[KX3] KX3 update FT

[Bill K9YEQ]

I posted this on the Yahoo reflector for the KX3.  Will share here as well.

I do not generally use Software to run my Elecraft radios other than the macros.  I work on PCs/software for a living, so I love the options available with all the Elecraft radios.  Like Greg, I have mine sitting just above the pullout keyboard/Mouse tray in front of the K3.  I have a easy to reach antenna switch.  I have listened to audio coming from both units without any signal conditioning, filters, NB, NR, etc.  Hard to tell the two apart on the PC stereo speakers.  That is very sweet.  
 
Now in the living room where I have another feed line to the station antenna switches, I sit with the KX3 on my sofa arm chair.  I have the key plugged in.  I also have a ZN QRP paddle plugged in, as it is my favorite.  However the Elecraft plug is the easiest since I don’t have to drag around the cables.  My remoted tuner doesn’t like to tune as it takes a minimum of 10 watts to initiate.  So I pretty much have to tune using the K3 and then switch an antenna over.  I will be changing that set up so I can tune the shortened 160 – 10 dipole or 350’ loop without the remote tuner.
 
I have been using Lithium AA sized throw-aways for now.  I have tried the rechargeables, but the life is rather short.  Wayne is adjusting this parameter to get more life out.  The clock/Charger is in progress and I am anxiously waiting to get that installed.  I like the portability, brings a whole new life to this hobby.  
 
Patience… I demonstrated a tremendous amount of that as a tester for the K2.  When it first came out, it was CW only!  It took a while for the tuner, SSB, DSP, etc., all to be designed and released.  As I recall I tested most of those as well.  The KX1 came with only the basic unit.  I tested on that one as well.
 
I know you will be happy once released, as the fit and finish will be what you expect.  The hardware will be excellent.  The tuner is incredible… I don’t know how Wayne and company do it (I have loaded a bunch of stuff without issue other than 160, of course efficiency stinks for some of the stuff I have tried).  My favorite will be the ATX Walkabout, Wayne uses the MFJ version, and using the banana plug to BNC connector that I used on the KX1.  
 
We are looking forward to the next firmware release to get rid of some kinks.  Will keep you posted….  Back to work!  ☺
 
73,
Bill
K9YEQ
KX3 Field Test #12
 
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of TJ Campie
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:55 AM
To: Greg
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [KX3] Patience in not a virtue
 
 
Oh duh, missread the original post.  Thought you were saying you had ANOTHER piece of hardware for a tuning pod.  Yes, the KX3 kind of can act like that with the SDR nature of things... Very cool!  Have you been using it with PowerSDR/IF or something?  We have not seen that use case from any of the field testers yet.

TJ W0EA
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Greg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Something akin to the TenTec remote 302 with some function buttons and an encoder for tuning the radio.  The KX3 is a complete tuning pod as you can set it right next to your keyboard and you have the controls right there.

73


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[Igor Sokolov-2]

----- Original Message -----
>From: Bill K9YEQ
>I do not generally use Software to run my Elecraft radios other than the
>macros.  I work on >PCs/software for a living, so I love the options
>available with all the Elecraft radios.  Like Greg, I >have mine sitting
>just above the pullout keyboard/Mouse tray in front of the K3.  I have a
>easy to >reach antenna switch.  I have listened to audio coming from both
>units without any signal >conditioning, filters, NB, NR, etc.  Hard to tell
>the two apart on the PC stereo speakers.  That is >very sweet.

Well, I was expecting audio from KX3 sound better then that of K3. Being SDR
KX3 should not have all those in band IMD that are the result of crystal
filter  non linearity. When I compare audio of my K3 with that of QS1R the
difference is pretty well detectable.


73, Igor UA9CDC


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[Igor Sokolov-2]

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill K9YEQ
>I do not generally use Software to run my Elecraft radios other than the
>macros.  I work on >PCs/software for a living, so I love the options
>available with all the Elecraft radios.  Like Greg, I >have mine sitting
>just above the pullout keyboard/Mouse tray in front of the K3.  I have a
>easy to >reach antenna switch.  I have listened to audio coming from both
>units without any signal >conditioning, filters, NB, NR, etc.  Hard to tell
>the two apart on the PC stereo speakers.  That is >very sweet.

That is not quite what I was expecting. KX3 being SDR based should sound
better then K3 because KX3 should lack in band IMD caused by non linearity
of crystal filter. When I compare audio of my K3 with that of QS1R the
difference is pretty noticeable. Well, sooner or later someone will measure
in band IMD of KX3 and hopefully we will get objective data.

73, Igor UA9CDC

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[Bill K9YEQ]

Igor,

My hearing isn't perfect.  Just ask my wife.  I am using PC speakers, not
headphones.  My environment has fan noise... but to me they sound very
similar, next to identical.  I did not observe on a scope.  YMMV.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ
KX3 Field Test #12
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Igor Sokolov
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 1:49 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: 'Elecraft'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] KX3 update FT


----- Original Message -----
From: Bill K9YEQ
>I do not generally use Software to run my Elecraft radios other than
>the macros.  I work on >PCs/software for a living, so I love the
>options available with all the Elecraft radios.  Like Greg, I >have
>mine sitting just above the pullout keyboard/Mouse tray in front of the
>K3.  I have a easy to >reach antenna switch.  I have listened to audio
>coming from both units without any signal >conditioning, filters, NB,
>NR, etc.  Hard to tell the two apart on the PC stereo speakers.  That is
>very sweet.

That is not quite what I was expecting. KX3 being SDR based should sound
better then K3 because KX3 should lack in band IMD caused by non linearity
of crystal filter. When I compare audio of my K3 with that of QS1R the
difference is pretty noticeable. Well, sooner or later someone will measure
in band IMD of KX3 and hopefully we will get objective data.

73, Igor UA9CDC

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[Igor Sokolov-2]

Bill,
I did not mean to put any blame on you. In fact I am very grateful to you for sharing with us your first hand impressions of this so much awaited radio.  I am just genuinely interested if KX3 audio is the same or better then that of K3. I hope, when KX3 is in production, Elecraft or some of the users will measure in band IMD and come up with the figures. And I hope those figures will exceed similar specs of K3.

73, Igor UA9CDC

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Bill K9YEQ
  To: [hidden email]
  Cc: 'Elecraft'
  Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 2:00 AM
  Subject: RE: [Elecraft] [KX3] KX3 update FT


   
  Igor,

  My hearing isn't perfect. Just ask my wife. I am using PC speakers, not
  headphones. My environment has fan noise... but to me they sound very
  similar, next to identical. I did not observe on a scope. YMMV.

  73,
  Bill
  K9YEQ
  KX3 Field Test #12
  -----Original Message-----
  From: [hidden email]
  [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Igor Sokolov
  Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 1:49 PM
  To: [hidden email]
  Cc: 'Elecraft'
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] KX3 update FT

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Bill K9YEQ
  >I do not generally use Software to run my Elecraft radios other than
  >the macros. I work on >PCs/software for a living, so I love the
  >options available with all the Elecraft radios. Like Greg, I >have
  >mine sitting just above the pullout keyboard/Mouse tray in front of the
  >K3. I have a easy to >reach antenna switch. I have listened to audio
  >coming from both units without any signal >conditioning, filters, NB,
  >NR, etc. Hard to tell the two apart on the PC stereo speakers. That is
  >very sweet.

  That is not quite what I was expecting. KX3 being SDR based should sound
  better then K3 because KX3 should lack in band IMD caused by non linearity
  of crystal filter. When I compare audio of my K3 with that of QS1R the
  difference is pretty noticeable. Well, sooner or later someone will measure
  in band IMD of KX3 and hopefully we will get objective data.

  73, Igor UA9CDC

  __________________________________________________________
  Elecraft mailing list
  Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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[Niel Skousen-2]

I would actually expect them to be very similar since the DSP backend (while not identical) should be very similar.   The SDR elements of the two are probably very close to the same.

Wayne has shown a talent over the years of applying software object encapsulation and  reuse concepts in hardware design.   DSP and SDR just sort beg for that to be applied in the K3 - KX3 design evolution.    I'd also expect some lessens learned and improvements from the KX3 to migrate back into the K3 within the next 4-6 months too...

Niel

On Feb 23, 2012, at 1:15 PM, Igor Sokolov wrote:

>
> Bill,
> I did not mean to put any blame on you. In fact I am very grateful to you for sharing with us your first hand impressions of this so much awaited radio.  I am just genuinely interested if KX3 audio is the same or better then that of K3. I hope, when KX3 is in production, Elecraft or some of the users will measure in band IMD and come up with the figures. And I hope those figures will exceed similar specs of K3.
>  
> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>  
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill K9YEQ
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: 'Elecraft'
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 2:00 AM
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] [KX3] KX3 update FT
>
>  
> Igor,
>
> My hearing isn't perfect. Just ask my wife. I am using PC speakers, not
> headphones. My environment has fan noise... but to me they sound very
> similar, next to identical. I did not observe on a scope. YMMV.
>
> 73,
> Bill
> K9YEQ
> KX3 Field Test #12
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Igor Sokolov
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 1:49 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: 'Elecraft'
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] KX3 update FT
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill K9YEQ
> >I do not generally use Software to run my Elecraft radios other than
> >the macros. I work on >PCs/software for a living, so I love the
> >options available with all the Elecraft radios. Like Greg, I >have
> >mine sitting just above the pullout keyboard/Mouse tray in front of the
> >K3. I have a easy to >reach antenna switch. I have listened to audio
> >coming from both units without any signal >conditioning, filters, NB,
> >NR, etc. Hard to tell the two apart on the PC stereo speakers. That is
> >very sweet.
>
> That is not quite what I was expecting. KX3 being SDR based should sound
> better then K3 because KX3 should lack in band IMD caused by non linearity
> of crystal filter. When I compare audio of my K3 with that of QS1R the
> difference is pretty noticeable. Well, sooner or later someone will measure
> in band IMD of KX3 and hopefully we will get objective data.
>
> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>
>
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[Alan Bloom]

Superhet versus direct-to-baseband:

In-band IMD is one issue.  Perhaps an even more important one is the
non-linear group delay caused by the crystal filters.  Unlike other
SDRs, the KX3 does have a roofing filter at baseband but I expect it
should have flatter group delay than a crystal filter.

For CW it wouldn't make any difference but I would expect SSB and AM to
sound better on the KX3.  (Spoken in ignorance since I don't have one.)

Alan


On Thu, 2012-02-23 at 13:57 -0700, Niel Skousen wrote:

> I would actually expect them to be very similar since the DSP backend
> (while not identical) should be very similar.   The SDR elements of
> the two are probably very close to the same.
>
> Wayne has shown a talent over the years of applying software object
> encapsulation and  reuse concepts in hardware design.   DSP and SDR
> just sort beg for that to be applied in the K3 - KX3 design evolution.
> I'd also expect some lessens learned and improvements from the KX3 to
> migrate back into the K3 within the next 4-6 months too...
>
> Niel
>
> On Feb 23, 2012, at 1:15 PM, Igor Sokolov wrote:
>
> >
> > Bill,
> > I did not mean to put any blame on you. In fact I am very grateful to you for sharing with us your first hand impressions of this so much awaited radio.  I am just genuinely interested if KX3 audio is the same or better then that of K3. I hope, when KX3 is in production, Elecraft or some of the users will measure in band IMD and come up with the figures. And I hope those figures will exceed similar specs of K3.
> >  
> > 73, Igor UA9CDC
> >  
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bill K9YEQ
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Cc: 'Elecraft'
> > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 2:00 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] [KX3] KX3 update FT
> >
> >  
> > Igor,
> >
> > My hearing isn't perfect. Just ask my wife. I am using PC speakers, not
> > headphones. My environment has fan noise... but to me they sound very
> > similar, next to identical. I did not observe on a scope. YMMV.
> >
> > 73,
> > Bill
> > K9YEQ
> > KX3 Field Test #12
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email]
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Igor Sokolov
> > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 1:49 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Cc: 'Elecraft'
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] KX3 update FT
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bill K9YEQ
> > >I do not generally use Software to run my Elecraft radios other than
> > >the macros. I work on >PCs/software for a living, so I love the
> > >options available with all the Elecraft radios. Like Greg, I >have
> > >mine sitting just above the pullout keyboard/Mouse tray in front of the
> > >K3. I have a easy to >reach antenna switch. I have listened to audio
> > >coming from both units without any signal >conditioning, filters, NB,
> > >NR, etc. Hard to tell the two apart on the PC stereo speakers. That is
> > >very sweet.
> >
> > That is not quite what I was expecting. KX3 being SDR based should sound
> > better then K3 because KX3 should lack in band IMD caused by non linearity
> > of crystal filter. When I compare audio of my K3 with that of QS1R the
> > difference is pretty noticeable. Well, sooner or later someone will measure
> > in band IMD of KX3 and hopefully we will get objective data.
> >
> > 73, Igor UA9CDC
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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[Bill K9YEQ]

Igor,

 

No offense taken.  The audio is very good as far as I am concerned.  

 

Then, I hope the KX3 doesn't exceed the K3performance as the cost difference
and electronic construction are very different.  J

 

73,

Bill

K9YEQ

KX3 Field Test #12

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Igor
Sokolov
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 2:16 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: 'Elecraft'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] KX3 update FT

 

 

Bill,

I did not mean to put any blame on you. In fact I am very grateful to you
for sharing with us your first hand impressions of this so much awaited
radio.  I am just genuinely interested if KX3 audio is the same or better
then that of K3. I hope, when KX3 is in production, Elecraft or some of the
users will measure in band IMD and come up with the figures. And I hope
those figures will exceed similar specs of K3.

 

73, Igor UA9CDC

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Bill K9YEQ <mailto:[hidden email]>  

To: [hidden email]

Cc: 'Elecraft' <mailto:[hidden email]>  

Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 2:00 AM

Subject: RE: [Elecraft] [KX3] KX3 update FT

 

 

Igor,

My hearing isn't perfect. Just ask my wife. I am using PC speakers, not
headphones. My environment has fan noise... but to me they sound very
similar, next to identical. I did not observe on a scope. YMMV.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ
KX3 Field Test #12
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Igor Sokolov
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 1:49 PM
To: [hidden email] <mailto:KX3%40yahoogroups.com>
Cc: 'Elecraft'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] KX3 update FT

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill K9YEQ
>I do not generally use Software to run my Elecraft radios other than
>the macros. I work on >PCs/software for a living, so I love the
>options available with all the Elecraft radios. Like Greg, I >have
>mine sitting just above the pullout keyboard/Mouse tray in front of the
>K3. I have a easy to >reach antenna switch. I have listened to audio
>coming from both units without any signal >conditioning, filters, NB,
>NR, etc. Hard to tell the two apart on the PC stereo speakers. That is
>very sweet.

That is not quite what I was expecting. KX3 being SDR based should sound
better then K3 because KX3 should lack in band IMD caused by non linearity
of crystal filter. When I compare audio of my K3 with that of QS1R the
difference is pretty noticeable. Well, sooner or later someone will measure
in band IMD of KX3 and hopefully we will get objective data.

73, Igor UA9CDC

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