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KAT500 serial cable

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David Christ

KAT500 serial cable

Does anyone have the wiring diagram for the KAT500 serial cable? Not the USB one but the one to connect with a real serial port.

David K0LUM
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F4GXG

Re: KAT500 serial cable

Hello,
I push this message again, because I have the same question / issue...
I am building a specific Arduino interface between a microHam stationMaster and the KAT500, but unfortunately I am not able to find any wiring/voltage concerning this serial «3.5 stereo jack» connector.
If someone has the information, thanks in advance...
I assume that it's RS232 compliant (so MAX232 needed for Arduino interface...) but even that, not sure...
73 Jean F4GXG

Stan Gibbs, KR7C

Re: KAT500 serial cable

In reply to this post by David Christ

The KX3 schematic shows the following:

RxD = tip
TxD = ring
GND = sleeve

73, Stan - KR7C

Jim Brown-10

Re: KAT500 serial cable

On 1/19/2014 1:50 PM, Stan Gibbs, KR7C wrote:
> The KX3 schematic shows the following:
>
> RxD = tip
> TxD = ring
> GND = sleeve

My computers have serial ports, but the cable from Elecraft was USB. I
made myself a serial cable for my KAT500 from a hi-fi cable with a 3.5mm
TRS plug on one end, split out to a pair of RCA plugs on the other. I
cut off the RCAs and soldered the cable to a DB9 connector. Works fine.
I got the pin-out from the KAT500 manual. I suspect it's the same as for
the KX3.

73, Jim K9YC
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: KAT500 serial cable

The KX3, KAT500 and the XG3 "serial" cables are the same at the
equipment end - whether they are USB or serial.

They are not entirely RS-232 complaint - the level for TXD is zero volts
to 5 volts, but RXD will accept the full RS-232 positive and negative
swings with no problem (hopefully I did not interchange RXD and TXD - if
so, just swap them). The TXD voltage range works well with modern
computers, but I cannot make specific statements about the Ardrino
interfacing.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/19/2014 5:12 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 1/19/2014 1:50 PM, Stan Gibbs, KR7C wrote:
>> The KX3 schematic shows the following:
>>
>> RxD = tip
>> TxD = ring
>> GND = sleeve
>
> My computers have serial ports, but the cable from Elecraft was USB. I
> made myself a serial cable for my KAT500 from a hi-fi cable with a
> 3.5mm TRS plug on one end, split out to a pair of RCA plugs on the
> other. I cut off the RCAs and soldered the cable to a DB9 connector.
> Works fine. I got the pin-out from the KAT500 manual. I suspect it's
> the same as for the KX3.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
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F4GXG

Re: KAT500 serial cable

OK,
In fact I planned to use a MAX232 because I though that it was necessary for the kat500.
At the end it seems that the kat500 is TTL compatible, so it should be easier to connect with an Arduino.
If I am right, a direct connection should be possible, without MAX232.
Anyone to confirm?
73 Jean
73

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: KAT500 serial cable

Jean,

I mis-spoke. I do not have the schematic for the KAT500. but the
circuit for the "RS-232" interface used in the XG3 has become sort of
the standard at Elecraft as far as I know. I initially said it went to
+5 volts, but after checking I see it can go to +9 volts. If your
Ardrino TTL compatible sink cannot accept +9 volts without damage, you
should use the RS-232 connection. It will work fine with relatively
short cables (but not the very long cables supported by real RS-232
interfaces).

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/19/2014 6:14 PM, F4GXG wrote:

> OK,
> In fact I planned to use a MAX232 because I though that it was necessary
> for the kat500.
> At the end it seems that the kat500 is TTL compatible, so it should be
> easier to connect with an Arduino.
> If I am right, a direct connection should be possible, without MAX232.
> Anyone to confirm?
> 73 Jean
> 73
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KAT500-serial-cable-tp7579847p7583091.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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Jim Brown-10

Re: KAT500 serial cable

On 1/19/2014 3:46 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> I do not have the schematic for the KAT500. but the circuit for the
> "RS-232" interface used in the XG3 has become sort of the standard at
> Elecraft as far as I know. I initially said it went to +5 volts, but
> after checking I see it can go to +9 volts. If your Ardrino TTL
> compatible sink cannot accept +9 volts without damage, you should use
> the RS-232 connection. It will work fine with relatively short cables
> (but not the very long cables supported by real RS-232 interfaces).

Not quite. RS232 is a NON-impedance matched system, and it is
unbalanced. That is, the source output Z is low and the receiving input
Z is high, so almost no current flows, resistance of the "high"
conductor does not matter. The distance limit on RS232 is the
capacitance of the interconnecting cable. What DOES matter is the
resistance of the "return" conductor, as we will see from the next
paragraphs

The voltage limit is dependent to a great extent on noise in the
circuit, which, because RS232 is unbalanced, is essentially equal to
the noise voltage between the two interconnected pieces of gear. That
voltage is established by equipment powered from different AC outlets,
and/or grounded at different points, and is largely harmonics of the AC
power system. It is not uncommon for the AC-related noise voltage to be
in the range of several hundred milivolts.

Thus, if we are concerned with carrying RS232 signals a long distance,
we need cable with very low capacitance between conductors, and we need
to minimize the voltage difference between the chassis of the equipment
we are connecting. All cables in the CAT5/6/7 family make excellent
serial cables, both because their capacitance is quite low, and because
they are very good twisted pairs. When used in this manner, each
signaling circuit should be carried on a pair. For example, Orange to
Pin 2, Blue to Pin 3, Or/Wh and Bl/Wh to ground. The voltage drop on the
return circuit can also be reduced by wiring all un-used conductors to
ground at both ends.

Beginning in the 90's, we have been using lots of very complex DSP
equipment in large pro sound systems, and at least in those days, we
configured and controlled them on RS232 circuits that were often in the
range of 200 ft. We did this using nothing more sophisticated than low
capacitance cable between ordinary RS232 interfaces and carefully
avoiding large voltage differences between the interconnected equipment.

73, Jim K9YC

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Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604

Re: KAT500 serial cable

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

I'd been looking at cheap and dirty between another TTL level device to
the KX3 (I presume the KXPA100 is similar). The KX3 schematic looks as
if the putput may go as high as +12V, but a series resistor and diode
clamp at +5V should protect a TTL equivalent input. I used to know good
values, but it's been a long time since I messed with this. But a 2K2
series resistor, and a Schottky diode clamp should win, but that's just
what leaps to mind, please check your application.

Don has indicated that the significant circuit is an Elecraft
"standard", but I wouldn't mind getting verification that the KXPA100 is
the same.
73, doug

On 19-Jan-14 15:46, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Jean,
>
> I mis-spoke. I do not have the schematic for the KAT500. but the
> circuit for the "RS-232" interface used in the XG3 has become sort of
> the standard at Elecraft as far as I know. I initially said it went to
> +5 volts, but after checking I see it can go to +9 volts. If your
> Ardrino TTL compatible sink cannot accept +9 volts without damage, you
> should use the RS-232 connection. It will work fine with relatively
> short cables (but not the very long cables supported by real RS-232
> interfaces).
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 1/19/2014 6:14 PM, F4GXG wrote:
>> OK,
>> In fact I planned to use a MAX232 because I though that it was necessary
>> for the kat500.
>> At the end it seems that the kat500 is TTL compatible, so it should be
>> easier to connect with an Arduino.
>> If I am right, a direct connection should be possible, without MAX232.
>> Anyone to confirm?
>> 73 Jean
>> 73
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KAT500-serial-cable-tp7579847p7583091.html
>>
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Jack Brindle-2

Re: KAT500 serial cable

Consider using a MAX232 anyway. The signals need to be inverted to be compatible with standard UART interfaces. So even if the protective diodes work, an inverter is needed to get the signals to the proper levels.

Jack B, W6FB

On Jan 19, 2014, at 6:03 PM, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197 <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'd been looking at cheap and dirty between another TTL level device to the KX3 (I presume the KXPA100 is similar). The KX3 schematic looks as if the putput may go as high as +12V, but a series resistor and diode clamp at +5V should protect a TTL equivalent input. I used to know good values, but it's been a long time since I messed with this. But a 2K2 series resistor, and a Schottky diode clamp should win, but that's just what leaps to mind, please check your application.
>
> Don has indicated that the significant circuit is an Elecraft "standard", but I wouldn't mind getting verification that the KXPA100 is the same.
> 73, doug
>
>
> On 19-Jan-14 15:46, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Jean,
>>
>> I mis-spoke. I do not have the schematic for the KAT500. but the
>> circuit for the "RS-232" interface used in the XG3 has become sort of
>> the standard at Elecraft as far as I know. I initially said it went to
>> +5 volts, but after checking I see it can go to +9 volts. If your
>> Ardrino TTL compatible sink cannot accept +9 volts without damage, you
>> should use the RS-232 connection. It will work fine with relatively
>> short cables (but not the very long cables supported by real RS-232
>> interfaces).
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 1/19/2014 6:14 PM, F4GXG wrote:
>>> OK,
>>> In fact I planned to use a MAX232 because I though that it was necessary
>>> for the kat500.
>>> At the end it seems that the kat500 is TTL compatible, so it should be
>>> easier to connect with an Arduino.
>>> If I am right, a direct connection should be possible, without MAX232.
>>> Anyone to confirm?
>>> 73 Jean
>>> 73
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KAT500-serial-cable-tp7579847p7583091.html
>>>
>>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
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Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604

Re: KAT500 serial cable

If you're bit-banging, you can do the inversion in your software.
73, doug

On 19-Jan-14 18:39, Jack Brindle wrote:

> Consider using a MAX232 anyway. The signals need to be inverted to be compatible with standard UART interfaces. So even if the protective diodes work, an inverter is needed to get the signals to the proper levels.
>
> Jack B, W6FB
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2014, at 6:03 PM, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-717-1197 <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I'd been looking at cheap and dirty between another TTL level device to the KX3 (I presume the KXPA100 is similar). The KX3 schematic looks as if the putput may go as high as +12V, but a series resistor and diode clamp at +5V should protect a TTL equivalent input. I used to know good values, but it's been a long time since I messed with this. But a 2K2 series resistor, and a Schottky diode clamp should win, but that's just what leaps to mind, please check your application.
>>
>> Don has indicated that the significant circuit is an Elecraft "standard", but I wouldn't mind getting verification that the KXPA100 is the same.
>> 73, doug
>>
>>
>> On 19-Jan-14 15:46, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>>> Jean,
>>>
>>> I mis-spoke. I do not have the schematic for the KAT500. but the
>>> circuit for the "RS-232" interface used in the XG3 has become sort of
>>> the standard at Elecraft as far as I know. I initially said it went to
>>> +5 volts, but after checking I see it can go to +9 volts. If your
>>> Ardrino TTL compatible sink cannot accept +9 volts without damage, you
>>> should use the RS-232 connection. It will work fine with relatively
>>> short cables (but not the very long cables supported by real RS-232
>>> interfaces).
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>> On 1/19/2014 6:14 PM, F4GXG wrote:
>>>> OK,
>>>> In fact I planned to use a MAX232 because I though that it was necessary
>>>> for the kat500.
>>>> At the end it seems that the kat500 is TTL compatible, so it should be
>>>> easier to connect with an Arduino.
>>>> If I am right, a direct connection should be possible, without MAX232.
>>>> Anyone to confirm?
>>>> 73 Jean
>>>> 73
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KAT500-serial-cable-tp7579847p7583091.html
>>>>
>>>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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AD0ES

Re: KAT500 serial cable

In reply to this post by David Christ

Hi,

I purchased these:

http://www.amazon.com/WiiChuck-Nunchuck-Adapter-Converter-Connector/dp/B00H2CPNA6/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1390232966&sr=1-7&keywords=max232+rs232

to deal with my Arduino/Kat500 connection. Haven't actually used them yet, but they look well made.

Steve AD0ES

On Jan 20, 2014, at 8:17 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 serial cable

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F4GXG

Re: KAT500 serial cable

Hello,
I have built the first prototype of my interface and everything works very well!
It opens to me a new dimension in the use of the KAT500, via serial commands and Arduino microcontroler.

What I have done is :

Arduino TTL serial TX/RX connected to a classic MAX232 IC (TTL pins)
MAX 232 TX/RX RS232 pins side connected to the stereo Jack for KAT500 serial connector.

Jack 3.5 connector :
- tip : TX coming from the Arduino
- ring : RX coming from the Arduino
- ground :.....ground (HI)

And with 15 software lines in the Arduino, it's OK.
Remains to do the final hardware in a small box, and finalization of the software.

So : Thank you very much for your help and advices!

73's QRO from Jean F4GXG