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KAT500 auto trainer

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ANDY DURBIN

KAT500 auto trainer

Popular wisdom is that KAT500 should be trained for all frequencies in a band and then operated in manual mode. This is what I do at my station but I find the training process to be a bit tedious and I'm considering automating the training process.

My idea is that, within the current band, the rig TX frequency will be set in sequence to the center of each KAT500 frequency "bin" . At each bin center auto tune will be initiated at low power. If the result is below a preset SWR threshold the next "bin" will be selected and the steps repeated. If the auto tune does not result in an SWR below threshold then the sequence will be paused to allow a manual tune attempt.

All the required hardware interfaces are already implemented in my Arduino controller and the code requirements don't seem to be too complex.

Has anyone attempted this auto training idea before and, if so, what problems were experienced?

Andy, k3wyc

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K8TE

Re: KAT500 auto trainer

I have not Andy, but I have, and often use, used K3_EZ for the K3 internal
tuner to measure/graph VSWR across an entire band. I suggest this
capability belongs in the KAT500 and KPA1500 firmware, if it can fit. I
have enough tedium in my life.

Automating this training is a valid need. Accomplishing it without an
external device would be very welcome! If it must be external due to
insufficient firmware memory availability, so be it. I know how to spell
Arduino and hope to know more eventually. I hope you will share what you
are able to accomplish regarding this tedious task.

73, Bill, K8TE

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ANDY DURBIN

Re: KAT500 auto trainer

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

Back on Dec 7th I posted "Popular wisdom is that KAT500 should be trained for all frequencies in a band and then operated in manual mode. This is what I do at my station but I find the training process to be a bit tedious and I'm considering automating the training process."

I now have a test version working. It currently has 2 functions:

1. Sweep and Autotune - Set TX frequency and KAT frequency to center of first bin of current band. When frequencies are verified then initiate autotune and TX with autotune power. When tune complete advance to next bin center frequency and repeat.
2. Sweep and check SWR - Set TX frequency and KAT frequency to center of first bin of current band. When frequencies are verified then TX with 5 W for 2 seconds to allow a check of LP-100A indicated SWR or complex load. Then advance to next bin center frequency and repeat.

The tuning solution for first autotune pass seems to be rather poor for some bins but it improves with a second or third pass. (I understand the result depends on the power setting but there seems to be more to it than that. Auto fine tune is enabled. )

My last autotune sweep of the entire 160 m band took 1 minute 10 seconds. The check sweep took 1 minute 20 seconds. Check sweep time should be constant but the time for the autotune sweep will be quite variable.

A future refinement of the check sweep may be to set an SWR threshold and log all frequencies that don't indicate better than that value. These would then be presented in sequence for manual adjustment.

So, still a work in progress, but appears to have potential. And yes, there will be an option to CW ident after tuning each bin although my preference is to minimize time on frequency.

Andy, k3wyc

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Dave wo2x

Re: KAT500 auto trainer

Sounds like a nice project Andy. I just cleared tuner memories on my 1500 and tuned every 10 kHz starting at 3.505. My issue is rain or ice affects antenna tuning.

A wish list item for my 1500 would be ability to export/import antenna tuner settings on demand after they are set up. That way if you need to touch up a few bins you could reload the exported tuner settings once you are back in dry weather.

Dave wo2x

Sent from my waxed string and tin cans.

> On Dec 14, 2019, at 6:28 PM, Andy Durbin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Back on Dec 7th I posted "Popular wisdom is that KAT500 should be trained for all frequencies in a band and then operated in manual mode. This is what I do at my station but I find the training process to be a bit tedious and I'm considering automating the training process."
>
> I now have a test version working. It currently has 2 functions:
>
>
> 1. Sweep and Autotune - Set TX frequency and KAT frequency to center of first bin of current band. When frequencies are verified then initiate autotune and TX with autotune power. When tune complete advance to next bin center frequency and repeat.
> 2. Sweep and check SWR - Set TX frequency and KAT frequency to center of first bin of current band. When frequencies are verified then TX with 5 W for 2 seconds to allow a check of LP-100A indicated SWR or complex load. Then advance to next bin center frequency and repeat.
>
> The tuning solution for first autotune pass seems to be rather poor for some bins but it improves with a second or third pass. (I understand the result depends on the power setting but there seems to be more to it than that. Auto fine tune is enabled. )
>
> My last autotune sweep of the entire 160 m band took 1 minute 10 seconds. The check sweep took 1 minute 20 seconds. Check sweep time should be constant but the time for the autotune sweep will be quite variable.
>
> A future refinement of the check sweep may be to set an SWR threshold and log all frequencies that don't indicate better than that value. These would then be presented in sequence for manual adjustment.
>
> So, still a work in progress, but appears to have potential. And yes, there will be an option to CW ident after tuning each bin although my preference is to minimize time on frequency.
>
> Andy, k3wyc
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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ANDY DURBIN

Re: KAT500 auto trainer

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

"A wish list item for my 1500 would be ability to export/import antenna tuner settings on demand after they are set up. That way if you need to touch up a few bins you could reload the exported tuner settings once you are back in dry weather. "

I'd be surprised if you can't do that now. For the KAT500 I use the utility to save the configuration and it can be restored later. Each config file is assigned a unique date/time stamp and I append notes to that standard file name. I saved multiple configs while experimenting with my trainer.

The config file contains all the history of the tuning solutions for each band and bin.

73,
Andy, k3wyc

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: KAT500 auto trainer

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

I didn’t find it a challenge at all. I started on 160M and finished on 6M all in about an hour. Those values are still good some 1 year later.

It is really nice to operate 160M - 6M at 500W (except 60M & 30M) and only change the frequency on my K3S. Nothing tedious about that.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 14, 2019, at 5:40 PM, Andy Durbin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Back on Dec 7th I posted "Popular wisdom is that KAT500 should be trained for all frequencies in a band and then operated in manual mode. This is what I do at my station but I find the training process to be a bit tedious and I'm considering automating the training process."
>
> I now have a test version working. It currently has 2 functions:
>
>
> 1. Sweep and Autotune - Set TX frequency and KAT frequency to center of first bin of current band. When frequencies are verified then initiate autotune and TX with autotune power. When tune complete advance to next bin center frequency and repeat.
> 2. Sweep and check SWR - Set TX frequency and KAT frequency to center of first bin of current band. When frequencies are verified then TX with 5 W for 2 seconds to allow a check of LP-100A indicated SWR or complex load. Then advance to next bin center frequency and repeat.
>
> The tuning solution for first autotune pass seems to be rather poor for some bins but it improves with a second or third pass. (I understand the result depends on the power setting but there seems to be more to it than that. Auto fine tune is enabled. )
>
> My last autotune sweep of the entire 160 m band took 1 minute 10 seconds. The check sweep took 1 minute 20 seconds. Check sweep time should be constant but the time for the autotune sweep will be quite variable.
>
> A future refinement of the check sweep may be to set an SWR threshold and log all frequencies that don't indicate better than that value. These would then be presented in sequence for manual adjustment.
>
> So, still a work in progress, but appears to have potential. And yes, there will be an option to CW ident after tuning each bin although my preference is to minimize time on frequency.
>
> Andy, k3wyc
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>

Dave wo2x

Re: KAT500 auto trainer

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

Never thought of that.

Thanks for the smack in the head reminder :-)

Dave wo2x

Sent from my waxed string and tin cans.

> On Dec 14, 2019, at 7:29 PM, Andy Durbin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> "A wish list item for my 1500 would be ability to export/import antenna tuner settings on demand after they are set up. That way if you need to touch up a few bins you could reload the exported tuner settings once you are back in dry weather. "
>
>
> I'd be surprised if you can't do that now. For the KAT500 I use the utility to save the configuration and it can be restored later. Each config file is assigned a unique date/time stamp and I append notes to that standard file name. I saved multiple configs while experimenting with my trainer.
>
> The config file contains all the history of the tuning solutions for each band and bin.
>
> 73,
> Andy, k3wyc
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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kd4iz

Re: KAT500 auto trainer

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Bob,

My experience has been the same as yours. Extremely easy to do manually and stable.

Jack - kd4iz

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 19:40
To: Andy Durbin <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 auto trainer

I didn’t find it a challenge at all. I started on 160M and finished on 6M all in about an hour. Those values are still good some 1 year later.

It is really nice to operate 160M - 6M at 500W (except 60M & 30M) and only change the frequency on my K3S. Nothing tedious about that.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 14, 2019, at 5:40 PM, Andy Durbin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Back on Dec 7th I posted "Popular wisdom is that KAT500 should be trained for all frequencies in a band and then operated in manual mode. This is what I do at my station but I find the training process to be a bit tedious and I'm considering automating the training process."
>
> I now have a test version working. It currently has 2 functions:
>
>
> 1. Sweep and Autotune - Set TX frequency and KAT frequency to center of first bin of current band. When frequencies are verified then initiate autotune and TX with autotune power. When tune complete advance to next bin center frequency and repeat.
> 2. Sweep and check SWR - Set TX frequency and KAT frequency to center of first bin of current band. When frequencies are verified then TX with 5 W for 2 seconds to allow a check of LP-100A indicated SWR or complex load. Then advance to next bin center frequency and repeat.
>
> The tuning solution for first autotune pass seems to be rather poor
> for some bins but it improves with a second or third pass. (I
> understand the result depends on the power setting but there seems to
> be more to it than that. Auto fine tune is enabled. )
>
> My last autotune sweep of the entire 160 m band took 1 minute 10 seconds. The check sweep took 1 minute 20 seconds. Check sweep time should be constant but the time for the autotune sweep will be quite variable.
>
> A future refinement of the check sweep may be to set an SWR threshold and log all frequencies that don't indicate better than that value. These would then be presented in sequence for manual adjustment.
>
> So, still a work in progress, but appears to have potential. And yes, there will be an option to CW ident after tuning each bin although my preference is to minimize time on frequency.
>
> Andy, k3wyc
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]
>

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ANDY DURBIN

Re: KAT500 auto trainer

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

"Extremely easy to do manually and stable."

It is only because my 160 and 80 m OCFD is being modified frequently that I decided to develop the auto trainer. It takes multiple actions to tune a single bin and there are 20 bins for 160 m. If a multi-step task needs to be done infrequently the effort required to automate it is not justified. Do that task several times a week and the effort is easily justified.

Actions to auto tune at current frequency:

1. Inhibit the key line and wait for confirmation of inhibit
2. Initiate KAT500 auto tune (FT;)
3. Set Kenwood to TX Tune and set auto tune power
4. Wait for KAT500 FT response which indicates tune is complete
5. Set Kenwood TX Tune power back to 5 w then command RX
6. Wait for confirmation that TX has stopped
7. Enable the key line

Since that sequence had already been assigned to a single button push it was not too difficult to repeat it for each bin in the current band.

Andy, k3wyc

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: KAT500 auto trainer

If adjustments are required several times a week for the 160M antenna, I
would then question the electrical stability of the 160M antenna. In
otherwords, why and what is changing?

I see very little change in mine, wet, dry, ice, or snow. Usually I find
it to be 1:3:1 or less across the band, any frequency and at any season.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 12/15/2019 9:31 AM, Andy Durbin wrote:

> "Extremely easy to do manually and stable."
>
> It is only because my 160 and 80 m OCFD is being modified frequently that I decided to develop the auto trainer. It takes multiple actions to tune a single bin and there are 20 bins for 160 m. If a multi-step task needs to be done infrequently the effort required to automate it is not justified. Do that task several times a week and the effort is easily justified.
>
> Actions to auto tune at current frequency:
>
> 1. Inhibit the key line and wait for confirmation of inhibit
> 2. Initiate KAT500 auto tune (FT;)
> 3. Set Kenwood to TX Tune and set auto tune power
> 4. Wait for KAT500 FT response which indicates tune is complete
> 5. Set Kenwood TX Tune power back to 5 w then command RX
> 6. Wait for confirmation that TX has stopped
> 7. Enable the key line
>
> Since that sequence had already been assigned to a single button push it was not too difficult to repeat it for each bin in the current band.
>
> Andy, k3wyc
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

ANDY DURBIN

Re: KAT500 auto trainer

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

"I would then question the electrical stability of the 160M antenna. In other words, why and what is changing?"

I change it. Changes include the total length, feed point position, and the feed point matching L and C values. It's an experimental antenna.

One would not expect to make many DX contacts on 160 m with an OCFD strung from a back yard block wall at 5 feet above ground. I enjoy the results that contradict that assumption. Those unexpected results include E5-N, VP6D, and UA0.

Andy, k3wyc
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