Elecraft

KNB3 and my noise blanker issue

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Mike Smith VE9AA

KNB3 and my noise blanker issue

Going through all the menus today (after upgrading to the latest firmware) I
do not see the KNB3 option in my menu system?!

Is that (maybe) why my IF noise blanker is not working? The board is either:

Gone

unhooked

damaged

Ideas?/Comments?

Tnx

Mike VE9AA

Mike, Coreen & Corey

Keswick Ridge, NB

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Don Wilhelm

Re: KNB3 and my noise blanker issue

Mike,

The KNB3 menu item was removed with MCU firmware 5.20 (see the release
notes).

The K3 will not operate without the KNB3, so there is no need for a menu
entry.

What kind of noise are you trying to eliminate? The NB only works on
impulse type noise such as may be experienced from automotive ignition
noise or electric fence noise.
If you are expecting it to remove local 'hum' from neighbors electronic
devices or atmospheric noise, it will not be effective. Use the NR
function for that type of noise.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/15/2016 4:14 PM, Mike Smith VE9AA wrote:
> Going through all the menus today (after upgrading to the latest firmware) I
> do not see the KNB3 option in my menu system?!
>
> Is that (maybe) why my IF noise blanker is not working? The board is either:
> Gone
> unhooked
> damaged
> Ideas?/Comments?
>

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Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: KNB3 and my noise blanker issue

In reply to this post by Mike Smith VE9AA

Per the manual at page 25 (K3, p 27 for K3S),

"The NB icon will flash slowly if the I.F. blanker setting is too high for
the present signal conditions. If this happens, use a lower setting."
There's more to be read on the subject at that page in the manual.

Found the page by searching the Elecraft users manual PDF for "flash".
Using the search function in the free Adobe PDF Reader on manual or
schematic PDF's has saved me a ton of frustration and time. It is my number
one tool for taking care of RTFM before diving in.

From my own experience, the setting of the ATT/PRE and RF gain will
decidedly affect how well the IF NB is working.

This is decidedly NOT an issue specific to K3 or Elecraft, as it was a
consideration with analog tube type radios designed designed in the 20th
century. It was/is just about knowing where the blanking threshold is at
your setting and setting preselect, preamp, RF Gain, attenuators, whatever
so that the blanking threshold is NOT cutting into regular signal levels
but is catching the noise peaks. Aside from NB flashing, I could create the
same symptoms you are describing with my long-ago tube radios

73, Guy K2AV

On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Mike Smith VE9AA <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Going through all the menus today (after upgrading to the latest firmware)
> I
> do not see the KNB3 option in my menu system?!
>
> Is that (maybe) why my IF noise blanker is not working? The board is
> either:
>
> Gone
>
> unhooked
>
> damaged
>
> Ideas?/Comments?
>
> Tnx
>
> Mike VE9AA
>
>
>
> Mike, Coreen & Corey
>
> Keswick Ridge, NB
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Mike Smith VE9AA

Re: KNB3 and my noise blanker issue

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

It flashes once I stop transmitting (even at 0.1watt output, 0.0w output, or
in TEST mode)..........and continues to flash forever.(in receive)

Mike, Coreen & Corey
Keswick Ridge, NB

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: May 15, 2016 8:37 PM
To: Mike Smith VE9AA
Subject: Re: KNB3 and my noise blanker issue

Mike,

I don't think the flashing on TX is of any consequence. The NB only works
in receive.
Try the various settings. If the particular fence controller has a long
rise time, the NB will not fire on it.

NR may work, but for me, I don't like to use it because it distorts the
signal. Noise reduction looks for what it "thinks is a coorelated signal
and builds a filter around it. It takes a bit of time to build that filter.
It works better on CW than it does on SSB IMHO.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/15/2016 6:01 PM, Mike Smith VE9AA wrote:

> Don,
>
> Thanks. Electric fence popping from very closeby. For the moment, I
> can't eliminate it at the source (long story).
>
> The IF NB appears really to do nothing whatsoever. Also, as soon as I
> transmit, the light (well, not light, but the letters "NB" flashes,
> regardless of any other settings on the rig whatsoever.
>
> Very strange !
>
> Mike, Coreen & Corey
> Keswick Ridge, NB
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: May 15, 2016 6:18 PM
> To: Mike Smith VE9AA; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KNB3 and my noise blanker issue
>
> Mike,
>
> The KNB3 menu item was removed with MCU firmware 5.20 (see the release
> notes).
>
> The K3 will not operate without the KNB3, so there is no need for a
> menu entry.
>
> What kind of noise are you trying to eliminate? The NB only works on
> impulse type noise such as may be experienced from automotive ignition
> noise or electric fence noise.
> If you are expecting it to remove local 'hum' from neighbors
> electronic devices or atmospheric noise, it will not be effective.
> Use the NR function for that type of noise.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> On 5/15/2016 4:14 PM, Mike Smith VE9AA wrote:
>> Going through all the menus today (after upgrading to the latest
>> firmware)
> I
>> do not see the KNB3 option in my menu system?!
>>
>> Is that (maybe) why my IF noise blanker is not working? The board is
> either:
>> Gone
>> unhooked
>> damaged
>> Ideas?/Comments?
>>
>

Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: KNB3 and my noise blanker issue

On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 7:49 PM, Mike Smith VE9AA <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It flashes once I stop transmitting (even at 0.1watt output, 0.0w output,
> or
> in TEST mode)..........and continues to flash forever.(in receive)
>

That is correct, because the flashing is a receive mode output state only
and does not occur while TX. The CPU program code does not flash it while
the K3 is in TX state. The program code for this does not consider TX
output level, or anything TX for that matter. The K3 CPU is analyzing your
RX signals and RX settings situation and giving you a signal whose presence
is explained at page 25 in the K3 manual.

It is just an output from the CPU, running analysis on the number soup in
its memory that is the signal and outputs from other program code.

73, Guy K2AV
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lstavenhagen

Re: KNB3 and my noise blanker issue

Yep, the NB icon is supposed to flash if the setting is overly aggressive. I've seen mine do this on very rare occasions on my K3 when I had it set to the very highest settings (both regular and DSP), though I've only seen it once or twice.

So it's probably working. In fact, on just the right kind of noise, either one set to the max can greatly _increase_ the noise level as seen on the S meter. I've been able to use this, though, to pull out a weak signal in the local noise on 30 meters. Here at home, 30 meters is unbelievably noisy (probably the wall warts in the apartment) and if I really crank up the NB, weak signals sound like 60HZ buzzes instead of tones. But they're actually a lot more readable that way lol.

The DSP noise blanker is easier to discern as having an effect without actual true noise to filter out than the other noise blanker. But if you turn it all the way up to 7, you should still hear it altering even normal band noise somewhat.

73,
LS
W5QD