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[KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter

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Bill Frantz

[KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter

My wonderful wife said, "Go ahead and order a KX3. Happy
Birthday!", so now I am working on options. How valuable is the
KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter? Should I order it now, or
see if I need it and order it later?

73, Bill, AE6JV

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Bill Frantz |"Web security is like medicine - trying to
do good for
408-356-8506 |an evolved body of kludges" - Mark Miller
www.pwpconsult.com |

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Bill Frantz

Re: [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter

[ccing Eric as list admin.]

I am not receiving mail sent to the list at the moment. The
archive only has my original message (which I also have not
received from the list.

If you sent/send a response only to the list, please also
forward me a copy.

I have received 3 responses, two to the effect that installation
at build time would be easier and calibration would be done by
Elecraft, and one of Carpe Diem -- take it while you can. :-)

73 Bill AE6JV

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Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

So, you told her to go ahead and re-decorate the bathroom (with a new
shower curtain from Wal-Mart) right?

Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Frantz" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 1:11 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter

> My wonderful wife said, "Go ahead and order a KX3. Happy Birthday!", so
> now I am working on options. How valuable is the KXFL3 dual-Passband
> Roofing Filter? Should I order it now, or see if I need it and order it
> later?
>
> 73, Bill, AE6JV
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz |"Web security is like medicine - trying to do good for
> 408-356-8506 |an evolved body of kludges" - Mark Miller
> www.pwpconsult.com |
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Joshua Gould, K8WXA

Re: [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter

I'm following this discussion closely as I'm not sure about ordering the
passband filter when I order my KX3 or not. I think my girlfriend wants me
to because for every dollar I spend, she gets a dollar...I am leaning
toward ordering it because I don't have the equipment to calibrate
everything if I order it later...

Joshua Gould
K8WXA

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Charlie T, K3ICH <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So, you told her to go ahead and re-decorate the bathroom (with a new
> shower curtain from Wal-Mart) right?
>
> Chas
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Frantz" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 1:11 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter
>
>
> My wonderful wife said, "Go ahead and order a KX3. Happy Birthday!", so
>> now I am working on options. How valuable is the KXFL3 dual-Passband
>> Roofing Filter? Should I order it now, or see if I need it and order it
>> later?
>>
>> 73, Bill, AE6JV
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------------
>> Bill Frantz |"Web security is like medicine - trying to do good for
>> 408-356-8506 |an evolved body of kludges" - Mark Miller
>> www.pwpconsult.com |
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

Jerry

Re: [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter

GOOD, SOUND REASONING JOSHUA!

Jerry, W1IE

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joshua
Gould
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 23:56 PM
To: Charlie T, K3ICH
Cc: Elecraft List
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter

I'm following this discussion closely as I'm not sure about ordering the
passband filter when I order my KX3 or not. I think my girlfriend wants me
to because for every dollar I spend, she gets a dollar...I am leaning toward
ordering it because I don't have the equipment to calibrate everything if I
order it later...

Joshua Gould
K8WXA

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Charlie T, K3ICH <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So, you told her to go ahead and re-decorate the bathroom (with a new
> shower curtain from Wal-Mart) right?
>
> Chas
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Frantz"
> <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 1:11 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter
>
>
> My wonderful wife said, "Go ahead and order a KX3. Happy Birthday!",
> so
>> now I am working on options. How valuable is the KXFL3 dual-Passband
>> Roofing Filter? Should I order it now, or see if I need it and order
>> it later?
>>
>> 73, Bill, AE6JV
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------------
>> Bill Frantz |"Web security is like medicine - trying to do good

for

>> 408-356-8506 |an evolved body of kludges" - Mark Miller
>> www.pwpconsult.com |
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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vk2rq

Re: [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter

In reply to this post by Joshua Gould, K8WXA

Calibration is not hard, you just need some sort of signal source. I used a second ham rig connected to a dummy load, loosely coupled to the KX3 with a short length of insulated wire placed nearby. Even if I ordered the radio+filter pre-calibrated in the factory, I'd still go through the RX nulling procedure, since you can do it per band (I think when the KX3 first came out the factory would only calibrate on one band and extrapolate from there, but then they released a new firmware+procedure allowing the user to custom calibrate on each band individually. Not sure what the standard factory calibration procedure is there days).

73,
Matt VK2RQ

> On 3 Jun 2014, at 9:56 am, Joshua Gould <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'm following this discussion closely as I'm not sure about ordering the
> passband filter when I order my KX3 or not. I think my girlfriend wants me
> to because for every dollar I spend, she gets a dollar...I am leaning
> toward ordering it because I don't have the equipment to calibrate
> everything if I order it later...
>
> Joshua Gould
> K8WXA
>
>
>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Charlie T, K3ICH <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> So, you told her to go ahead and re-decorate the bathroom (with a new
>> shower curtain from Wal-Mart) right?
>>
>> Chas
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Frantz" <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 1:11 PM
>> Subject: [Elecraft] [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter
>>
>>
>> My wonderful wife said, "Go ahead and order a KX3. Happy Birthday!", so
>>> now I am working on options. How valuable is the KXFL3 dual-Passband
>>> Roofing Filter? Should I order it now, or see if I need it and order it
>>> later?
>>>
>>> 73, Bill, AE6JV
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---------------
>>> Bill Frantz |"Web security is like medicine - trying to do good for
>>> 408-356-8506 |an evolved body of kludges" - Mark Miller
>>> www.pwpconsult.com |
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter

Joshua,

If you have thoughts of doing the extended calibration, know that is not
done at the factory for either kits or factory assembled units. OTOH, if
you are contemplating the standard calibration, order the filter at the
same time as your KX3 and the two will be calibrated together for you.

If you want (need) the extended calibration (and temperature
compensation), that is something you would have to do yourself, so that
negates the advantage of ordering the two at the same time.
Evaluate that against the 'girl-friend expense exposure' to arrive at a
final decision.

The KX3 will operate just fine in casual operating conditions without
the filter, but if you get into contest or DXing in crowded adjacent
signal band conditions, you will want the filter.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/2/2014 9:00 PM, Matt VK2RQ wrote:
> Calibration is not hard, you just need some sort of signal source. I used a second ham rig connected to a dummy load, loosely coupled to the KX3 with a short length of insulated wire placed nearby. Even if I ordered the radio+filter pre-calibrated in the factory, I'd still go through the RX nulling procedure, since you can do it per band (I think when the KX3 first came out the factory would only calibrate on one band and extrapolate from there, but then they released a new firmware+procedure allowing the user to custom calibrate on each band individually. Not sure what the standard factory calibration procedure is there days).
>
>

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Rick Tavan N6XI

Re: [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

The KXFL3 decision is pretty easy. If you plan to use the KX3 only with
simple antennas (random wires, loaded verticals, magnetic loops) and for
casual QSOs, you don't really need it. Unwanted signals will be weak enough
not to overload the DSP. If you plan to use the KX3, even sometimes, with
good antennas (big, high), especially in urban environments or
multi-transmitter sites like Field Day, or on crowded bands as in contests
or DX pileups, then you should have the filter to protect the DSP from very
strong, adjacent signals.

Another way of looking at it is, if the extra cost is not a hardship, get
the filter. Some day you'll be glad you did.

Either way, you're gonna love it!

73,

/Rick

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My wonderful wife said, "Go ahead and order a KX3. Happy Birthday!", so
> now I am working on options. How valuable is the KXFL3 dual-Passband
> Roofing Filter? Should I order it now, or see if I need it and order it
> later?
>
> 73, Bill, AE6JV
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> Bill Frantz |"Web security is like medicine - trying to do good for
> 408-356-8506 |an evolved body of kludges" - Mark Miller
> www.pwpconsult.com |
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

--
Rick Tavan N6XI
Truckee, CA
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Joshua Gould, K8WXA

Re: [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter

As I plan on adding a K3 down the line, It might not be a bad idea to get
it when I order instead of later...

Now I just need the money to order it...

Joshua Gould
K8WXA

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Rick Tavan N6XI <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The KXFL3 decision is pretty easy. If you plan to use the KX3 only with
> simple antennas (random wires, loaded verticals, magnetic loops) and for
> casual QSOs, you don't really need it. Unwanted signals will be weak enough
> not to overload the DSP. If you plan to use the KX3, even sometimes, with
> good antennas (big, high), especially in urban environments or
> multi-transmitter sites like Field Day, or on crowded bands as in contests
> or DX pileups, then you should have the filter to protect the DSP from very
> strong, adjacent signals.
>
> Another way of looking at it is, if the extra cost is not a hardship, get
> the filter. Some day you'll be glad you did.
>
> Either way, you're gonna love it!
>
> 73,
>
> /Rick
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > My wonderful wife said, "Go ahead and order a KX3. Happy Birthday!", so
> > now I am working on options. How valuable is the KXFL3 dual-Passband
> > Roofing Filter? Should I order it now, or see if I need it and order it
> > later?
> >
> > 73, Bill, AE6JV
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---------------
> > Bill Frantz |"Web security is like medicine - trying to do good
> for
> > 408-356-8506 |an evolved body of kludges" - Mark Miller
> > www.pwpconsult.com |
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Rick Tavan N6XI
> Truckee, CA
> ______________________________________________________________
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Bob-4

Re: [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter

In reply to this post by Rick Tavan N6XI

Ok, but there's still another way of looking at it: the KXFL3
filter only improves the narrow-spaced dynamic range by 8dB.
Look at the Sherwood Eng. table:

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

*without* the KXFL3 the KX3 DRNS was measured at 96dB. That's the same as
the K3 with the 400 Hz filter! If the KX3 must have the KXFL3 filter for
field day or DX pileups, then the K3 isn't good enough either - yet is
used a lot more than "sometimes" for exactly these types of operation!
What am I missing?

Bob NW8L

On Mon, 2 Jun 2014, Rick Tavan N6XI wrote:

> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 18:40:09 -0700
> From: Rick Tavan N6XI <[hidden email]>
> To: Bill Frantz <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter
>
> The KXFL3 decision is pretty easy. If you plan to use the KX3 only with
> simple antennas (random wires, loaded verticals, magnetic loops) and for
> casual QSOs, you don't really need it. Unwanted signals will be weak enough
> not to overload the DSP. If you plan to use the KX3, even sometimes, with
> good antennas (big, high), especially in urban environments or
> multi-transmitter sites like Field Day, or on crowded bands as in contests
> or DX pileups, then you should have the filter to protect the DSP from very
> strong, adjacent signals.
>
> Another way of looking at it is, if the extra cost is not a hardship, get
> the filter. Some day you'll be glad you did.
>
> Either way, you're gonna love it!
>
> 73,
>

Igor Sokolov-2

Re: [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter

In reply to this post by Rick Tavan N6XI

> This is one of the most clear, concise, and helpful responses I've seen on
> this list in over two years. I will work towards making my e-mails as
> informative as this one.

But not complete.
If you (like me and many others) would be affected by direct detection of
strong BC signals and will have to use 8Khz IF, then you do not need dual
passband roofing.

73, Igor UA9CDC
KX3 # 051

>
>> The KXFL3 decision is pretty easy. If you plan to use the KX3 only with
>> simple antennas (random wires, loaded verticals, magnetic loops) and for
>> casual QSOs, you don't really need it. Unwanted signals will be weak
>> enough
>> not to overload the DSP. If you plan to use the KX3, even sometimes, with
>> good antennas (big, high), especially in urban environments or
>> multi-transmitter sites like Field Day, or on crowded bands as in
>> contests
>> or DX pileups, then you should have the filter to protect the DSP from
>> very
>> strong, adjacent signals.
>>
>> Another way of looking at it is, if the extra cost is not a hardship, get
>> the filter. Some day you'll be glad you did.
>>
>> Either way, you're gonna love it!
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> /Rick
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My wonderful wife said, "Go ahead and order a KX3. Happy Birthday!", so
>>> now I am working on options. How valuable is the KXFL3 dual-Passband
>>> Roofing Filter? Should I order it now, or see if I need it and order it
>>> later?
>>>
>>> 73, Bill, AE6JV
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---------------
>>> Bill Frantz |"Web security is like medicine - trying to do good
>>> for
>>> 408-356-8506 |an evolved body of kludges" - Mark Miller
>>> www.pwpconsult.com |
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rick Tavan N6XI
>> Truckee, CA
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> --
> Walter Underwood
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: [KX3] KXFL3 dual-Passband Roofing Filter

In reply to this post by Joshua Gould, K8WXA

Joshua,

The K3 filter selection and the KX3 filter selection are two different
"animals".
Yes, both will help with AGC 'pumping' in the presence of strong signals
close to your operating frequency, but there is much more to the K3
filter selection than for the KX3. The KX3 provides the KXFL3 option
while the K3 has a variety of filter bandwidths that can be purchased.
Your operating situations will dictate which K3 filters might be needed,
but with the KX3 it is only a question of 'do you need the filter or
not' - there are 3 widths in the KX3 filter option.
The KX3 filter needs the calibration, the K3 filters do not need
'calibration', but require menu setup.

In other words, the two (K3 and KX3) filters are not comparable.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/2/2014 10:02 PM, Joshua Gould wrote:

> As I plan on adding a K3 down the line, It might not be a bad idea to get
> it when I order instead of later...
>
> Now I just need the money to order it...
>
> Joshua Gould
> K8WXA
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Rick Tavan N6XI <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> The KXFL3 decision is pretty easy. If you plan to use the KX3 only with
>> simple antennas (random wires, loaded verticals, magnetic loops) and for
>> casual QSOs, you don't really need it. Unwanted signals will be weak enough
>> not to overload the DSP. If you plan to use the KX3, even sometimes, with
>> good antennas (big, high), especially in urban environments or
>> multi-transmitter sites like Field Day, or on crowded bands as in contests
>> or DX pileups, then you should have the filter to protect the DSP from very
>> strong, adjacent signals.
>>
>> Another way of looking at it is, if the extra cost is not a hardship, get
>> the filter. Some day you'll be glad you did.
>>
>> Either way, you're gonna love it!
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> /Rick
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My wonderful wife said, "Go ahead and order a KX3. Happy Birthday!", so
>>> now I am working on options. How valuable is the KXFL3 dual-Passband
>>> Roofing Filter? Should I order it now, or see if I need it and order it
>>> later?
>>>
>>> 73, Bill, AE6JV
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---------------
>>> Bill Frantz |"Web security is like medicine - trying to do good
>> for
>>> 408-356-8506 |an evolved body of kludges" - Mark Miller
>>> www.pwpconsult.com |
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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>> --
>> Rick Tavan N6XI
>> Truckee, CA
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