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KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

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Richard Thorne-4

KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

What gauge wire is used for the HV line between the power supply and
amp? I'd like to build or source a shorter cable.

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC
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Bob Wilson, N6TV

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

I don't see it documented, but it uses a 75A PowerPole connector. Cable
thickness (with insulation) is 1/3rd of an inch so I'm guessing it's AWG
#6. It's VERY heavy.

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 5:04 AM, Richard Thorne <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What gauge wire is used for the HV line between the power supply and amp?
> I'd like to build or source a shorter cable.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rich - N5ZC
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Clay Autery-2

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

If it uses a 75 Amp PP connector, my inclination would be to use the
6AWG MINIMUM. I would be tempted to use the flexible welding cable lead
stock in the largest gauge I could fit in the application space. I'd
trim down the end of the conductor to JUST fit into the 75 AMP crimp
contact. Then, I'd tine the trimmed down end to bond ALL the conductors
together right at the end before I crimped/soldered. Then, I'd
crimp/solder the terminal on making sure not to be sloppy and cause a
fitment issue. If possible, I would put as many twists in the red/black
leads between radio and power supply connection as possible....

I've not investigated the wiring yet, BUT, if there is a ground wire
between the PA chassis and the PS chassis, I would integrate the ground
wire into the power harness in a 3-wire bundle with all three wires as
close to the same length and shinked into a single cable.

But I'm nuts... <smile>

73,

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 28-Jul-18 12:07, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

> I don't see it documented, but it uses a 75A PowerPole connector. Cable
> thickness (with insulation) is 1/3rd of an inch so I'm guessing it's AWG
> #6. It's VERY heavy.
>
> 73,
> Bob, N6TV
>
> On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 5:04 AM, Richard Thorne <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> What gauge wire is used for the HV line between the power supply and amp?
>> I'd like to build or source a shorter cable.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Rich - N5ZC
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Richard Thorne-4

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

In reply to this post by Richard Thorne-4

Looks like I can order a custom cable from powerwerx.com with 75 amp
power poles and 6g wire (assuming that's the correct size).
https://powerwerx.com/custom-dc-power-cables

The crimp tool is not too expensive so it may be worth buying the tool
and rolling my own. I've used 15,30 and 45 amp PP's for years, just
never had a need for 75 amp PP's so I never purchased the equipment.

Rich - N5ZC

On 7/28/2018 7:04 AM, Richard Thorne wrote:

> What gauge wire is used for the HV line between the power supply and
> amp? I'd like to build or source a shorter cable.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rich - N5ZC
> ______________________________________________________________
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Clay Autery-2

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

Only problem, besides price, for the Powerwerx custom cables is that they don't have twisted pair.... only parallel conductors.
73,Clay, KY5G

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Richard Thorne <[hidden email]> Date: 7/28/18 15:52 (GMT-06:00) To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size
Looks like I can order a custom cable from powerwerx.com with 75 amp
power poles and 6g wire (assuming that's the correct size).
https://powerwerx.com/custom-dc-power-cables

The crimp tool is not too expensive so it may be worth buying the tool
and rolling my own. I've used 15,30 and 45 amp PP's for years, just
never had a need for 75 amp PP's so I never purchased the equipment.

Rich - N5ZC

On 7/28/2018 7:04 AM, Richard Thorne wrote:
> What gauge wire is used for the HV line between the power supply and
> amp? I'd like to build or source a shorter cable.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rich -
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Larry (K8UT)

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

In reply to this post by Richard Thorne-4

The stock cable is parallel conductors @ 5.5 feet long. Too short to
reach into the closet in my shack. I bought 10 feet of #6 and the 75 amp
powerpole connectors from Debco for about $22. I did not have the 75 amp
crimp tool and soldered the cable into the connectors.

-larry (K8UT)

------ Original Message ------
From: "Clay Autery" <[hidden email]>
To: "Richard Thorne" <[hidden email]>; "Elecraft Reflector"
<[hidden email]>
Sent: 2018-07-28 16:57:52
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

>Only problem, besides price, for the Powerwerx custom cables is that
>they don't have twisted pair.... only parallel conductors.
>73,Clay, KY5G
>
>
>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>-------- Original message --------From: Richard Thorne
><[hidden email]> Date: 7/28/18 15:52 (GMT-06:00) To: Elecraft
>Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-1500
>Power Supply Cable Size
>Looks like I can order a custom cable from powerwerx.com with 75 amp
>power poles and 6g wire (assuming that's the correct size).
>https://powerwerx.com/custom-dc-power-cables
>
>The crimp tool is not too expensive so it may be worth buying the tool
>and rolling my own. I've used 15,30 and 45 amp PP's for years, just
>never had a need for 75 amp PP's so I never purchased the equipment.
>
>Rich - N5ZC
>
>On 7/28/2018 7:04 AM, Richard Thorne wrote:
>>What gauge wire is used for the HV line between the power supply and
>>amp? I'd like to build or source a shorter cable.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Rich -
>______________________________________________________________
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>Message delivered to [hidden email]

Richard Thorne-4

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

In reply to this post by Richard Thorne-4

Clay,

For a one time deal, the price is competitive compared to buying the
tools, cable and PP's to do it yourself.

Elecraft is using parallel conductors for the HV line between the power
supply and amp, so it fits the bill nicely.

Rich - N5ZC

On 7/28/2018 3:57 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

> Only problem, besides price, for the Powerwerx custom cables is that
> they don't have twisted pair.... only parallel conductors.
>
> 73,
> Clay, KY5G
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Richard Thorne <[hidden email]>
> Date: 7/28/18 15:52 (GMT-06:00)
> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size
>
> Looks like I can order a custom cable from powerwerx.com with 75 amp
> power poles and 6g wire (assuming that's the correct size).
> https://powerwerx.com/custom-dc-power-cables
>
> The crimp tool is not too expensive so it may be worth buying the tool
> and rolling my own. I've used 15,30 and 45 amp PP's for years, just
> never had a need for 75 amp PP's so I never purchased the equipment.
>
> Rich - N5ZC
>
> On 7/28/2018 7:04 AM, Richard Thorne wrote:
> > What gauge wire is used for the HV line between the power supply and
> > amp? I'd like to build or source a shorter cable.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Rich -

Clay Autery-2

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

In reply to this post by Richard Thorne-4

Sure.... like I've said many times, I'm an ocd over-engineer.... and already keep the connectors, housings, and tools on-hand.
Glad you found a solution to meet your needs!!! Enjoy!
73,Clay, KY5G

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Richard Thorne <[hidden email]> Date: 7/28/18 16:06 (GMT-06:00) To: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>, Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

Clay,

For a one time deal, the price is competitive compared to buying the
tools, cable and PP's to do it yourself.

Elecraft is using parallel conductors for the HV line between the
power supply and amp, so it fits the bill nicely.

Rich - N5ZC

On 7/28/2018 3:57 PM, Clay Autery
wrote:

Only problem, besides price, for the Powerwerx custom cables
is that they don't have twisted pair.... only parallel
conductors.

73,
Clay, KY5G

Sent from my
Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Richard Thorne <[hidden email]>
Date: 7/28/18 15:52 (GMT-06:00)
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

Looks like I can order a custom cable from powerwerx.com with 75
amp

power poles and 6g wire (assuming that's the correct size).

https://powerwerx.com/custom-dc-power-cables

The crimp tool is not too expensive so it may be worth buying the
tool

and rolling my own. I've used 15,30 and 45 amp PP's for years,
just

never had a need for 75 amp PP's so I never purchased the
equipment.

Rich - N5ZC

On 7/28/2018 7:04 AM, Richard Thorne wrote:

> What gauge wire is used for the HV line between the power
supply and

> amp? I'd like to build or source a shorter cable.

>

> Thanks

>

> Rich -

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Phil Kane-2

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

In reply to this post by Richard Thorne-4

On 7/28/2018 1:57 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
> Only problem, besides price, for the Powerwerx custom cables is that
> they don't have twisted pair.... only parallel conductors.

Split the PP. Split the conductors. Do the twist. Re-slide the PPs.
I've done that on a bunch of cables. Does not require advanced
engineering degrees or exotic tools.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Clay Autery-2

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

Presuming of course that the "zip cord" cable stock is the size and
flexibility you want/"need". PP crimp tools are hardly exotic.... And
believe it or not.... some of us enjoy making our own cables... <smile>

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 28-Jul-18 22:11, Phil Kane wrote:

> On 7/28/2018 1:57 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> Only problem, besides price, for the Powerwerx custom cables is that
>> they don't have twisted pair.... only parallel conductors.
> Split the PP. Split the conductors. Do the twist. Re-slide the PPs.
> I've done that on a bunch of cables. Does not require advanced
> engineering degrees or exotic tools.
>
> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
>
> From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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K8ZCT

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

In reply to this post by Larry (K8UT)

I don't think speaker cable has a voltage rating for this purpose.

--
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W2xj

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

Context?

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 30, 2018, at 4:12 AM, K8ZCT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I don't think speaker cable has a voltage rating for this purpose.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

K8ZCT

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

One of previous posts recommended using speaker wire for the remote
connection of the KPA-1500 amplifier to the KPA-1500 power supply.

Speaker wire is made for speaker systems. Although it may look like "lamp
cord" it is not listed
for use to wire up a lamp. You should buy rated "lamp cord" for that
purpose. I think the same applies for dc wiring.

I am not the code inspector for anyone, so do what you want, but if I had a
long remote power supply feed, it would be wired with the proper size cable
rated for the purpose. I suppose one idea could be to splice the larger size
cable required for the longer distance to the Elecraft supplied cable at the
termination end of the amplifier. The power supply protection protects the
smaller Elecraft wire as designed, so going back to it at the very end is
not an issue.

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Jim Brown-10

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

On 7/30/2018 6:43 AM, K8ZCT wrote:
> Speaker wire is made for speaker systems. Although it may look like "lamp cord" it is not listed for use to wire up a lamp.

Right -- it has to do with voltage breakdown of the insulation, which
must be 3kV on the AC power line (in the case of a lightning spike).

It is my understanding that the KPA1500 operates at about 60VDC, and
that cable is carrying 50-60A. There are no lightning spikes to contend
with. All that matters is DC resistance, sufficiently robust physical
construction, and voltage breakdown.

In large sound systems, power amps often produce voltage peaks in the
range of 150V.

FWIW, the Red/White zip cord sold as speaker cable is often pretty lousy
quality. Insulation is made very thick as a marketing measure -- to make
it look "beefier" than it really is, and therefore worth more money. :)
When I've measured some hamfest cables like this with a micrometer I've
found that they're actually smaller than labeled! In other words, we're
getting cheated. :)

73, Jim K9YC

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Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

Be VERY cautious of unknown Red/White wire, either twisted or mesh shielded. That is the industry standard color code for Iron/Constantan, Type J Thermocouple wire. It has MUCH higher resistance than the same size copper wire.

73, Charlie k3ICH

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 3:32 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

On 7/30/2018 6:43 AM, K8ZCT wrote:
> Speaker wire is made for speaker systems. Although it may look like "lamp cord" it is not listed for use to wire up a lamp.

Right -- it has to do with voltage breakdown of the insulation, which must be 3kV on the AC power line (in the case of a lightning spike).

It is my understanding that the KPA1500 operates at about 60VDC, and that cable is carrying 50-60A. There are no lightning spikes to contend with. All that matters is DC resistance, sufficiently robust physical construction, and voltage breakdown.

In large sound systems, power amps often produce voltage peaks in the range of 150V.

FWIW, the Red/White zip cord sold as speaker cable is often pretty lousy quality. Insulation is made very thick as a marketing measure -- to make it look "beefier" than it really is, and therefore worth more money. :) When I've measured some hamfest cables like this with a micrometer I've found that they're actually smaller than labeled! In other words, we're getting cheated. :)

73, Jim K9YC

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K8ZCT

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Jim Brown is on the National Electrical Code Committee, so he knows what he
is saying and I would trust his opinion 100%!

I guess my thought on any remote wiring is, if your really going to go
through all the effort to do the project, then do it with materials, that
you know when you purchase them are going to work for the duration of the
installation, and provide you a reliable and safe installation. Cost should
not be your only consideration. I have never seen any detailed
specifications on speaker wire, when I have bought it to wire up my audio
system. However, I knew that I was using it to wire up speakers, and the
speakers were not a long distance from the amplifier.

If the remote run is long, voltage drop in the cable is very critical. You
also should consider protecting the wiring, so you may need to think of
using conduit or some type of protected raceway as having wires carrying 60V
in the open is also not a good idea. I think that considering diesel
locomotive wire or similar flexible cable would be a good solution. It all
depends on how far away the remote supply is located from the main amplifier
and where it is being routed to the final destination.

Unfortunately, I have seen people try to use speaker wire or lamp cord to do
provide power in crazy ways.

One guy I remember years ago was a recent immigrant from Eastern Europe with
no electrical knowledge although he was an engineer. He wired his entire
basement with speaker wire. Of course, I politely told him that was not a
good idea, and that it was against the local and National Electrical Code to
install. His initial response was that he thought is was a lot easier to
install than the solid wire cable called Romex.

Bill, K8ZCT

--
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Clay Autery-2

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

Every successful project begins with a thorough analysis of the
REQUIREMENTS and CONDITIONS.
Proper design seeks to satisfy the entries on these lists within the
available funding.

Success when skipping these steps is pure luck and coincidence.

73,

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 31-Jul-18 07:13, K8ZCT wrote:

> Jim Brown is on the National Electrical Code Committee, so he knows what he
> is saying and I would trust his opinion 100%!
>
> I guess my thought on any remote wiring is, if your really going to go
> through all the effort to do the project, then do it with materials, that
> you know when you purchase them are going to work for the duration of the
> installation, and provide you a reliable and safe installation. Cost should
> not be your only consideration. [...]
> Bill, K8ZCT
>
>

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

Otherwise a science project with unknown results.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 31, 2018, at 7:59 AM, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Every successful project begins with a thorough analysis of the REQUIREMENTS and CONDITIONS.
> Proper design seeks to satisfy the entries on these lists within the available funding.
>
> Success when skipping these steps is pure luck and coincidence.
>
> 73,
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> (318) 518-1389
>
>> On 31-Jul-18 07:13, K8ZCT wrote:
>> Jim Brown is on the National Electrical Code Committee, so he knows what he
>> is saying and I would trust his opinion 100%!
>>
>> I guess my thought on any remote wiring is, if your really going to go
>> through all the effort to do the project, then do it with materials, that
>> you know when you purchase them are going to work for the duration of the
>> installation, and provide you a reliable and safe installation. Cost should
>> not be your only consideration. [...]
>> Bill, K8ZCT
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Jim Brown-10

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

In reply to this post by K8ZCT

On 7/31/2018 5:13 AM, K8ZCT wrote:
> Jim Brown is on the National Electrical Code Committee,

Sorry, I'm not, and have never been. I do own an old copy of the NEC
code, and have studied parts of it that affect the pro audio systems
that I designed before I retired. I am a member of the AES Standards
Committee, and Vice-Chair of the Working Group on EMC (RFI). And I was a
principal author of all AES Standards on EMC.

> so he knows what he
> is saying and I would trust his opinion 100%!

My comments in this thread are based on fundamental electrical
engineering principles like Ohm's Law, and my knowledge of NEC
requirements.

73, Jim K9YC

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k6dgw

Re: KPA-1500 Power Supply Cable Size

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Good, Fast, Cheap ... choose two.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 7/31/2018 7:21 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> Otherwise a science project with unknown results.
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 31, 2018, at 7:59 AM, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Every successful project begins with a thorough analysis of the REQUIREMENTS and CONDITIONS.
>> Proper design seeks to satisfy the entries on these lists within the available funding.
>>
>> Success when skipping these steps is pure luck and coincidence.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ______________________
>> Clay Autery, KY5G
>> (318) 518-1389
>>