KIO3B

[jeff stai-2]

I have questions... I am VERY excited at the notion that I will be able to
eliminate "real" serial ports from my life....

1. Will we be able to transmit "true" 45.45 baud FSK RTTY via the USB port?

2. Will the FSK transmit in the manner consistent with certain popular
contest loggers that support SO2V - specifically, two virtual COM ports
that key transmit based on VFO A and VFO B? (This would be in addition to
the virtual COM port for rig control.)

3. I have no doubt the sound card spec will be good, but I'm still curious
as to what the specs will be. ;)

4. I suppose it is too late to ask you to put the audio connections - which
I will probably still fiddle with the most - above the ACC/USB/serial
ports? ;)

Thanks and 73! jeff wk6i

--
Jeff Stai ~ [hidden email]
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[Dr. William J. Schmidt, II]

A baby step forward.  Another serial port?  That still puts it behind most radios in com capabilities. I built my own KIO3 replacement with an ethernet server to control all of the functions remotely and had thought maybe we would see that, but it was not to be. Maybe i need to market that now myself.


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email:  [hidden email]
 

> On May 15, 2015, at 4:05 PM, Jeff Stai <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have questions... I am VERY excited at the notion that I will be able to
> eliminate "real" serial ports from my life....
>
> 1. Will we be able to transmit "true" 45.45 baud FSK RTTY via the USB port?
>
> 2. Will the FSK transmit in the manner consistent with certain popular
> contest loggers that support SO2V - specifically, two virtual COM ports
> that key transmit based on VFO A and VFO B? (This would be in addition to
> the virtual COM port for rig control.)
>
> 3. I have no doubt the sound card spec will be good, but I'm still curious
> as to what the specs will be. ;)
>
> 4. I suppose it is too late to ask you to put the audio connections - which
> I will probably still fiddle with the most - above the ACC/USB/serial
> ports? ;)
>
> Thanks and 73! jeff wk6i
>
> --
> Jeff Stai ~ [hidden email]
> Twisted Oak Winery ~ http://www.twistedoak.com/
> Facebook ~ http://www.facebook.com/twistedoak
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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[Lyle Johnson]

For FSK operation you need to use the FSK input pin on the Accessory
connector, the same as a K3.  AFSK, of course, can be routed through the
USB audio path.

73,

Lyle KK7P

> 1. Will we be able to transmit "true" 45.45 baud FSK RTTY via the USB port?

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[Sverre Holm (LA3ZA)]

Sound card specs - which sound card?

As the K3-family produces the audio digitally and the USB is digital, there isn't really any need for any sound card anymore.

jeff stai-2 wrote

3. I have no doubt the sound card spec will be good, but I'm still curious
as to what the specs will be. ;)

[jeff stai-2]

On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 1:35 AM, Sverre Holm (LA3ZA) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sound card specs - which sound card?
>
> As the K3-family produces the audio digitally and the USB is digital, there
> isn't really any need for any sound card anymore.
>
>
> jeff stai-2 wrote
> > 3. I have no doubt the sound card spec will be good, but I'm still
> curious
> > as to what the specs will be. ;)
>
>

From the K3S FAQ:

"...the new USB port integrates
computer remote control and line-level audio. This eliminates the
need for a sound card or external converters and their associated
cables. Supports Windows, Linux and Apple platforms."

So apparently the new USB port will present a sound card interface to the
OS. That's one sound card spec right there. ;)

But also, consider that the KIO3B will be available as a retrofit to the
K3. Therefore it must interface in the same way as a KIO3A. That means any
digital audio passed via USB will become analog audio as it enters or exits
the KIO3B.

73 jeff wk6i

--
Jeff Stai ~ [hidden email]
Twisted Oak Winery ~ http://www.twistedoak.com/
Facebook ~ http://www.facebook.com/twistedoak
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[Ed Muns]

"True" 45.45 baud FSK (with no bit timing jitter and near perfect overall
bit timing) is available via the KIO3B USB port, *IF* the logger or other
application program sends ASCII text via KY commands.  This is really the
best way to do FSK with the K3, or any radio.  Minimal cabling, no PC Serial
port, no K3 ACC port connection, highest performance.  Only a SMOP for the
application folks.  Elecraft has done their part of the system design quite
well, including properly filtered FSK for minimum bandwidth.

Ed W0YK

___________________________________________________________________________

Lyle KK7P wrote:

For FSK operation you need to use the FSK input pin on the Accessory
connector, the same as a K3.  AFSK, of course, can be routed through the USB
audio path.

Jeff WK6I wrote:

> 1. Will we be able to transmit "true" 45.45 baud FSK RTTY via the USB
port?

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[jeff stai-2]

On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 12:45 PM, Ed Muns <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Only a SMOP for the
> application folks.
>

So, you're proposing cat-herding? ;)


> Elecraft has done their part of the system design quite
> well, including properly filtered FSK for minimum bandwidth.
>

Roger that. 73 jeff wk6i


--
Jeff Stai ~ [hidden email]
Twisted Oak Winery ~ http://www.twistedoak.com/
Facebook ~ http://www.facebook.com/twistedoak
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[iw1ayd]

Hi Ed and all.
That's interesting, but not resolutive, nor a full solution for
everyone. It will introduces changes that needs to be addressed.
But even if addressed, those changes, will not give such a great
solution redly usable by for everyone. I.E. not contesting with a medium
or big SO setup.

First, Ed, as you pointed out. there will be the need of another setting
in a new programmed set of TTY programs.

Second, this will be moving the TXing/translating of 7 bits to 5 bits
tasks from the PC or the interface /controller just into the radio.  I
don't see it as a solution, but just as integration of another
virtualized items.  Any single physical item that fail will trash down
several virtual items.

Third, I strongly hope that the USB onto the KIO3B interface is on an
insulated USB - inside the radio. If it isn't electrical noise noise
will come from each side to the other. Some RFI and EMI may arise in
particular installations. The Liquid Music approach is showing rules
that apply here. The right quality doesn't stay on high ends but in
simple and effective solutions, since the layout of power rails.

The first point is a wait if any programmers is interested it. This will
be a another cable, USB this time, to be connected to the radio (1).
Where is the PTT now, a CAT command on USB? Does anybody still need
sequencing or other signals? Quick and dirty? Add a cable not
subctracting all the others.
The second point also introduce the need of a controller to tie two
radios together. This will not superseded by a USB add on for the radio.
Why a second controller that tie radios to a PC: SO2R. Or, more simply,
control via a single points different commands to different I/O even
with single radio ... not having to use other interfaces and boxes to do it.

USB by itself couldn't seem to be a problem, but it will have some
pitfalls: the radio processor capacity in any season, the needs of a
controller interface for other tasks (i.e. SO2R related), the still
needed capacity of a PC (i.e. its processor and OS configuration) to
pack 7 bits data into the USB stream. This last will not solve the CPU
capabilities issues, but thankfully move all those to better timings
realm. That's the only good thing adding an USB to communicate in
between the radio and the PC. It moves the strict timing problem of a 5
bits UART emulations into the not so strict problems of a simple  ASCII
communication - program side. But still leaving all the code or
libraries intervention to communicate on a USB bus with its drivers
deeply run by the same CPU. This is one of the why a multi/multi CPU is
anyway preferred when used with latest OSs.

The third consideration USB insulation may require someone more expert
than me. But out of the noise propagation quite granted with Galvanic,
metallic, continuity there is some more prosaic aspects. Digital signals
doesn't give insulation by itself, that's a job for the wire transport.
Until yesterday we have used insulated interface and now what?

The new KIO3B doesn't seems to me such interesting out of casual RTTY.
It's giving, maybe, a solution that will only aggravate others problems.
Maybe, as others already and rightly pointed out, it's too  early to
discuss about. For this reason I am just on the surface here, not going
to deep with other, bot corollaries or mains, considerations

                    73 de iw1ayd Salvo

PS real changes are to be made on faster and sharable interfaces, data
transports and presentations. Moving a serial in or out a PC will not
solve anything, it will just move the problems. Problems that already
have workable, effective and high available, solutions made within
Microham interfaces. Use a knife as a knife and a fork as a fork.

On 17/05/2015 02:30, [hidden email] wrote:

> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 15:45:28 -0400
> From: "Ed Muns"<[hidden email]>
> To:<[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KIO3B
> Message-ID: <93A7AE215A1F405ABE58128F1D34DCFC@X2201>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> "True" 45.45 baud FSK (with no bit timing jitter and near perfect overall
> bit timing) is available via the KIO3B USB port,*IF*  the logger or other
> application program sends ASCII text via KY commands.  This is really the
> best way to do FSK with the K3, or any radio.  Minimal cabling, no PC Serial
> port, no K3 ACC port connection, highest performance.  Only a SMOP for the
> application folks.  Elecraft has done their part of the system design quite
> well, including properly filtered FSK for minimum bandwidth.
>
> Ed W0YK

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