KX3 Batttery life question...

[Mike Morrow-3]

None of the arguments below will change anyone's outlook, but...

Wayne wrote:

> The battery is very important; it makes the KX3 an all-in-one unit  
> that you can quickly deploy in an emergency, ...

In the 45 years I've been around ham radio, the probability that any HF
ham rig would be used in an emergency has been vanishingly small, with
the highest probabilities having been 45 years ago, not today.  VHF or UHF
FM use in an emergency is far more likely (but still even that's a very
small probability).  A module for two-meter FM in place of the battery
would be a far better use of limited space, if an emergency-use argument
is to have any credence.

An emergency HF radio would, in any event, need to be resistent to harm
from adverse environmental conditions *while in operation*.  I don't
think the KX3 will meet that minimally, at least as I've seen it at
Dayton and Huntsville.

An emergency HF radio should also *not* be a QRP rig...at least no rig
*designated* as an emergency radio.  

An emergency HF radio should also have sufficient battery capacity for
more than just a few hours of intermittent operation.

> ... take on a short hike, ...

On a *short* hike, carrying a 4 AH battery which prudence mandates won't be
much of an impediment.  I've done that many times, even when I used SWL's
small DSW-20, -30, and -40 units.

On a long hike and overnight stay, a 4 AH battery will be mandatory, unless
one enjoys the dead weight of the KX3 and antenna after the internal batteries
are depleted.

> ... toss into a very small small corner of your suitcase, etc. ...

If the worry is the requirements for airline transport and TSA vs. a SLA
battery, then an *external* 10-AA cell battery pack serves well.  At least
in my experience it has after I removed the KBT1 from my K1.

> ... It's an inherent part of the product.

It won't be at KK5F.  Because the most important issue follows next:

What sort of chemical barrier will exist between the battery and the internals
of the KX3 to prevent damage in the event of outgassing or leakage of chemical
contaminants from the battery?  

If there won't be an impermeable compartment, that alone says "Better keep the
chemistry outside the radio!"

IMHO, of course.

But...I'm looking forward to the KX3.  It's the most exciting product I've seen
in *all* my years in ham radio.  My comments are not meant as an attempt to trigger
*any* design change from whatever is now planned.  At some point, an excellent
product has to have its design frozen, regardless of continuing clamor from the
unwashed. :-)

Mike / KK5F


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[wayne burdick]

To each his own, but....

Mike Morrow wrote:

> In the 45 years I've been around ham radio, the probability that any  
> HF
> ham rig would be used in an emergency has been vanishingly small, with
> the highest probabilities having been 45 years ago, not today....

A few years ago a ham in Oregon broke his leg hiking. He used a KX1 to  
call rescuers. I'm not kidding.

VHF/UHF doesn't work at all in many mountainous areas, at least if  
you're down in a hole between peaks. For that matter, there are wide  
stretches of the West with no repeaters. NVIS on 40 m with a wire-in-a-
tree or a backpacking dipole will often do the job with just a few  
watts.

The clincher is that the end of the world is coming (!). I heard this  
on a shortwave station, thanks to the KX3's general coverage receive.


> An emergency HF radio would, in any event, need to be resistent to  
> harm
> from adverse environmental conditions *while in operation*.

Around here the most likely emergency that would cut off  
communications is an earthquake. Small radios stored in bags are  
likely to survive and be quite useful. It's buildings that suffer.


> An emergency HF radio should also *not* be a QRP rig...at least no rig
> *designated* as an emergency radio.

I routinely check into a 40-m net and get good reports during the  
daytime with a short antenna 15' off the ground and 5 watts. HFpackers  
often running 10 W or less check into daily nets on 17 m and 20 m and  
work stations thousands of miles away. If there's a will, there's a  
way, and QRP will often get through. Even when it doesn't, it's fun  
trying.


> An emergency HF radio should also have sufficient battery capacity for
> more than just a few hours of intermittent operation.

Depends on what you mean by "intermittent." If my KX3 gives me 10  
hours of casual operation at 3 watts from a 2500-mAhr battery, surely  
I could maintain useful communications during an emergency by being  
even more judicious with my transmit time.

That said, a small, collapsable solar panel would be an excellent  
addition to the station. It can power the KX3's internal battery  
charger.


> On a *short* hike, carrying a 4 AH battery which prudence mandates  
> won't be
> much of an impediment.  I've done that many times, even when I used  
> SWL's
> small DSW-20, -30, and -40 units.

I travel *really* light. On day hikes my entire station weighs about  
1.5 to 2 lbs, allowing me to carry two cans of beer rather than one.


> On a long hike and overnight stay, a 4 AH battery will be mandatory,  
> unless
> one enjoys the dead weight of the KX3 and antenna after the internal  
> batteries
> are depleted.

5-10 hours of operation from a charged 2500 mA internal battery is  
sufficient for all but the most boring business trips or hikes. I'm  
usually hiking (or businessing) a lot more than hamming.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


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[Gary Gregory]

I just want an Elecraft KXM-3 .......HF/2/70 Mobile rig.10/100W

Grin...

Gary

On 27 August 2011 15:13, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> To each his own, but....
>
> Mike Morrow wrote:
>
> > In the 45 years I've been around ham radio, the probability that any
> > HF
> > ham rig would be used in an emergency has been vanishingly small, with
> > the highest probabilities having been 45 years ago, not today....
>
> A few years ago a ham in Oregon broke his leg hiking. He used a KX1 to
> call rescuers. I'm not kidding.
>
> VHF/UHF doesn't work at all in many mountainous areas, at least if
> you're down in a hole between peaks. For that matter, there are wide
> stretches of the West with no repeaters. NVIS on 40 m with a wire-in-a-
> tree or a backpacking dipole will often do the job with just a few
> watts.
>
> The clincher is that the end of the world is coming (!). I heard this
> on a shortwave station, thanks to the KX3's general coverage receive.
>
>
> > An emergency HF radio would, in any event, need to be resistent to
> > harm
> > from adverse environmental conditions *while in operation*.
>
> Around here the most likely emergency that would cut off
> communications is an earthquake. Small radios stored in bags are
> likely to survive and be quite useful. It's buildings that suffer.
>
>
> > An emergency HF radio should also *not* be a QRP rig...at least no rig
> > *designated* as an emergency radio.
>
> I routinely check into a 40-m net and get good reports during the
> daytime with a short antenna 15' off the ground and 5 watts. HFpackers
> often running 10 W or less check into daily nets on 17 m and 20 m and
> work stations thousands of miles away. If there's a will, there's a
> way, and QRP will often get through. Even when it doesn't, it's fun
> trying.
>
>
> > An emergency HF radio should also have sufficient battery capacity for
> > more than just a few hours of intermittent operation.
>
> Depends on what you mean by "intermittent." If my KX3 gives me 10
> hours of casual operation at 3 watts from a 2500-mAhr battery, surely
> I could maintain useful communications during an emergency by being
> even more judicious with my transmit time.
>
> That said, a small, collapsable solar panel would be an excellent
> addition to the station. It can power the KX3's internal battery
> charger.
>
>
> > On a *short* hike, carrying a 4 AH battery which prudence mandates
> > won't be
> > much of an impediment.  I've done that many times, even when I used
> > SWL's
> > small DSW-20, -30, and -40 units.
>
> I travel *really* light. On day hikes my entire station weighs about
> 1.5 to 2 lbs, allowing me to carry two cans of beer rather than one.
>
>
> > On a long hike and overnight stay, a 4 AH battery will be mandatory,
> > unless
> > one enjoys the dead weight of the KX3 and antenna after the internal
> > batteries
> > are depleted.
>
> 5-10 hours of operation from a charged 2500 mA internal battery is
> sufficient for all but the most boring business trips or hikes. I'm
> usually hiking (or businessing) a lot more than hamming.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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--

VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
Elecraft Equipment
K3 #679, KPA-500 #018
Living the dream!!!
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[M0XDF]

I can't argue with the reasoning from either side of the camp here - if I was in the US, but I'm not...

I'm in the UK, 30m west of London in the M4 (that’s highway/freeway, think 101) corridor with suburbia all around, houses in the 'country' as close or closer than those in a NY suburb and VHF/UHF is likely to be of more use in an emergency. If I plan to go portable on some trail, that's a good 45 mins to the nearest quiet spot, I'd be planning that and taking something like an 4Ah gel cell and a tent. If I want to hike up a mountain, that's 2 to 3 hrs to something 'not small' and 5 hrs to something equivalent to one of your local small mountain ranges (we don't do 'big' here).

I still like the idea of the KX3, I can see uses for it here in both HF and VHF, but in my own mind I was thinking 'great 2M rig with fantastic frontend', to drive a 100W PA for our 2M contests at my alternative QTH - with mains power and a permanent mast. A lot less messing about than disconnecting the K3, XV144 etc and putting it in the car to go the 2 miles to that location (a Scout HQ on higher ground where we have erected a small mast and 2m beam).

I can see running SOTA with it as HF and then, yes;, light, minimal kit, ATU etc. would be great, but I don't do SOTA and as I say, for anything worth the climb, it's a good 4 to 5 hrs away.

If I want HF, I'll want an ATU as well, so I'll have to remove the 2M - I don't think the intention is to plug and play with these on a regular basis.

So to me, although very useful, an internal battery is not an inherent part of the rig, but a good 2m module will be. Guess I may end up buying 2!

As Wayne says, each to his own...

73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108, KX3 #???
--
The trees that are slow to grow bear the best fruit.
-Moliere, actor and playwright (1622-1673)

On 27 Aug 2011, at 06:13, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> To each his own, but....
>
> Mike Morrow wrote:
>
>> In the 45 years I've been around ham radio, the probability that any  
>> HF
>> ham rig would be used in an emergency has been vanishingly small, with
>> the highest probabilities having been 45 years ago, not today....
>
> A few years ago a ham in Oregon broke his leg hiking. He used a KX1 to  
> call rescuers. I'm not kidding.
>

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[ARRL - N6MQL]

I believe that there was a miss communication here.  When people were
were suggesting that the internal battery area in the KX3 be used for a
full power 2 meter transmitter, they weren't just asking that that the
battery compartment be permanently removed.  I believe what some were
asking for, was the ability to remove the battery pack and then have
access to an additional 'hook' that would ALSO provided the ability to
attach a full power 2 meter module. This could allow for both types of
operations.
For those that do want the internal battery, they could use the standard
'hook' for the 2m module, and remove the ATU from it's intended
location, thereby allowing the battery to be installed..
Of course this means a duplicate flex cable that terminates to a 'hook'
board where it could sit in the unused battery compartment (and be
removed with some ease).. This of course also means that Elecraft has
one more option 'board/bracket' to sell you...

Another thing I would like to see, and this goes for the K3 as well, is
the ability to turn off the Backlight, AND be able to turn off the LED's
as well.  The LEDs need only to be on for Delta mode (split) etc, and
don't need to be seen at all times. For those that do want them on all
the time, it would still be nice if we were able to dim them down to the
lowest setting (as they do when the backlight is on)
In my opinion this would help save energy and LEDs when someone is using
their rig portable, or in a 'remote' setup, and wants to leave it on
24/7 as I do when I travel.  I would rather not have the LEDs burning
needlessly if I'm not there to see them. Especially since their going at
full brightness in the 'day' mode.

Just my 2 cents,

Michael
N6MQL

On 8/27/2011 9:00 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> e: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question...
>    

--
Michael Aretsky
N6MQL

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