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KAT500 tuner

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Alan. G4GNX

KAT500 tuner

Hi all.

I am contemplating purchasing a KPA500 amplifier to complement my K3.

I currently have a MFJ 998 tuner which is good for 1.5KW but I think that the KAT500 tuner from Elecraft will be a superior product. Would this be a sensible assumption?

If I also buy the KAT500, will it easily interface with my Icom IC700 and is there a specific setting that would allow me to use the IC7100 “Tune” button, which allows tuning at reduced power (ISTR it’s set at 10watts)?

73,

Alan. G4GNX
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Vic Rosenthal

Re: KAT500 tuner

It would be interesting to compare the toroids and capacitors in both products. My guess is that they would be similar, and the difference in ratings is based on the degree to which the manufacturer wishes to be conservative. As I've said on numerous occasions, MFJ products are rated in MFJ watts, which are half the size of regular watts (Pmfj = 2EI).

Vic 4X6GP/K2VCO

> On Aug 5, 2015, at 4:47 AM, G4GNX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> I am contemplating purchasing a KPA500 amplifier to complement my K3.
>
> I currently have a MFJ 998 tuner which is good for 1.5KW but I think that the KAT500 tuner from Elecraft will be a superior product. Would this be a sensible assumption?
>
> If I also buy the KAT500, will it easily interface with my Icom IC700 and is there a specific setting that would allow me to use the IC7100 “Tune” button, which allows tuning at reduced power (ISTR it’s set at 10watts)?
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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David Bunte

Re: KAT500 tuner

In reply to this post by Alan. G4GNX

Alan -

If you are satisfied with the performance of the MFJ tuner, you can
certainly give it a try. A friend of mine had one to sell a few years ago,
and let me try it on my very NON-resonant antenna. I have a 30' vertical
that requires a tuner on any except 30 meters. The tuner in the K3 handles
it quite well on 40 through 6 meters, but struggles on 80, where the native
SWR is about 18:1. The MFJ 998 could not achieve a decent match on 2 or 3
bands, including 40 meters, which is one of my favorite bands. I wanted to
get an amplifier, so I did not did not buy the 998. I now have the KAT500
and KPA500. The KAT500 has no trouble with those bands, so I can run my
amp at full power when and where I want... except for 80. For that band, I
switch to a Palstar AT-AUTO, and can run the amp at 500 watts. I know they
don't all get to the antenna, but I have only 30' of coax from there to the
antenna, and the coax is LMR600, so I have mitigated the losses somewhat.

A friend had a MFJ998 that he mounted outside in a weatherproof enclosure,
and ran 1500 watts to an inverted L. He was very happy with that setup,
until a tree fell on the enclosure and destroyed the tuner. He then bought
the MFJ998RT, and last I heard he was satisfied with it.

I am sorry, but I am not sure about the integration of the KAT500 with your
Icom 7100. Another friend used his Icom 7566PROIII with his KAT500, and
had to press Tune on the rig... and then Tune on the tuner... but once the
settings were memorized, then just a single DIT from the key, or a syllable
or two on SSB and the KAT500 was all set and ready to go.

73 de Dave - K9FN

On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 9:47 PM, G4GNX <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all.
>
> I am contemplating purchasing a KPA500 amplifier to complement my K3.
>
> I currently have a MFJ 998 tuner which is good for 1.5KW but I think that
> the KAT500 tuner from Elecraft will be a superior product. Would this be a
> sensible assumption?
>
> If I also buy the KAT500, will it easily interface with my Icom IC700 and
> is there a specific setting that would allow me to use the IC7100 “Tune”
> button, which allows tuning at reduced power (ISTR it’s set at 10watts)?
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

fromjusttheking

Re: KAT500 tuner

In reply to this post by Alan. G4GNX

Hi Alan,

I think I can give you some insight. I have the KAT500 auto tuner that I used first with my Icom IC-756Pro3, and now with my IC-7600. I also have an IC-7000 as well for mobile use, but have not used it with it, and since it doesn't have a built in auto tuner, I don't know for sure what amount of RF it may put out when a non-Icom auto tuner is connected to its Molex tuner port. For an Icom AH-4 for example, its specs state that tuning power required is 5-15 watts and that radiated power during tuning is less than 0.3 watt.

If you use the KAT500 with any rig that does have an internal automatic tuner, make absolutely sure that it is turned off at any time the KAT500 is in use. Internal auto tuners and external auto tuners do not cohabit well, consequently, any tune settings will be greatly suspect. Its either one or the other, never both in circuit at the same time.

I too intended to use it by pushing the TUNER on the rig, which puts out about 10 watts or so as all modern Icom transceivers do as far as I know. Unfortunately, the KAT500 really needs to see somewhere in the vicinity of about 30 watts RF out, in order to accurately tune the radio. I talked to Elecraft tech support extensively, (who by the way are about the best in the business, both professionally and technically) regarding getting different tune settings using the tuner button (at 10 watts out) on the rig vs manually setting power out to about 30 watts.
On the Elecraft website, in the FAQ's, it says:
Q: Can I use a 5 or 10 watt radio with the KAT500?A: The KAT500 can tune with 10 W but we recommend 20 W to 100 W for best tuning accuracy. If the KAT500 has already stored a tuning memory for the current frequency, it is possible to recall the tuned memory setting with less than 10 W. The KAT500 measures transmit frequency to automatically select tuning memories and antennas.
So, based on Elecraft tech support's recommendations, I manually used 30 watts to "train" the tuner to memorize all the frequencies I wanted to be stored, which worked very well, and continues to do so to this day. But that is WITHOUT using the TUNER button on the rig WITH a cable connected between Icom's TUNER Molex connector on the back of the rig, and the other end going to the back of the KAT500's TUNE jack and power jack.

The bottom line turned out to be that IF the rig's TUNER button is used to train or use the KAT500 to tune new frequencies (with the cable described above and because it only puts out 10 watts this way), the results you get will not be as accurate, or reliable as those you would get by manually using it using the TUNE button on the KAT500 itself (with no cable connected to the Molex connector on the rig going to the KAT500). All of this was verified by Elecraft.
In reality, using the TUNE button on the KAT500 is just as fast as using the tuner button on the rig with the sole exception that you DO have to set the power out to about 30 watts. It may well be that it will work similarly with your IC-7000.

Hope this gives you some insight as to what I found out. If you get the KAT500, you will love it!!! I do. Let us know how it works for you. I'm sure that others will be very interested as well.

73, Alan, AB6C

Original Message:
Message: 15Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 02:47:10 +0100
From: "G4GNX" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] KAT500 tuner
Message-ID: <D70706FE6C0142C6B7A0CFB5767F3475@Paramount>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Hi all.

I am contemplating purchasing a KPA500 amplifier to complement my K3.

I currently have a MFJ 998 tuner which is good for 1.5KW but I think that the KAT500 tuner from Elecraft will be a superior product. Would this be a sensible assumption?

If I also buy the KAT500, will it easily interface with my Icom IC700 and is there a specific setting that would allow me to use the IC7100 ?Tune? button, which allows tuning at reduced power (ISTR it?s set at 10watts)?

73,

Alan. G4GNX
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: KAT500 tuner

In reply to this post by Alan. G4GNX

Hi Alan,
Like you, I have an MFJ-998 auto tuner, but was never really satisfied with its integration with the Elecraft K3. I suggested to Martin that MFJ produce a cable to integrate with Elecraft radios, but that hasn't yet happened so far as I know.
Based on the superb tuning capability that the internal K3 tuner has, I decided to take the plunge on a KAT500. I can't be happier that I did. The integration with the K3 is seamless and pretty much flawless. The tuner follows my K3 wherever it goes, quickly and silently (silently because I've stored matches for all bands; on the initial tune there's of need a bit of clatter but nothing like the 998's) matching my two low wire dipoles on all bands including 6M, though 160M is a bit tough because of the 52-foot length of the wires. I don't get the "surprise!" tune-ups that I got with the 998. I get many more matches on 160M and 80M than I got with the 998. All I have to do is switch my amp when I change bands now. At some point I know I'll end up with a KPA500 and that switching function will become a thing of the past too. I recently added a third antenna (coil-loaded sloper) for 160M/80M and the KAT500 loads it up beautifully. It's sweet that that particular antenna remains always selected for those two bands.
I suspect that at least in part, the MFJ-998 is designed to evaluate situations where it must expect the user will throw a full 1.5KW at it into a really poor match, and it then must say "My components really aren't designed for that particular extreme, and I can't give you a <2:1 match."There's no way for me to tell it "Hey, I'm never sending you more than 800, I promise!"
One thing I did like about the 998 is I had two sets of tuning settings - one for dry weather, and one for rainy/snowy weather. It was easy to switch between the two on each antenna.
Of course that is possible to do with the KAT500 as well. You can save a "dry weather" configuration file and a "wet weather" file and read the appropriate one into the tuner as needed. I've not yet gotten 'round to creating the wet weather file.
I keep the 998 around thinking one day MFJ will produce a cable for Elecraft radios, and I may decide to go through the hassle of getting a building permit to install 240v to the shack, and go fully QRO. Until then, it's not connected to anything now and the KAT500 is my do-it-all tuner for all occasions.
I went the kit route with the KAT500 and like all the Elecraft kits, it was a barrel of fun to assemble.
I can't speak to how the KAT500 will integrate with your Icom, but as for its integration with the K3, it's the bees knees.
73, Tyler, KC2LST
------------------------------
Message: 15Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 02:47:10 +0100From: "G4GNX" <[hidden email]>To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>Subject: [Elecraft] KAT500 tunerMessage-ID: <D70706FE6C0142C6B7A0CFB5767F3475@Paramount>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Hi all.
I am contemplating purchasing a KPA500 amplifier to complement my K3.
I currently have a MFJ 998 tuner which is good for 1.5KW but I think that the KAT500 tuner from Elecraft will be a superior product. Would this be a sensible assumption?
If I also buy the KAT500, will it easily interface with my Icom IC700 and is there a specific setting that would allow me to use the IC7100 ?Tune? button, which allows tuning at reduced power (ISTR it?s set at 10watts)?
73,
Alan. G4GNX
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Alan. G4GNX

Re: KAT500 tuner

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

Thanks to all of you who replied to my initial message. I think I'd part
convinced myself that I would prefer the KAT500 and your various comments
have reinforced those thoughts.

The KAT500 User Manual mentions use of the AH-4 protocol, which is what the
IC7100 uses. It also mentions use of 7 Watts, so I would hope that the
IC7100 would work OK as it outputs 10W in tune mode.

It's more important to me that the K3 and KPA500 interfaces with the KAT500,
the Icom interface would be a secondary useful bonus.

73,

Alan. G4GNX

-----Original Message-----
From: Vic Rosenthal
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 9:00 AM
To: G4GNX
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 tuner

It would be interesting to compare the toroids and capacitors in both
products. My guess is that they would be similar, and the difference in
ratings is based on the degree to which the manufacturer wishes to be
conservative. As I've said on numerous occasions, MFJ products are rated in
MFJ watts, which are half the size of regular watts (Pmfj = 2EI).

Vic 4X6GP/K2VCO

fromjusttheking

Re: KAT500 tuner

In reply to this post by Alan. G4GNX

Hi again Alan,
As far as your IC-7100 goes using the KAT500 auto tuner, the only thing that you should do as I mentioned in my earlier post (to make sure that the KAT500 is giving you the most accurate tuning possible), is to increase the 7100's power out to about 30 watts, press the TUNE button (or use the AUTO mode) on the KAT500 for EACH new frequency you want to tune up on each band, and that setting will be automatically stored, for each frequency, band and antenna you tuned up on.
Once that is done, put the KAT500 in MAN (MANUAL) mode, go to whatever frequency you want to operate on, and INSTEAD of pressing the TUNER/CALL button, just hold down the PTT button the mic for a moment and the KAT500 will recall the tuner's settings for that (or the nearest to that) frequency. Remember that once the settings are all stored, you can leave your power level at whatever you want to use. Just that simple.
You will be very happy I'm sure using the KAT500 both with your K3 & KPA500, as well as your IC-7100.
Have fun. 73, Alan, AB6C

Original message:
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 00:37:01 +0100
From: "G4GNX" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 tuner
Message-ID: <54F3584BBB30495B92CC467539701276@Paramount>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
reply-type=original

Thanks to all of you who replied to my initial message. I think I'd part
convinced myself that I would prefer the KAT500 and your various comments
have reinforced those thoughts.

The KAT500 User Manual mentions use of the AH-4 protocol, which is what the
IC7100 uses. It also mentions use of 7 Watts, so I would hope that the
IC7100 would work OK as it outputs 10W in tune mode.

It's more important to me that the K3 and KPA500 interfaces with the KAT500,
the Icom interface would be a secondary useful bonus.

73,

Alan. G4GNX
______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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