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KX3 AFX - Pitch Setting Enhancement ...?

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Grant Youngman-2

KX3 AFX - Pitch Setting Enhancement ...?

One of the reasons I never use this setting is that it seems to be a fixed 700 Hz +/- as “center” in the sound field. I much prefer CW closer to 500 Hz, which always ends up putting the tuned signal in my left ear with this option (and no I’m not terribly hard of hearing in this frequency range).

Have I missed another setting option somewhere? If not, it would be a worthwhile KX3 (and K3?) enhancement to have the AFX Pitch “center” follow the CW Pitch setting of the radio to actually make this function useful.

The CW Binaural option on the TT Orion opened up a very spacious left-right soundstage that made it easy to copy a “centered” CW signal in crowded band conditions even at wider filter settings. You could literally point to every signal …

My K3 isn’t hooked up right now (shack is currently a table on my patio), so I’m not sure if it behaves the same way. In any case redoing the AFX Pitch algorithm would be a very worthwhile enhancement.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

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Nr4c

Re: KX3 AFX - Pitch Setting Enhancement ...?

Try “Dual-Warch”

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Aug 4, 2018, at 3:46 PM, Grant Youngman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> One of the reasons I never use this setting is that it seems to be a fixed 700 Hz +/- as “center” in the sound field. I much prefer CW closer to 500 Hz, which always ends up putting the tuned signal in my left ear with this option (and no I’m not terribly hard of hearing in this frequency range).
>
> Have I missed another setting option somewhere? If not, it would be a worthwhile KX3 (and K3?) enhancement to have the AFX Pitch “center” follow the CW Pitch setting of the radio to actually make this function useful.
>
> The CW Binaural option on the TT Orion opened up a very spacious left-right soundstage that made it easy to copy a “centered” CW signal in crowded band conditions even at wider filter settings. You could literally point to every signal …
>
> My K3 isn’t hooked up right now (shack is currently a table on my patio), so I’m not sure if it behaves the same way. In any case redoing the AFX Pitch algorithm would be a very worthwhile enhancement.
>
> Grant NQ5T
> K3 #2091 KX3 #8342
>
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wayne burdick

Re: KX3 AFX - Pitch Setting Enhancement ...?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Grant Youngman-2

Grant,

The KX3's filter center frequency for all features tracks the sidetone pitch exactly. To change the sidetone and filter pitch, just hold the PITCH switch and rotate the knob above it.

If you set PITCH to 500 Hz, for example, then the regular filters, APF (audio peaking filter), CWT (CW tuning aid), manual spot, autospot, and CW decode will all be centered at 500 Hz.

Regarding your *exact* question (I think): all of the AFX features should also be centered at the selected PITCH. The only exception is if you have a wide filter passband selected. For example, if your PITCH is 500 Hz and you have a filter WIDTH of something greater than about 1000 Hz, then the passband center starts shifting higher. The lower edge of the filter remains near zero beat + 100 Hz to ensure good opposite-sideband rejection at all WIDTH settings.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

> On Aug 4, 2018, at 12:46 PM, Grant Youngman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> One of the reasons I never use this setting is that it seems to be a fixed 700 Hz +/- as “center” in the sound field. I much prefer CW closer to 500 Hz, which always ends up putting the tuned signal in my left ear with this option (and no I’m not terribly hard of hearing in this frequency range).
>
> Have I missed another setting option somewhere? If not, it would be a worthwhile KX3 (and K3?) enhancement to have the AFX Pitch “center” follow the CW Pitch setting of the radio to actually make this function useful.
>
> The CW Binaural option on the TT Orion opened up a very spacious left-right soundstage that made it easy to copy a “centered” CW signal in crowded band conditions even at wider filter settings. You could literally point to every signal …
>
> My K3 isn’t hooked up right now (shack is currently a table on my patio), so I’m not sure if it behaves the same way. In any case redoing the AFX Pitch algorithm would be a very worthwhile enhancement.
>
> Grant NQ5T
> K3 #2091 KX3 #8342
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Grant Youngman-2

Re: KX3 AFX - Pitch Setting Enhancement ...?

Wayne ..

This is the only feature that I’ve found not adjusting properly to the CW PITCH setting … I think everything else works like it’s supposed to.

I just went out — doing battle with coastal gnats and other gnawing insects inhabiting my patio :-) — and tried it again. (There needs to be a bath soap with DEET in it).

Narrowing the receive bandwidth has no effect on sound field centering. A CW PITCH of 700 Hz will center right between the ears when the signal is tuned. With CW PITCH at 500 Hz, it is ALWAYS off to the left and does not center at either wide or narrow bandwidths. When tuning across a signal it slides from right to left (or vice versa) as the signal’s pitch changes like you’d expect. When tuned, however, it won’t center unless CW PITCH is at 700 Hz.

Grant NQ5T

> On Aug 4, 2018, at 9:54 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Grant,
>
> The KX3's filter center frequency for all features tracks the sidetone pitch exactly. To change the sidetone and filter pitch, just hold the PITCH switch and rotate the knob above it.
>
> If you set PITCH to 500 Hz, for example, then the regular filters, APF (audio peaking filter), CWT (CW tuning aid), manual spot, autospot, and CW decode will all be centered at 500 Hz.
>
> Regarding your *exact* question (I think): all of the AFX features should also be centered at the selected PITCH. The only exception is if you have a wide filter passband selected. For example, if your PITCH is 500 Hz and you have a filter WIDTH of something greater than about 1000 Hz, then the passband center starts shifting higher. The lower edge of the filter remains near zero beat + 100 Hz to ensure good opposite-sideband rejection at all WIDTH settings.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>> On Aug 4, 2018, at 12:46 PM, Grant Youngman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> One of the reasons I never use this setting is that it seems to be a fixed 700 Hz +/- as “center” in the sound field. I much prefer CW closer to 500 Hz, which always ends up putting the tuned signal in my left ear with this option (and no I’m not terribly hard of hearing in this frequency range).
>>
>> Have I missed another setting option somewhere? If not, it would be a worthwhile KX3 (and K3?) enhancement to have the AFX Pitch “center” follow the CW Pitch setting of the radio to actually make this function useful.
>>
>> The CW Binaural option on the TT Orion opened up a very spacious left-right soundstage that made it easy to copy a “centered” CW signal in crowded band conditions even at wider filter settings. You could literally point to every signal …
>>
>> My K3 isn’t hooked up right now (shack is currently a table on my patio), so I’m not sure if it behaves the same way. In any case redoing the AFX Pitch algorithm would be a very worthwhile enhancement.
>>
>> Grant NQ5T
>> K3 #2091 KX3 #8342
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>
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>

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: KX3 AFX - Pitch Setting Enhancement ...?

With AFX utilized there is phase shift between left and right audio
channels.   I don't seem to think it is constant phase shift, therefore
changes with frequency. This enhances the bi-aural effect of AFX.   In
the hearing, thus two sources of the same signal, the leading phase will
be the leading direction or location.   As the phase changes with
frequency then the source will appear to change accordingly.   This is
the way the ear determines direction of a sound in the distance. If the
sound arrives at the right ear first, then the sound source is
determined to be from the right.   Likewise for sound arriving to the
left ear first, the source is to the left.

Just my take from an old deaf recording studio engineer.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 8/4/2018 9:33 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:

> Wayne ..
>
> This is the only feature that I’ve found not adjusting properly to the CW PITCH setting … I think everything else works like it’s supposed to.
>
> I just went out — doing battle with coastal gnats and other gnawing insects inhabiting my patio :-) — and tried it again. (There needs to be a bath soap with DEET in it).
>
> Narrowing the receive bandwidth has no effect on sound field centering. A CW PITCH of 700 Hz will center right between the ears when the signal is tuned. With CW PITCH at 500 Hz, it is ALWAYS off to the left and does not center at either wide or narrow bandwidths. When tuning across a signal it slides from right to left (or vice versa) as the signal’s pitch changes like you’d expect. When tuned, however, it won’t center unless CW PITCH is at 700 Hz.
>
> Grant NQ5T
>
>> On Aug 4, 2018, at 9:54 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Grant,
>>
>> The KX3's filter center frequency for all features tracks the sidetone pitch exactly. To change the sidetone and filter pitch, just hold the PITCH switch and rotate the knob above it.
>>
>> If you set PITCH to 500 Hz, for example, then the regular filters, APF (audio peaking filter), CWT (CW tuning aid), manual spot, autospot, and CW decode will all be centered at 500 Hz.
>>
>> Regarding your *exact* question (I think): all of the AFX features should also be centered at the selected PITCH. The only exception is if you have a wide filter passband selected. For example, if your PITCH is 500 Hz and you have a filter WIDTH of something greater than about 1000 Hz, then the passband center starts shifting higher. The lower edge of the filter remains near zero beat + 100 Hz to ensure good opposite-sideband rejection at all WIDTH settings.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>> On Aug 4, 2018, at 12:46 PM, Grant Youngman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> One of the reasons I never use this setting is that it seems to be a fixed 700 Hz +/- as “center” in the sound field. I much prefer CW closer to 500 Hz, which always ends up putting the tuned signal in my left ear with this option (and no I’m not terribly hard of hearing in this frequency range).
>>>
>>> Have I missed another setting option somewhere? If not, it would be a worthwhile KX3 (and K3?) enhancement to have the AFX Pitch “center” follow the CW Pitch setting of the radio to actually make this function useful.
>>>
>>> The CW Binaural option on the TT Orion opened up a very spacious left-right soundstage that made it easy to copy a “centered” CW signal in crowded band conditions even at wider filter settings. You could literally point to every signal …
>>>
>>> My K3 isn’t hooked up right now (shack is currently a table on my patio), so I’m not sure if it behaves the same way. In any case redoing the AFX Pitch algorithm would be a very worthwhile enhancement.
>>>
>>> Grant NQ5T
>>> K3 #2091 KX3 #8342
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
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Lyle Johnson

Re: KX3 AFX - Pitch Setting Enhancement ...?

There are multiple AFX choices for the KX2/3 transceivers.

The PITCH selection uses a fixed set of filters for pitch mapping and as noted by the OP the center frequency does not follow the pitch setting.

At the time it was implemented we thought it worthwhile to include even if it didn't re-center based on the pitch setting.

73,

Lyle KK7P
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Jim Brown-10

Re: KX3 AFX - Pitch Setting Enhancement ...?

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

On 8/4/2018 7:56 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> This is the way the ear determines direction of a sound in the
> distance. If the sound arrives at the right ear first, then the sound
> source is determined to be from the right. Likewise for sound
> arriving to the left ear first, the source is to the left.

Exactly right, Bob. Indeed, TIME difference between sound arrival at the
two ears is the primary determinant of the direction of a sound. It is
FAR more important than loudness. This is the basis of the best of the
stereo sound patents, by Bell Labs c.a. 1936. It depends on spaced
microphones and spaced loudspeakers.

73, Jim K9YC

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Grant Youngman-2

Re: KX3 AFX - Pitch Setting Enhancement ...?

In reply to this post by Lyle Johnson

I appreciate the clarification. At least I’m not crazy this time :-)

I was hoping I’d stumbled on a bug that had been overlooked, rather than a “feature”. Time marches on, and there may be little chance at this point of rewriting this option to follow CW PITCH. Perhaps there could be a fixed selection of a small number of CW PITCH settings with appropriate filter parameters? I think there are quite a few of us who prefer lower frequencies than the apparent default of 700 Hz for CW reception.

In any case, it works better on the KX3 than it does on the K3. On the K3, the function seems to barely work, and requires a very high and unusable tuned pitch to give the sense of the signal being centered between the ears. The overall effect (at least here) with AFX mode set to BIN, is that the right headphone has gone dead. I had to convince myself the right channel was still working by switching AFX on and off several times or changing AFX to a Delay setting.. Virtually everything but very high pitches appear on the left.

Maybe I have some sort of hardware problem (?) I think I discovered all of this very early on, but haven’t used the feature for some time, and my memory is old and short :-)

For anyone curious about binaural CW, the original description (at least the earliest I saw) was in QST 2/86. (Took a while to find it again). The method at that time used 4 or 8 pole analog elliptical filters (one LP, one HP). Other versions using I/Q signals have come along also. TT Orion's “Panoramic Stereo” mode used HP/LP filters plus time delays and was very effective, but I don’t recall if their implementation adjusted filter parameters to center the default CW tone setting either. Haven’t had an Orion for a long time. But on that radio I almost always used the feature on CW …

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

> On Aug 4, 2018, at 11:46 PM, Lyle Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> There are multiple AFX choices for the KX2/3 transceivers.
>
> The PITCH selection uses a fixed set of filters for pitch mapping and as noted by the OP the center frequency does not follow the pitch setting.
>
> At the time it was implemented we thought it worthwhile to include even if it didn't re-center based on the pitch setting.
>
> 73,
>
> Lyle KK7P
> ______________________________________________________________
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Lyle Johnson

Re: KX3 AFX - Pitch Setting Enhancement ...?

There is no "PITCH" mode in the K3 AFX selections, only the KX2/KX3.

73,

Lyle KK7P

On 8/5/18 6:14 AM, Grant Youngman wrote:
> I appreciate the clarification. At least I’m not crazy this time :-)
>
> ...
>
> In any case, it works better on the KX3 than it does on the K3.

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Grant Youngman-2

Re: KX3 AFX - Pitch Setting Enhancement ...?

True. But there is BINaural … I may have misunderstood what that effect is.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

> On Aug 5, 2018, at 10:21 AM, Lyle Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> There is no "PITCH" mode in the K3 AFX selections, only the KX2/KX3.
>
> 73,
>
> Lyle KK7P
>
> On 8/5/18 6:14 AM, Grant Youngman wrote:
>> I appreciate the clarification. At least I’m not crazy this time :-)
>>
>> ...
>>
>> In any case, it works better on the KX3 than it does on the K3.
>

Grant Youngman-2

Re: KX3 AFX - Pitch Setting Enhancement ...?

That would certainly explain why a non-existent feature never seemed to work right. I should follow my own advice and RTFM … :-)

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

> On Aug 5, 2018, at 10:24 AM, Grant Youngman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> True. But there is BINaural … I may have misunderstood what that effect is.
>
> Grant NQ5T
> K3 #2091 KX3 #8342
>
>> On Aug 5, 2018, at 10:21 AM, Lyle Johnson <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> There is no "PITCH" mode in the K3 AFX selections, only the KX2/KX3.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Lyle KK7P
>>
>> On 8/5/18 6:14 AM, Grant Youngman wrote:
>>> I appreciate the clarification. At least I’m not crazy this time :-)
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> In any case, it works better on the KX3 than it does on the K3.
>>
>