KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
 
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I took the KX3 manual into the smallest room in the house for a few
minutes this morning, and was quite dismayed by what I read under the heading of "Grounding and ESD Protection." The manual says "A ground system using buried rods and/or a ground counterpoise (wires radiating out from the antenna) can reduce receive interference and help prevent electrical shock or damage due to electrostatic discharge (ESD)." A connection to earth DOES provide ESD protection and lightning protection, but it is NOT part of a solution to noise elimination, and does NOT make an antenna work better. Those wires extending out from the antenna are correctly described as radials or a counterpoise, but they are NOT a "ground," and they DO make the antenna work better by providing a return for antenna current, and for the EM field produced by the antenna. Indeed, the earth is really a big resistor, and any current that flows in it results in wasted transmitter power. Indeed, an important function of a good radial system is to SHIELD the antenna's EM field from the lossy earth! And those radials do NOT reduce receive noise. A couple of paragraphs later talks about "Pedestrian Mobile Ground" and says "if you plan to transmit, you'll need a trailing ground wire to serve as a minimal counterpoise and greatly improve your transmitted signal." Again, that wire IS a counterpoise, it IS part of the antenna, and it DOES improve your transmitted signal, but it is NOT a "ground" wire. Earlier on the page, under the heading of "Antennas," is the statement "If you use a short whip, vertical, or a single wire, a ground of some kind is necessary (described at right) to provide good transmit efficiency. Dipoles, inverted Vs, beams, quads, and similar antennas have an inherent counterpoise, making ground optional, though still desireable." Again, the word "ground" is the wrong one to describe radials or a counterpoise. And a connection to earth is desirable ONLY for lightning and ESD protection -- it does NOT make the antenna work better, nor does it reduce noise or RFI. These paragraphs demand a serious and immediate rewrite. Yes, we've seen serious errors in equipment manuals for as long as I've been a ham, but we expect more from Elecraft. It is yet another example of confusion and muddled thinking resulting from using the word "ground" when other words, like "radial" and "counterpoise" convey the correct meaning. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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> These paragraphs demand a serious and immediate rewrite.
There's no chance that you are being just a little pedantic, perhaps? 73, Mike / KK5F ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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Seriously pedantic!
Phil w7ox On 4/25/14, 1:53 PM, Mike Morrow wrote: >> These paragraphs demand a serious and immediate rewrite. > There's no chance that you are being just a little pedantic, perhaps? > > 73, > Mike / KK5F ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Mike Morrow-3
Jim IS correct though and it would be preferable to use the correct term
rather than those that are bandied around in conversations we hear on air often. Gary On 26 April 2014 06:53, Mike Morrow <[hidden email]> wrote: > > These paragraphs demand a serious and immediate rewrite. > > There's no chance that you are being just a little pedantic, perhaps? > > 73, > Mike / KK5F > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > -- *Gary - VK1ZZ, K3NHLSkype: Gary.VK1ZZhttp://www.qsl.net/vk1zz <http://www.qsl.net/vk1zz>Motorhome Portable* *"Grumpy's House"* *Elecraft K3KPA500FTKAT500FT* ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In the pursuit of truth, there is nothing wrong with being pedantic!
73 Stephen, G4SJP On 25 April 2014 22:01, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote: > Jim IS correct though and it would be preferable to use the correct term > rather than those that are bandied around in conversations we hear on air > often. > > Gary > > > On 26 April 2014 06:53, Mike Morrow <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > These paragraphs demand a serious and immediate rewrite. > > > > There's no chance that you are being just a little pedantic, perhaps? > > > > 73, > > Mike / KK5F > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to [hidden email] > > > > > > -- > > > > *Gary - VK1ZZ, K3NHLSkype: Gary.VK1ZZhttp://www.qsl.net/vk1zz > <http://www.qsl.net/vk1zz>Motorhome Portable* > *"Grumpy's House"* > > > *Elecraft K3KPA500FTKAT500FT* > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Gary Gregory-2
There is a difference between emailing Elecraft and voicing your concerns
privately vs going on the public mailing list and blasting them in front of their customer base. Just my 0.02. Frank KG6EYC On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:01 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote: > Jim IS correct though and it would be preferable to use the correct term > rather than those that are bandied around in conversations we hear on air > often. > > Gary ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Gary Gregory-2
We used the term "ground" a bit loosely in the manual; this seemed justified since we were aiming for pragmatic suggestions to help new hams, not scientific precision. But the text could be updated to be more technically accurate without loosing is information value, and Jim has offered to provide some input on word choice.
73, Wayne N6KR On Apr 25, 2014, at 2:01 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote: > Jim IS correct though and it would be preferable to use the correct term > rather than those that are bandied around in conversations we hear on air > often. > > Gary > > > On 26 April 2014 06:53, Mike Morrow <[hidden email]> wrote: > >>> These paragraphs demand a serious and immediate rewrite. >> >> There's no chance that you are being just a little pedantic, perhaps? >> >> 73, >> Mike / KK5F ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Frank Precissi
... but that's what the internet is for -- so you can tell 50,000 of
your closest friends about the slightest little problem. Of course, nobody notices when things go right. On 4/25/2014 2:05 PM, Frank Precissi wrote: > There is a difference between emailing Elecraft and voicing your concerns > privately vs going on the public mailing list and blasting them in front of > their customer base. > > Just my 0.02. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Gary Gregory-2
Since the vast majority of radio amateurs are not engineers is it
possible that it is preferable to use the terms that amateurs are familiar with in the way that they are familiar with, rather than the "correct" engineering terms? 73, Scott, N9AA On 4/25/14 5:01 PM, Gary Gregory wrote: > Jim IS correct though and it would be preferable to use the correct term > rather than those that are bandied around in conversations we hear on air > often. > > Gary > > > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Frank Precissi
That may be. But we're thick-skinned around here, and we revel in a good technical skirmish now and then. Jim is a worthy combatant.
Wayne On Apr 25, 2014, at 2:05 PM, Frank Precissi <[hidden email]> wrote: > There is a difference between emailing Elecraft and voicing your concerns > privately vs going on the public mailing list and blasting them in front of > their customer base. > > Just my 0.02. > > Frank > KG6EYC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Frank Precissi
Frank,
I don't think Jim's comments would be considered "blasting" by Elecraft. I believe they know Jim quite well and Jim has provided a lot of input and support over an extended time. I know Jim has taught me to look carefully at my own station installation and the lessons learned have been of benefit to me. I thought Jim's comments were timely but that is only my opinion and not shared by many perhaps. I believe Jim meant no disrespect to Elecraft. Gary On 26 April 2014 07:05, Frank Precissi <[hidden email]> wrote: > There is a difference between emailing Elecraft and voicing your concerns > privately vs going on the public mailing list and blasting them in front of > their customer base. > > Just my 0.02. > > Frank > KG6EYC > > On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:01 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Jim IS correct though and it would be preferable to use the correct term > > rather than those that are bandied around in conversations we hear on air > > often. > > > > Gary > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > -- *Gary - VK1ZZ, K3NHLSkype: Gary.VK1ZZhttp://www.qsl.net/vk1zz <http://www.qsl.net/vk1zz>Motorhome Portable* *"Grumpy's House"* *Elecraft K3KPA500FTKAT500FT* ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Mike Morrow-3
Jim is quite correct that a radial or a counterpoise should not be
referred to as 'ground'. To do so further confuses the use of "ground" by many hams. At least the English use words to differentiate between "earth" and "ground" (but there is still the lack of differentiation for counterpoises and radials). One needs to consider AC grounds, Lightning grounds, and RF Grounds separately. The only two that have a relationship with driven ground rods are the AC Ground and Lightning Ground. RF ground (and RF return path with respect to the antenna) is an entirely different consideration, and IMHO should not be called "ground" because it rarely is a "ground". There is further confusion about what a "ground" is. Driven stakes do not constitute an RF ground as one example, and a simple driven stake is not adequate for lightning protection even though it may provide some ESD protection. Yes, I have given this "rant" several times on this reflector and elsewhere. Do you have your driven ground rods connected to the utility entrance ground rod with a large conductor (#6 or larger)? If not, you may have created a safety hazard instead of any protection. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/25/2014 4:53 PM, Mike Morrow wrote: >> These paragraphs demand a serious and immediate rewrite. > There's no chance that you are being just a little pedantic, perhaps? > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Gary Gregory-2
After rereading Jim's comments I agree that using the term "ground" to
refer to any kind of radial or counterpoise isn't the best terminology. That usage might not demand an immediate and total rewrite of the manual, but it certainly isn't optimal. 73, Scott, N9AA On 4/25/14 5:01 PM, Gary Gregory wrote: > Jim IS correct though and it would be preferable to use the correct term > rather than those that are bandied around in conversations we hear on air > often. > > Gary > > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Scott Manthe-2
No, but many are, or aspire to be, Engineers and prefer correct engineering
terminology. This is so much more useful than the propagation of ancient " Ham Law" or god forbid, CB nonesense. I vote for pedantry... 73, F5VJC On 25 April 2014 23:12, Scott Manthe <[hidden email]> wrote: > Since the vast majority of radio amateurs are not engineers is it possible > that it is preferable to use the terms that amateurs are familiar with in > the way that they are familiar with, rather than the "correct" engineering > terms? > > 73, > Scott, N9AA > > > > On 4/25/14 5:01 PM, Gary Gregory wrote: > >> Jim IS correct though and it would be preferable to use the correct term >> rather than those that are bandied around in conversations we hear on air >> often. >> >> Gary >> >> >> >> >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Gary Gregory-2
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Frank, > > I don't think Jim's comments would be considered "blasting" by Elecraft. I > believe they know Jim quite well and Jim has provided a lot of input and > support over an extended time. > > I know Jim has taught me to look carefully at my own station installation > and the lessons learned have been of benefit to me. > > I thought Jim's comments were timely but that is only my opinion and not > shared by many perhaps. I believe Jim meant no disrespect to Elecraft. > > Gary My issue was not about the content, but about the delivery. If I had an issue about a vague or incorrect term for a product I wouldn't go on a public forum and call them to the mat on how wrong it is (ie: "These paragraphs demand a serious and immediate rewrite. Yes, we've seen serious errors in equipment manuals for as long as I've been a ham, but we expect more from Elecraft"). Frank ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Mike Morrow-3
ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)
On 4/25/2014 1:53 PM, Mike Morrow wrote: > There's no chance that you are being just a little pedantic, perhaps? REPLY: Pedantic is in the eye of the beholder. Jim is dead on. 73, Bill W6WRT ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Scott Manthe-2
ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)
On 4/25/2014 2:12 PM, Scott Manthe wrote: > Since the vast majority of radio amateurs are not engineers is it > possible that it is preferable to use the terms that amateurs are > familiar with in the way that they are familiar with, rather than the > "correct" engineering terms? > > 73, > Scott, N9AA REPLY: No. 73, Bill W6WRT ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Mike Morrow-3
On 4/25/2014 1:53 PM, Mike Morrow wrote:
> There's no chance that you are being just a little pedantic, perhaps? None at all -- it is exactly errors like this that have led to widespread misunderstandings about how these things work. And I posted it to the reflector hoping to cause readers to think about these misconceptions. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Scott Manthe-2
I don't think so. The continued use of incorrect terms will lead to
further confusion, and does not give the reader sufficient reason to grow in an amatuer's learning path. The "correct" terms are not just engineering terms, they exist for a reason - not all that is referred to as "ground" are equal and many do not refer to "mother earth". Amateurs are to "advance the state of the art", and it is implied in The Amateur' Code - "He keeps his station abreast of science". To me that does not mean speaking to the lowest common denominator when that common denominator is a source of confusion already. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/25/2014 5:12 PM, Scott Manthe wrote: > Since the vast majority of radio amateurs are not engineers is it > possible that it is preferable to use the terms that amateurs are > familiar with in the way that they are familiar with, rather than the > "correct" engineering terms? > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: KX3 Serious Errors in the Manual
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In reply to this post by Scott Manthe-2
While they're at it, I'd suggest getting rid of "antenna tuner" and its
"ATU" derivatives. "AMU" would go far in helping a new ham understand why he needs to push that button. As it is, many erroneously believe the antenna itself is being tuned. 73, Kent K9ZTV ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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