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KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

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Phil Hystad-3

KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

Fred or others...

I am still a little confused on the diagram in KE7X's KX3 book about hooking up the KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500. My question regard the hookup diagram, figure 9.17, on page 147 on the KE7X KX3 book.

Confusion is about keyline hookup. The diagram shows that both the K3 and the KX3 must be wired together (via a Y-adapter) in controlling keyline. Also, that a keyline interrupter is used in the KPAK3AUX cable between the K3 and the KAT500.

Question: what is a keyline interrupter? Is this something I have (KX3 cable kit) or is this something I make? I presume that this is used to block the keyline signal on the AUX cable thus forcing use of the K3 keyline connection directly. Confirmation on this please.

Question: if the K3 must be off when I am switched to use the KX3 driving the KPA500/KAT500 then why is this extra keyline hookup needed on the K3? I mean, if the K3 is off, what function does it supply. If the K3 is on and the KX3 is off then why not allow the K3 to control keyline via the AUX cable as it is doing right now (in my K3-KPA500-KAT500) configuration.

Thanks for any help you can supply.

73, phil, K7PEH
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

Phil,

You need to put the Keyline Interrupter on the K3 ACC connector, then
use the RCA cable from the K3 KEYOUT jack to the KPA500.

If you ordered the KPAK3AUX cable set, you have (or had) the Key Line
Interrupter. See
http://www.elecraft.com/manual/KPAK3AUX%20Cable%20Set%20Instructions.pdf.

The KX3 must use the KeyIn of the KPA500, so the K3 must also use that
same keying scheme - the KPA500 has a conflict if both the KeyOut-LP
line in the ACC cable is connected at the same time as the RCA Keying
cable from the K3, and that is where the Keying Interrupter comes in.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/22/2014 4:15 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:

> Fred or others...
>
> I am still a little confused on the diagram in KE7X's KX3 book about hooking up the KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500. My question regard the hookup diagram, figure 9.17, on page 147 on the KE7X KX3 book.
>
> Confusion is about keyline hookup. The diagram shows that both the K3 and the KX3 must be wired together (via a Y-adapter) in controlling keyline. Also, that a keyline interrupter is used in the KPAK3AUX cable between the K3 and the KAT500.
>
> Question: what is a keyline interrupter? Is this something I have (KX3 cable kit) or is this something I make? I presume that this is used to block the keyline signal on the AUX cable thus forcing use of the K3 keyline connection directly. Confirmation on this please.
>
> Question: if the K3 must be off when I am switched to use the KX3 driving the KPA500/KAT500 then why is this extra keyline hookup needed on the K3? I mean, if the K3 is off, what function does it supply. If the K3 is on and the KX3 is off then why not allow the K3 to control keyline via the AUX cable as it is doing right now (in my K3-KPA500-KAT500) configuration.
>
>

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Phil Hystad-3

Re: KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

Don,

Thanks. Clears everything up. I did find the key line interrupter. I had it in my Elecraft parts bin not knowing what to do with it when I got it. Now I know.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Apr 22, 2014, at 1:43 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Phil,
>
> You need to put the Keyline Interrupter on the K3 ACC connector, then use the RCA cable from the K3 KEYOUT jack to the KPA500.
>
> If you ordered the KPAK3AUX cable set, you have (or had) the Key Line Interrupter. See http://www.elecraft.com/manual/KPAK3AUX%20Cable%20Set%20Instructions.pdf.
>
> The KX3 must use the KeyIn of the KPA500, so the K3 must also use that same keying scheme - the KPA500 has a conflict if both the KeyOut-LP line in the ACC cable is connected at the same time as the RCA Keying cable from the K3, and that is where the Keying Interrupter comes in.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/22/2014 4:15 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>> Fred or others...
>>
>> I am still a little confused on the diagram in KE7X's KX3 book about hooking up the KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500. My question regard the hookup diagram, figure 9.17, on page 147 on the KE7X KX3 book.
>>
>> Confusion is about keyline hookup. The diagram shows that both the K3 and the KX3 must be wired together (via a Y-adapter) in controlling keyline. Also, that a keyline interrupter is used in the KPAK3AUX cable between the K3 and the KAT500.
>>
>> Question: what is a keyline interrupter? Is this something I have (KX3 cable kit) or is this something I make? I presume that this is used to block the keyline signal on the AUX cable thus forcing use of the K3 keyline connection directly. Confirmation on this please.
>>
>> Question: if the K3 must be off when I am switched to use the KX3 driving the KPA500/KAT500 then why is this extra keyline hookup needed on the K3? I mean, if the K3 is off, what function does it supply. If the K3 is on and the KX3 is off then why not allow the K3 to control keyline via the AUX cable as it is doing right now (in my K3-KPA500-KAT500) configuration.
>>
>>
>

Phil Hystad-3

Re: KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

Some follow-up questions:

OK, I have the KX3 and K3 configured with the KPA500 and KAT500. Everything seems to work with one little exception.

The exception:

--- initial conditions, K3 is on and switched to use the KPA500 and KAT500. KX3 is off.

--- using K3 and so on works fine with amp on or with amp in standby.

--- I turn off K3. Leave KPA500 on but in STBY mode.

--- Switch coax from K3 to KX3 (1x2 switch).

--- Turn on KX3. KPA500 still in STBY mode.

--- Attempt to switch KPA500 to OPER from STBY but switch does not work. If I power off the
KPA500 (front panel switch) and power back on then switch works fine.

I have experimented with all kinds of starting initial conditions and order of events but whenever
the KPA500 is left on after using the K3 and then switching to the KX3, the switch on the KPA500
to go from STBY to OPER does not work. I always have to cycle the power from the front panel on/off
switch.

What have I done or am I doing wrong?

Note: all functionality works fine with this one exception. With the current power settings from the KX3
I am getting about 135 watts output from the KPA500 into my hex beam and also my 80-meter dipole.
SWR is about 1:1 TUNED via the KAT500 on dipole and I usually operate the hex beam in bypass and this
has a 1.2:1 SWR or there abouts.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Apr 22, 2014, at 2:05 PM, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don,
>
> Thanks. Clears everything up. I did find the key line interrupter. I had it in my Elecraft parts bin not knowing what to do with it when I got it. Now I know.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2014, at 1:43 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Phil,
>>
>> You need to put the Keyline Interrupter on the K3 ACC connector, then use the RCA cable from the K3 KEYOUT jack to the KPA500.
>>
>> If you ordered the KPAK3AUX cable set, you have (or had) the Key Line Interrupter. See http://www.elecraft.com/manual/KPAK3AUX%20Cable%20Set%20Instructions.pdf.
>>
>> The KX3 must use the KeyIn of the KPA500, so the K3 must also use that same keying scheme - the KPA500 has a conflict if both the KeyOut-LP line in the ACC cable is connected at the same time as the RCA Keying cable from the K3, and that is where the Keying Interrupter comes in.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 4/22/2014 4:15 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>>> Fred or others...
>>>
>>> I am still a little confused on the diagram in KE7X's KX3 book about hooking up the KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500. My question regard the hookup diagram, figure 9.17, on page 147 on the KE7X KX3 book.
>>>
>>> Confusion is about keyline hookup. The diagram shows that both the K3 and the KX3 must be wired together (via a Y-adapter) in controlling keyline. Also, that a keyline interrupter is used in the KPAK3AUX cable between the K3 and the KAT500.
>>>
>>> Question: what is a keyline interrupter? Is this something I have (KX3 cable kit) or is this something I make? I presume that this is used to block the keyline signal on the AUX cable thus forcing use of the K3 keyline connection directly. Confirmation on this please.
>>>
>>> Question: if the K3 must be off when I am switched to use the KX3 driving the KPA500/KAT500 then why is this extra keyline hookup needed on the K3? I mean, if the K3 is off, what function does it supply. If the K3 is on and the KX3 is off then why not allow the K3 to control keyline via the AUX cable as it is doing right now (in my K3-KPA500-KAT500) configuration.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

Phil,

Let me get this straight - the KPA500 is communicating with the K3, then
you switch to the KX3 and the KPA500 does not talk with the KX3.

If that is what is happening, I would expect that to be the case. The
communications with the K3 is not synchronized with the attempted
communications with the KX3, so a reset (power cycle) of the KPA500 may
be required.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/22/2014 7:02 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:

> Some follow-up questions:
>
> OK, I have the KX3 and K3 configured with the KPA500 and KAT500. Everything seems to work with one little exception.
>
> The exception:
>
> --- initial conditions, K3 is on and switched to use the KPA500 and KAT500. KX3 is off.
>
> --- using K3 and so on works fine with amp on or with amp in standby.
>
> --- I turn off K3. Leave KPA500 on but in STBY mode.
>
> --- Switch coax from K3 to KX3 (1x2 switch).
>
> --- Turn on KX3. KPA500 still in STBY mode.
>
> --- Attempt to switch KPA500 to OPER from STBY but switch does not work. If I power off the
> KPA500 (front panel switch) and power back on then switch works fine.
>
> I have experimented with all kinds of starting initial conditions and order of events but whenever
> the KPA500 is left on after using the K3 and then switching to the KX3, the switch on the KPA500
> to go from STBY to OPER does not work. I always have to cycle the power from the front panel on/off
> switch.
>
>

Phil Hystad-3

Re: KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

So, is this normal behavior? I wasn't expecting any kind of comms between the K3 and the KPA500 that affects the STBY/OPER switching. It does seem that a power on/off cycle for the KPA500 is required to enable that switch.

Is this designed to work this way or is this a flaw in the design or maybe a missing mini-feature of configuring two different transceivers with the KPA500. I admit to not scouring all of the documentation yet on the expected functionality of the STBY/OPER switch.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:14 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Phil,
>
> Let me get this straight - the KPA500 is communicating with the K3, then you switch to the KX3 and the KPA500 does not talk with the KX3.
>
> If that is what is happening, I would expect that to be the case. The communications with the K3 is not synchronized with the attempted communications with the KX3, so a reset (power cycle) of the KPA500 may be required.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/22/2014 7:02 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>> Some follow-up questions:
>>
>> OK, I have the KX3 and K3 configured with the KPA500 and KAT500. Everything seems to work with one little exception.
>>
>> The exception:
>>
>> --- initial conditions, K3 is on and switched to use the KPA500 and KAT500. KX3 is off.
>>
>> --- using K3 and so on works fine with amp on or with amp in standby.
>>
>> --- I turn off K3. Leave KPA500 on but in STBY mode.
>>
>> --- Switch coax from K3 to KX3 (1x2 switch).
>>
>> --- Turn on KX3. KPA500 still in STBY mode.
>>
>> --- Attempt to switch KPA500 to OPER from STBY but switch does not work. If I power off the
>> KPA500 (front panel switch) and power back on then switch works fine.
>>
>> I have experimented with all kinds of starting initial conditions and order of events but whenever
>> the KPA500 is left on after using the K3 and then switching to the KX3, the switch on the KPA500
>> to go from STBY to OPER does not work. I always have to cycle the power from the front panel on/off
>> switch.
>>
>>
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

Phil,

I think you may be expecting too much.
Consider a parallel - a computer communicating with a printer. If you
suddenly switch the printer cable to another computer, would you expect
the printer to continue printing without any intervention?

The "printer" in this comparison is the KPA500 and the two "computers"
are the K3 and the KX3.

It is not unreasonable IMHO to expect that a reset of the KPA500 would
be required.

If the KPA500 were simply an amplifier with no communications capability
with the driving transceiver, switching from one source of RF input to
another should proceed without regard to whatever is the driving device,
but your KPA500 is more than "just an amplifier" because it can
communicate with the K3 or KX3 driving transceiver. Expecting the KPA500
to switch data streams from two different transceivers with no
intervening reset is not realistic.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/22/2014 7:41 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:

> So, is this normal behavior? I wasn't expecting any kind of comms between the K3 and the KPA500 that affects the STBY/OPER switching. It does seem that a power on/off cycle for the KPA500 is required to enable that switch.
>
> Is this designed to work this way or is this a flaw in the design or maybe a missing mini-feature of configuring two different transceivers with the KPA500. I admit to not scouring all of the documentation yet on the expected functionality of the STBY/OPER switch.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:14 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Phil,
>>
>> Let me get this straight - the KPA500 is communicating with the K3, then you switch to the KX3 and the KPA500 does not talk with the KX3.
>>
>> If that is what is happening, I would expect that to be the case. The communications with the K3 is not synchronized with the attempted communications with the KX3, so a reset (power cycle) of the KPA500 may be required.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 4/22/2014 7:02 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>>> Some follow-up questions:
>>>
>>> OK, I have the KX3 and K3 configured with the KPA500 and KAT500. Everything seems to work with one little exception.
>>>
>>> The exception:
>>>
>>> --- initial conditions, K3 is on and switched to use the KPA500 and KAT500. KX3 is off.
>>>
>>> --- using K3 and so on works fine with amp on or with amp in standby.
>>>
>>> --- I turn off K3. Leave KPA500 on but in STBY mode.
>>>
>>> --- Switch coax from K3 to KX3 (1x2 switch).
>>>
>>> --- Turn on KX3. KPA500 still in STBY mode.
>>>
>>> --- Attempt to switch KPA500 to OPER from STBY but switch does not work. If I power off the
>>> KPA500 (front panel switch) and power back on then switch works fine.
>>>
>>> I have experimented with all kinds of starting initial conditions and order of events but whenever
>>> the KPA500 is left on after using the K3 and then switching to the KX3, the switch on the KPA500
>>> to go from STBY to OPER does not work. I always have to cycle the power from the front panel on/off
>>> switch.
>>>
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Phil Hystad-3

Re: KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

Don,

OK, I may be expecting too much. Actually, I am not sure if I was expecting as much as I was a little bit surprised by the behavior. I didn't think that the KPA500 and KX3 communicated with each other other than RF and Key line but maybe that was enough of a difference from the K3. The K3 of course in my case has the AUX cable connections with the KPA500 and KAT500.

It is not a big deal as long as this is the way it is expected to work. I was not sure if I had done something wrong or not.

But, just picked up W1AW/5 MS QRP power with the KX3. Actually, it was about 6 watts.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:57 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Phil,
>
> I think you may be expecting too much.
> Consider a parallel - a computer communicating with a printer. If you suddenly switch the printer cable to another computer, would you expect the printer to continue printing without any intervention?
>
> The "printer" in this comparison is the KPA500 and the two "computers" are the K3 and the KX3.
>
> It is not unreasonable IMHO to expect that a reset of the KPA500 would be required.
>
> If the KPA500 were simply an amplifier with no communications capability with the driving transceiver, switching from one source of RF input to another should proceed without regard to whatever is the driving device, but your KPA500 is more than "just an amplifier" because it can communicate with the K3 or KX3 driving transceiver. Expecting the KPA500 to switch data streams from two different transceivers with no intervening reset is not realistic.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/22/2014 7:41 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>> So, is this normal behavior? I wasn't expecting any kind of comms between the K3 and the KPA500 that affects the STBY/OPER switching. It does seem that a power on/off cycle for the KPA500 is required to enable that switch.
>>
>> Is this designed to work this way or is this a flaw in the design or maybe a missing mini-feature of configuring two different transceivers with the KPA500. I admit to not scouring all of the documentation yet on the expected functionality of the STBY/OPER switch.
>>
>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:14 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Phil,
>>>
>>> Let me get this straight - the KPA500 is communicating with the K3, then you switch to the KX3 and the KPA500 does not talk with the KX3.
>>>
>>> If that is what is happening, I would expect that to be the case. The communications with the K3 is not synchronized with the attempted communications with the KX3, so a reset (power cycle) of the KPA500 may be required.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>> On 4/22/2014 7:02 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>>>> Some follow-up questions:
>>>>
>>>> OK, I have the KX3 and K3 configured with the KPA500 and KAT500. Everything seems to work with one little exception.
>>>>
>>>> The exception:
>>>>
>>>> --- initial conditions, K3 is on and switched to use the KPA500 and KAT500. KX3 is off.
>>>>
>>>> --- using K3 and so on works fine with amp on or with amp in standby.
>>>>
>>>> --- I turn off K3. Leave KPA500 on but in STBY mode.
>>>>
>>>> --- Switch coax from K3 to KX3 (1x2 switch).
>>>>
>>>> --- Turn on KX3. KPA500 still in STBY mode.
>>>>
>>>> --- Attempt to switch KPA500 to OPER from STBY but switch does not work. If I power off the
>>>> KPA500 (front panel switch) and power back on then switch works fine.
>>>>
>>>> I have experimented with all kinds of starting initial conditions and order of events but whenever
>>>> the KPA500 is left on after using the K3 and then switching to the KX3, the switch on the KPA500
>>>> to go from STBY to OPER does not work. I always have to cycle the power from the front panel on/off
>>>> switch.
>>>>
>>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

I remember a while back I was asking the same question about using my K2
and KX3 with my KPA500/KAT500 combo, and Eric responded that the KPAK3AUX
Optional KPA500 to K3 AUX Cable Set cable should be left disconnected when
using another rig besides the K3.
I was debating on using a DB-15 data switch so I wouldn't have to keep
plugging/unplugging the cable.

Mike AC6JA

In a message dated 4/22/2014 4:44:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

So, is this normal behavior? I wasn't expecting any kind of comms between
the K3 and the KPA500 that affects the STBY/OPER switching. It does seem
that a power on/off cycle for the KPA500 is required to enable that switch.

Is this designed to work this way or is this a flaw in the design or maybe
a missing mini-feature of configuring two different transceivers with the
KPA500. I admit to not scouring all of the documentation yet on the
expected functionality of the STBY/OPER switch.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:14 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Phil,
>
> Let me get this straight - the KPA500 is communicating with the K3, then
you switch to the KX3 and the KPA500 does not talk with the KX3.
>
> If that is what is happening, I would expect that to be the case. The
communications with the K3 is not synchronized with the attempted
communications with the KX3, so a reset (power cycle) of the KPA500 may be required.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/22/2014 7:02 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>> Some follow-up questions:
>>
>> OK, I have the KX3 and K3 configured with the KPA500 and KAT500.
Everything seems to work with one little exception.
>>
>> The exception:
>>
>> --- initial conditions, K3 is on and switched to use the KPA500 and
KAT500. KX3 is off.
>>
>> --- using K3 and so on works fine with amp on or with amp in
standby.
>>
>> --- I turn off K3. Leave KPA500 on but in STBY mode.
>>
>> --- Switch coax from K3 to KX3 (1x2 switch).
>>
>> --- Turn on KX3. KPA500 still in STBY mode.
>>
>> --- Attempt to switch KPA500 to OPER from STBY but switch does not
work. If I power off the
>> KPA500 (front panel switch) and power back on then switch works
fine.
>>
>> I have experimented with all kinds of starting initial conditions and
order of events but whenever
>> the KPA500 is left on after using the K3 and then switching to the KX3,
the switch on the KPA500
>> to go from STBY to OPER does not work. I always have to cycle the
power from the front panel on/off
>> switch.
>>
>>
>

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Larry Lopez

Re: KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

Hi Phil:

too bad I didn't jump on it.
i didn't realize it had the subreceiver !!!

73,
Larry

Phil Hystad-3 [via Elecraft] wrote:

Don,

OK, I may be expecting too much. Actually, I am not sure if I was expecting as much as I was a little bit surprised by the behavior. I didn't think that the KPA500 and KX3 communicated with each other other than RF and Key line but maybe that was enough of a difference from the K3. The K3 of course in my case has the AUX cable connections with the KPA500 and KAT500.

It is not a big deal as long as this is the way it is expected to work. I was not sure if I had done something wrong or not.

But, just picked up W1AW/5 MS QRP power with the KX3. Actually, it was about 6 watts.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:57 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Phil,
>
> I think you may be expecting too much.
> Consider a parallel - a computer communicating with a printer. If you suddenly switch the printer cable to another computer, would you expect the printer to continue printing without any intervention?
>
> The "printer" in this comparison is the KPA500 and the two "computers" are the K3 and the KX3.
>
> It is not unreasonable IMHO to expect that a reset of the KPA500 would be required.
>
> If the KPA500 were simply an amplifier with no communications capability with the driving transceiver, switching from one source of RF input to another should proceed without regard to whatever is the driving device, but your KPA500 is more than "just an amplifier" because it can communicate with the K3 or KX3 driving transceiver. Expecting the KPA500 to switch data streams from two different transceivers with no intervening reset is not realistic.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/22/2014 7:41 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>> So, is this normal behavior? I wasn't expecting any kind of comms between the K3 and the KPA500 that affects the STBY/OPER switching. It does seem that a power on/off cycle for the KPA500 is required to enable that switch.
>>
>> Is this designed to work this way or is this a flaw in the design or maybe a missing mini-feature of configuring two different transceivers with the KPA500. I admit to not scouring all of the documentation yet on the expected functionality of the STBY/OPER switch.
>>
>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:14 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Phil,
>>>
>>> Let me get this straight - the KPA500 is communicating with the K3, then you switch to the KX3 and the KPA500 does not talk with the KX3.
>>>
>>> If that is what is happening, I would expect that to be the case. The communications with the K3 is not synchronized with the attempted communications with the KX3, so a reset (power cycle) of the KPA500 may be required.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>> On 4/22/2014 7:02 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>>>> Some follow-up questions:
>>>>
>>>> OK, I have the KX3 and K3 configured with the KPA500 and KAT500. Everything seems to work with one little exception.
>>>>
>>>> The exception:
>>>>
>>>> --- initial conditions, K3 is on and switched to use the KPA500 and KAT500. KX3 is off.
>>>>
>>>> --- using K3 and so on works fine with amp on or with amp in standby.
>>>>
>>>> --- I turn off K3. Leave KPA500 on but in STBY mode.
>>>>
>>>> --- Switch coax from K3 to KX3 (1x2 switch).
>>>>
>>>> --- Turn on KX3. KPA500 still in STBY mode.
>>>>
>>>> --- Attempt to switch KPA500 to OPER from STBY but switch does not work. If I power off the
>>>> KPA500 (front panel switch) and power back on then switch works fine.
>>>>
>>>> I have experimented with all kinds of starting initial conditions and order of events but whenever
>>>> the KPA500 is left on after using the K3 and then switching to the KX3, the switch on the KPA500
>>>> to go from STBY to OPER does not work. I always have to cycle the power from the front panel on/off
>>>> switch.
>>>>
>>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>>
>

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Jack Brindle-2

Re: KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

There appears to be some misconceptions in this discussion. First, the information flow from the K3 to the KPA only occurs on the band lines and the key line. Auxbus communications is one-way, from the KPA to the K3. The KPA does not listen on the Auxbus.

There is also something else going on that is in play here. When the K3 is powered off, the pull-ups on the band lines (and the key line, I believe) continue to work. They continue to pull the lines to Vcc. But with the K3 off, Vcc is now 0 volts. This means that a short time after the K3 powers off the KPA will see all zeros on the band lines, and will switch to 60 meters. After this, RF coming into the KPA will cause it to switch to the appropriate band, and all band switching will occur with incoming RF as long as the band lines do not change.

Of course, there is one other signal in play here. The Key line is important since it causes the KPA to switch into transmit. We have seen the K3 pull the Key line to ground at times, which just may be what you are seeing. If the KEY line is active, the KPA will not switch from STBY to OPER. For this to happen the KEY line must be high.

The best way to connect two transceivers to the KPA is to use a physical switch to select the transceiver. A five-pole two position switch will do for the band and key lines, plus a coax switch of the RF.

In short, you may get things to work with the description from Fred’s book. But if the key line becomes driven low by the “off” transceiver for any reason, you can expect weird things to happen.

Jack Brindle, W6FB
Elecraft Engineering

On Apr 22, 2014, at 5:04 PM, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don,
>
> OK, I may be expecting too much. Actually, I am not sure if I was expecting as much as I was a little bit surprised by the behavior. I didn't think that the KPA500 and KX3 communicated with each other other than RF and Key line but maybe that was enough of a difference from the K3. The K3 of course in my case has the AUX cable connections with the KPA500 and KAT500.
>
> It is not a big deal as long as this is the way it is expected to work. I was not sure if I had done something wrong or not.
>
> But, just picked up W1AW/5 MS QRP power with the KX3. Actually, it was about 6 watts.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:57 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Phil,
>>
>> I think you may be expecting too much.
>> Consider a parallel - a computer communicating with a printer. If you suddenly switch the printer cable to another computer, would you expect the printer to continue printing without any intervention?
>>
>> The "printer" in this comparison is the KPA500 and the two "computers" are the K3 and the KX3.
>>
>> It is not unreasonable IMHO to expect that a reset of the KPA500 would be required.
>>
>> If the KPA500 were simply an amplifier with no communications capability with the driving transceiver, switching from one source of RF input to another should proceed without regard to whatever is the driving device, but your KPA500 is more than "just an amplifier" because it can communicate with the K3 or KX3 driving transceiver. Expecting the KPA500 to switch data streams from two different transceivers with no intervening reset is not realistic.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 4/22/2014 7:41 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>>> So, is this normal behavior? I wasn't expecting any kind of comms between the K3 and the KPA500 that affects the STBY/OPER switching. It does seem that a power on/off cycle for the KPA500 is required to enable that switch.
>>>
>>> Is this designed to work this way or is this a flaw in the design or maybe a missing mini-feature of configuring two different transceivers with the KPA500. I admit to not scouring all of the documentation yet on the expected functionality of the STBY/OPER switch.
>>>
>>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:14 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Phil,
>>>>
>>>> Let me get this straight - the KPA500 is communicating with the K3, then you switch to the KX3 and the KPA500 does not talk with the KX3.
>>>>
>>>> If that is what is happening, I would expect that to be the case. The communications with the K3 is not synchronized with the attempted communications with the KX3, so a reset (power cycle) of the KPA500 may be required.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Don W3FPR
>>>>
>>>> On 4/22/2014 7:02 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>>>>> Some follow-up questions:
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, I have the KX3 and K3 configured with the KPA500 and KAT500. Everything seems to work with one little exception.
>>>>>
>>>>> The exception:
>>>>>
>>>>> --- initial conditions, K3 is on and switched to use the KPA500 and KAT500. KX3 is off.
>>>>>
>>>>> --- using K3 and so on works fine with amp on or with amp in standby.
>>>>>
>>>>> --- I turn off K3. Leave KPA500 on but in STBY mode.
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Switch coax from K3 to KX3 (1x2 switch).
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Turn on KX3. KPA500 still in STBY mode.
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Attempt to switch KPA500 to OPER from STBY but switch does not work. If I power off the
>>>>> KPA500 (front panel switch) and power back on then switch works fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have experimented with all kinds of starting initial conditions and order of events but whenever
>>>>> the KPA500 is left on after using the K3 and then switching to the KX3, the switch on the KPA500
>>>>> to go from STBY to OPER does not work. I always have to cycle the power from the front panel on/off
>>>>> switch.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Phil Hystad-3

Re: KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

Jack,

Thanks for the detailed explanation. So, if the K3 pulls the keyline to ground and the STBY/OPER switch is inoperative as a result, then why would power cycle on KPA500 change things. I mean, I assume that the keyline is still pulled to ground by the K3. But, I admit that I am not an electronics guy as you others so I do not fully understand all of the stuff that goes on in these things.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Apr 22, 2014, at 10:18 PM, Jack Brindle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There appears to be some misconceptions in this discussion. First, the information flow from the K3 to the KPA only occurs on the band lines and the key line. Auxbus communications is one-way, from the KPA to the K3. The KPA does not listen on the Auxbus.
>
> There is also something else going on that is in play here. When the K3 is powered off, the pull-ups on the band lines (and the key line, I believe) continue to work. They continue to pull the lines to Vcc. But with the K3 off, Vcc is now 0 volts. This means that a short time after the K3 powers off the KPA will see all zeros on the band lines, and will switch to 60 meters. After this, RF coming into the KPA will cause it to switch to the appropriate band, and all band switching will occur with incoming RF as long as the band lines do not change.
>
> Of course, there is one other signal in play here. The Key line is important since it causes the KPA to switch into transmit. We have seen the K3 pull the Key line to ground at times, which just may be what you are seeing. If the KEY line is active, the KPA will not switch from STBY to OPER. For this to happen the KEY line must be high.
>
> The best way to connect two transceivers to the KPA is to use a physical switch to select the transceiver. A five-pole two position switch will do for the band and key lines, plus a coax switch of the RF.
>
> In short, you may get things to work with the description from Fred’s book. But if the key line becomes driven low by the “off” transceiver for any reason, you can expect weird things to happen.
>
> Jack Brindle, W6FB
> Elecraft Engineering
>
> On Apr 22, 2014, at 5:04 PM, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Don,
>>
>> OK, I may be expecting too much. Actually, I am not sure if I was expecting as much as I was a little bit surprised by the behavior. I didn't think that the KPA500 and KX3 communicated with each other other than RF and Key line but maybe that was enough of a difference from the K3. The K3 of course in my case has the AUX cable connections with the KPA500 and KAT500.
>>
>> It is not a big deal as long as this is the way it is expected to work. I was not sure if I had done something wrong or not.
>>
>> But, just picked up W1AW/5 MS QRP power with the KX3. Actually, it was about 6 watts.
>>
>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:57 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Phil,
>>>
>>> I think you may be expecting too much.
>>> Consider a parallel - a computer communicating with a printer. If you suddenly switch the printer cable to another computer, would you expect the printer to continue printing without any intervention?
>>>
>>> The "printer" in this comparison is the KPA500 and the two "computers" are the K3 and the KX3.
>>>
>>> It is not unreasonable IMHO to expect that a reset of the KPA500 would be required.
>>>
>>> If the KPA500 were simply an amplifier with no communications capability with the driving transceiver, switching from one source of RF input to another should proceed without regard to whatever is the driving device, but your KPA500 is more than "just an amplifier" because it can communicate with the K3 or KX3 driving transceiver. Expecting the KPA500 to switch data streams from two different transceivers with no intervening reset is not realistic.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>> On 4/22/2014 7:41 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>>>> So, is this normal behavior? I wasn't expecting any kind of comms between the K3 and the KPA500 that affects the STBY/OPER switching. It does seem that a power on/off cycle for the KPA500 is required to enable that switch.
>>>>
>>>> Is this designed to work this way or is this a flaw in the design or maybe a missing mini-feature of configuring two different transceivers with the KPA500. I admit to not scouring all of the documentation yet on the expected functionality of the STBY/OPER switch.
>>>>
>>>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:14 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Phil,
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me get this straight - the KPA500 is communicating with the K3, then you switch to the KX3 and the KPA500 does not talk with the KX3.
>>>>>
>>>>> If that is what is happening, I would expect that to be the case. The communications with the K3 is not synchronized with the attempted communications with the KX3, so a reset (power cycle) of the KPA500 may be required.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73,
>>>>> Don W3FPR
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/22/2014 7:02 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>>>>>> Some follow-up questions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, I have the KX3 and K3 configured with the KPA500 and KAT500. Everything seems to work with one little exception.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The exception:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- initial conditions, K3 is on and switched to use the KPA500 and KAT500. KX3 is off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- using K3 and so on works fine with amp on or with amp in standby.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- I turn off K3. Leave KPA500 on but in STBY mode.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- Switch coax from K3 to KX3 (1x2 switch).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- Turn on KX3. KPA500 still in STBY mode.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- Attempt to switch KPA500 to OPER from STBY but switch does not work. If I power off the
>>>>>> KPA500 (front panel switch) and power back on then switch works fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have experimented with all kinds of starting initial conditions and order of events but whenever
>>>>>> the KPA500 is left on after using the K3 and then switching to the KX3, the switch on the KPA500
>>>>>> to go from STBY to OPER does not work. I always have to cycle the power from the front panel on/off
>>>>>> switch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

dmb@lightstream.net

Re: KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

I have four transceivers connected up in such a way that I can use all of
them with the KPA500/KAT500 by simply switching the appropriate RF path to
the KPA500 RF Input port.

The setup is as follows:
-- 'Wiper' of four-port coaxial RF switch connects to KPA500 "RF Input" port

-- The four ports of the coaxial RF switch are connected to: K3, KX3, K2,
HPSDR

-- The "TX Enable/Amp Key Lines" from ONLY the KX3, K2, and HPSDR are
simply paralleled via an assortment of RCA "Y" adapters and connected to
the KPA500 "PA Key" port. NOTE: The K3's "KEY OUT" line is *NOT* included
in this parallel connection, and is not used at all.

-- The K3 is connected to the KPA500 via the KPAK3AUX cable

With this arrangement, and ALL transceivers powered 'ON', I can select any
of the four transceivers via the RF coaxial switch, and drive the KPA500
to full output without issue. The usual steps are:
-- Place the KPA500 into STBY

-- Select the desired transceiver via the RF coaxial switch

-- Select the desired band etc., and make sure the power level is adjusted
appropriately to drive the KPA500.

-- Tap the key to send some 'heads-up' RF to the KPA500, and in response,
the KPA500 switches to the appropriate band, and the KAT500 switches to
the appropriate frequency and pulls the settings from memory.

-- Place the KPA500 into OPERATE mode

That's it. I understand that paralleling the "TX Enable/Amp Key Lines"
from all of the transceivers is less than optimal, but for these
particular transceivers, it has worked fine. Since the K3 is the primary
radio in the shack, it always remains on. (I have NOT tried any of this
with the K3 powered down) I have also used this arrangement with all other
transceivers powered OFF except for the K3 and whichever other radio I
want to use. For example, if I want to use the KX3, the K3 and KX3 are
both powered ON, but the other transceivers can be OFF. The KX3 will
drive the KPA500 to about 175 watts or so, depending upon band.

I've used this arrangement for quite a while without any issues, but I
make no claim that there are not any dangers in doing things this way. If
there are, I haven't discovered them - yet.

73, Dale
WA8SRA

> Jack,
>
> Thanks for the detailed explanation. So, if the K3 pulls the keyline to
> ground and the STBY/OPER switch is inoperative as a result, then why would
> power cycle on KPA500 change things. I mean, I assume that the keyline is
> still pulled to ground by the K3. But, I admit that I am not an
> electronics guy as you others so I do not fully understand all of the
> stuff that goes on in these things.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2014, at 10:18 PM, Jack Brindle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> There appears to be some misconceptions in this discussion. First, the
>> information flow from the K3 to the KPA only occurs on the band lines
>> and the key line. Auxbus communications is one-way, from the KPA to the
>> K3. The KPA does not listen on the Auxbus.
>>
>> There is also something else going on that is in play here. When the K3
>> is powered off, the pull-ups on the band lines (and the key line, I
>> believe) continue to work. They continue to pull the lines to Vcc. But
>> with the K3 off, Vcc is now 0 volts. This means that a short time after
>> the K3 powers off the KPA will see all zeros on the band lines, and will
>> switch to 60 meters. After this, RF coming into the KPA will cause it to
>> switch to the appropriate band, and all band switching will occur with
>> incoming RF as long as the band lines do not change.
>>
>> Of course, there is one other signal in play here. The Key line is
>> important since it causes the KPA to switch into transmit. We have seen
>> the K3 pull the Key line to ground at times, which just may be what you
>> are seeing. If the KEY line is active, the KPA will not switch from STBY
>> to OPER. For this to happen the KEY line must be high.
>>
>> The best way to connect two transceivers to the KPA is to use a physical
>> switch to select the transceiver. A five-pole two position switch will
>> do for the band and key lines, plus a coax switch of the RF.
>>
>> In short, you may get things to work with the description from Freds
>> book. But if the key line becomes driven low by the off transceiver
>> for any reason, you can expect weird things to happen.
>>
>> Jack Brindle, W6FB
>> Elecraft Engineering
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2014, at 5:04 PM, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Don,
>>>
>>> OK, I may be expecting too much. Actually, I am not sure if I was
>>> expecting as much as I was a little bit surprised by the behavior. I
>>> didn't think that the KPA500 and KX3 communicated with each other other
>>> than RF and Key line but maybe that was enough of a difference from the
>>> K3. The K3 of course in my case has the AUX cable connections with the
>>> KPA500 and KAT500.
>>>
>>> It is not a big deal as long as this is the way it is expected to work.
>>> I was not sure if I had done something wrong or not.
>>>
>>> But, just picked up W1AW/5 MS QRP power with the KX3. Actually, it was
>>> about 6 watts.
>>>
>>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:57 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Phil,
>>>>
>>>> I think you may be expecting too much.
>>>> Consider a parallel - a computer communicating with a printer. If you
>>>> suddenly switch the printer cable to another computer, would you
>>>> expect the printer to continue printing without any intervention?
>>>>
>>>> The "printer" in this comparison is the KPA500 and the two "computers"
>>>> are the K3 and the KX3.
>>>>
>>>> It is not unreasonable IMHO to expect that a reset of the KPA500 would
>>>> be required.
>>>>
>>>> If the KPA500 were simply an amplifier with no communications
>>>> capability with the driving transceiver, switching from one source of
>>>> RF input to another should proceed without regard to whatever is the
>>>> driving device, but your KPA500 is more than "just an amplifier"
>>>> because it can communicate with the K3 or KX3 driving transceiver.
>>>> Expecting the KPA500 to switch data streams from two different
>>>> transceivers with no intervening reset is not realistic.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Don W3FPR
>>>>
>>>> On 4/22/2014 7:41 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>>>>> So, is this normal behavior? I wasn't expecting any kind of comms
>>>>> between the K3 and the KPA500 that affects the STBY/OPER switching.
>>>>> It does seem that a power on/off cycle for the KPA500 is required to
>>>>> enable that switch.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this designed to work this way or is this a flaw in the design or
>>>>> maybe a missing mini-feature of configuring two different
>>>>> transceivers with the KPA500. I admit to not scouring all of the
>>>>> documentation yet on the expected functionality of the STBY/OPER
>>>>> switch.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:14 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Phil,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me get this straight - the KPA500 is communicating with the K3,
>>>>>> then you switch to the KX3 and the KPA500 does not talk with the
>>>>>> KX3.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If that is what is happening, I would expect that to be the case.
>>>>>> The communications with the K3 is not synchronized with the
>>>>>> attempted communications with the KX3, so a reset (power cycle) of
>>>>>> the KPA500 may be required.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 73,
>>>>>> Don W3FPR
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/22/2014 7:02 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>>>>>>> Some follow-up questions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK, I have the KX3 and K3 configured with the KPA500 and KAT500.
>>>>>>> Everything seems to work with one little exception.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The exception:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- initial conditions, K3 is on and switched to use the KPA500
>>>>>>> and KAT500. KX3 is off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- using K3 and so on works fine with amp on or with amp in
>>>>>>> standby.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- I turn off K3. Leave KPA500 on but in STBY mode.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- Switch coax from K3 to KX3 (1x2 switch).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- Turn on KX3. KPA500 still in STBY mode.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- Attempt to switch KPA500 to OPER from STBY but switch does
>>>>>>> not work. If I power off the
>>>>>>> KPA500 (front panel switch) and power back on then switch
>>>>>>> works fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have experimented with all kinds of starting initial conditions
>>>>>>> and order of events but whenever
>>>>>>> the KPA500 is left on after using the K3 and then switching to the
>>>>>>> KX3, the switch on the KPA500
>>>>>>> to go from STBY to OPER does not work. I always have to cycle the
>>>>>>> power from the front panel on/off
>>>>>>> switch.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Cady, Fred

Re: KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

Good morning all.
Sorry I haven't chipped in before.
I think Jack's comment "...something else going on..." is right on.

The band line pull-ups in the K3 are somewhat problematic. They weren't there in the first placed (which was good design) but were added to the K3 early on to compensate for band decoders that didn't have pull ups (not good design). So that explains why the KPA500 shows 5.3 MHZ when the K3 is turned off.

However, neither of the key lines from the K3 (KEY OUT and KEYOUT_LP in ACC, K3 schematic of June 2010) are pulled up. One is an open drain and one an open collector. These two lines are wire-ORed together in the KPA500. Wire-OR means either KEY OUT or KEYOUT_LP or both can key the KPA500. So I don't think that is what is causing the behavior you see.

I don't have the KX3 in the mix here at the moment but I tried the following:

K3 on 15 m, KPA on in Operate mode showing 21 MHZ.
Turn K3 off. KPA switches to Standby immediately and then shows 5.3 MHZ a second or two later (significant delay there).
K3 still off. KPA switch from Standby to Operate and back and forth no problem.
K3 still off, KPA in Standby. Ground the KPA keying line PA KEY. KPA can switch to operate and back and forth no problem. When in Operate the * shows on the display as expected (saying the amp key line is low).

Another culprit might be DIGOUT1, although that too is an open collector output. I wouldn't expect that to be doing anything when the K3 is off but if you see a _ in the KPA display, that means the amp is inhibited when you try to key because INHIBIT in enabled and DIGOUT1 is low.

Firmware: K3 4.83, KPA 1.38

What is your firmware? There was a firmware change in the KPA a while ago that fixed a power up problem.

Cheers,
Fred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Phil Hystad
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 11:35 PM
> To: Jack Brindle
> Cc: elecraft; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500,
> and KAT500
>
> Jack,
>
> Thanks for the detailed explanation. So, if the K3 pulls the keyline
> to ground and the STBY/OPER switch is inoperative as a result, then why
> would power cycle on KPA500 change things. I mean, I assume that the
> keyline is still pulled to ground by the K3. But, I admit that I am
> not an electronics guy as you others so I do not fully understand all
> of the stuff that goes on in these things.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2014, at 10:18 PM, Jack Brindle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > There appears to be some misconceptions in this discussion. First,
> the information flow from the K3 to the KPA only occurs on the band
> lines and the key line. Auxbus communications is one-way, from the KPA
> to the K3. The KPA does not listen on the Auxbus.
> >
> > There is also something else going on that is in play here. When the
> K3 is powered off, the pull-ups on the band lines (and the key line, I
> believe) continue to work. They continue to pull the lines to Vcc. But
> with the K3 off, Vcc is now 0 volts. This means that a short time after
> the K3 powers off the KPA will see all zeros on the band lines, and
> will switch to 60 meters. After this, RF coming into the KPA will cause
> it to switch to the appropriate band, and all band switching will occur
> with incoming RF as long as the band lines do not change.
> >
> > Of course, there is one other signal in play here. The Key line is
> important since it causes the KPA to switch into transmit. We have seen
> the K3 pull the Key line to ground at times, which just may be what you
> are seeing. If the KEY line is active, the KPA will not switch from
> STBY to OPER. For this to happen the KEY line must be high.
> >
> > The best way to connect two transceivers to the KPA is to use a
> physical switch to select the transceiver. A five-pole two position
> switch will do for the band and key lines, plus a coax switch of the
> RF.
> >
> > In short, you may get things to work with the description from Fred's
> book. But if the key line becomes driven low by the "off" transceiver
> for any reason, you can expect weird things to happen.
> >
> > Jack Brindle, W6FB
> > Elecraft Engineering
> >
> > On Apr 22, 2014, at 5:04 PM, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Don,
> >>
> >> OK, I may be expecting too much. Actually, I am not sure if I was
> expecting as much as I was a little bit surprised by the behavior. I
> didn't think that the KPA500 and KX3 communicated with each other other
> than RF and Key line but maybe that was enough of a difference from the
> K3. The K3 of course in my case has the AUX cable connections with the
> KPA500 and KAT500.
> >>
> >> It is not a big deal as long as this is the way it is expected to
> work. I was not sure if I had done something wrong or not.
> >>
> >> But, just picked up W1AW/5 MS QRP power with the KX3. Actually, it
> was about 6 watts.
> >>
> >> 73, phil, K7PEH
> >>
> >>
> >> On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:57 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Phil,
> >>>
> >>> I think you may be expecting too much.
> >>> Consider a parallel - a computer communicating with a printer. If
> you suddenly switch the printer cable to another computer, would you
> expect the printer to continue printing without any intervention?
> >>>
> >>> The "printer" in this comparison is the KPA500 and the two
> "computers" are the K3 and the KX3.
> >>>
> >>> It is not unreasonable IMHO to expect that a reset of the KPA500
> would be required.
> >>>
> >>> If the KPA500 were simply an amplifier with no communications
> capability with the driving transceiver, switching from one source of
> RF input to another should proceed without regard to whatever is the
> driving device, but your KPA500 is more than "just an amplifier"
> because it can communicate with the K3 or KX3 driving transceiver.
> Expecting the KPA500 to switch data streams from two different
> transceivers with no intervening reset is not realistic.
> >>>
> >>> 73,
> >>> Don W3FPR
> >>>
> >>> On 4/22/2014 7:41 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
> >>>> So, is this normal behavior? I wasn't expecting any kind of comms
> between the K3 and the KPA500 that affects the STBY/OPER switching. It
> does seem that a power on/off cycle for the KPA500 is required to
> enable that switch.
> >>>>
> >>>> Is this designed to work this way or is this a flaw in the design
> or maybe a missing mini-feature of configuring two different
> transceivers with the KPA500. I admit to not scouring all of the
> documentation yet on the expected functionality of the STBY/OPER
> switch.
> >>>>
> >>>> 73, phil, K7PEH
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:14 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Phil,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Let me get this straight - the KPA500 is communicating with the
> K3, then you switch to the KX3 and the KPA500 does not talk with the
> KX3.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If that is what is happening, I would expect that to be the case.
> The communications with the K3 is not synchronized with the attempted
> communications with the KX3, so a reset (power cycle) of the KPA500 may
> be required.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 73,
> >>>>> Don W3FPR
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 4/22/2014 7:02 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
> >>>>>> Some follow-up questions:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> OK, I have the KX3 and K3 configured with the KPA500 and KAT500.
> Everything seems to work with one little exception.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The exception:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- initial conditions, K3 is on and switched to use the
> KPA500 and KAT500. KX3 is off.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- using K3 and so on works fine with amp on or with amp in
> standby.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- I turn off K3. Leave KPA500 on but in STBY mode.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- Switch coax from K3 to KX3 (1x2 switch).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- Turn on KX3. KPA500 still in STBY mode.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- Attempt to switch KPA500 to OPER from STBY but switch does
> not work. If I power off the
> >>>>>> KPA500 (front panel switch) and power back on then switch
> works fine.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have experimented with all kinds of starting initial
> conditions
> >>>>>> and order of events but whenever the KPA500 is left on after
> >>>>>> using the K3 and then switching to the KX3, the switch on the
> >>>>>> KPA500 to go from STBY to OPER does not work. I always have to
> cycle the power from the front panel on/off switch.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>>> Elecraft mailing list
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> >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>>>
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> >>>> [hidden email]
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
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> >> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
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> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: KE7X KX3 Book and Configuring: KX3, K3, KPA500, and KAT500

Given the fact that band data pullup resistors are included in the K3,
the only certain way to assure you are going to "get what you want"
would be to disconnect the K3 to KPA500 cable when using another
transceiver.

There may be a possibility of leaving the K3 powered on with the cable
connected, but that sounds 'iffy' to me because the K3 would be
determining the band that the KPA500 selects.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/23/2014 9:58 AM, Cady, Fred wrote:

> Good morning all.
> Sorry I haven't chipped in before.
> I think Jack's comment "...something else going on..." is right on.
>
> The band line pull-ups in the K3 are somewhat problematic. They weren't there in the first placed (which was good design) but were added to the K3 early on to compensate for band decoders that didn't have pull ups (not good design). So that explains why the KPA500 shows 5.3 MHZ when the K3 is turned off.
>
> However, neither of the key lines from the K3 (KEY OUT and KEYOUT_LP in ACC, K3 schematic of June 2010) are pulled up. One is an open drain and one an open collector. These two lines are wire-ORed together in the KPA500. Wire-OR means either KEY OUT or KEYOUT_LP or both can key the KPA500. So I don't think that is what is causing the behavior you see.
>
> I don't have the KX3 in the mix here at the moment but I tried the following:
>
> K3 on 15 m, KPA on in Operate mode showing 21 MHZ.
> Turn K3 off. KPA switches to Standby immediately and then shows 5.3 MHZ a second or two later (significant delay there).
> K3 still off. KPA switch from Standby to Operate and back and forth no problem.
> K3 still off, KPA in Standby. Ground the KPA keying line PA KEY. KPA can switch to operate and back and forth no problem. When in Operate the * shows on the display as expected (saying the amp key line is low).
>
> Another culprit might be DIGOUT1, although that too is an open collector output. I wouldn't expect that to be doing anything when the K3 is off but if you see a _ in the KPA display, that means the amp is inhibited when you try to key because INHIBIT in enabled and DIGOUT1 is low.
>
> Firmware: K3 4.83, KPA 1.38
>
> What is your firmware? There was a firmware change in the KPA a while ago that fixed a power up problem.
>
> Cheers,
> Fred
>
>