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KX3 Vehicle mount

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Wayne Michael

KX3 Vehicle mount

I have a 2012 Kia Sedona minivan.
I currently have a FTM-400 mounted using a seat mount.
Any ideas what mounts might be available to put a KX3 in the van along with the FTM-400?
Anyone have experience with the KX3 mobile in a car? Worth the effort?
Thanks,
Wayne AC9HP
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Don Wilhelm

Re: KX3 Vehicle mount

Wayne,

Take a look at
http://www.elecraft.com/manual/Rev-B1-1.6-KX3-Mobile-Owners.pdf.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/12/2016 8:24 AM, Wayne Michael wrote:
> I have a 2012 Kia Sedona minivan.
> I currently have a FTM-400 mounted using a seat mount.
> Any ideas what mounts might be available to put a KX3 in the van along with the FTM-400?
> Anyone have experience with the KX3 mobile in a car? Worth the effort?
> Thanks,
>

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briancom

Re: KX3 Vehicle mount

Don,

Perhaps you can clear up an issue.
The link below does not include fuses in the ground side.
I thought there were some very good reasons to do so.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 9/12/2016 12:50 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Wayne,
>
> Take a look at
> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/Rev-B1-1.6-KX3-Mobile-Owners.pdf.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 9/12/2016 8:24 AM, Wayne Michael wrote:
>> I have a 2012 Kia Sedona minivan.
>> I currently have a FTM-400 mounted using a seat mount.
>> Any ideas what mounts might be available to put a KX3 in the van along
>> with the FTM-400?
>> Anyone have experience with the KX3 mobile in a car? Worth the effort?
>> Thanks,
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Don Wilhelm

Re: KX3 Vehicle mount

Brian,

There is a lot of controversy over fuses in the ground lead.
The reason for them dates way back to days when the battery to engine
ground strap would commonly corrode or break. IMHO, that was more
common in automotive designs of the 1940s through 1980s vehicles when it
was a piece of uninsulated braid. I believe that connection is much
more reliable in modern vehicles and better protected from exposure to
the elements.

The reasoning behind putting a fuse in the negative lead is that it will
protect the radio from having current from the starter current be routed
over the radio's ground wire paths should the battery to engine ground
strap be faulty.

BUT, there are other paths to ground that can go through the radio even
if the fuse in the negative lead goes open - consider that the antenna
coax shield is also connected to the vehicle body and provides yet
another ground path.

IMHO, fusing the ground lead is not necessary in modern vehicle
installations. In fact I recall W8JI insisting that the radio ground be
obtained from the chassis of the vehicle instead of routing the ground
wire all the way to the battery. That solution eliminates the problem path.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/12/2016 9:03 AM, brian wrote:

> Don,
>
> Perhaps you can clear up an issue.
> The link below does not include fuses in the ground side.
> I thought there were some very good reasons to do so.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
> On 9/12/2016 12:50 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Wayne,
>>
>> Take a look at
>> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/Rev-B1-1.6-KX3-Mobile-Owners.pdf.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 9/12/2016 8:24 AM, Wayne Michael wrote:
>>> I have a 2012 Kia Sedona minivan.
>>> I currently have a FTM-400 mounted using a seat mount.
>>> Any ideas what mounts might be available to put a KX3 in the van along
>>> with the FTM-400?
>>> Anyone have experience with the KX3 mobile in a car? Worth the effort?
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
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Fred Moore-2

Re: KX3 Vehicle mount

In reply to this post by briancom

Brian, if you run the negative lead all the way to the battery (direct)
fuse the lead close to the battery. If you run the negative lead to
point that ends in a frame ground do not fuse the negative lead. This
does not conflict with standard automotive manufacture recommendations.

Also carefully read almost all manufactures installations it says run
the leads to the battery, and they provide two fuses on in the positive
and negative lead. I have not seen an installation manual in years that
didn't say directly to the battery..

Tom W8JI has some good explanations on they why's and how this came to be

http://www.w8ji.com/mobile_ground.htm

Regards.. Fred

On 9/12/16 9:03 AM, brian wrote:

--
Fred Moore
email: [hidden email]
[hidden email]
phone: 321-217-8699

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Matt Zilmer-3

Re: KX3 Vehicle mount

**This is also an excellent source of mobile installation knowledge:*
http://www.k0bg.com/
*

*Note that in the mobile guide, the chassis ground was the method a
Honda tech recommended. I could have run an additional 8 AWG and fused
it, but there was no reason to do so. Another hint is that the older
Motorola 100W FM transceivers (Syntor, Micor, etc.) use a single short
black lead with a large ring lug and no fuse, meant to be bolted to
chassis ground.
*

*73,*

*Matt W6NIA*

On 9/12/2016 6:43 AM, Fred Moore wrote:

> Brian, if you run the negative lead all the way to the battery (direct)
> fuse the lead close to the battery. If you run the negative lead to
> point that ends in a frame ground do not fuse the negative lead. This
> does not conflict with standard automotive manufacture recommendations.
>
> Also carefully read almost all manufactures installations it says run
> the leads to the battery, and they provide two fuses on in the positive
> and negative lead. I have not seen an installation manual in years that
> didn't say directly to the battery..
>
> Tom W8JI has some good explanations on they why's and how this came to be
>
> http://www.w8ji.com/mobile_ground.htm
>
> Regards.. Fred
>
>
> On 9/12/16 9:03 AM, brian wrote:
>> Don,
>>
>> Perhaps you can clear up an issue.
>> The link below does not include fuses in the ground side.
>> I thought there were some very good reasons to do so.
>>
>> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>>
>> On 9/12/2016 12:50 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>>> Wayne,
>>>
>>> Take a look at
>>> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/Rev-B1-1.6-KX3-Mobile-Owners.pdf.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>> On 9/12/2016 8:24 AM, Wayne Michael wrote:
>>>> I have a 2012 Kia Sedona minivan.
>>>> I currently have a FTM-400 mounted using a seat mount.
>>>> Any ideas what mounts might be available to put a KX3 in the van along
>>>> with the FTM-400?
>>>> Anyone have experience with the KX3 mobile in a car? Worth the effort?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>

--
Always store beer in a dark place. - R. Heinlein

Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
[Shiraz]

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Fred Moore-2

Re: KX3 Vehicle mount

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

I will add to the conversation with a direct story relating to radio
grounds, in this case it was a sail boat... At one time I spent much of
my life Surveying boats, another survey friend asked me to look at his
sailboat as he could not keep zinc's on the boat they would last about a
month.. An arriving throwing a silver anode over the side (in salt
water) showed about 1.75 volts between the water and his ground. So that
is why the zinc's were plating off of the boat.

All grounds on the boat lead to a grounding plate at the foot of the
mast (42 foot). As I was disconnecting each ground wire on the
grounding plate, suddenly the ground went away, and Lee said "the VHF
radio went dead", it was on as he was listening to the weather.

So what had happened.. This was a case where the radio was wired
directly to the battery, with fuses in both the positive and negative
leads. The fuse in the negative lead was indeed blown (unknown
reason). The ground path to the radio was up the coax shield to the
masthead antenna, this antenna was DC grounded flowed then down the mast
to the ground plate.

This connection raised the ground potential in reference to all other
grounds 1.75 volts.. and was the cause of all of the problems.
Properly grounding the radio ground to the ground plate permanently
resolved the issue..

This was a case of small currents (radio in receive), however should a
starter have been involved as Tom (W8JI) explains the currents would
have been great and could easily have caused a fire.

My point is where ground connections are made can have consequences..
Regards.. Fred

On 9/12/16 9:34 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Brian,
>
> There is a lot of controversy over fuses in the ground lead.
> The reason for them dates way back to days when the battery to engine
> ground strap would commonly corrode or break. IMHO, that was more
> common in automotive designs of the 1940s through 1980s vehicles when
> it was a piece of uninsulated braid. I believe that connection is
> much more reliable in modern vehicles and better protected from
> exposure to the elements.
>
> The reasoning behind putting a fuse in the negative lead is that it
> will protect the radio from having current from the starter current be
> routed over the radio's ground wire paths should the battery to engine
> ground strap be faulty.
>
> BUT, there are other paths to ground that can go through the radio
> even if the fuse in the negative lead goes open - consider that the
> antenna coax shield is also connected to the vehicle body and provides
> yet another ground path.
>
> IMHO, fusing the ground lead is not necessary in modern vehicle
> installations. In fact I recall W8JI insisting that the radio ground
> be obtained from the chassis of the vehicle instead of routing the
> ground wire all the way to the battery. That solution eliminates the
> problem path.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
>
> On 9/12/2016 9:03 AM, brian wrote:
>> Don,
>>
>> Perhaps you can clear up an issue.
>> The link below does not include fuses in the ground side.
>> I thought there were some very good reasons to do so.
>>
>> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>>
>> On 9/12/2016 12:50 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>>> Wayne,
>>>
>>> Take a look at
>>> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/Rev-B1-1.6-KX3-Mobile-Owners.pdf.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>> On 9/12/2016 8:24 AM, Wayne Michael wrote:
>>>> I have a 2012 Kia Sedona minivan.
>>>> I currently have a FTM-400 mounted using a seat mount.
>>>> Any ideas what mounts might be available to put a KX3 in the van along
>>>> with the FTM-400?
>>>> Anyone have experience with the KX3 mobile in a car? Worth the
>>>> effort?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Don Wilhelm

Re: KX3 Vehicle mount

This is the "sneak path" through a grounding system, and must always be
considered.
Although this thread is directed at mobile installations, it applies
equally to home station installations. If you have a driven ground rod
that is not connected with heavy wire to the utility entry ground rod,
similar situations exist and can be a safety hazard. Connect all
grounds together unless they are 100 feet or more apart - it is a
requirement of electrical codes.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/12/2016 10:01 AM, Fred Moore wrote:

> So what had happened.. This was a case where the radio was wired
> directly to the battery, with fuses in both the positive and negative
> leads. The fuse in the negative lead was indeed blown (unknown
> reason). The ground path to the radio was up the coax shield to the
> masthead antenna, this antenna was DC grounded flowed then down the mast
> to the ground plate.
>
> This connection raised the ground potential in reference to all other
> grounds 1.75 volts.. and was the cause of all of the problems.
> Properly grounding the radio ground to the ground plate permanently
> resolved the issue..
>
> This was a case of small currents (radio in receive), however should a
> starter have been involved as Tom (W8JI) explains the currents would
> have been great and could easily have caused a fire.
>
> My point is where ground connections are made can have consequences..
> Regards.. Fred
>
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: KX3 Vehicle mount

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer-3

On Mon,9/12/2016 6:58 AM, Matt Zilmer wrote:
> This is also an excellent source of mobile installation knowledge:*
> http://www.k0bg.com/
> *

And also some misinformation.

73, Jim K9YC

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Tom Francis

Re: KX3 Vehicle mount

In reply to this post by Wayne Michael

The simplest and easier mount that actually works and allows for positioning
depending on what you are planning, check this out.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CRQUKQ4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have one for my KX3 and KX2. I'd post a picture, but don't think that
is allowed on this
forum.

I must admit, when I thought of it, I didn't think it would work, but it
did over 10,000 miles this
summer on trips.

Tom, W1TEF

On 9/12/2016 8:24 AM, Wayne Michael wrote:

> I have a 2012 Kia Sedona minivan.
> I currently have a FTM-400 mounted using a seat mount.
> Any ideas what mounts might be available to put a KX3 in the van along with the FTM-400?
> Anyone have experience with the KX3 mobile in a car? Worth the effort?
> Thanks,
> Wayne AC9HP
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>