KX3 - CW glitch with KXPD3/keyer?

[Steve KC8QVO]

I have been running all CW so far with my KX3 and have noticed there is a delay a lot of times on dits. When calling CQ there is a hesitation when sending my call between the dits in the V (KC8QVO) that makes it sound like KC8QE UO or KC8QI AO. The first few times it happened I thought I just wasn't used to the key, but it happens too much to be the key. My speed is set to 18wpm in iambic B mode.

Has anyone else noticed a similar characteristic? Or am I just crazy? Are there any tricks to a "fix"?

Another potential glitch is with the memory keyer. I normally send my code farnsworth method and space out my letters. When I do that on the memory keyer recording it blends everything together so all the spacing between letters is the same as between words. I haven't tried sending with normal letter spacing to see if it holds that and expands the word spacing, but every time I've tried to record how I want to send it comes back with my call blended together with the same space between the 3 call signs as the individual letters.

Steve, KC8QVO

[stan levandowski]

Steve, I had a problem that sounded a lot like yours - At Elecraft's
suggestion, I sprayed my KXPD3 with De-oxit and the problem with
"missing" initial dits totally disappeared.  I did not hae to
disassemble anything -- I just aimed and shot.

A few days later, I noticed that there was *still* an occasional
("random") delay (whether beginning with a dit or a dah) at the
beginning of a transmission.  I was operating at those times through a
remote SGC autocoupler but had failed to "BYPASS" the internal KX3 ATU.
Wayne suggested that my ATU was "touching up" the match automatically;
trying to match my autocoupler.  I went into the menu and bypassed the
ATU - problem solved.

There has been no reccurence of either of these issues since then.

  73, Stan WB2LQF
www.wb2lqf.com
K1#2994    K2# 6980    K3#5244    KX1 #2411     KX3#0325     K9#1 (Cocoa
the Chihuahua)



On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 11:48 PM, Steve KC8QVO wrote:

> I have been running all CW so far with my KX3 and have noticed there
> is a
> delay a lot of times on dits. When calling CQ there is a hesitation
> when
> sending my call between the dits in the V (KC8QVO) that makes it sound
> like
> KC8QE UO or KC8QI AO. The first few times it happened I thought I just
> wasn't used to the key, but it happens too much to be the key. My
> speed is
> set to 18wpm in iambic B mode.

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[Steve KC8QVO]

Thanks for the info, Stan. The antenna I was using all day yesterday was a Buddistick on 17 meters. I bypassed the tuner and had the SWR down to about 1.2-1.4:1. There was some fluctuation in the SWR outside of that, so I re-tuned the antenna a few times. The SWR changing was mostly from the lay of the counterpoise, but the feedpoint was set about 4" down in a bush (my "support" HI) so that affected it a little as well.

Since the tuner was bypassed it wasn't trying to re-tune anything, but that doesn't mean the SWR was always "good" - I re-tuned the antenna a few times because of that.

I will try cleaning the contacts and see where that gets me. I don't have any De-oxit but can get some in the next few days. I'll try the old paper abrasive method (someone once showed me that for cleaning my Vibroplex contacts - I use it for all my keys now).

Steve, KC8QVO

[stan levandowski]

I don't know about that paper abrasive thing, Steve -- if it were me I
might check with Elecraft first. 73 ,Stan.

On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 10:50 AM, Steve KC8QVO wrote:

>
> I will try cleaning the contacts and see where that gets me. I don't
> have
> any De-oxit but can get some in the next few days. I'll try the old
> paper
> abrasive method (someone once showed me that for cleaning my Vibroplex
> contacts - I use it for all my keys now).
> Steve, KC8QVO
>
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[stan levandowski]

Guess I misunderstood -- I thought "paper abrasive" and "abrasive paper"
were interchangeable terms -- I imagined a fine abrasive of some sort
that might compromise the contacts' integrity and cause future keying
problems.  Thanks, stan WB2LQF

On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Ray Sills wrote:

> Hi Stan;
>
> That's an old trick for cleaning open frame relay contacts.... use
> some paper.. newspaper is fine, where there is no ink.   The paper has
> just enough abrasive quality to it to wipe off any oxide or dirt on
> the contacts, but it's not so rough that it will remove the metal of
> the contact itself.  That was a second best technique, if you did not
> have a contact burnishing tool.
>
> 73 de Ray
> K2ULR
>
> On Jul 22, 2012, at 11:24 AM, stan levandowski wrote:
>
>> I don't know about that paper abrasive thing, Steve -- if it were me
>> I
>> might check with Elecraft first. 73 ,Stan.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 10:50 AM, Steve KC8QVO wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I will try cleaning the contacts and see where that gets me. I don't
>>> have
>>> any De-oxit but can get some in the next few days. I'll try the old
>>> paper
>>> abrasive method (someone once showed me that for cleaning my
>>> Vibroplex
>>> contacts - I use it for all my keys now).
>>> Steve, KC8QVO
>>>

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[Steve KC8QVO]

Yeah, I should have been a bit more descriptive. The method I was taught is to clamp a small piece of regular paper (notebook paper, printer paper, etc) between the contacts and pull on it. If you clamp too tight on the paper it will tear, but at just the right pressure you can pull the paper through and see the discoloration as the oxidation and any other build-up on the contacts wipes off.

I have heard a pencil eraser can have similar results.

Steve, KC8QVO

[stan levandowski]

I just tried it with computer paper and I captured some crud from my
Navy Flameproof. And there was no oily mess to clean up either.  Maybe
you ought to send this one to QST Hints and Kinks.  I've been a CW ham
for over 50 years and never heard this one - or - somebody told me and I
was out to lunch.  Before discovering De-Oxit,  I would periodically buy
contact cleaner strips from various suppliers over the years.  In fact
just a couple years ago, Vibroplex even began to sell these strips.  Now
I can save some money to put toward another key ;) 73, Stan WB2LQF


On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Steve KC8QVO wrote:

> Yeah, I should have been a bit more descriptive. The method I was
> taught is
> to clamp a small piece of regular paper (notebook paper, printer
> paper, etc)
> between the contacts and pull on it. If you clamp too tight on the
> paper it
> will tear, but at just the right pressure you can pull the paper
> through and
> see the discoloration as the oxidation and any other build-up on the
> contacts wipes off.
> I have heard a pencil eraser can have similar results.
> Steve, KC8QVO

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[Don Butler]

Steve, I’ve had KXPD3 issues similar to those that you describe since I
got my KX3 2 ½ months ago.  Right out of the box I couldn’t seem to
adjust the paddles as tightly as I normally prefer.  The adjustment
screws have rather coarse threads and it seems like there’s only about a
quarter of a turn range between “too tight” and “too loose”, and when I
first adjusted it the way I normally use paddles I would randomly get
spontaneous contact which resulted in unwanted transmissions.  I finally
accepted the fact that I’d have to settle for a more course adjustment
and have now become accumstomed to that.  At least that stopped the
spontaneous dits.

I’ve also experienced random dropped dits, or sometimes a delayed
response to trying to send a dit, which actually causes various sending
errors depending upon the character I’m trying to send.  You know, with
iambic keying if I’m trying to interject a single dit between dahs and
that dit fails, the result is a continuous string of dahs, etc., etc.
I usually send at 25 -30 wpm.  I’ve never had a great fist, but some of
my recent sending with the KXPD3 has been downright embarrassing. So
I’ve been doing a lot of apologizing and repeating during qsos.

I discussed this with Wayne a few weeks ago and he suggested that I try
cleaning the contacts.  I took a close look under magnification and did
find that there was a small ding on one of the brass contact cylinders
right at the point where the screw tip makes contact (and it was the one
on the “dit” side where all of my problems have occurred).  I
disassembled the KXPD3, and rotated the brass cylinder to get the dinged
area away from the contact point.  I also cleaned the contact areas with
de-oxit as recommended by Wayne.

The cleaning and adjustment seemed to solve the dropped “dit” problem
(and I really think it was caused by the little "ding" rather than
surface oxidation), but I continue to occasionally experience the
delayed response thing.   That is I hit the dit side of the paddle and
there is a 1/3 or ½ second delay before it comes through.   That, of
course, breaks up my sending rhythm and results in more gibberish coming
from my fist.

I bought the KX3 for portable operation and certainly don’t expect the
KXPD3 to be anything like my Begali Magnetic Signature (which I believe
would be an unreasonable expectation).  As far as I'm concerned, the
advantage of having the KXPD3 attached to the transceiver more than
offsets the minor glitches I'm talking about, and I can live with them.
But I would be a much happier camper if I could get to the bottom of
this delayed response problem.

Don, N5LZ  

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve KC8QVO
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 9:49 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 - CW glitch with KXPD3/keyer?


I have been running all CW so far with my KX3 and have noticed there is
a delay a lot of times on dits. When calling CQ there is a hesitation
when sending my call between the dits in the V (KC8QVO) that makes it
sound like KC8QE UO or KC8QI AO. The first few times it happened I
thought I just wasn't used to the key, but it happens too much to be the
key. My speed is set to 18wpm in iambic B mode.

Has anyone else noticed a similar characteristic? Or am I just crazy?
Are there any tricks to a "fix"?

Another potential glitch is with the memory keyer. I normally send my
code farnsworth method and space out my letters. When I do that on the
memory keyer recording it blends everything together so all the spacing
between letters is the same as between words. I haven't tried sending
with normal letter spacing to see if it holds that and expands the word
spacing, but every time I've tried to record how I want to send it comes
back with my call blended together with the same space between the 3
call signs as the individual letters.

Steve, KC8QVO



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[wayne burdick]

> I discussed this with Wayne a few weeks ago and he suggested that I  
> try
> cleaning the contacts.

Steve,

Another KXPD3 user recently pointed out something I hadn't considered.  
Some other keyer manufacturers who use cup-point set screws as  
contacts flatten (or round off) the screw ends using a fine file. This  
broadens the contact area, which can otherwise be very sharp with a  
cut point. I'm looking into whether we should be doing this in  
production.

Please let me know if you try this on your KXPD3.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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[Thomas Horsten]

Wayne,

When you sent out the field test firmware I reported back to you an issue
that seems very similar to this - although at the time I was certain it was
a firmware issue. But looking at it now, it could well be this issue I was
having as well, and it was just random that it hadn't shown up before I
loaded that new firmware. After that first incident where it was very bad,
I didn't have it come back at that strength. but I've seen a few
missed/delayed dits and dahs with the KXPD3. So quite possibly it's this.

Would you recommend filing off/rounding the ends of the set screws? Or take
them out and clean them with deoxit, or both?

73, Thomas M0TRN

On 23 July 2012 18:28, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > I discussed this with Wayne a few weeks ago and he suggested that I
> > try
> > cleaning the contacts.
>
> Steve,
>
> Another KXPD3 user recently pointed out something I hadn't considered.
> Some other keyer manufacturers who use cup-point set screws as
> contacts flatten (or round off) the screw ends using a fine file. This
> broadens the contact area, which can otherwise be very sharp with a
> cut point. I'm looking into whether we should be doing this in
> production.
>
> Please let me know if you try this on your KXPD3.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

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[wayne burdick]

Thomas Horsten wrote:

> When you sent out the field test firmware I reported back to you an  
> issue that seems very similar to this - although at the time I was  
> certain it was a firmware issue. But looking at it now, it could  
> well be this issue I was having as well, and it was just random that  
> it hadn't shown up before I loaded that new firmware. After that  
> first incident where it was very bad, I didn't have it come back at  
> that strength. but I've seen a few missed/delayed dits and dahs with  
> the KXPD3. So quite possibly it's this.
>
> Would you recommend filing off/rounding the ends of the set screws?  
> Or take them out and clean them with deoxit, or both?

I think I'd try the rounding. Haven't had a chance myself, but I also  
haven't had any missed elements come up.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


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[Steve KC8QVO]

wayne burdick wrote

Steve,

Another KXPD3 user recently pointed out something I hadn't considered.  
Some other keyer manufacturers who use cup-point set screws as  
contacts flatten (or round off) the screw ends using a fine file. This  
broadens the contact area, which can otherwise be very sharp with a  
cut point. I'm looking into whether we should be doing this in  
production.

Please let me know if you try this on your KXPD3.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

Wayne,

I took your suggestion. I put a bit of a tweak to it, however. I noticed the set screws have a divot in them on the end that makes the contact. I took this back to flat across the whole set screw on a bench grinder (fine stone). Then I "rounded" them a bit on the same grinder/stone. After that I took my knife sharpening stones to the screws. I started at 120 grit and worked all the way through 6000 grit polish tape. The screws have a rounded near-mirror finish now.

I don't have much key time with it just yet, but in the little I have used it just now it does quite noticeably improve the action. I spent a little more time tweaking the contact pressure/gap too. I had to play with it a little but I think its just about right.

I will post back after a while and fill you in as to my experiences.

Steve, KC8QVO

[Matt Zilmer]

Never had the cited problem.  I've reset the spacing to the way I like
it (twice) and no worries with contacts here.  "Twice" just means I
was wrong the first time.

This may vary assembly to assembly.

73,
matt

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 10:28:50 -0700, you wrote:

>> I discussed this with Wayne a few weeks ago and he suggested that I  
>> try
>> cleaning the contacts.
>
>Steve,
>
>Another KXPD3 user recently pointed out something I hadn't considered.  
>Some other keyer manufacturers who use cup-point set screws as  
>contacts flatten (or round off) the screw ends using a fine file. This  
>broadens the contact area, which can otherwise be very sharp with a  
>cut point. I'm looking into whether we should be doing this in  
>production.
>
>Please let me know if you try this on your KXPD3.
>
>73,
>Wayne
>N6KR
>
>______________________________________________________________
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[Steve KC8QVO]

I gave the KX3 an hour or so run on 40 meters and didn't have the original issue I was having with the delayed dits. So far so good.

On a side note, I was running 1 watt. Lots of FUN! I didn't call CQ saying I was QRP, I just threw my call out there. One signal report came back 579 in amongst some QSB. Then I told the guy I was running 1 watt HIHI. He was at 5 watts, QRO compared to me.

I might get my first trail test of the rig this weekend. Im either going out for an 8-10 mile trip or closer to 15-16 miles, if all works out, Saturday/Sunday. Maybe the shorter route as I haven't hiked since last Fall, we'll see.

Steve, KC8QVO