to
> use an item outside of the design specifications. It just makes no
> sense at all. I often say if one wants to know where the issue lies, go
> look in the mirror.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>

--
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Lyn WØLEN

Re: KAT500 antenna selection

Kent -

In addition, special rules are in place for operation on 630 meters and 2200 meters:

Section 97.313(g)(2) of the rules requires that, prior to starting operation in either band, radio amateurs must notify UTC that they intend operate by submitting their call signs, intended band(s) of operation, and the coordinates of their antenna’s fixed location. The new rules do not permit any mobile operation.

http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-opens-630-and-2200-meter-bands-stations-must-notify-utc-before-operating

I received approval to do so in November, 2017. Here’s the website for those who may be interested:

https://utc.org/plc-database-amateur-notification-process/

73

Lyn, WØLEN

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of KENT TRIMBLE
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2020 9:35 AM
To: Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 antenna selection

Deja Vu.

Virtually none of the U.S. manufacturers after WW-II (with some

exceptions) included 160-meters in their transmitters or ham-band only

receivers for at least three reasons: 1) LORAN precluded use in some

parts of the United States; (2) small urban lots precluded dipoles in

the air, and long radials precluded verticals on the ground; and (3) the

market wasn't there. It wasn't until LORAN disappeared and hams got

interested in 160 that the band started showing up on imported Japanese

transceivers.

Until a substantial commercial market develops, 630 meters will be

home-brewed only.

73,

Kent K9ZTV

On 3/7/2020 3:07 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

> Bob -

>

> If you are addressing me, I am afraid that you are misinterpreting my remarks.

>

> I bought the unit knowing full well what the tradeoffs were. The capabilities it has more than offset that deficiency.

>

> I just wish it also covered 630, but apparently "shame on me" for even suggesting there might be a feature or two that could be beneficially added.

>

> 73

> Lyn, WØLEN

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Bob McGraw K4TAX

> Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 1:27 PM

> To: [hidden email]

> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 antenna selection

>

> If it doesn't do what you need and your needs are outside of the

> specifications, then one needs to ask "why did I purchase this item?".

> The fact it does not cover 630 meters is understandable and is not a

> fault of Elecraft or the KAT500. The frequency range covered, per the

> specs, is 1.8 to 54 MHz, continuous.

>

> I have no sympathy, patience or understanding as to why someone wants to

> use an item outside of the design specifications. It just makes no

> sense at all. I often say if one wants to know where the issue lies, go

> look in the mirror.

>

> 73

>

> Bob, K4TAX

>

>

--

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