[KX3] Antenna Tuner Or Not

[Phil Hystad-3]

I am perplexed and bewildered but not yet bothered.  I can't decide on whether I should order the internal 20 watt ATU or not.  I have the external T1 ATU and can use that but I would buy the internal ATU if there were significant advantages like ease of use.

I plan to use the KX3 in both a portable fashion and mobile in my truck.  I will use as mobile with my Hi-Q screwdriver that is tuned for low SWR via an external drive tuner (like N2VZ turbo tuner) so I will not really need an ATU.  But, I am not going mobile until the 100-watt amp is available.  With portable work, I will be barefoot with the KX3.  I use the T1 now with my KX1.

So, are there advantages to the internal KX3 ATU over the T1.

73, phil, K7PEH

PEH's iPad
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[ny4g]

I believe the tuning range on the internal ATU is very wide.  Someone on the reflector compared the tuning ranges of all the Elecraft ATUs and it is wider than the T1.  Also it will match it to a lower SWR than an LDG tuner.  The measurements indicate that the tuning ranges internal to the K2, K3 and KX3 are all superior.  At least that is what all the numbers say.

Ariel NY4G

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 13, 2012, at 2:14 PM, "Phil Hystad" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am perplexed and bewildered but not yet bothered.  I can't decide on whether I should order the internal 20 watt ATU or not.  I have the external T1 ATU and can use that but I would buy the internal ATU if there were significant advantages like ease of use.
>
> I plan to use the KX3 in both a portable fashion and mobile in my truck.  I will use as mobile with my Hi-Q screwdriver that is tuned for low SWR via an external drive tuner (like N2VZ turbo tuner) so I will not really need an ATU.  But, I am not going mobile until the 100-watt amp is available.  With portable work, I will be barefoot with the KX3.  I use the T1 now with my KX1.
>
> So, are there advantages to the internal KX3 ATU over the T1.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
> PEH's iPad
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[jmgraf]

Phil,

As you note, there are several factors to think about.  However, one thing that I always consider when choosing options is resale value.

You may love your KX3 forever and it may be part of your estate sale.  On the other hand, some day you may want to sell it to finance the purchase of a KX4 or other goody.  In that case I think the internal ATU would definitely increase its value.

73,

John, WA6L

[Gary Bartlett VE1RGB]

Phil, I only use non-resonant wire antennas fed with ladder line through
baluns (4:1 and 9:1).  The K3 ATU (and I think Wayne said that the KX3
transmatch had essentially the same design philosophy) handles the 160M
full-size delta loop on top band through 6M, and the 80M dipole on 80M
through 6M, without flinching.  The challenges to the transmatch are pretty
severe some times, especially during rain and snow, but the *Tuner* handles
it with ease.  [With experience, I can now judge the rate of precipitation
by the amount of touching up required by the transmatch (seriously)].

While I didn't much like it and I doubt that it was very efficient, I found
one of my friends operating my K3 using the 80M dipole loaded on 160M with
apparent ease so far as matching was concerned.  I assume that the ladder
line became part of the radiating portion of the antenna in this particular
case.

The other advantages, of course, are the nice integration of the Elecraft
ATU with the radio, plus if you take the radio into the field a lot like I
do, it's one box and a couple of cables fewer to concern yourself with.  If
one has the option, buying the radio and the matching device from the same
source (that would be Elecraft) makes a lot of practical sense.  During
tuning, the K3 ATU I also very quiet compared with another transmatch I once
owned.

        73,
        Gary VE1RGB

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad
Sent: September 13, 2012 3:13 PM
To: Elecraft List
Subject: [Elecraft] [KX3] Antenna Tuner Or Not

I am perplexed and bewildered but not yet bothered.  I can't decide on
whether I should order the internal 20 watt ATU or not.  

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Phil Hystad-3]

Gary and all the others who responded to my question (on and off the net)...

Thanks for your comments and suggestions.  I have made up my mind.  I will be ordering the KX3 Internal ATU with my KX3 order.

I hear of a price increase -- that has not happened yet has it?  Maybe I should place my order when I get home from work this afternoon.

73, phil, K7PEH

PEH's iPad



On Sep 13, 2012, at 12:19 PM, gary bartlett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Phil, I only use non-resonant wire antennas fed with ladder line through
> baluns (4:1 and 9:1).  The K3 ATU (and I think Wayne said that the KX3
> transmatch had essentially the same design philosophy) handles the 160M
> full-size delta loop on top band through 6M, and the 80M dipole on 80M
> through 6M, without flinching.  The challenges to the transmatch are pretty
> severe some times, especially during rain and snow, but the *Tuner* handles
> it with ease.  [With experience, I can now judge the rate of precipitation
> by the amount of touching up required by the transmatch (seriously)].
>
> While I didn't much like it and I doubt that it was very efficient, I found
> one of my friends operating my K3 using the 80M dipole loaded on 160M with
> apparent ease so far as matching was concerned.  I assume that the ladder
> line became part of the radiating portion of the antenna in this particular
> case.
>
> The other advantages, of course, are the nice integration of the Elecraft
> ATU with the radio, plus if you take the radio into the field a lot like I
> do, it's one box and a couple of cables fewer to concern yourself with.  If
> one has the option, buying the radio and the matching device from the same
> source (that would be Elecraft) makes a lot of practical sense.  During
> tuning, the K3 ATU I also very quiet compared with another transmatch I once
> owned.
>
> 73,
> Gary VE1RGB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad
> Sent: September 13, 2012 3:13 PM
> To: Elecraft List
> Subject: [Elecraft] [KX3] Antenna Tuner Or Not
>
> I am perplexed and bewildered but not yet bothered.  I can't decide on
> whether I should order the internal 20 watt ATU or not.  
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Tim Groat]

I think you'll appreciate the internal tuner for portable operation. For
me, having an internal tuner is a big incentive. Being in the rig's
package, it takes up less packing space and has no extra cables to hook
up. Connect the KX3 to an antenna and paddle or microphone, and it's on
the air.

Speaking of internal accessories, I hope the internal NiMH battery
charger board will come out soon. When that's available, I can recharge
through the truck's cigarette lighter socket instead of bringing along
external chargers (two of them, since each will charge only four cells
at a time).

Enjoy your KX3!

--Tim (KR0U)
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[mzilmer]

Statement on the KXBC3 from Elecraft's Shipping Status page:
KXBC3 Internal NiMH Charger with Real-Time Clock
Begin Shipping Sept. 30th to Oct. 15th

The order page allows for you to order it now.

Matt Zilmer W6NIA


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tim Groat
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 3:50 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] Antenna Tuner Or Not

I think you'll appreciate the internal tuner for portable operation. For me, having an internal tuner is a big incentive. Being in the rig's package, it takes up less packing space and has no extra cables to hook up. Connect the KX3 to an antenna and paddle or microphone, and it's on the air.

Speaking of internal accessories, I hope the internal NiMH battery charger board will come out soon. When that's available, I can recharge through the truck's cigarette lighter socket instead of bringing along external chargers (two of them, since each will charge only four cells at a time).

Enjoy your KX3!

--Tim (KR0U)
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Ignacy]

The advantage of internal ATU is convenience, just press a button and the tuner works. Also no extra battery and no cable.

The tuning range of of my KX3 ATU is good but not great. It matches OK (with exceptions) antennas when their total length is close to half wave or more, but not shorter. For example, a dipole of 40ft would not be matched on 40m. Almost a deal breaker for me in portable work.  But my ATU may be broken or toroids in KX3 ATU may have lower loss than in other tuners; in some tuners with lossy toroids one can obtain a match without any antenna connected.  Also,  the tuning range may be deliberately restricted to avoid lossy matches where ATU may self destruct.

With external ATU you can have an easy and low-loss balun by wrapping a jumper (say of RG174) around a toroid a few times.

I would buy an internal ATU if size and speed of setup are important issues.  

Ignacy, NO9E