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KPA500 Clicks & Pops

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

KPA500 Clicks & Pops

What is the recommended solution to stopping the clicks and pops from
the KPA500 as the amp heats during transmission and cools during
receive? I've seen one that suggested replacing the screws in the Z
bracket with 4-40 x 1/4". Any traction to this?

The amp performs absolutely fantastic. The clicks and pops are more
annoying when working high duty cycle modes.

Thanks in advance.

73

Bob, K4TAX

KPA500 s/n 3519

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Nr4c

Re: KPA500 Clicks & Pops

Ear plugs.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Oct 14, 2018, at 10:52 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> What is the recommended solution to stopping the clicks and pops from the KPA500 as the amp heats during transmission and cools during receive? I've seen one that suggested replacing the screws in the Z bracket with 4-40 x 1/4". Any traction to this?
>
> The amp performs absolutely fantastic. The clicks and pops are more annoying when working high duty cycle modes.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
> KPA500 s/n 3519
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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ANDY DURBIN

KPA500 Clicks & Pops

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

I found this quite annoying too. My approach was to try to understand how the Z bracket temperature varied relative to the heat sink temperature. I placed a thermistor on the front end of the Z bracket and another on the heat sink fin closest to the Z bracket. I logged the standard PA temperature and these additional thermistor temperatures for every transmission I made (still do). I established baseline temperature characteristics and planned to use this data to see if any mods I made changed the characteristics.

Surprise! - When I though I had enough data to move on to the next step in the investigation it stopped clicking.

Adding the thermistors only required removal of the front panel and the Z bracket screws were no touched. It continued to click after the thermistors were added and then stopped a few weeks later.

The data show the rapid change in temperature is at the PA sensor only. The heat sink and Z bracket change much more slowly and never have a large temperature difference. Their temperatures do cross over though.

One problem with temperature logging is that I had no data, except for my test notes , on the clicks themselves. I had planned to added some inexpensive sound detection modules and add this data to the logger. That's on hold until the clicks come back.

It's really nice not to have the amp click continuously on every FT8 transmission. I wish I knew what fixed it.

73,

Andy k3wyc
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: KPA500 Clicks & Pops

I've tried to determine where the clicks originate without success.
I've loosened screws on the top and right side and tightened screws on
the top and right side. No difference. Perhaps someone at Elecraft will
add a comment in this regard.

I did observe that the 5 screws at the center of the top cover are
longer than the others. I'm really at a loss as to the somewhat
annoying Rice Krispies Snap Crackle and Pop. Still love the amp in
all other aspects.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 10/16/2018 8:52 AM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:

> I found this quite annoying too. My approach was to try to understand how the Z bracket temperature varied relative to the heat sink temperature. I placed a thermistor on the front end of the Z bracket and another on the heat sink fin closest to the Z bracket. I logged the standard PA temperature and these additional thermistor temperatures for every transmission I made (still do). I established baseline temperature characteristics and planned to use this data to see if any mods I made changed the characteristics.
>
>
> Surprise! - When I though I had enough data to move on to the next step in the investigation it stopped clicking.
>
>
> Adding the thermistors only required removal of the front panel and the Z bracket screws were no touched. It continued to click after the thermistors were added and then stopped a few weeks later.
>
>
> The data show the rapid change in temperature is at the PA sensor only. The heat sink and Z bracket change much more slowly and never have a large temperature difference. Their temperatures do cross over though.
>
>
> One problem with temperature logging is that I had no data, except for my test notes , on the clicks themselves. I had planned to added some inexpensive sound detection modules and add this data to the logger. That's on hold until the clicks come back.
>
>
> It's really nice not to have the amp click continuously on every FT8 transmission. I wish I knew what fixed it.
>
>
> 73,
>
> Andy k3wyc
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

Dennis Moore

Re: KPA500 Clicks & Pops

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if
those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory
assembled units?

Dennis NJ6G

On 10/14/2018 19:52, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> What is the recommended solution to stopping the clicks and pops from
> the KPA500 as the amp heats during transmission and cools during
> receive? I've seen one that suggested replacing the screws in the Z
> bracket with 4-40 x 1/4". Any traction to this?
>
> The amp performs absolutely fantastic. The clicks and pops are more
> annoying when working high duty cycle modes.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
> KPA500 s/n 3519

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: KPA500 Clicks & Pops

Mine is a KPA500-F s/n 3519 thus it is factory assembled.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 10/16/2018 4:13 PM, Dennis Moore wrote:

> I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if
> those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory
> assembled units?
>
> Dennis NJ6G
>
>
> On 10/14/2018 19:52, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> What is the recommended solution to stopping the clicks and pops from
>> the KPA500 as the amp heats during transmission and cools during
>> receive? I've seen one that suggested replacing the screws in the Z
>> bracket with 4-40 x 1/4". Any traction to this?
>>
>> The amp performs absolutely fantastic. The clicks and pops are more
>> annoying when working high duty cycle modes.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>> KPA500 s/n 3519
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Bill K9YEQ

Re: KPA500 Clicks & Pops

In reply to this post by Dennis Moore

I did a FT on the device and never an issue. Building requires a bit of electro mechanical skills that some do not have. When I read the issues, I wonder about how it was built or modified.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

https://wrj-tech.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Dennis Moore
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 4:14 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory assembled units?

Dennis NJ6G

On 10/14/2018 19:52, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

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KENT TRIMBLE

Re: KPA500 Clicks & Pops

In reply to this post by Dennis Moore

Mine was a kit (sn 267) and I've never heard any noises from it whatever.

Kent K9ZTV

On 10/16/2018 4:13 PM, Dennis Moore wrote:
> I wonder if those with the kit experience more noise than those with
> factory assembled units?
>

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Ed Pflueger

Re: KPA500 Clicks & Pops

In reply to this post by Dennis Moore

Mine was a kit and does the same thing. Sort of like Railroad Welded Rail, in the summer it expands and shrinks in the winter. We had the same issue with #6 solid copper on the communications lines. It only does it on the KPA500 when I do a lot of RTTY or FT8. Very seldom on SSB or CW.

ED..AB4IQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dennis Moore
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 4:14 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops

I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory assembled units?

Dennis NJ6G

On 10/14/2018 19:52, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

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Edward A. Dauer

KPA500 Clicks & Pops

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

I've not experienced the problem with kit-built S/N 0651. But then, I have never used it on high duty cycle data modes.

Ted, KN1CBR

------------------------------

Message: 25
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:13:55 -0700
From: Dennis Moore <[hidden email]>
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if
those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory
assembled units?

Dennis NJ6G

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Jim Brown-10

Re: KPA500 Clicks & Pops

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

On 10/16/2018 1:56 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> I've tried to determine where the clicks originate without success.

This is a much discussed issue. Check the archive. Call or email
Elecraft if you want to know more.

73, Jim K9YC

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: KPA500 Clicks & Pops

In reply to this post by Edward A. Dauer

I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes. Issues are not really noted on SSB or CW modes.

I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue

Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented rather negatively on the point.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 16, 2018, at 4:52 PM, Dauer, Edward <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I've not experienced the problem with kit-built S/N 0651. But then, I have never used it on high duty cycle data modes.
>
> Ted, KN1CBR
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:13:55 -0700
> From: Dennis Moore <[hidden email]>
> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if
> those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory
> assembled units?
>
> Dennis NJ6G
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Don Wilhelm

Re: KPA500 Clicks & Pops

All,

If you can figure out how to keep the relatively thin "Z" panel from
expanding and contracting as it is heated and cooled, you will have a
solution to the problem.

It reminds me of my childhood days living with a coal furnace. The
furnace had an inner cast iron furnace surrounded by a sheet metal shell
as the air plenum.
It was comforting on a cold winter's morning to hear that sheet metal
expanding because that was the 1st indication that warm air was coming.

It was my job to shake down the ashes, put coal in and stoke up the fire
in the mornings.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/16/2018 5:59 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes. Issues are not really noted on SSB or CW modes.
>
> I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue
>
> Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented rather negatively on the point.
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 16, 2018, at 4:52 PM, Dauer, Edward <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I've not experienced the problem with kit-built S/N 0651. But then, I have never used it on high duty cycle data modes.
>>
>> Ted, KN1CBR
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 25
>> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:13:55 -0700
>> From: Dennis Moore <[hidden email]>
>> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>
>> I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if
>> those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory
>> assembled units?
>>
>> Dennis NJ6G
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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ANDY DURBIN

KPA500 Clicks & Pops

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

"If you can figure out how to keep the relatively thin "Z" panel from expanding and contracting as it is heated and cooled, you will have a solution to the problem."

If the Z bracket really is the source of the noise, and I'm not yet convinced it is, then there is no need to stop it expanding and contracting. All that is needed is to change the mechanical interface between the Z bracket and whatever is binding and releasing to cause the clicks.

My plan was to put thin Mylar sheet between the Z bracket and the parts to which it is attached. I was going to start with the Z bracket to heat sink interface. I was not willing to do that until I had characterized the Z bracket temperature dynamics and understood the heat flow between the Z bracket and the heat sink. I have the data but no longer have the clicks.

73,

Andy k3wyc
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Edward R Cole

Re: KPA500 Clicks & Pops

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Bob,

A question about your statement that you run 400w in digital modes
(assuming you mean FT8, etc. and not RTTY). That seems pretty extreme.

I pretty much ignore HF usage as I am not on HF very much (primarily
an eme'er on 6m+). But back at the beginnings of psk-31 I built a HB
interface* for my FT-847 and did a bit of 14.070 operating (with a
dipole). I was recommended to not exceeding 25w (or 25% full
power). Everyone seemed to do quite well on psk-31 with low power
and some ran at QRP (<5w).

I do not get why I hear of running high power digital when 10% would
communicate easily. You may remonstrate me for running 2m-eme at
1500w on JT-65 but the path loss on 2m-eme is 254 dB+ and contacts
are made over a half-million mile path. Certainly not encountered by
terrestrial HF users.

Not picking on you personally, but you made the statement so figure
maybe would reply. Just curious.

73, Ed - KL7UW
* that I/F later was used for JT-65 on eme 15 years ago. Now use my
K3 directly connected.

Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:59:15 -0500
From: Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]>
To: "Dauer, Edward" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes. Issues are not really
noted on SSB or CW modes.

I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue

Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented
rather negatively on the point.

Bob, K4TAX

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: KPA500 Clicks & Pops

Ed,

Haven’t seen a response from him yet, but he may be taking about 160 meters. From what I have read, that may be an acceptable thing on that band, given QSB, band conditions, and antenna limitations.

Jim / W6JHB

> On Oct 17, 2018, at 1:34 PM, Edward R Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> A question about your statement that you run 400w in digital modes (assuming you mean FT8, etc. and not RTTY). That seems pretty extreme.
>
> I pretty much ignore HF usage as I am not on HF very much (primarily an eme'er on 6m+). But back at the beginnings of psk-31 I built a HB interface* for my FT-847 and did a bit of 14.070 operating (with a dipole). I was recommended to not exceeding 25w (or 25% full power). Everyone seemed to do quite well on psk-31 with low power and some ran at QRP (<5w).
>
> I do not get why I hear of running high power digital when 10% would communicate easily. You may remonstrate me for running 2m-eme at 1500w on JT-65 but the path loss on 2m-eme is 254 dB+ and contacts are made over a half-million mile path. Certainly not encountered by terrestrial HF users.
>
> Not picking on you personally, but you made the statement so figure maybe would reply. Just curious.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> * that I/F later was used for JT-65 on eme 15 years ago. Now use my K3 directly connected.
>
> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:59:15 -0500
> From: Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]>
> To: "Dauer, Edward" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes. Issues are not really noted on SSB or CW modes.
>
> I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue
>
> Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented rather negatively on the point.
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> Dubus-NA Business mail:
> [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Wes Stewart-2

Re: KPA500 Clicks & Pops

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

Ed,

Not picking on you personally either but I fail to understand this attitude that
because some digital mode or another can make QSOs with 10 mW on some path,
everyone else should run only10 mW.

I consider my K3S + KPA500 to be a 500W transceiver (with push buttons for
selecting bands) and that's the way I run it. Often, especially when I'm
beating myself up on 160, I wish for more power. When some of my DX club buddies
tease me about running QRP should I ask them to lower their power so we have parity?

Wes N7WS

ps: When I ran 2-meter EME 30 years ago we actually heard the signals by ear.

On 10/17/2018 1:34 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:

> Bob,
>
> A question about your statement that you run 400w in digital modes (assuming
> you mean FT8, etc. and not RTTY). That seems pretty extreme.
>
> I pretty much ignore HF usage as I am not on HF very much (primarily an eme'er
> on 6m+). But back at the beginnings of psk-31 I built a HB interface* for my
> FT-847 and did a bit of 14.070 operating (with a dipole). I was recommended
> to not exceeding 25w (or 25% full power). Everyone seemed to do quite well on
> psk-31 with low power and some ran at QRP (<5w).
>
> I do not get why I hear of running high power digital when 10% would
> communicate easily. You may remonstrate me for running 2m-eme at 1500w on
> JT-65 but the path loss on 2m-eme is 254 dB+ and contacts are made over a
> half-million mile path. Certainly not encountered by terrestrial HF users.
>
> Not picking on you personally, but you made the statement so figure maybe
> would reply. Just curious.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> * that I/F later was used for JT-65 on eme 15 years ago. Now use my K3
> directly connected.
>
> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:59:15 -0500
> From: Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]>
> To: "Dauer, Edward" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes. Issues are not really noted on SSB
> or CW modes.
>
> I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue
>
> Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented rather
> negatively on the point.
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> Dubus-NA Business mail:
> [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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>

k6dgw

Re: KPA500 Clicks & Pops

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

That digital modes are all "low power modes" is an unfortunate urban
legend, Ed. PSK31 is very narrow and will work well in very narrow RX
bandwidths. Noise power, being proportional to bandwidth, will thus be
less on each end, and lower powers work well. It's also angle
modulation and moderately immune to at least Gaussian noise. JT65, FT8,
and the other Dr. Joe Taylor modes are "weak signal" not "low power"
modes. They operate in roughly a SSB voice channel bandwidth [~3 KHz]
even though each signal is very narrow. They will decode at negative
(S+N)/N ratios in a ~3 KHz channel where there will be many such
signals. With today's abysmal conditions, even 1,500 W may result in a
negative (S+N)/N ratio on the other end. It's the terrestrial
equivalent of your lunar path, and no remonstration is required or deserved.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 10/17/2018 1:34 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:

> Bob,
>
> A question about your statement that you run 400w in digital modes
> (assuming you mean FT8, etc. and not RTTY). That seems pretty extreme.
>
> I pretty much ignore HF usage as I am not on HF very much (primarily
> an eme'er on 6m+). But back at the beginnings of psk-31 I built a HB
> interface* for my FT-847 and did a bit of 14.070 operating (with a
> dipole). I was recommended to not exceeding 25w (or 25% full power).
> Everyone seemed to do quite well on psk-31 with low power and some ran
> at QRP (<5w).
>
> I do not get why I hear of running high power digital when 10% would
> communicate easily. You may remonstrate me for running 2m-eme at
> 1500w on JT-65 but the path loss on 2m-eme is 254 dB+ and contacts are
> made over a half-million mile path. Certainly not encountered by
> terrestrial HF users.
>
> Not picking on you personally, but you made the statement so figure
> maybe would reply. Just curious.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> * that I/F later was used for JT-65 on eme 15 years ago. Now use my
> K3 directly connected.

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

OT - Power and my earlier post

In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2

Wes, Ed, et al;

In my past, having worked EME on 2M, 70cm, and 23cm, I understand path
loss, antenna gain, feed line loss, NF on the mast mounted preamps, amp
power to legal limit, weak signals, and etc.   Now with that said, I'm
no different than anyone trying to work a new one for their DXCC or a
rare DXpedition, a new state or country or grid square.   What ever
power it takes is the rule to be applied.    I don't view FT8 as a low
power mode but it is a weak signal mode. Likewise for PSK, JT9 and
JT65.   At the same time, many of my contacts are made with 50 watts or
less.   I don't run RTTY but I do enjoy a rag chew QSO on SSB or CW.
There again, what ever power it takes to make reliable contact is the rule.

I try to be a gentleman with regard to frequency usage, I consider other
stations on adjacent frequencies, and use the power necessary to make a
specific contact, based on my antennas, band conditions and the strength
of the station I'm trying to work. I work 160M through 6M with 3
antennas. And yes, the 160M antenna is a 1/2 wave center fed wire with
balanced feed line.   That antenna works very nicely using the KAT500
and a nice Balun Designs 1:1 balun sitting on top of the tuner. With
the 4 ele 6M yagi at the top of the tower and another wire antenna for a
total of 3 antennas, I can work any frequency, any band with up to 500
watts from the KPA500 into the feed lines. I don't consider any of my
antennas to be compromises, but typical ham antennas, and I am not
limited by space or deed restrictions either.

Yes, I'm very aware that two way contacts can be made with 10 mW or
less.......under the right conditions.   But what if every ham world
wide were limited to 10mW or less.   I really don't want to think about
it. On the other hand, I've made a 2 way CW contact using a 2mW green
laser. The path was less than 1/2 mile.

Ham radio is a hobby and I've enjoyed it for the past 59 years. I plan
to enjoy it for a few more years as well, as I purchased real estate to
better facilitate my hobby. There is nothing like elevation, being 500
ft above average terrain out to 35 miles. Makes for nice ground gain on
moon rise and moon set as well.

My point in stating I run 400 watts on digital modes is in reference to
how the KPA500 performs and the fact it emits audible cracks and pops.
If I ran 400 watts on RTTY then the issue of power would not be of
concern for the general ham public.   But for digital, the mention of
that power level seems to raise the hair on ones neck.

No harm in asking fellows. I do understand and each to his own objectives.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 10/17/2018 5:13 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> Ed,
>
> Not picking on you personally either but I fail to understand this
> attitude that because some digital mode or another can make QSOs with
> 10 mW on some path, everyone else should run only10 mW.
>
> I consider my K3S + KPA500 to be a 500W transceiver (with push buttons
> for selecting bands) and that's the way I run it. Often, especially
> when I'm beating myself up on 160, I wish for more power. When some of
> my DX club buddies tease me about running QRP should I ask them to
> lower their power so we have parity?
>
> Wes N7WS
>
> ps: When I ran 2-meter EME 30 years ago we actually heard the signals
> by ear.
>
>
> On 10/17/2018 1:34 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:
>> Bob,
>>
>> A question about your statement that you run 400w in digital modes
>> (assuming you mean FT8, etc. and not RTTY). That seems pretty extreme.
>>
>> I pretty much ignore HF usage as I am not on HF very much (primarily
>> an eme'er on 6m+). But back at the beginnings of psk-31 I built a HB
>> interface* for my FT-847 and did a bit of 14.070 operating (with a
>> dipole). I was recommended to not exceeding 25w (or 25% full
>> power). Everyone seemed to do quite well on psk-31 with low power
>> and some ran at QRP (<5w).
>>
>> I do not get why I hear of running high power digital when 10% would
>> communicate easily. You may remonstrate me for running 2m-eme at
>> 1500w on JT-65 but the path loss on 2m-eme is 254 dB+ and contacts
>> are made over a half-million mile path. Certainly not encountered by
>> terrestrial HF users.
>>
>> Not picking on you personally, but you made the statement so figure
>> maybe would reply. Just curious.
>>
>> 73, Ed - KL7UW
>> * that I/F later was used for JT-65 on eme 15 years ago. Now use my
>> K3 directly connected.
>>
>> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:59:15 -0500
>> From: Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]>
>> To: "Dauer, Edward" <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes. Issues are not really
>> noted on SSB or CW modes.
>>
>> I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue
>>
>> Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented
>> rather negatively on the point.
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>> 73, Ed - KL7UW
>> http://www.kl7uw.com
>> Dubus-NA Business mail:
>> [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Jim Brown-10

Re: OT - Power and my earlier post

On 10/17/2018 6:36 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> At the same time, many of my contacts are made with 50 watts or less.

Yup. I mostly use FT8, JT65, and MSK144 on 6M and 160M. I generally run
as much power as I can on 6M, and on 160M to work EU or AF. OTOH, I'm
still trying to finish 160M WAS QRP (need VT and SC), and recently
worked the KH1 expedition on 160 with 5W using FT8. They were
specifically using FT8 trying to put some EU stations in the log. I've
since learned that AA7JV was the op.

73, Jim K9YC

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